1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,240
Speaker 1: Thomas Coglin, the Herald's political editors, with us A Thomas. Listen,

2
00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: this business of the government hitting this crime target four

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: years early, this is obviously good news for them, right

4
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 1: goes without saying.

5
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,039
Speaker 2: Yes, it does go without saying. And I think there's

6
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 2: no political saying, or if there isn't, it probably should

7
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 2: be that it's never too early to declare victory, which

8
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,360
Speaker 2: is what the government is doing here. You'll remember remember

9
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 2: a few a few years ago the Labor government declared

10
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 2: victory on the budget responsibility rules a little bit earlier,

11
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 2: and then they started borrowing again after that declared victory.

12
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 2: So I think the government's sort of taken a nice

13
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 2: surprise here that they've got the crime target at the

14
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,640
Speaker 2: target as a twenty twenty nine target, they wanted to

15
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 2: reduce the number of victims of violent crime by twenty

16
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 2: thousand by twenty twenty nine compared with October twenty twenty

17
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,040
Speaker 2: three according to the latest New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey,

18
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,280
Speaker 2: which isn't actually out yet, that they're releasing the data

19
00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,960
Speaker 2: a bit early, they have had that target, So I

20
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 2: think I think that declaring victory now because there's probably

21
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: a good chance that the number creeps up again. That

22
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 2: Paul Goldsmith, Justice Minister is saying that date is a

23
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 2: bit lumpy, So so you know, they'll might go down

24
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 2: a bit further, it might bump up a bit more.

25
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,600
Speaker 2: So I guess that the proof, the proof of whether

26
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 2: they are successful as whether they can keep that number

27
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 2: down for the long term or whether it bounces around

28
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,479
Speaker 2: a bit. But you can you can certainly see why

29
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 2: when it has gone down as dramatically as it has done,

30
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 2: that they declaring an early victory.

31
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,960
Speaker 1: Only trouble with it is we can't be sure how

32
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 1: much of this is actually falling within the coalition's term

33
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 1: versus Labour's term, right, because it covers both.

34
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,119
Speaker 2: I yes, I think I think that is. I actually

35
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 2: don't have the exact period there, but.

36
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 1: February twenty three to February twenty four and Luxon becomes

37
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 1: Prime Minister in December twenty.

38
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,759
Speaker 2: Two or there you go. Yeah, so yeah, you're you're

39
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 2: you're quite right. So so yeah, and once again, you

40
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 2: know the proof of whether this is successful will be

41
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 2: whether they managed to maintain maintain that that victory.

42
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, brilliant. Okay, Now what do you make of this

43
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,840
Speaker 1: business with Chris luxon supporting the term pregnant women. Is

44
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: he going to get himself into trouble with some sensitive

45
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 1: members of our community?

46
00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,160
Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, Well, i'd imagine so when you do, when

47
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 2: you do go out on the limb on issues like this,

48
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,440
Speaker 2: you tend to you tend to to make yourself a

49
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 2: target for for some criticism. So I imagine he is

50
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 2: going to be a target for criticism issue. You know,

51
00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 2: I haven't seen any polling on this. It's not a

52
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,519
Speaker 2: very it's not a very well polled area, but I

53
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,200
Speaker 2: would I would imagine that the government focus groups and

54
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 2: polls pretty pretty clearly on it, and he's probably probably

55
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,120
Speaker 2: with somewhere within the pack of mainstream uteal and political opinion.

56
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 2: It's interesting, you know that the most national well I

57
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 2: shouldn't say most, a large number of NETS were in

58
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,839
Speaker 2: favor of the conversion therapy bands. So they're not they're

59
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,519
Speaker 2: not they're not totally you know that they're not completely

60
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 2: anti transgender or anti you know, modern gender sort of theory.

61
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, that there is a large diversity of

62
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 2: opinion within the NETS on that issue. But but you know,

63
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 2: on this particular one on the on the issue of language.

64
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 2: The PM and and Katie Costello, who's New Zealand First Minister,

65
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,480
Speaker 2: have been pretty clear where they stand.

66
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Thomas, what are the senior doctors looking for when

67
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,080
Speaker 1: they go on strike? What is it they want?

68
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,639
Speaker 2: They so, Simon Brown is there's a bit of a

69
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 2: dispute here they they are looking for, I guess some

70
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 2: better conditions to pay as everyone as everyone is. Simmyon

71
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,960
Speaker 2: Brown is actually pushing back on on on on on

72
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,080
Speaker 2: the amount of pushing back on them quite strongly, saying

73
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 2: that their average total remuneration at the moment is three

74
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 2: hundred and forty three thousand dollars. Now that the doctors

75
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 2: are pushing back on that figure cited by Browns and

76
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,800
Speaker 2: there's a bit of jiggery pokery and back and forth

77
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 2: on that issue, but it is, I mean, it is.

78
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 2: It is one of those challenging issues. I actually spoke

79
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 2: to Bill English a little while ago on the issue

80
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 2: of gps who are who are quite well paid as well,

81
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 2: and and he made the point that actually, with other

82
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 2: professionalized areas of work where people are paid pretty well,

83
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 2: some areas of the health system are actually poorly remunerated.

84
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,960
Speaker 2: When you look at other sort of top level jobs,

85
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 2: and so they're looking across as you know, some of

86
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 2: the top lawyers and accountants or whatever and feeling and

87
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 2: feeling a wee bit hard done by. And of course

88
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,360
Speaker 2: when you're when you're top salary medical specialist and you're

89
00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 2: a New Zealand citizen, then you've got the opportunity of

90
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 2: hopping on one way plane to Australia one way take

91
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 2: it to Australia and increasing your pay that way. So

92
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,440
Speaker 2: the governments of the government's pretty torn here between obviously

93
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 2: wanting to keep these people here they know they can

94
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,120
Speaker 2: name their price, but also, you know, all that money

95
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,480
Speaker 2: has to come from somewhere. The health system has been

96
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,799
Speaker 2: increasing its baseline spending like crazy over the last ten years.

97
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,680
Speaker 2: There really is limited money to go around, and a

98
00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 2: lot of that money, you know, it needs to go

99
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,919
Speaker 2: to these salary medical specialists, but it also needs to

100
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 2: go to frontline nurses who are also who are also

101
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 2: angling for pay.

102
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah fair enough, Hey, thank you, Thomas, really appreciate it.

103
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. For more from Heather

104
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,440
Speaker 1: Dupless see Allen Drive. Listen live to news Talks at

105
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,719
Speaker 1: b from four pm weekdays or follow the podcast on

106
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:06,599
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio