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Speaker 1: Let's get our first response to the budget. We have

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Speaker 1: Labor leader Chris Hopkins and studio with me. Hey, how

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Speaker 1: are you going?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 3: Look it.

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Speaker 2: Make a note of the date and time. There are

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Speaker 2: a couple of things that you just said that I

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Speaker 2: agreed with here that okay, I don't think that's ever

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Speaker 2: happened before. I think it was underwhelming. If you're actually

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Speaker 2: wanting a long term vision for the future of the country,

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Speaker 2: there's no question on that. You know, parks a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of the big challenges the country faces further into

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Speaker 2: the future. Some of the things you said I didn't

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Speaker 2: agree with, but you know I agreed with you on.

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Speaker 1: That, okay, So what did you not agree with me?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think if you look at oil and guess,

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Speaker 2: for example, two hundred million dollars of oil and gas companies,

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Speaker 2: you're right in one respect, it is a small amount

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Speaker 2: of money relative to them. But it's also the government

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Speaker 2: taking on some of the risk for something that may

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Speaker 2: never actually eventuate. So it's a government saying, yeah, go drill,

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Speaker 2: we'll pay for it if nothing hadventu or we'll pay

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Speaker 2: for some of it's taken it. But actually there's no

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Speaker 2: guarante they're going to find anything. You know, the last

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Speaker 2: twenty years they've been looking, they haven't found a commercially

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Speaker 2: commercially developable find over the last twenty years. So it's

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Speaker 2: potentially the government just flushing twenty million dollars two undred

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Speaker 2: million dollars down the drain.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps, So it also ties your hands though, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the reason they're having to do this is

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Speaker 1: because what this does is it ties your hands. Should you,

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Speaker 1: guys win an election substage in the future, you can't

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Speaker 1: get rid of the gas exploration.

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Speaker 2: Not necessarily. I mean we'll cross that bridge, will we

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Speaker 2: come to it, But.

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Speaker 1: I think you're not going to flush that money down

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Speaker 1: the toilet at But we've got.

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Speaker 2: An abundance of energy, we certainly do, and we have

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Speaker 2: a lot of coal. Now, we've got an abundance of

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Speaker 2: renewable energy. One area where I do agree with Shane

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Speaker 2: Jones super critical geothermal. So that's basically you know, the

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Speaker 2: steam under the ground. We've got an abundance of that,

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Speaker 2: and if we can clock the technology on that, we're

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Speaker 2: sorted as a country. So actually I think that thankly,

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Speaker 2: if I was putting two hundred million dollars into some

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Speaker 2: big bold and energy thing. I'll probably put it into that,

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Speaker 2: not a to oil and gas.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what did you make of taking the doll off teenagers?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's basically saying that you're not an adult till

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Speaker 2: you're twenty. And is the government going to extend that

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Speaker 2: to everything. I've got to get into the detail of that, because,

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Speaker 2: for example, what does it mean for dependent kids who

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Speaker 2: have disabilities?

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Speaker 3: For example, now in that.

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Speaker 2: Case just jobs seek as emergency. Look, I haven't seen

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Speaker 2: the detail. So on the surface of it, saying to parents,

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Speaker 2: you know your kids are your kids. You know you're

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Speaker 2: liable to them until their twenties. That's agree shold is.

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Speaker 1: That you don't have eighteen or nineteen year olds. So

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Speaker 1: we know kids like us. I know a kid like this.

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Speaker 1: We don't want them sitting and literally sitting on the

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Speaker 1: parents couch playing the PlayStation, sitting on the doll. We

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Speaker 1: want to give them the best chance in life, go out, study,

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Speaker 1: get a job, waterever.

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Speaker 2: I think getting them into things like apprenticeships is a

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Speaker 2: much better course of action. You know, the apprenticeship boost,

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Speaker 2: which the government came in half in last year's budget,

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Speaker 2: was actually doing quite a good job of getting kids

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Speaker 2: into apprenticeships.

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Speaker 1: But is there anything wrong with an incentive like the

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Speaker 1: carrot and the stick. This is the stick, then you

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Speaker 1: have the carrot.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think the carrot is good.

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Speaker 2: The stick when there aren't jobs for them to go

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Speaker 2: into is a bit problematic. So beating kids for not

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Speaker 2: going into jobs that aren't scared go study is a

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Speaker 2: bit problematic.

