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Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, Prime Minister Time, Good morning, Good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: How are you today? Very well? Indeed, I know what

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Speaker 1: the great deal of interest you started yesterday's little cabinet

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Speaker 1: post cabinet talk with the current account, of course, which

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Speaker 1: came exactly no questions. And then yesterday two councils got

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Speaker 1: downgraded by S and P. Why don't we seem to

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Speaker 1: take the plight we're in more seriously than we do.

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Speaker 2: Well we should be And that's what I'm focused on.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you we've got a lot of potential in

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Speaker 2: the joint, but we've got to realize it. And at

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Speaker 2: the moment, the last lot Frankly drove the car into

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Speaker 2: the ditch and we've got to get out. And that's

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Speaker 2: what we're doing. And we're cleaning up the finances first

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Speaker 2: and foremost, but then we're getting onto the growth plan

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Speaker 2: because the only way yourself had a recession and Frankly

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Speaker 2: set the future up from New Zealand is actually growth.

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Speaker 2: And that means the education work that we're doing. It

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Speaker 2: means science technology, it means getting rid of red tape,

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Speaker 2: it means Kenny infrastructure in place. But it's those international

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Speaker 2: connections and that's why I opened talking about the trip

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Speaker 2: I had to Malaysia and Career. We hadn't had a

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Speaker 2: prime minister there since twenty fifteen, and out by showing up. Actually,

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Speaker 2: a lot of these countries actually want to do business

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Speaker 2: with New Zealand. They actually want to invest in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: but no one's been talking to them. So as a result,

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Speaker 2: you know, we had some really good company you know,

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Speaker 2: to never deals with their counterparts over there. But importantly,

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Speaker 2: you know, both Malaysia and Career open to investing in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand on things like public infrastructure and partnering with

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Speaker 2: private companies which gives us the capital, the knowledge transfer,

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Speaker 2: the things to keep killings moving forward, and more economics.

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Speaker 2: So we will see at a place then we can

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Speaker 2: afford more cancer drugs exactly.

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Speaker 1: So we will see tangibles out of your trip.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was interesting. Like Malaysia again, pros hadn't

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Speaker 2: been there since twenty fifteen. I think Key was the

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Speaker 2: last one, and we agreed to review our FTA. We

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Speaker 2: have a major problem in Malaysia getting red meat into Malaysia,

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Speaker 2: and I said to the Prime Minister, look, we've got

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Speaker 2: to get this sorted in two months when I see

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Speaker 2: you at the end of the year. Let's make sure

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Speaker 2: we've got that done so we can get our red

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Speaker 2: meats into into the market. Here in Malaysia, we see

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Speaker 2: and allow meat to Indonesia, to the Middle East. I's

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Speaker 2: no reason I can't do it here. But you've got

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Speaker 2: problems on your end with the bureaucracy. Let's get that

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Speaker 2: sorted and President you in Korea immediately we lifted exports

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Speaker 2: around blueberries from New Zealand and also there was five

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Speaker 2: different types of dairy products we wanted to get into Korea.

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Speaker 2: So we were able to do that. And as I said,

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Speaker 2: we've agreed to up next year to upgrade our relationship

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Speaker 2: with comprehensive strategic partnership.

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Speaker 1: So you know what was.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, like is every country I go to, I spend

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Speaker 2: an hour or two hours having a lunch with big investors.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just wealthy individuals with a couple of

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Speaker 2: hundred million dollars. It's actually the funds that are worth

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Speaker 2: billions of dollars. So I sit in Korea and one

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Speaker 2: of their five pension funds that I spoke to over

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Speaker 2: one of these dinners has two hundred and fifty billion

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Speaker 2: uves dollars to invest and they would love to invest

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Speaker 2: in a four lane highway from Workland to fre but

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Speaker 2: they just don't know about it. And I'm open to

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Speaker 2: taking their money so we can get the infrastructure bealt

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Speaker 2: quicker and they want to give us money, but we've

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Speaker 2: now got to do these connections that actually gets the

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Speaker 2: money moving to New Zealand. So you know, that's very

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Speaker 2: much my takeaway messages that I had consistently with us

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Speaker 2: in Singapore, Japan. You know, big investor wanting to invest

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand is part of attracting investment. And the

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Speaker 2: reason is we are amongst the worst in the OECD

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Speaker 2: now attracting capital to New Zealand. And that's why fast

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Speaker 2: track matters. That's why funding and financing through this national

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Speaker 2: infrastructure as the matters. That's why thirty year pipeline of

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Speaker 2: proper defined projects, not sort of posted Night's ideas, kind

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Speaker 2: of matters a right.

