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Speaker 1: Now the Finance min Ister. Spending is coming under further pressure,

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Speaker 1: this time from within cabinet. David Seymour has now called

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Speaker 1: out National and Nikola Willis for not cutting more public servants.

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Speaker 2: I believe that there's still too many people and we're

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Speaker 2: not necessarily delivering better services than in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: And also for not cutting enough spending all together.

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Speaker 2: This government is not saving money as aggressively as the

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Speaker 2: ACT Party would.

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Speaker 1: So let's have a chat to him.

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Speaker 3: David.

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Speaker 1: Hello, hey, Heather, So is it National that's not allowing

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Speaker 1: you to cut the public servants you want to cut?

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Speaker 3: Well? I never point fingers at people. I mean, we're

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Speaker 3: part of the government, we work together. But I think

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Speaker 3: anyone who is familiar with the angle that the different

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Speaker 3: parties took in the ACT Party left a receipt which

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Speaker 3: was our alternative budget, where we said that we wanted

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Speaker 3: to reduce the number of public servants back to pre

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Speaker 3: labor levels, and we also said that we wanted to

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Speaker 3: reduce spending by about eight or nine billion each year.

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Speaker 3: The government hasn't done that. I think we can point

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Speaker 3: to quite a few areas where ACT ministers and myself

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Speaker 3: have helped the taxpayers save some money, so we can

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Speaker 3: say the government's gone further than it might have without Acts,

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Speaker 3: but not as far as.

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Speaker 1: We would Okay, So if you guys are the ones

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Speaker 1: wanting to cut that many and it's not happening, we'll

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Speaker 1: blame New Zealand first and national. What are the reasons

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Speaker 1: that they are giving you for not cutting those public servants?

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I don't think it's as simple

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Speaker 3: as three parties sitting down. It is a whole process

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Speaker 3: of different ministers saying I need to do this, and

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Speaker 3: therefore I don't want to cut that, or I need

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Speaker 3: extra money to do this. So it's kind of a

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Speaker 3: big washing machine that all comes together. But the overall

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Speaker 3: vibe of it is that we're doing the amounts of

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Speaker 3: spending reduction that we are. I'm still happy to be

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Speaker 3: there for this very simple reason that I know the

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Speaker 3: other guys would be much much worse. But it's definitely

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Speaker 3: true that Acts General pushes for less spend England. Perhaps

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Speaker 3: others would.

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Speaker 1: Have you see, David, I mean, look, I have sympathy

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Speaker 1: for the fact that obviously when you guys are in

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Speaker 1: the room, you guys know what's going on there. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to let you get away with this

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Speaker 1: as a voter, right because I'm disappointed when I look

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Speaker 1: at the government and I see that you guys haven't

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Speaker 1: cut the promised number of public servants. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: blame New Zealand First National and you aren't.

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Speaker 3: I yeah, I can understand. I can understand that. But

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Speaker 3: I think if I was a voter, I'd be saying, Okay,

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Speaker 3: how do I keep this government? Because my number one

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Speaker 3: priority is you know, the honorable Cooe Swarbrick, Minister for

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Speaker 3: anything sound, But.

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Speaker 1: Why do I want to keep this government? David? I

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Speaker 1: mean if at the moment it feels but it feels

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Speaker 1: like you guys are assuming that we want to keep

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Speaker 1: this government. This coment government is now profoundly disappointing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's as good as a red government, isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Well, First of all, I think we can say that

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Speaker 3: there are quite a number of things that we have

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Speaker 3: done better. Second of all, if you are concerned about

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Speaker 3: what sort of government you have instead of them, and

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Speaker 3: some one who says, look, I think that I want

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Speaker 3: to see less spending. I want to see fewer public servants,

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Speaker 3: want to see faster reductions then you know, I think

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Speaker 3: it's pretty easy to see that without revealing the confidence

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Speaker 3: of any discussions, which I won't do. You know who

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Speaker 3: went in there saying we need to cut a lot

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Speaker 3: more and a lot faster, and that was us. Do

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Speaker 3: you know what?

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Speaker 1: There is a credible path if you think about this,

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Speaker 1: credible path to victory for labor if they roll chippy

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Speaker 1: giving themselves the option to go with New Zealand first.

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Speaker 1: And I just wonder if you guys are overestimating or

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Speaker 1: underestimating the public's appetite for a change to that that

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Speaker 1: might not be that bad when we get to next

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Speaker 1: year and we're as disappointed in you guys as we are.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think people can make that argument if they want,

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Speaker 3: But I also just say to you this, there's never

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Speaker 3: been a government that has done as much as fast

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Speaker 3: to reform from the right, certainly not in two generations.

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Speaker 3: You think about three warders, the Maori Health Authority replacing

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Speaker 3: the RMA, doing services based on need not race, you know,

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Speaker 3: passing a regulatory standards bill that fundamentally renegotiates the relationship

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Speaker 3: between the state and regulating your property. That's why it's

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Speaker 3: been controversial on the left then you go through the

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Speaker 3: labor law changes. I mean, it really does add up.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty significant, and I think sometimes when you're on

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Speaker 3: a long walk it pays to just stop, look back,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes you're surprised at how far you've come. That

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Speaker 3: is what would be getting put at risk. And I

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Speaker 3: think speaking is act. We can claim to have done

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Speaker 3: our bit and probably a bit more in making it happen.

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Speaker 1: Look, if I know anything, it would be that you're

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Speaker 1: probably as frustrated as any of us at the spending

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Speaker 1: that's going on. Do you think that you have any

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Speaker 1: chance in the next eighteen months, which actually about a

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Speaker 1: year now, of getting the rest of the government to

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Speaker 1: tighten the belt.

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Speaker 3: Well, I do, and again I don't want to deny

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Speaker 3: that we actually made some progress. And when you look

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Speaker 3: at school lunches, have the cost of that pay equity saved,

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Speaker 3: you know, twelve billion or over four years or three

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Speaker 3: billion dollars a year my different savings exercises at each

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Speaker 3: budget five hundred million a year ongoing saved last year

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Speaker 3: saved one hundred and fifteen million ongoing at the budget

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Speaker 3: that we've just had. So you know, it's not that

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Speaker 3: it's all small and we're not doing anything. We're doing stuff,

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Speaker 3: probably just not quite as much as some of us

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Speaker 3: would like.

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Speaker 1: David, thanks very much. David Semore, Deputy Prime Minister, also

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Speaker 1: at party leading.

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