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Speaker 1: Heller do for see Alie. So there's been a report

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Speaker 1: that specialist doctors are refusing to see patients because the

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Speaker 1: waiting lists are already too long. And this has come

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Speaker 1: about because a letter from Palmeston North Hospital's orthopedic clinic

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Speaker 1: to a GP says a patient can't be accepted the

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Speaker 1: waiting time targets have been leaked to media because of

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Speaker 1: the waiting time targets. Rather, Sarah Dalton is the executive

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Speaker 1: director of the Association of Salary Medical Specialists and is

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Speaker 1: with us now.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Sarah, Hey, how are you doing very very well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you that we've got one example here, But is

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Speaker 1: this happening more regularly?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would reframe it. They're not refusing to

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Speaker 2: see patients. They physically cannot given the resources they currently have,

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Speaker 2: the staffing levels we currently have, the access to clinics

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Speaker 2: and operating theaters and hospital beds we currently have. They

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Speaker 2: want to see those patients, believe you me.

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Speaker 1: But why can't they just put the people at the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the waiting list and then let the people

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Speaker 1: work their way up.

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Speaker 2: I think the point they're making is if they put

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Speaker 2: someone on a waiting list like that at this time,

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Speaker 2: that person is never going to make their way up,

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Speaker 2: and so they are trying to inject I think some

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Speaker 2: honesty and some realism into what we call unmet needs.

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Speaker 2: So we are a wash in secondary unmet need in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand, which is all of those people who need

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Speaker 2: care but can't access it because of rationing. So making

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Speaker 2: a statement yeah, I think so, but also being honest,

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Speaker 2: like it is so frustrating. I was listening to the

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Speaker 2: GPS on the radio this morning saying, this is a

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Speaker 2: real problem for us. We don't have the resources we're

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Speaker 2: being asked to manage these patients. We're only referring them

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Speaker 2: because they need hospital level care. We know that our

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Speaker 2: members know that. It is a real frustration. So basically

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Speaker 2: that funders and decision makers further up the heap are

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Speaker 2: leaving it on the shoulders of specialist GPS and hospital

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Speaker 2: specialists to say, hey, you sort it out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is not about gaming the waiting time targets.

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Speaker 2: It is not from the perspective of our members, the

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Speaker 2: senior doctors. They are trying to say, hey, we need

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Speaker 2: to talk honestly with people about what we're able to

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Speaker 2: do at the moment. The government setting targets without providing

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Speaker 2: resources to meet them. That's a game all of its own.

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Speaker 2: We could talk about that. There will be pressure on

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Speaker 2: hospital managers to gain the targets, to show that they

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Speaker 2: are making progress against them. It is a real, really

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Speaker 2: problematic way to try and manage the pressures on our

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Speaker 2: health system.

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Speaker 1: Sarah, thank you appreciate it. That's Sarah Dalton, Association of

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Speaker 1: Salary Medical Specialist Executive Director. For more from Heather Duplessy

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Speaker 1: Allen Drive, listen live to news talks the'd be from

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Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.