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Speaker 1: So speaking of which, there's quite a bit of reportage

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Speaker 1: of this going on in Australia. It's got to do

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Speaker 1: with Orchest. But Jake Sullivan, who's out of the White House,

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Speaker 1: you're looking to deal with Australia at the moment. The

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Speaker 1: US is looking to deal with Australia at the moment

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Speaker 1: to counteract Chinese dominance in this particular part of the world,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of trade ideas. Are you part of that

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Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form that discussion at the

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Speaker 1: moment specifically or not not specifically? But were you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about?

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Speaker 2: Or is this just all to do?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: I read the Jack Sullivan articles from the US yesterday

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Speaker 2: and what I just say is, look, you know, we're,

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Speaker 2: as you know, exploring orcst Pillar two and will continue

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Speaker 2: to do that. We are with respect to the US

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Speaker 2: piled up with iPad, which is their sort of economic

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Speaker 2: sort of activity around security, more around trade, around supply chains,

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Speaker 2: technology transfers. All of those things were in those conversations.

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Speaker 2: And obviously when I was in DC, I met with

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Speaker 2: a number of officials and even again a perfect I met

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Speaker 2: up with Kurt Campbell, who is from the State Department

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Speaker 2: that is driving Asia Pacific and Indo Pacific strategies as well.

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Speaker 2: So look, I mean what was interesting, like is I

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Speaker 2: went out to the DMZ, which is the border with

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Speaker 2: North Korea South Korea, and you know that war never

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Speaker 2: came to an end. It's just a permanent ceasefire for

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Speaker 2: the last seventy years as the balloons are going up

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Speaker 2: and the flying trash over us. But yesually we've got

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Speaker 2: New Zealand personnel which I've tripled into the peninsula because

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Speaker 2: what strikes you is man because the piece has been

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Speaker 2: achieved through a ceasefire a bit difficult at times, that

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Speaker 2: has enabled huge prosperity for South Korea to become the

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Speaker 2: fourteenth largest economy in the world. Our six biggest trading

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Speaker 2: partner that has created wealth and opportunity for New Zealand

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Speaker 2: is here at home. So that's why I keep saying

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Speaker 2: security is very inextricably linked to economic prosperity, and the

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Speaker 2: two things go together, you know. And also on that Pinancia,

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Speaker 2: what was interesting is North Korea is sending ammunition to

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Speaker 2: Russia to be used in Ukraine, and so we've doubled

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Speaker 2: our efforts on surveillance to make sure you in sanctions

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Speaker 2: are being monitored, working with ten other countries up there

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Speaker 2: as well. So you know, that's why security. If you

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Speaker 2: don't have security, as we've seen in Ukraine, yep, that

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Speaker 2: causes economic pain and suffering Western Europe around the developed

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Speaker 2: world with green prices. So these two things go together,

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Speaker 2: and that's what I'm trying to get people to understand.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so there seems to be considered pushed by the

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Speaker 1: Biden White House to do something before jan twenty and

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Speaker 1: their administration ends. Is it possible between now and then,

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Speaker 1: which is not far away given we're in the middle

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Speaker 1: of September, but we will see something with Orcas two

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Speaker 1: and this country.

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Speaker 2: No. No, I think I think the conversations that officials

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Speaker 2: have been having are pretty you know that they're still

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Speaker 2: pretty unclear the three countries. I think about what the

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Speaker 2: two is actually about. I think that's what Jake Sullivan

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Speaker 2: was a leading to and I think we'll continue to

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Speaker 2: make progress, but we can only move at the pace

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Speaker 2: that you know they want to engage with they're able

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Speaker 2: to engage as well.

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Speaker 1: That thing yesterday where you were back and forward about

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Speaker 1: stuff you talk about in the cabinet and don't and

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Speaker 1: things you might have seen or might not have seen.

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Speaker 1: Do you regret at any point allowing Seymour to be

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Speaker 1: part of the coalition in terms of this Treaty Principles bill,

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Speaker 1: which for you anyway seems almost now embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: Well it's not. I'm actually quite relaxed and calm to

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Speaker 2: about it. I mean I've been consistent before the election

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Speaker 2: and since the coalition was put together. I sort of

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Speaker 2: have a different view on it, which is, look, Manuehellan

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Speaker 2: is rightly or wrong? They chose MMP. They've done it

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Speaker 2: several times. That's the electoral system were dealt with. Right.

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Speaker 2: That's the same as Western Europe. Now, whether I'm in Germany,

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Speaker 2: whether I'm in Nevlands, at the same deal they put

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Speaker 2: four or five six party coalitions together in Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 2: Around in Western Europe we've put a three party coalition together.

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Speaker 2: We're united on the core that's the economics, after the

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Speaker 2: law and all the stuff, the public services things. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we have differences on an issue like this and we

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Speaker 2: find a compromise. That's what we're expected to do in

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Speaker 2: an MP.

