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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks atb.

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Speaker 2: You know it is remarkable. So twenty five years ago,

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Speaker 2: David Gray was renowned for just how famous he wasn't

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Speaker 2: He had a bit of a cult following at the time.

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Speaker 2: He had listeners who were hooked on his sincerity on

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Speaker 2: his plane spokenness. But he hadn't quite broken into the

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Speaker 2: mainstream with his music. And then came his career defining,

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Speaker 2: career making album, White Ladder. It was recorded at his

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Speaker 2: home and it went on to become one of the

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Speaker 2: best selling albums of this century so far. David's lasting

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Speaker 2: success has led to the release of his thirteenth album,

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Speaker 2: Dear Life. If you were listening this time last week

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Speaker 2: on News Talks, he'd be You'd know that Estella Music

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Speaker 2: reviewer gave it a glowing review, and David has just

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Speaker 2: launched it. Now he's headed out on the road and

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Speaker 2: he joins us this morning. David Gray Kelder, Good morning

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Speaker 2: and welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: You're just about to begin your tours. So you're in

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Speaker 2: Boston at the moment, gearing up for a wee while

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Speaker 2: on the road.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be down the rapid style touring

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Speaker 3: for the next few months. I think we've got fifty

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Speaker 3: shows between now and the beginning of May, so it's

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Speaker 3: going to be for a bunch of old farts like us.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be a bit of a challenge, but

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Speaker 3: we're up, We're ready.

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Speaker 2: Fifty shows is no small total or achievement. How do

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Speaker 2: you approach a kind of workload like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, first of all, by just trying to condition myself,

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Speaker 3: so by playing a lot and practicing a lot ahead

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Speaker 3: of the actual rehearsals so that I'm in good condition vocally,

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Speaker 3: because it's going to be very demanding. When you step

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Speaker 3: on the stage, it's very different than when you rehearse.

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Speaker 3: When I rehearse, I give it everything, but when I

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Speaker 3: go on the stage, I give you everything plus a

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Speaker 3: bit more. So it takes a lot out of your voice.

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Speaker 3: The voice is the most vulnerable part of the whole equation.

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Speaker 3: So that's the part that I wish I could put

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Speaker 3: it in a flight case and ship it from show

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Speaker 3: to show, but it doesn't work that way. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to talk to all these lunatics that I hang around

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Speaker 3: with the whole time, so it's constantly being used, So yes,

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Speaker 3: it puts a lot of stress on the voice, which

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Speaker 3: is just a beam of energy. And obviously this is

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Speaker 3: an exhaustion cycle. We're just going to be traveling every

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Speaker 3: night and getting up in a different place, sound checking,

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Speaker 3: gig travel, so and there'll be lots of adrenaline thrown

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Speaker 3: in and a few glasses of champagne, I dare say,

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Speaker 3: and god knows what else. So it'll be all the

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Speaker 3: bells and whistles. It's going to be amazing. I think

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Speaker 3: it's the most sort of compact and intense period of

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Speaker 3: touring I've done for quite a while. So yeah, and

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Speaker 3: that's just the way it's work this time. But we're

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Speaker 3: all crazy for it with the tickets have gone so well,

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Speaker 3: that's what really sort of sets up your anticipation.

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Speaker 2: Well, I speak on behalf of our audience and confirm

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Speaker 2: that people are just delighted to have you back and

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Speaker 2: delighted with your life. So can you talk to us

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Speaker 2: a little bit about the process behind this album, because

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Speaker 2: five years right from Go to War, if you include

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Speaker 2: the mastering, this was quite a process, and over a

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Speaker 2: particularly tumultuous time in the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I did put out a scaling during

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Speaker 3: Lockdown in twenty one, so it's a few years since

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Speaker 3: that record. But obviously I had all the obligations of

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Speaker 3: the touring that was frozen by the COVID pandemic that

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Speaker 3: I had to then pick up after. So twenty two

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Speaker 3: and twenty three had quite a few touring commitments. So

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Speaker 3: it's slowed the making of this record down, which had

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Speaker 3: begun just before COVID. But I think perhaps the songwriting

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Speaker 3: process was enriched by what happened in so much as

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm getting older, so mortalities are kind of

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Speaker 3: theme anyway. It always is with me really ever since

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Speaker 3: my dad died. I think I saw something. I was

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Speaker 3: up close and watched him die, and that changes your

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Speaker 3: perspective on things, just like watching one of your children

