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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International realty, local and

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Speaker 1: global exposure like no other.

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Speaker 2: Joining me on the huddle this evening is Tim Wilson

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Speaker 2: from the Maximum Institute. Good evening, Tim, yeay, Ryan, how

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Speaker 2: are you doing good? Thank you? And Rob Campbell's here

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Speaker 2: aut chancel the former health ends in Chare. Hey Rob Ry,

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Speaker 2: how are you? Yeah, really good? Thank you. Good to

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Speaker 2: have you both on the huddle. Let's start as well,

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Speaker 2: just as rolling.

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Speaker 3: None of the same thing in Wellington, isn't it?

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, Yeah exactly. It's the Golden Mile, not

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Speaker 4: the Golden Mile.

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Speaker 2: It just makes you sad and depressed. And I mean

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Speaker 2: it's not helped by because there's there's a whole range

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Speaker 2: of factors. But obviously the public sector lay offs are

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Speaker 2: having a real effect there. You know, confidence is low.

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Speaker 2: You've got all of the best cafes closing if they

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Speaker 2: can't stay open. But they'll turn a corner, they'll turn

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Speaker 2: a corner.

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Speaker 5: But will the council turn a corner? That's the question.

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Speaker 4: It's like, oh, we put up you know, keep rates

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Speaker 4: at ten percent, which you could think, oh, even that's

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Speaker 4: a bit hi given them a property's gone back twenty

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Speaker 4: five percent.

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Speaker 5: Nah, not interested.

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Speaker 2: The thing about Wellington is there's only so much land,

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Speaker 2: especially around the central city, and a lot of it

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Speaker 2: that is hilly and you can't build on it. And

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Speaker 2: then you don't really want to be in a big,

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Speaker 2: sky high apartment because of the earthquake risk.

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Speaker 5: So that's true.

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Speaker 2: You know, long term, I think things are good. If

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Speaker 2: you're a property owner in Mellington, you're a cheerleader.

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Speaker 5: Ryan.

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Speaker 2: Hey, let's talk about coming order Robin. The turnaround plan.

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Speaker 2: They say they will sell off nine hundred older homes

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Speaker 2: that are damp and moldy, and we will build newer

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Speaker 2: ones and we will keep you know, there'll be a net.

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Speaker 2: There will be no net loss of homes. What do

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Speaker 2: you make of it? I think, Rob, I think you

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Speaker 2: might have muted your phone in the meantime, Tim, what

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Speaker 2: do you think of the plan?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've done that with my phone and myself a

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Speaker 4: few times.

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Speaker 5: So look, I realized I was actually really interested with the.

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Speaker 2: Cheek cheap on the button.

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Speaker 5: There we go, check on the button.

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Speaker 4: Look, I'm actually was interested to hear in the news

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Speaker 4: where it's like saying, oh, you know, your coying a

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Speaker 4: order the houses are twelve percent more to build, and

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Speaker 4: then we hear a builder saying well, that's because they're

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Speaker 4: better quality than the houses in the market. You think,

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Speaker 4: oh golly, so why would you buy a house in

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Speaker 4: the market. I mean, it seems like they're more expensive

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Speaker 4: to build. They've got two hundred houses in Auckland worth

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Speaker 4: two million, and fifty eight percent of the demand is

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Speaker 4: for single bedroom dwellings, whereas only twelve percent of the

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Speaker 4: capacities there.

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Speaker 5: Something definitely has to change with coying of order.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that sounds like it needs rob Ryan.

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Speaker 3: We need a bigger and better caring or It's very

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Speaker 3: clear that we are going to need more social housing

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Speaker 3: and more socially provided housing going on into the future.

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Speaker 3: So to put forward a plan which only produces the

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Speaker 3: same number of houses is really not addressing the issue

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Speaker 3: in any way whatsoever. There's nothing wrong with some recycling

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Speaker 3: of our sets. That makes perfect sense as long as

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Speaker 3: it's done in an appropriate way. But the underwhelming thing

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Speaker 3: is that it doesn't recognize any part of the housing

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Speaker 3: crisis there is in New Zealand availability of housing at

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Speaker 3: reasonable rents to people who can't afford to buy houses.

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Speaker 3: That's the issue. That we're going to have to address

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Speaker 3: and this just bypasses us as if it didn't even exist.

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Speaker 2: But that's I think that's the point exactly that the

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Speaker 2: minister was making in his stand up. He said, fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of the twenty thousand people who are currently on

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Speaker 2: the waitlist, fifty percent are already in private housing. It's

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Speaker 2: just that their incomes aren't keeping up to the point

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Speaker 2: where they need to be on the list for social housing.

