1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,920 Speaker 1: So it looks like it's going to be possible soon 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: to get hold of your Kiwi Saver money and then 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: use it obviously not just to invest in things you 4 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: already can, but now in a business as well. This 5 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: is one of the proposals from the government looking at 6 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: ways to free up local capital for investment in obviously 7 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: productive businesses but also an infrastructure and the minister behind 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: this is the Commerce and Consumer Affairs Man Andrew Bailey. 9 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: Morning, Andrew, good morning. 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: What kind of businesses are we talking about here? 11 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: Well, that'll be up to the discretion of Keevy's fund managers, 12 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: but also it might be that individuals. You might be 13 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: able to say, look, I want to have a bigger 14 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: exposure to environmental assets, or I do like the idea 15 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: of investing in building schools. So that will be driven 16 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: by people as well as the managers. 17 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: Is this a case of you instructing the manager what 18 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: to do or can you draw it out of body yourself? 19 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 2: No? No, this is what we're the bigger part of 20 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: this is what we're doing with the reforms is just 21 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: to give keev save A providers the opportunity if they 22 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: want to invest in a wider class investments, and at 23 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: the moment, many of them don't want to invest in 24 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: unlisted assets like private companies or infrastructure projects. So we've 25 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: been working through and removing some of the impediments to 26 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: that to give them flexibility. If they choose to do it, 27 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 2: that's good. If they don't, that's up to them, all. 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So it's not a case of me being 29 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: able to draw down on my key we save funds 30 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: and put it into a business that I want to 31 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: start up doing painting of houses. 32 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, definitely not No. It's you when you 33 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: choose your provider, and you know there's multiple KEP saver 34 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: for providers. One of the selection criter you might say 35 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: to yourself is, look, I like to invest in environmental 36 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: aspects or whatever it might be. Is there a fund 37 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: that offers that type of investment, which is something that 38 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: might involve investing in those types of companies. 39 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: Is that wise, Andrew, Because I mean, you're going to 40 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: get a whole bunch of people out there go I 41 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: think that sounds nice. I'm going to I'm going to 42 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: invest in some environmental stuff. Not always the wisest investment. 43 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, But it's up to the keyp saver providers 44 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: think that there's a class that they can invest in 45 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: and get a good return. Now exalt me. They'll be 46 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: measured on the return that they delivered to people like 47 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: you and I who invest in our quep saver. They've 48 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: got to make sure that they are competitive so that 49 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: they're not just going to blind the invest and stuff. 50 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: And if they don't see that there's good types of 51 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: assets they want to invest in, they won't do that. 52 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. Now listen on another subject altogether, what 53 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: did you make of the ComCom laying those criminal charges 54 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: against the supermarkets. 55 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: Well, I've asked them to be a courageous litigator, and 56 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: obviously they are pursuing a range of actions. Obviously we're 57 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: a few of them, and I think it's good that 58 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: we've got a robust regulated out during the work. 59 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: Did you see the Federated Farmers guys have laid a 60 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: complained with the ComCom about the banks and their climate 61 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: targets and so on. 62 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 2: Yes, And of course you know that's one of the 63 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 2: reasons why we wanted the Select Committee to go through 64 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 2: and start talking about some of these issues. So obviously 65 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: that's subject to that process. That Federated farmaus want to pursue, 66 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: but that's yet to be proved otherwise one way or 67 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: the other. But it's good that we are having a 68 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 2: robust discussion around some of these aspects. 69 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: I mean, what they're alleging is that because these guys 70 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: have signed up to some sort of net zero climate 71 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: banking alliance or something like that, they're all acting like 72 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: a cartel. Now these are the banks because they're going 73 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: around saying to the gas stations, we're not going to 74 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: fund you past twenty thirty and there's no alternative because 75 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: the cartel works together. Have they got a case here? 76 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: Is this something that ComCom would look into? 77 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: Look? I think it's more. I think that there's issues 78 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: that have been raised, certainly in Select Committee about it. 79 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: I don't think that particular case I think might be 80 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: more illegal aspect rather than the ComCom issue, but it is. 81 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: Of course, banks have a choice. It's about getting the 82 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: right balance. And of course the aspersion or their claim 83 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: is that they're overly predominated. They're thinking around and reducing 84 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: climate and again we've had the same comment around the 85 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: Reserve Bank. 86 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, but do you know what, are they doing the 87 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: wrong thing? Because they are sort of tied by what 88 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank is requiring them to do on the 89 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: climate front, aren't they. 90 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: Yes, And again that's been a point that it's been 91 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: raised look at. That's something that obviously, it will work 92 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 2: its way through. I know some of the concom and 93 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: it's banking report talked about some of the banking issues 94 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: and some of the motivations. We talked about capital adequacy ratios, 95 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: which is the way the amount of money that banks 96 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: can put towards certain classes of assets. So again that's 97 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: all part of the wider conversation. But I think that 98 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: will work through its process. But at the moment, I've 99 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: I've seen the announcement that they've made. 100 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: If you find out Andrew that the reason that the 101 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: banks are acting like this towards the gas stations is 102 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: because the Reserve Bank is forcing them with these climate 103 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: reportant requirements, will you act to make the Reserve Bank 104 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: stop doing that? 105 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's Nicola Willis's Jurius section, it's not mine. But 106 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: I think the wider point is is there have people 107 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: become overly focused and there for missing out parts of 108 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: the economy that are legitimate, legitimate operations, but banks are 109 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: choosing to go down the route so that are all work. 110 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: It's way through. We want to make sure that the 111 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: banking sector particularly is banking the productive sector, businesses, you know, 112 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: all those types of things, and agricultural sector as well. 113 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: And there's a number of reasons why that there's been 114 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: quite a shift. The major reason why it's been noted 115 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 2: by the Commences Commission is that around the rules of 116 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: lending that the bank is implied, but of course the 117 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: banks are taking a view that they need to meet 118 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: environmental requirements and of course that's causing problems in cases 119 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 2: quite right. 120 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: Hey, Andrew, thanks very much, really appreciate you talking us 121 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: through it. Andrew Bailey, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister. For 122 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to News 123 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: at B from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 124 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.