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Speaker 1: The government's tackling retail crime quite literally, making laws more

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Speaker 1: favorable for people, making citizens arrests. Changes would allow you

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Speaker 1: to intervene and stop any crimes act defense at any

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Speaker 1: time of day, while also removing the value of the

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Speaker 1: goods needing to be more than one thousand dollars. This

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Speaker 1: is for retail crime. Paul Goldsmith's Justice Minister, he's with me,

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Speaker 1: High Minister, Hello, how are you good? Thank you? How

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Speaker 1: exactly are we can we tackle people? How does it?

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Speaker 1: What are we allowed to do?

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Speaker 2: Well? Obviously we've got to pass the legislation first, So

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Speaker 2: these are proposals that we're going to we're working into

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Speaker 2: legislation and that would go after seat committee. So the

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Speaker 2: rules haven't changed today. We're announcing some proposals. And the

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Speaker 2: concern is, of course that there are too many instances

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Speaker 2: of people just walking away from shomps without paying and

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Speaker 2: a real sense of an inability to do anything about it,

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Speaker 2: and so reasonable force. So tackling somebody is not necessarily

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Speaker 2: reasonable force, but just stopping them from walking away with

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Speaker 2: gear might be. And so those are the sorts of

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Speaker 2: things that we're thinking of.

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Speaker 1: Right, so you could grab under your proposal you could

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Speaker 1: grab someone by the arm to hold them, but you couldn't.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't get them to the ground and hold them

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Speaker 1: on the ground.

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're thinking, Well, yeah, well the definition

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Speaker 2: of reasonable force is something that the courts have worked

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Speaker 2: their way through. But yes, holding on to somebody and

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Speaker 2: stopping them from getting away and.

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Speaker 1: Restraint the restraints that you can use. Does that mean

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Speaker 1: you can tie somebody up until the police arrive.

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Speaker 2: Well, potentially, if that's required and if the circumstances required,

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Speaker 2: and that the critical thing first is that the expanding

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Speaker 2: the opportunity. At the moment, it's very highly restricted. It's

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Speaker 2: got to you know, it's got to be over three

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Speaker 2: year sentence for it, for it for a crime, it's

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Speaker 2: got to be at night. And so that all means

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Speaker 2: that there are very few opportunities when people can do this.

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Speaker 2: We're wanting to expand that, but if you do, you've

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Speaker 2: got to bring the police immediately and do what the

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Speaker 2: police tell you to do. So it's not a sort

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Speaker 2: of an open ended thing. But you know, what are

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Speaker 2: we worried about. We're worried about retail crime and we've

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Speaker 2: got to come up with some new ways to deal

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Speaker 2: with is.

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Speaker 1: This actually going to be a revolutionary way that deals

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Speaker 1: with the problem. I know you say there's more to come,

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Speaker 1: but this is you've been in government now for how

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Speaker 1: long have you been in government? A year and a

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Speaker 1: half and this is your first big one from this

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Speaker 1: working group, and actually you've got most retailers saying they're

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Speaker 1: not going to use it.

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Speaker 2: Well, first thing would be to say, you know, as

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Speaker 2: we did last year. Last year, we were focusing on

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Speaker 2: bringing about three strikes with sentencing law which is going

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Speaker 2: to be pasted next week, which is around reducing the

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Speaker 2: ability of judges to massively reduce prison sentences when people

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Speaker 2: are convicted of serious crimes. Then we've given all the

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Speaker 2: police the extra powers to deal with the gangs because

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Speaker 2: the focus is on reducing the victims of crime. So

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Speaker 2: we've been working away through a stuff and now we're

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Speaker 2: on to a crime. We set them up late late

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Speaker 2: last year and they're coming up with ideas and we've

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Speaker 2: got more to come. So's we're busy. We've got a

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Speaker 2: lot going on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but you accept that most retailers won't use this one.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a this is one that is of

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Speaker 2: particular interest to the small dairies of people on their own,

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Speaker 2: their own businesses wanting to have some means of dealing

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Speaker 2: with people coming in and dealing with this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: That the larger corporates may have a different focus. They're

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Speaker 2: probably looking more at facial recognition and they've got other

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Speaker 2: things that they can focus on. But there's no one

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Speaker 2: sort of one type of retailer. There's lots of different

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Speaker 2: interests and fashions and so we're still going to work

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Speaker 2: our way through them all carefully.

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Speaker 1: All Right, good on youre, Paul. Thanks very much for

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Speaker 1: your time, Paul Goldsmith, the Justice Minister.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 2: News Talks.

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