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Speaker 2: He says, the private housing market is broken and you

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Speaker 2: need to do a whole bunch of things to fix

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Speaker 2: the wider market and that will help to alleviate the

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Speaker 2: social housing weightlist.

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Speaker 3: Does he have a point, Well, if he thinks that

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Speaker 3: there is some way in which the private housing market

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Speaker 3: it is being fixed, it might well be a point.

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Speaker 3: But we know that's not the case. People are not

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Speaker 3: building housing for people who are low income earners and

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Speaker 3: low incomers, as we know from recent stats of falling

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Speaker 3: further and further behind in terms of the cost of

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Speaker 3: living in relative and absolute terms. So the government can't

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Speaker 3: sort of put these things off and say, oh, the

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Speaker 3: private sector is going to deal with it. The private

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Speaker 3: sector will build the houses where it can make money

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Speaker 3: out of doing so, and at the moment it doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem to be anyway. It makes money out of providing

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Speaker 3: the sort of housing that we actually need. So no,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to He can say that as much

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Speaker 3: as he likes, but frankly and you said it was

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Speaker 3: at a standard. He must be a stand up comedian.

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Speaker 2: Rob Campbell, Tim Wilson on the Huddle Back in a second.

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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Elevate the

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Speaker 1: Marketing of your.

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Speaker 2: Home thirteen to Sex. Tim Wilson from the Maximum Institute

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Speaker 2: and Rob Campbell, aut chancellor and former health ends each

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Speaker 2: Yair on the Huddle tonight. Welcome back guys, so growth,

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Speaker 2: We're all going for growth. Nikola Willis was on the

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Speaker 2: show last night and I kept asking her about the

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Speaker 2: corporate tax rate. You know, Luxe and ital kept going

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Speaker 2: on about how much we love Ireland. Well, Ireland have

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Speaker 2: a very low corporate tax rate. It's twelve and a

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Speaker 2: half percent. Singapore has seventeen percent. Ours is twenty eight percent.

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Speaker 2: The minister acknowledged on the show last night we're no

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Speaker 2: longer competitive on our corporate tax rate. Do you think

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Speaker 2: Tim it's it would be a smart idea to move

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Speaker 2: that rate and try and encourage companies to either set

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Speaker 2: up here or do more business here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it would.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we've we've got two issues here in our country.

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Speaker 4: We've got a productivity problem and a capital problem. We're

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Speaker 4: trouble attracting capital.

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Speaker 5: So, like you know, if we.

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Speaker 4: Were talking about houses before, the way a lot of

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Speaker 4: investors do it is they let you know, the buy

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Speaker 4: a house and let it sleep walk to capital gain.

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Speaker 5: That doesn't create dynamism in the economy.

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Speaker 4: And so if there's a reduction in the corporate tax,

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Speaker 4: you would think, well, that might actually divert investment into

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Speaker 4: more productive and more dynamic as its companies, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Maybe they might even start a company that can build

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Speaker 4: houses more cheaply that can assist.

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Speaker 5: A low socio x.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean Ireland twelve point five. It's but

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Speaker 4: it's interesting. Sweden and Norway are those Scandinavians they're always

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Speaker 4: also called they do it pretty well. Theirs is actually

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Speaker 4: twenty in Sweden percent and twenty two in Norway. Ours

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Speaker 4: is twenty eight. If the Swedes can do it, one

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Speaker 4: of us rob.

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Speaker 3: Well, you won't be surprised. I don't agree with that.

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Speaker 2: When you.

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Speaker 3: Business, or on people for that matter, you've got to

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Speaker 3: think about the whole tax burden. Company tax is just

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Speaker 3: one part of it, and relative to some other countries,

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Speaker 3: our company tax burden looked at on its own, is

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Speaker 3: relatively high. But this is a race to the bottom.

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Speaker 3: Cutting corporate tax rates is a kind of a game

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Speaker 3: that can play for a long time before people get

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Speaker 3: attracted here. And it's cutting.

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Speaker 2: It make you think.

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Speaker 3: You know, these businesses, these capitalists that are supposed to

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Speaker 3: be able to save us, they need an awful lot

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Speaker 3: of encouragement, don't they. They won't invest unless they have

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Speaker 3: appropriate rules. They won't come here unless the electricity is cheap.

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Speaker 3: They won't build houses unless they get tax concessions of

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Speaker 3: their landlords. Now, they won't come here and set up

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Speaker 3: businesses unless company tax rate is too low. How come

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Speaker 3: it's them They're supposed to be the strong element in

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Speaker 3: our economy. They're the ones that need all the encouragement.