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Speaker 3: being born. It's a privilege to be there. And obviously

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Speaker 3: when you see the sort of parentheses that hold our

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Speaker 3: fragile little lives, you reassess everything. And I think you know,

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Speaker 3: in our Western culture, death is not an acknowledged part

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Speaker 3: of things. In fact, everyone's straining every sinew and pumping

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Speaker 3: every lip with something to make them look younger, so

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Speaker 3: they're all trying to sort of shrug off the aging process,

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Speaker 3: but COVID slowed us down. It took the constellation of

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Speaker 3: constant activity, and it took the horizon away. We were

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Speaker 3: just in a moment that was very elongated. And also

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Speaker 3: we're just studying death graphs all the time, so it

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Speaker 3: was a sort of again. It was a terrible time

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Speaker 3: in so many ways for so many people, but it

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Speaker 3: was a huge blessing in other ways if you were

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Speaker 3: lucky enough not to lose anyone or have to go

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Speaker 3: through the torment of knowing someone was suffering and you

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Speaker 3: couldn't be there. But this all I ambiently fed in,

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Speaker 3: I think to probably my natural inclinations. My life has

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Speaker 3: been a bit turbulent for a while, with various big

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Speaker 3: relationships and changes that have gone kind of by the by,

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Speaker 3: as it were, and so perhaps there was more grist

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Speaker 3: to the mill as well. But I don't know why.

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Speaker 3: Certain albums come out with a greater sense of themselves,

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Speaker 3: a great sense of purpose. I'm always making things. It's

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Speaker 3: often quite interior or slightly oblique, but these songs are very,

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Speaker 3: very direct, And what I say about them is they

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Speaker 3: were born standing up. They're sort of they were ready

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Speaker 3: to go, and they're very melodic, and they're straight to

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Speaker 3: camera that they're not cutting any strange angles away, they're

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Speaker 3: not hiding themselves. They're very and that's not to say

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Speaker 3: that they don't play games within that that that fixed gaze.

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Speaker 3: They there's a lot of humor, there's a lot of delicacy,

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Speaker 3: I think, but it was just such a pleasure to write.

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Speaker 3: I mean, first and foremost, I'm a lyric writer. That's

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Speaker 3: my obsession, and like Fak Sinatra said, for me, the

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Speaker 3: music props up the lyrics. So you know, if there's

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Speaker 3: been a trend in my writing since I started, it's

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Speaker 3: probably been to simplify. But with this record, the lymings,

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Speaker 3: the rhyming schemes just became more elaborate, the language was

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Speaker 3: more ornate, and just the beautiful magic of words, the

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Speaker 3: substance of words. It's it's a music in itself, and

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Speaker 3: it lent such a joyous energy to the process of making.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't belie what the emotion is under some of

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Speaker 3: the songs, but the pleasure of the rhyming scheme helps

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Speaker 3: to sort of create the Trojan horse effect where it

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Speaker 3: almost like hypnotizes you as the per performer and as

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Speaker 3: the listener. And first of all, your dark, your ears,

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Speaker 3: and your mind are moving with the rhythm and the words,

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Speaker 3: and then the meaning comes along afterwards. So it's sort

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Speaker 3: of that's sort of my take on the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: It has a kind of electronic y kind of aspect

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Speaker 3: to this album, which was going to be there from

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Speaker 3: the beginning. So when we started in twenty nineteen, I

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Speaker 3: bought these little drum machines and I was jamming in

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Speaker 3: sort of real time over the drum machines while my

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Speaker 3: producer was sort of messing with the sounds, and I said,

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Speaker 3: this is the way I want to go. I want

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Speaker 3: it to be like a sort of hybrid form, a

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Speaker 3: bit like White Ladder in that it's me sort of

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Speaker 3: being very free lyrically and expressive with my guitar over

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Speaker 3: the top of something that's very rooted and stuck in

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Speaker 3: this thing, but with these crazy distorted sounds. So songs

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Speaker 3: like Acceptance and more than anything, these were the first

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Speaker 3: ones that came out. But yeah, the song burst, the

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Speaker 3: star burst of songwriting that happened at the very end

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Speaker 3: of COVID was when most of the songs were written.