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Speaker 1: About it. But I look at what you went through yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Just look at what you went through yesterday. That's all

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Speaker 1: we seem to be able to be talking about in

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Speaker 1: this country. Well, I'm trying to raise this morning is

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Speaker 1: some big picture stuff that's actually quite important. But you're

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Speaker 1: bogged down and going what did David saying do you

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Speaker 1: see this and so that that stuff you could have

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Speaker 1: avoided if you didn't get bogged down in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying not to get bogged down. I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: clear about just restating our position. It gets pretty tiring

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Speaker 2: because you know, you just saying the same thing over

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Speaker 2: and over again because the position is pretty clear. But

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Speaker 2: to be honest, I'm focused on how do I rebuild

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Speaker 2: the economy, get it growing, how do I fix law

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Speaker 2: and order, whether it and how to do health and

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Speaker 2: education And those are things, frankly, whether you're Maori or

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Speaker 2: non Maori, that you actually want fixed and sorted in

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Speaker 2: this country. So you know, look, I appreciate the press

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Speaker 2: gallery here and Wellington. You can obsess on that, and

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Speaker 2: others will have different views on it across the country

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Speaker 2: and they're entitled to do so to liberal democracy. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I know what what I stand for in

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Speaker 2: that position, and we've got a compromise. David and act

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Speaker 2: didn't get what they wanted. I didn't get what I wanted.

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Speaker 2: But when I an m MP, it's a coalition. The

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Speaker 2: positions what it is people want to put boys to

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Speaker 2: that I'm pretty clear about it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of Mari, have you got some sort of

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Speaker 1: is there some sort of conspiracy or subterfuge going on

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Speaker 1: in the public service in this country? So the Hawk's

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Speaker 1: Bay Health run a program for Maor youth and you're

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Speaker 1: at the front of the queue with you Mara Ritti

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Speaker 1: intervenes yesterday and says, that's not the way we do it.

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Speaker 1: Stop it now, you go. I'm changing the rules on

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Speaker 1: Maori seats and Maurray wards at local levels. First thing

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Speaker 1: that is, oh, we're going to ring a lawyer. Is

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Speaker 1: there something going on within the public service of this

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Speaker 1: country that is actively fighting against what you were trying

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Speaker 1: to do? Well?

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Speaker 2: I mean they've had to adjust to a new government

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Speaker 2: that's got very clear direction and you know, as you know,

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Speaker 2: I've got targets, I've got you know, got quarterly action plans,

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Speaker 2: We've got six monthly reviews for ministers. We're running things

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Speaker 2: very differently right and so it is a change. But

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Speaker 2: I'd have to say the public service is increasingly getting

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Speaker 2: on board with what we're trying to do. My conversations

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Speaker 2: with the ces and the ministers when they come into

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Speaker 2: my office regularly to talk about you know, tonight would

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Speaker 2: be health. I got a monitoring, I've less de Levy

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Speaker 2: in the room, I have Shane Retcy in the room,

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Speaker 2: Doocy others and we talk about those issues. So look,

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Speaker 2: I think they are getting on board. But that was

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Speaker 2: particularly sort of felt like quite a rogue decision, which

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Speaker 2: was in Shane really good on and we gone immediately

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Speaker 2: spoke to the Health Musialan officials and enough confirment. They've

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Speaker 2: substately changed that policy. But you know, we believe that

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Speaker 2: your target healthcare based on needs, not ethnicity, and so

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Speaker 2: you know that's a fundamental principle and that's the way

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Speaker 2: it should be. So yeah, I'm not sure why they

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Speaker 2: had that criteria or had they changed their criteria free GPS.

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Speaker 1: My question the law simple, you run the country like

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Speaker 1: it or not. You run the country. Is somebody there

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Speaker 1: going that stun you? Well, I don't know. Well, you

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Speaker 1: don't run health policy. It's very clear.

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Speaker 2: And yet they are correct, and that's why we make

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Speaker 2: it very clear. Made it clear, I thought in opposition

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Speaker 2: and in the election campaign, and we've made it clear

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Speaker 2: since we've come to government and where it doesn't happen.

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Speaker 2: Good to see Shane ready stepping up and sorting it

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Speaker 2: out very quickly within a day. But look, the bottom

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Speaker 2: line is, Mike, you know, I've got to get the

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Speaker 2: you've got to get the country out of the ditch.

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Speaker 2: We've got to get into first and second gear, into

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Speaker 2: third and fourth and moving forward. And honestly, I'm focused on,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, some other things, which is economy, law

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Speaker 2: and order to health education, you know, So we'll do

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Speaker 2: that to the best term.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate your time, Prime Minister Chrystopher Luxum. For

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Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news

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Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.