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Speaker 1: Go study something for a couple of years that's at

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Speaker 1: least worthwhile, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Look i'd love to see more kids going into tertiary study.

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Speaker 3: In fact, they are.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're seeing we're seeing enrollment numbers going. I'm

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Speaker 2: saying I wouldn't necessarily have done what they've done, but

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Speaker 2: you know, I do worry about needs. So the nets

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Speaker 2: are there, not an education, employment or training. I do

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Speaker 2: worry about the number of them, and it's been steadily

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Speaker 2: growing over several decades, so under multiple governments, that number

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Speaker 2: has been growing, and that is it is one of

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Speaker 2: those big long term problems that the governments still aren't

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Speaker 2: doing much about.

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Speaker 1: Right, do you want to have a go at pay

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Speaker 1: equity because I know that's the thing that's been winding

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Speaker 1: you up the most.

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Speaker 2: Of course it is it's basically saying to New Zealand women,

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Speaker 2: you have to settle for being paid less so the

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Speaker 2: government can balance its books.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think that's right.

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Speaker 1: Or is it just saying that that particular scheme wasn't

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Speaker 1: working and we've got to do it a little bit better.

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Speaker 2: Well, the particular scheme worked very well for the roughly

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Speaker 2: half of the pay when.

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Speaker 1: He claims there was the rettle very well for the

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Speaker 1: old tax payer though, was it?

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Speaker 3: Well, ultimately, how.

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Speaker 1: Much did they save should be? Was it thirteen billions?

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Speaker 1: That's enormous.

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Speaker 2: But do you think that we should balance the government's

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Speaker 2: books by saying to women you should settle for being

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Speaker 2: paid less than men.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think that's right.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, it depends. I mean you know that this

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Speaker 1: actually comes down to which men were comparing ourselves with, right,

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Speaker 1: because I'd love to be compared with an orthopedic surgeon.

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Speaker 1: But it's not realistic.

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Speaker 2: And well no, because it's not that simplistic because actually

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Speaker 2: you still have to prove that the work that's being

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Speaker 2: done by the male dominated workforces of a similar or

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Speaker 2: equal value. So the process is actually quite a complicated one.

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Speaker 2: It's not you don't just pluck figures out of thing

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Speaker 2: there and go, look, I'm a I'm going to compare

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Speaker 2: myself to an astronaut. You have to demonstrate that the

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Speaker 2: astronaut's actually doing work that's of similar value to the

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Speaker 2: work that you're doing, even if the field that they're

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Speaker 2: working in is different.

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Speaker 1: Shall we play this game? What have you called the budget?

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Speaker 3: Ah? Look, I haven't quite landed a lot of title yet.

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Speaker 2: I mean the worthless budget because actually, if you think

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Speaker 2: about it, it's saying to women that they're worthless. It's

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Speaker 2: saying to all working New Zealand, is your Keisaver when

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Speaker 2: you reach retirement is going to be worthless?

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Speaker 3: Because let's say we.

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Speaker 1: Workshopping this right now on you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is good. You can contribute, feel

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Speaker 3: free to contribute.

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Speaker 2: But you know, like kiwisaver, if you're an eighteen year

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Speaker 2: old on the minimum wage, sixty over sixty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: has just disappeared from your retirement savings because of the

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Speaker 2: changes the government's made, because they've taken that government contribution

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Speaker 2: outs taken out. Yeah, but ultimately, you know, if we

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Speaker 2: want people to have a decent standard of retirement, we've

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Speaker 2: got to make sure that people want decent retirements over pension.

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Speaker 1: We're already doing that. How much more do you want

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Speaker 1: us to do?

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Speaker 2: I think increasing contributions to kipisaver good, so agree with

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Speaker 2: the government on that. But cutting the government contribution ultimately

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Speaker 2: then cancels out the benefit of that. So it's saying

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Speaker 2: we're going to the government's going to take money away

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Speaker 2: from you, and oh, by the way, well you're going

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Speaker 2: to compensate by saving more of your own money.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's generally how savings work should be. It's good

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Speaker 1: to have you and thank you for coming in. Chris Hopkins,

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Speaker 1: Labor Party leader.

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Speaker 2: Right now for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen

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