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Speaker 3: And as I say, that process seemed to have been

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Speaker 3: enriched by a period of not doing it. I let

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Speaker 3: the field go fallow, and it took a bit of

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Speaker 3: courage to stop because my gut reaction to the lockdown

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Speaker 3: was I'm going to go down into my studio and

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Speaker 3: make an album on my own. Lots of creatives I

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Speaker 3: made of this stupid era really of thinking I just

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Speaker 3: sort of service as normal. But it ultimately the pressure

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Speaker 3: of the weirdness of the situation told upon me, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, why am I down here getting stressed about

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing, like trying to press record and run

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Speaker 3: in and put my guitar on and play upstairs. My

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Speaker 3: family is sitting there. I've been saying for the last

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Speaker 3: twenty years. I was going to spend some time with them. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it seems like this is an opportunity to address the

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Speaker 3: elephant in the room. I love you, guys. I kind

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Speaker 3: of came back. It was like a row. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: quite rocky, but I came up the stairs with a

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Speaker 3: tower on my neck and said that, okay, guys, I'm back,

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Speaker 3: and they just all completely ignored me and carried on

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Speaker 3: watching TV.

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Speaker 2: You listen to news songs TV and joined the great

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Speaker 2: pleasure of speaking with David Gray about his latest album

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Speaker 2: Dear Life. You see and you've seen before that you

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Speaker 2: see yourself as a lyricist first. Is there a literal

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Speaker 2: part of the process. Do you write lyrics before you

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Speaker 2: write music?

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Speaker 3: No, And I think when I started, I sort of

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Speaker 3: wrote songs when the mood took me, and it was

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Speaker 3: always a chord sequence which I would respond to melodically

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Speaker 3: and then try and fit a lyric to the melody.

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Speaker 3: And that's sort of what my process was as I've

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Speaker 3: gone on, and you know, the sort of the threat

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Speaker 3: of writer's block, which is really when you disentangle it,

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Speaker 3: a fear of failure. I used all kinds of means

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Speaker 3: to get around my self doubt, and one of them

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Speaker 3: was to work backwards into music from lyrics, which I

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Speaker 3: have done occasionally in my career, but only very rarely.

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Speaker 3: So it's become a real asset because what it does

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Speaker 3: is it disables temporarily disables my sense of taste, melodic taste.

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Speaker 3: And I don't really know whether what I'm doing is

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Speaker 3: of any interest whatsoever. All I know is I'm doing

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Speaker 3: it like a child in a sandpit. I'm sort of

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Speaker 3: making things. So now I kind of any which way

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Speaker 3: really to create a song, and I don't have. My

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Speaker 3: go to is still to do what I've always done.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing that's changed is that I don't

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Speaker 3: have the luxury of just making music when I feel

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Speaker 3: like it. I have to turn up and do it

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Speaker 3: as a job. And that means you have some crap days,

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Speaker 3: lots of okay days, and then the odd day when

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Speaker 3: all the turning up pays off and a song comes

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Speaker 3: out of the scar and you know the odd thing,

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Speaker 3: it feels like it's been in a gestation phase. Real

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Speaker 3: song when it happens, when it really happens, I mean

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Speaker 3: when what people call inspiration, but when that what is

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Speaker 3: temple subjectivity a total the barrier that's normally there between

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Speaker 3: making and not making disappears and suddenly you're it's all

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Speaker 3: just graspable for a moment, it all goes that, the

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Speaker 3: fences come down. You can grab anything from anywhere. It's

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Speaker 3: like well, you know looting, it's like sort of creative looting.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's no police. You can grab anything in

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Speaker 3: the department store, so like images this stuff and dredge

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Speaker 3: up from anywhere and suddenly it's just so as you

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Speaker 3: have this incredible subjectivity and this unbridled sort of space

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Speaker 3: that you're suddenly in. You know it's happening because at

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Speaker 3: the same time, a sort of drone goes up in

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Speaker 3: your mind and you have this sort of overview of

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Speaker 3: what you're doing. You make very good editorial decisions. So anyway,

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Speaker 3: this is what people call inspiration. But it doesn't just

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Speaker 3: happen all the time. You have to make it happen

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Speaker 3: if you like. And it's still a very religious experience.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a sort of a staunch non believer, and

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Speaker 3: yet I pledge my life to something as intangible as music,

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Speaker 3: so I must have a faith of some kind. So

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Speaker 3: that's what happens. So those are the ways that's changed.