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Speaker 3: They've got to be coached to do any of the

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Speaker 3: things that people think they do. Now, you can't coach

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Speaker 3: people into doing these things. We've got to face the

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Speaker 3: realities that we need revenue for a whole lot of things,

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Speaker 3: and if we cut the company tax rate, we will

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Speaker 3: have to get the tax from somewhere else. And so

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Speaker 3: people just have to be a bit realistic about that.

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Speaker 2: The idea with the ideas that you will grow right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at Ireland as an example. They literally

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Speaker 2: have so much tax revenue flowing into their coffers that

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Speaker 2: there's setting up a sovereign wealth fund to dump it into.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're drowning in tax revenue because.

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Speaker 5: Could they dump it over here please?

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Speaker 2: It would be nice. But you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: And aren't we at risk if we turn our noses

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Speaker 2: up and say, well, the corporates do this, and the

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Speaker 2: corporates do that. Are we not at risk of sitting

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Speaker 2: by and becoming an economic backwater at the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the Pacific?

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Speaker 3: Well, you could argue that we are something of an

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Speaker 3: economic batworder. I prefer to think of ourselves as being

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Speaker 3: in the center Oceania rather than at the bottom of

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Speaker 3: the Pacific. But you know, you may have noticed that

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Speaker 3: Ireland has some advantages that New Zealand has doesn't have,

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Speaker 3: particularly being packed right next door to the EU, right

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Speaker 3: next door to the UK, and they have had some

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Speaker 3: positive return from companies going there who would otherwise have

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Speaker 3: been somewhere else to get to take advantage of the

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Speaker 3: lower tax rate. And there'll be some New Zealand income

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Speaker 3: being diverted to major corporations who have a tax base

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Speaker 3: in Ireland. But believe me, that will change. That moves

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Speaker 3: around the world as various people try to have these

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Speaker 3: smart a ideas, and eventually the answer to this is

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Speaker 3: not to chase each other to the larwest possible tax rate.

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Speaker 4: All right, I just wonder if there's a potential for

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Speaker 4: a general tax tax take increase. My understanding is JFJFK

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Speaker 4: cut corporate taxes when he came into sixty one in

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Speaker 4: the court of the actual total tax take increased in

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Speaker 4: the United States during the nineteen sixties. So I think

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Speaker 4: there's lots of facets to this argument.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was a theory that was floated back at

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Speaker 3: the time, but it's been pretty much discredited. The idea

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Speaker 3: that there is some automatic knee jerk response simply doesn't

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Speaker 3: hold up. There have been one or two instances where

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Speaker 3: it's been observed, with other instances where that reaction simply

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Speaker 3: hasn't happened. It depends on a whole lot of other factors.

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Speaker 3: It's just not an arithmetic outcome, but.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of a logical one, isn't it. If you

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Speaker 2: can go and do business somewhere cheaper, then you would

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Speaker 2: because you'd make more money and in the process we

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Speaker 2: would have more money.

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Speaker 3: And look, if we lower our tax rates, we will

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Speaker 3: get some more people here. If we lower our electricity

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Speaker 3: prices and subsidize them, we might even get an aluminium

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Speaker 3: smelder here. Oh, hang on, we've got one. If we

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Speaker 3: do various things. Yes, we can get things here. We

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Speaker 3: can get people to come here. Will we as New

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Speaker 3: Zealand benefit from it? Other than an arithmeticuptick and GDP?

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Speaker 3: Will we benefit as a society from It's entirely a

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Speaker 3: different question.

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Speaker 2: All right, hey, very quickly. This real estate agent Janet Dixon,

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Speaker 2: she's lost her court battle after she tried to get

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Speaker 2: out of doing a multi course in Wellington, and basically

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Speaker 2: she's been found that it's been found that her license

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Speaker 2: was revoked and that decision is staying. Got any reaction

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Speaker 2: to that, tim.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I was glad to hear Rob saying that

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Speaker 4: coaxing doesn't work I don't think coercion works either. It's

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Speaker 4: an interesting notion that compelling people to take Treaty t

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Speaker 4: kung At courses will improve relations and understanding of the treaty.

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Speaker 4: Compulsion just doesn't work for some people. We saw that

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Speaker 4: during COVID mandates, and it's interesting the Real Estate Authority

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Speaker 4: has recognized this because that course is no longer mandatory exactly.

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Speaker 2: The law has been changed since then, since this decision

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Speaker 2: came out today. It was sorry, I should say, in

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Speaker 2: the interim between when the case was taken and the

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Speaker 2: decision was made public today. Tim, thank you very much

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Speaker 2: for coming on the show, as always, Tim Wilson from

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Speaker 2: the Maximum Institute, and Rob Campbell, the AU two chancellor

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Speaker 2: and former health enz Chia.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplicy Allen Drive, listen live to

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