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Speaker 3: Songwriting has changed for me. Essentially, it's the same process,

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Speaker 3: and I'm still barking up the same tree. Essentially, my

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Speaker 3: lyrics are always picking away at the same things.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned you're a staunch non believer. I wondered how

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Speaker 2: being confronted with unavoidable mortality through this process had maybe

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Speaker 2: had affected the way you kind of think about things

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Speaker 2: like that. It maybe had affected any sense of spirituality

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Speaker 2: you may have thought didn't exist.

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Speaker 3: I think you can be spiritual, I guess I would.

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Speaker 3: I would say that we're born with a religious instinct.

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Speaker 3: I don't think of religion as something that we created

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Speaker 3: or that was given to us by Jesus or some

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Speaker 3: other prophet that came from somewhere God. Apparently, I see

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Speaker 3: that we were born with a sense of awe and

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Speaker 3: a sense of mystery, And how could we not be

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Speaker 3: because we're born into this improbable situation. So what poetry

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Speaker 3: touches on the garment of this mystery is it's very

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Speaker 3: real and very live in all of us, maybe less

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Speaker 3: live in some than others. I'm thinking of you prominent

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Speaker 3: prominent world politicians and businessmen as I say that, but

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Speaker 3: I refuse to mention them by name. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: it's something that's there. So I have a very strong

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Speaker 3: leaning towards I guess what faith is, which is that

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Speaker 3: life is a sort of well spring of energy to

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Speaker 3: me on a sort of an atomic level. Maybe I've

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Speaker 3: just been lucky in life's been kind to me. It

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Speaker 3: certainly has, you know. It's it's just it renews me

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Speaker 3: the world, the natural world in particular, but the world

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Speaker 3: of music too. This making with my friends, this communal

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Speaker 3: relationship that we have in being the flesh of the

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Speaker 3: music and then sharing that. I mean, this is all

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Speaker 3: so sounding like a religious language, but that's what takes

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Speaker 3: takes places. It's a it's a hard thing to put

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Speaker 3: your finger on. So I don't need organized religion. I

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Speaker 3: see that as being something that's associated with the creation

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Speaker 3: of communities, larger communities, the urban Suddenly it was very

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Speaker 3: important to have a set of morals and to start

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Speaker 3: simplifying God, because otherwise it was just a mess. I

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Speaker 3: think it's really like urban planning. That's what I sort

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Speaker 3: of see religion as a sort of a spiritual level.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I've got all those instincts, I just

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Speaker 3: can't find a way into the organized stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a pagan.

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Speaker 2: Well, like you say that, the distinction between spirituality and

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Speaker 2: religiosity is also an important one, and perhaps leaning into

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Speaker 2: the intangible there has helped you create the work you create,

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Speaker 2: which you know is a is a great benefit to us. All.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this is very heavy conversation Saturday morning.

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Speaker 3: So first I'm going to apologize to your listeners. But

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Speaker 3: radio isn't like this all the time.

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Speaker 2: They know, they know how shallow I am. Don't worry. Hey,

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Speaker 2: I know we've got to we have to do our

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Speaker 2: best to protect your voice. So one final question, and

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Speaker 2: not wanting to add to your to your already impressive

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Speaker 2: touring schedule, but I know that there are no antipathy

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Speaker 2: and dates yet. Could we expect perhaps a trip down

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Speaker 2: Under sometime soon.

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Speaker 3: And there'd be anticipating in the Antipodes. See, I can't

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Speaker 3: help it. The alliteration was there. We're looking at it all,

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Speaker 3: so we're trying to work it out. I got to

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Speaker 3: balance my life like a little bit. I'm not very

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Speaker 3: good at saying no, So if the world is saying yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm not very good at saying no. But my wife's

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Speaker 3: got other ideas, so I'm not going to blame her.

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Speaker 3: But we're looking at that later in the year. It's

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Speaker 3: not a definite thing yet and it's not completely taken shape,

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Speaker 3: so it may happen. I thought that's the best I

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Speaker 3: can say. Well, if it doesn't happen, it won't be

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Speaker 3: too long before it does. I can guarantee you there.

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Speaker 2: Well, that is so good to hear. David. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time. It is such

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Speaker 2: a pleasure to speak with you. David's album Dear Life

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Speaker 2: is out now available and good music stores of course,

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Speaker 2: and on your usual streaming services, and we will have

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Speaker 2: all the details at Newstorks INB dot co dot indeed

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Speaker 2: for

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Speaker 1: More from Saturday morning with listen live to news Talks

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Speaker 1: at B from nine am Saturday, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio