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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: Straight down the Middle, Trusty try get inside the game

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Speaker 1: from every end goal. It's Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith

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Speaker 1: and Leo Napier powered by News Talks ed B.

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Speaker 2: Welcome in too, Rugby Direct powered by Habit Health Physio

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Speaker 2: booked today and stay in the game these weeks. So

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Speaker 2: just piling up big time flying by Lea Napier. Good

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Speaker 2: to have your company once again on Rugby Directs.

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Speaker 3: Great to be back.

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Speaker 4: Elliott says, we build to the business end, and I

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Speaker 4: think some of the Rugby are seeing, certainly from the

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Speaker 4: New Zealand teams building towards that climax as well.

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Speaker 2: Certainly is let's touch on that first and foremost. The

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Speaker 2: Hurricanes forty five over the Highlanders twenty. He ate this is.

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Speaker 2: It was a cracking performance from the Hurricanes, at least

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Speaker 2: for the first half hour thirty five minutes and then

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Speaker 2: in patches in the second half. You go out to

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Speaker 2: a twenty one nil leads and looked asough it could

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Speaker 2: have been anything at one point, but the Highlanders outscored them.

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Speaker 2: From a certain point. And look, you know, it was

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Speaker 2: the last game of the season, they had nothing to

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Speaker 2: play for, but it wasn't entirely the hurricanes best performance

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Speaker 2: of the season. What did you make of it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree.

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Speaker 4: I think there's some vulnerabilities, clear vulnerabilities for the Hurricanes.

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Speaker 4: I think maybe they were guilty of it all coming

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Speaker 4: too easy too early, as you say, got out to

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Speaker 4: a twenty one nil leads, Josh Morby and others just

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Speaker 4: cutting the Highlanders to shreds, and I think they got

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Speaker 4: a bit free wheeling, a bit loose. And yeah, they

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Speaker 4: were rarely guilty of allowing the Hondas to come back

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Speaker 4: into that game. The Hurricanes had an early advantage with

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Speaker 4: Daniel Lenna Brown's red cards, so a one man advantage

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Speaker 4: for twenty minutes, and then they self destructed to a degree. Look, there,

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Speaker 4: scrum was a major major issue. Ethan the grout went

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Speaker 4: to town on Pasilio Tossi Angus Taraval when he came on,

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Speaker 4: had a big impact as well. Rackety Stones went to

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Speaker 4: the bin after the Hurricanes scrum kept getting penalized. I

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Speaker 4: think the Hurricanes conceded three tries from scrums. Lucas Casey

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Speaker 4: another big performance. So the Hurricanes also lose Devin Flanders

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Speaker 4: to a pretty nasty head not from that general Lennard

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Speaker 4: Brown incident. So I don't think they'll be overly satisfied

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Speaker 4: with that performance. I think the hand has outscored them,

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Speaker 4: like you say later in the game the second half

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Speaker 4: and the Hurricanes conceding yellow cards.

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Speaker 3: But look, they locked up top spot.

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Speaker 4: They still produced that attacking style that they've showcased this year.

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Speaker 4: I think internally there'll be a lot of questions and

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Speaker 4: I don't think they met the siens that they put

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Speaker 4: out so far this share.

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Speaker 2: And they also did it without Fai fitting on an

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Speaker 2: Alfo as well, and brought some players back in you

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Speaker 2: know more we played fullback. There was no Calum Harkin

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Speaker 2: on the weekend. What did you make of that red card? Incidentally, look,

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Speaker 2: Leonett Brown, he's one hundred and forty centimeters eighty hundred

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Speaker 2: and forty one hundred and eighty four centimeters. He is

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Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty odd kgs. Know how much lower

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Speaker 2: can he actually get when he's approaching a tackle against

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Speaker 2: Devin Flanders before the physics of the human body actually

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Speaker 2: come into play.

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Speaker 4: It's difficult isn't it. This is a rugby type incident

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Speaker 4: that often occurs. There's split seconds to the side's how

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Speaker 4: upright you're going to be. But in the modern game

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Speaker 4: it is a red card. I think that's the way

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Speaker 4: it's officiated. That was clear hit on head. He probably

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Speaker 4: could have been a wee bit lower, so I don't

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Speaker 4: think there was a lot of mitigation there, and unfortunately

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Speaker 4: it is a big punishment. But it's a twenty minute

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Speaker 4: red cards and super rugby anyway, and I think that's

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Speaker 4: about right to be honest. Deevin Flanders, it was a

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Speaker 4: pretty ugly incident in the ends. I'm certain he'll be

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Speaker 4: missing this week and it wouldn't be surprised if it's

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Speaker 4: even a bit longer.

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Speaker 3: What about you, do you think it was fair?

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Speaker 2: Well? I agree to the letter of the law it

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Speaker 2: was fair, but I do think there's just not a

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Speaker 2: lot of common sense being taken into these decisions by

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Speaker 2: the TMO in the referee. You know, yes we want

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Speaker 2: to protect the head. That's absolutely sacrecying, but there's nothing

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Speaker 2: really Daniel lennot Brown can do. He can get absolutely

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Speaker 2: lower and make the tackle there, but at some point

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Speaker 2: there are going to be rugby collisions. It was ugly

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Speaker 2: and obviously Flanders didn't return for the rest of the evening.

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Speaker 2: But I just wonder that we are being so over

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Speaker 2: officiated now to the point of trying to catch these

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Speaker 2: things that you're just never going to stamp it out.

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Speaker 2: I think across the board, the tackle will heights have

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Speaker 2: got so much better over the last five plus years

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Speaker 2: since World Rugby's clammed down on it, but there are

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Speaker 2: still going to be certain instant like this that I

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Speaker 2: just don't know what you're gaining by putting out a

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Speaker 2: twenty minute red card for those it wasn't malicious. Yes,

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Speaker 2: look maybe he could get a little bit lower in that,

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Speaker 2: but at some point you're just not going to catch

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Speaker 2: all of these these instances in the game, and there

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Speaker 2: are going to be quote unquote rugby incidents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do agree about that.

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Speaker 4: I think there should be a ruling around intent and look,

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Speaker 4: technique should come into it as well, but there are

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Speaker 4: always going to be there sintince. I think back a

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Speaker 4: number of years now too, when the All Blacks played

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Speaker 4: England's in Daneta and Angus Tartaveil Copter red cards for

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Speaker 4: basically a collision that he had no control over a

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Speaker 4: head on heads and he's gone. So I would like

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Speaker 4: to see things ruled more around intents. But there is

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Speaker 4: an onus on tacklers these days, around technique, around getting

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Speaker 4: as low as possible and avoiding those he contacts.

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Speaker 3: But sometimes they are unavoidable too.

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Speaker 2: While we're at it, Lucas Casey's first try being ruled

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Speaker 2: out all the one that he was scrubbed from when

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Speaker 2: he came off the mall and off the scrum rather

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Speaker 2: and scored. We're getting down to the real minute details. Look,

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Speaker 2: there was separation there. I won't deny that, but I

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Speaker 2: just kind of feel that we're looking for reasons to

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Speaker 2: scrub tries out more than actually award tries, and you know,

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Speaker 2: to me, I would have just awarded it. I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's enough there to suggest that he lost control.

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Speaker 2: There was probably separation, but you know, in the act

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Speaker 2: of grounding sometimes you know that does happen. Or am

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Speaker 2: I being just too relaxed about these things Limb.

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Speaker 4: That's probably a fine line call, Elliott, But look behind

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Speaker 4: us have had plenty of favorable calls throughout history and

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Speaker 4: Wellington when it comes to try scoring.

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Speaker 3: So I've got no beef for that decision.

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Speaker 2: Okay, interesting decisions. Yeah, yeah, that's what eleven years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah really I I spoke on the day after and

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Speaker 2: he reckoned. He got it down interesting.

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Speaker 4: From the absolutely did not, and I think if you

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Speaker 4: ask him these days over a pint, he'd probably he didn't.

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Speaker 2: The Highlanders changing up the run on props or the

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Speaker 2: run on front row for the game very very late

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Speaker 2: in the peace, deciding to bring to Groot and Co

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Speaker 2: off the bench rather than start them. What did you

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Speaker 2: make of that? From Jamie Joseph? It was a late

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Speaker 2: switch and obviously put Daniel Lennard Brown into the run

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Speaker 2: on team that he wasn't necessarily expecting to be or

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Speaker 2: hadn't been scheduled to be, and then his front row

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Speaker 2: partners as well, coming on to start the contest rather

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Speaker 2: than ended with Henry Bell and Solamu. And obviously Jamie

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Speaker 2: Joseph can bring on Groot of our and dan Jack

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Speaker 2: Taylor with half an hour also of the game gone.

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Speaker 4: It's clearly something that's behind as they'd seen there. I

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Speaker 4: put my fantasy rugby team in a bit of jeopardy

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Speaker 4: because I had Ethan the group in there, and I

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Speaker 4: am leading the Rugby Direct competition just to slide down

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Speaker 4: in there. But look, the Harness scrum has been the

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Speaker 4: best across the competition.

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Speaker 3: All.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they've obviously struggled, but they've got the most penalties

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Speaker 4: from that platform. And maybe Jamie Joseph wanted to target

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Speaker 4: rackety Stones and look they got the pay from it,

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Speaker 4: and then didn't they bring in those to grout and

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Speaker 4: tarvo on. So you'd have to say smart decision at

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Speaker 4: work for them. It didn't win them the game. But

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Speaker 4: when you've got a weapon like that, you do everything

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Speaker 4: you can to utilize it. I'm not sure about the

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Speaker 4: rules of the logistics of those late changes when you

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Speaker 4: name a team on a Thursday and pulling a bit

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Speaker 4: of a swifty later in the match or pre match.

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Speaker 4: Maybe he's taking a leaf from Russia Rasmus's book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I didn't like it because the end. Look,

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Speaker 2: you can't predict these things, but the Hurricanes were twenty

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Speaker 2: one mil up, twenty eight seven up at that point

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Speaker 2: in the game was gone. Yes you've got a powerful scrum,

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Speaker 2: and yes they had better scrummages than rackety Stones in

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Speaker 2: coming up against you know, weaker opponents, and Tavita Baffaloo potentially,

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Speaker 2: but the game was done, so you've given yourself a

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Speaker 2: twenty one nil head start to the opposition. So look,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a little bit cute from Jammie.

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Speaker 2: Joseph didn't really like it and don't think it necessarily

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Speaker 2: paid off because they were chasing the game at that point.

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Speaker 2: Mauana Pacifica going down to the Reds. This was a

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Speaker 2: heartbreaker from a Moaner perspective, thirty three to thirty one

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Speaker 2: and final home game at North Harbor Stadium. Look, they

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Speaker 2: were up for it, Mauana Pacifica, no doubt about that.

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Speaker 2: They came back from what twenty eight to seven down rallied.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was pretty impressive the way they did

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Speaker 2: come back from that deficit, but just let themselves a

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Speaker 2: little bit too much work to do.

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Speaker 4: It was a great comeback, wasn't it. And it was

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Speaker 4: interesting because you thought one's last home game probably in history,

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Speaker 4: with their franchise likely to fold at the end of

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Speaker 4: the year, a lot on the line, with a lot

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Speaker 4: of people, everyone potentially moving on the coaching staff and

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Speaker 4: a number of players who have already signed for rival franchises.

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Speaker 4: The last time game at home you'd think that ten

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Speaker 4: or that emotion at the start, but maybe it was

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Speaker 4: about overwhelming and they certainly found their feats and the

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Speaker 4: second half came back and raddled the Reds and through

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Speaker 4: some real physicality in their defense. I think in attacking

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Speaker 4: the breakdown they had some success there.

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Speaker 3: But then yeah, up death.

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Speaker 4: Fortunate for Wine it would have been really nice for

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Speaker 4: them to potentially finish on that note. I think it

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Speaker 4: also says a lot about where the Reds are at.

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Speaker 4: Very patchy performance from them. They were largely at full strength.

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Speaker 4: Carter Gordon was goods but I just can't see any

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Speaker 4: of these Australian teams genuinely challenging come playoff time.

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Speaker 3: So unfortunate for one, isn't it? That could be it

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Speaker 3: for them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Brumbies this weekend, but look, we still haven't heard

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Speaker 2: anything about the future of this team, and the longer

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Speaker 2: it goes on, the less likely it appears that they

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Speaker 2: will be rescued. It seems to have gone very quiet

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Speaker 2: on that front. So look, they're going to try and

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Speaker 2: rally and get up for a tricky game against the

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Speaker 2: Brumbies in Canberra, and the Brumbies have potentially something to

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Speaker 2: play for in terms of that playoff seeding by the

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Speaker 2: time they get to Saturday afternoon. So look, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: just feel feel for the players, for the coaches. I

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Speaker 2: think Tara among has been very honest around this whole thing.

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Speaker 2: He was very good again last week when he spoke

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Speaker 2: to media. But it doesn't feel like there's any rescue

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Speaker 2: coming to save more one up Pascificer.

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Speaker 4: No, and it's hugely unfortunate for the purpose of that team,

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Speaker 4: the purpose that it was meant to help Samoa and Tonga.

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Speaker 4: But it's just incredibly difficult to see some form of

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Speaker 4: white Knight coming in to save them and having longevity

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Speaker 4: around that in terms of not just next year, but

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Speaker 4: projecting throughout the next five years and some sensibility for

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Speaker 4: Super Rugby. So look, I've heard a number of those

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Speaker 4: guys have already been picked up, a couple by the

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Speaker 4: handas sounds like Michael fire Lungy will go to Japan

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Speaker 4: and a few others aboard as well, and obviously tana

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Speaker 4: Umong is joining the All Blacks. But you know, they've

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Speaker 4: still got a pretty hearty group, even if it was

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Speaker 4: small of fans there at the weekend in Albany. So

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Speaker 4: it's a real shame that that franchise hasn't worked to

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Speaker 4: this point.

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Speaker 2: It is indeed, and on Friday night Crusaders beating the

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Speaker 2: Chiefs thirty six thirty two in christ Church an absolute

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Speaker 2: thriller of a Super rugby match. Look, there's been some

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Speaker 2: great games this year. This was another one and it

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Speaker 2: was tip for tat right until the very end. And

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Speaker 2: it's hard not to look at that twenty two twenty

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Speaker 2: two or fifty twenty two from David Villy and go boy,

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Speaker 2: that is a match winning kick, you know, just under pressure,

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Speaker 2: pulled something out of nothing. And you know his team

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Speaker 2: later on, just despite the fact they didn't get the

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Speaker 2: line out, go on and win with him scoring the

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Speaker 2: winning try, cracking game under the roof in christ Church

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Speaker 2: and the Crusaders keep alive there their bid for home

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Speaker 2: playoff in week one.

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Speaker 4: Our magic game, wasn't it, Elliott? Probably the match of

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Speaker 4: the year. That might be recency bias, but I had

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Speaker 4: a bit of everything. And the Crusaders and Chiefs have

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Speaker 4: a long standing recent rivalry, don't they. The Crusader's now

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Speaker 4: winning three in a row against the Chiefs, including last

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Speaker 4: year's final. They went to Hamilton earlier this year and

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Speaker 4: scored thirty six on ancer points. I think that was

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Speaker 4: in a round two just done the Chiefs then, and

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Speaker 4: I'm still trying to work out how they actually won

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Speaker 4: that game, because the Chiefs was supremely dominant in so

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Speaker 4: many aspects, particularly upfront with their powerful ball carrying semis

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Speaker 4: Ony Takyajo Wallace a TC and others really getting them

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Speaker 4: on the front foots and providing that platform. They pressured

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Speaker 4: the Crusaders lineouts, particularly in the first half, and their

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Speaker 4: swarming defense was another aspect that really came to the fore.

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Speaker 4: But look, the Crusaders, I think it's just that character,

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Speaker 4: isn't it. They seem to be on the rack a

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Speaker 4: number of times and then they would just summon the

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Speaker 4: CounterPunch and just stay within reach. And that's what happened

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Speaker 4: at the death as well. I think the Chiefs will

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Speaker 4: rue I think it was Josh Shacob one costly late era,

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Speaker 4: and obviously they didn't have Damien McKenzie. But David Heavily

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Speaker 4: I think he hasn't had a great season, but that

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Speaker 4: was an outstanding performance all around. There was one instance

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Speaker 4: when he held up one of the Chiefs ball carriers

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Speaker 4: almost single handedly to get a turnover. He had a

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Speaker 4: hand in the number of tries and then really stepped

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Speaker 4: up at the death, didn't they so too with that

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Speaker 4: fifty twenty two. It was a good seventy meter kick

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Speaker 4: and then he scored the try to boots and I

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Speaker 4: think that could be the victory that gets the Crusader's

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Speaker 4: home advantage, Elliott. So in the context of Super Rugby Pacific,

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Speaker 4: it was a massive result.

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Speaker 2: It was, and you're right, I tend to agree the

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Speaker 2: Crusaders just hung tough and sometimes you've got to do

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Speaker 2: that because they were outplayed certainly for the first forty

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Speaker 2: to fifty minutes of the game. That's, you know, the

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Speaker 2: Chiefs of score, the Crusaders would score, the Crusaders had score,

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Speaker 2: the Chiefs would score, and everything the Crusaders did, it

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Speaker 2: felt like the Chiefs had an answer to it. The

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Speaker 2: Crusaders had more entries into the Chiefs twenty two, came

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Speaker 2: away with a few points on average from each entry,

287
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Speaker 2: but they just managed to stick in the contest. That's

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Speaker 2: despite the line out being a bit of a shambles

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Speaker 2: for the Crusaders. Cody Taylor had an off night potentially,

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Speaker 2: although the hooker always gets blamed when the line out

291
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Speaker 2: doesn't get functioning. I know that Rob Penny said late

292
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Speaker 2: on that because they had Cody Taylor and Manel Miller

293
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Speaker 2: led you out in the park that Cody Taylor was

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Speaker 2: supposed to have thrown that last line out that they

295
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Speaker 2: botched before Jacob knocked it on. They got a little

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Speaker 2: bit rattled in those last couple of minutes they took

297
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Speaker 2: that bizarre shot at goal as well. Yet in spite

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Speaker 2: of everything, they just found a way. And sometimes that's

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Speaker 2: what you got to do, not only in the regular

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Speaker 2: season but crucially liam with the playoffs to come as well.

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Speaker 2: You got to hang tough and find your moments when

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Speaker 2: they when they open up.

303
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Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's about coming up clutch when it matters most

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Speaker 4: the Chiefs did that earlier this year knocking over the

305
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Speaker 4: Hurricanes in Hamilton.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, you've just got to do what it takes.

307
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Speaker 4: And like you said, the Crusaders were outplayed in a

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Speaker 4: number of different aspects, but they still had a number

309
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Speaker 4: of individual performances. I thought Lester, while he was penalized

310
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Speaker 4: a couple of times at the breakdown, was prominent agame

311
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Speaker 4: with ball on hands. Jamie Hannah continues to be mister

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00:17:06,973 --> 00:17:10,613
Speaker 4: consistent for the Crusaded seven Reefs. His best performance of

313
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Speaker 4: the year was highly involved on the edge. Will Jordan

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Speaker 4: I thought had a bit of a muted return and

315
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Speaker 4: potentially a flare up of that carpentery.

316
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Speaker 3: Again, how concerning is that?

317
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Speaker 2: It is concerning. Look, they've managed to find a way

318
00:17:23,013 --> 00:17:26,413
Speaker 2: to win without him in the last few weeks against

319
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Speaker 2: the Blues, they went close, against the Hurricanes, obviously didn't

320
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Speaker 2: win that game, won against the war Retars without him,

321
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Speaker 2: because that had been the big question mark, can they

322
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Speaker 2: win games without Will Jordan because the evidence was stacking

323
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Speaker 2: up and saying that they couldn't. I think it is

324
00:17:39,053 --> 00:17:41,653
Speaker 2: a big loss for them. Waiting to hear hopefully some

325
00:17:41,693 --> 00:17:45,853
Speaker 2: details later on today around the nature of that injury.

326
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Speaker 2: But you know, Johnny mcnicholl has slotted in. He played

327
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Speaker 2: on the wing for a lot of that game on

328
00:17:52,333 --> 00:17:55,773
Speaker 2: the weekend, scored a couple of tries. He's a serviceable option.

329
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Speaker 2: He's looking a bit old in the two th old

330
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Speaker 2: Johnny mcnichkell, but you know he brings experience to the

331
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Speaker 2: back and with Shae Fie Hackey there, I think it's

332
00:18:04,493 --> 00:18:06,693
Speaker 2: a better settled back three if you've got free Hackey

333
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Speaker 2: alongside mcnichkell, even if you do lose Will Jordan, but

334
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Speaker 2: hopefully for the sake of the competition more than anything,

335
00:18:12,173 --> 00:18:15,173
Speaker 2: and obviously all Blacks aspirations that injury is not too

336
00:18:15,213 --> 00:18:17,413
Speaker 2: bad and maybe we see him for the first week

337
00:18:17,413 --> 00:18:20,013
Speaker 2: of the playoffs and whoever they manage to match up

338
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Speaker 2: against them.

339
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

340
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Speaker 4: Absolutely, Look, I think while Will doing wasn't it at

341
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Speaker 4: as best, he did show touches of class. There was

342
00:18:27,733 --> 00:18:31,933
Speaker 4: that one long ball skip pass for McNichols seconds and

343
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Speaker 4: I think he is integral to sparking that Crusades attack.

344
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Speaker 4: So maybe he doesn't play this week and that they

345
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Speaker 4: try and get him back for the playoffs, obviously a

346
00:18:41,173 --> 00:18:44,093
Speaker 4: big match with the Canes to determine home advantage in

347
00:18:44,173 --> 00:18:44,733
Speaker 4: third place.

348
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Speaker 3: Also, just Christian Leo where there.

349
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Speaker 4: I thought he's been outstanding in recent weeks, highly involved,

350
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Speaker 4: great work, ethic, ball carrying, line out, defense, really.

351
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Speaker 3: Does it all.

352
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Speaker 4: Certainly from a super rugby perspective, at that level, he's

353
00:19:00,333 --> 00:19:01,253
Speaker 4: an elite player.

354
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Speaker 2: He is indeed, Look, the knock has probably been his size,

355
00:19:04,333 --> 00:19:07,013
Speaker 2: but he doesn't let you down and this is work right,

356
00:19:07,093 --> 00:19:09,413
Speaker 2: This is what Dave Rinnie is keen on and he

357
00:19:09,573 --> 00:19:12,293
Speaker 2: is just everywhere on a rugby field when he's playing.

358
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Speaker 2: And he had a weird old years last year. You

359
00:19:15,573 --> 00:19:17,773
Speaker 2: know you got what the two or three opportunities in

360
00:19:17,773 --> 00:19:19,533
Speaker 2: that French series off the top of my head. Then

361
00:19:20,013 --> 00:19:23,533
Speaker 2: wasn't seen again right until the very end of the year,

362
00:19:23,693 --> 00:19:26,013
Speaker 2: wasn't used particularly well, came in and out of the

363
00:19:26,013 --> 00:19:28,893
Speaker 2: All Blacks set up. Wouldn't surprise there's a lot of

364
00:19:28,893 --> 00:19:31,573
Speaker 2: competition for loose four places, but wouldn't surprise me to

365
00:19:31,613 --> 00:19:35,053
Speaker 2: see maybe his time come again. Maybe a bench in

366
00:19:35,133 --> 00:19:36,693
Speaker 2: back roll. I don't know what will say you.

367
00:19:37,933 --> 00:19:41,933
Speaker 4: Yeah, potentially he's probably I think in the Anton Segna camp,

368
00:19:42,653 --> 00:19:46,413
Speaker 4: but around being on the fringe looking in at the stage.

369
00:19:46,453 --> 00:19:49,853
Speaker 4: But if you continue to put those consistent performances out there,

370
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Speaker 4: you keep your name in the frame. The loose forwards

371
00:19:52,133 --> 00:19:55,973
Speaker 4: is tough, isn't it so stacked? And when there's others

372
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Speaker 4: make you say perhaps with a bit more size and physicality.

373
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Speaker 4: I think that's that's really valued come test rugby level.

374
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Speaker 4: But it's going to be a big year for the

375
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Speaker 4: All Black's going to use plenty of players and he's

376
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Speaker 4: certainly putting himself in the frame.

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Speaker 2: Indeed he is quick break and we're back with more

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Speaker 2: after this on Rugby Direct. You're back with Rugby Direct.

379
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Speaker 2: Time now for the final four for Rugby topics. Leam

380
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Speaker 2: the Highland of season is over because they've got the

381
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Speaker 2: buy this weekend. Rate it out of ten? Was it

382
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Speaker 2: an improvement on last year? Yes?

383
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Speaker 3: Or not?

384
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Speaker 4: Look, they're probably going to finish what won maybe two

385
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Speaker 4: spots higher than the wooden spoon they had last year.

386
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Speaker 4: I don't think there's a great case to say that

387
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Speaker 4: they've overly improved. They lost Fabian Hollins, Dylan Pledger and

388
00:20:42,293 --> 00:20:45,613
Speaker 4: a couple of others throughout the season, but I haven't

389
00:20:45,653 --> 00:20:48,213
Speaker 4: seen enough to say that they actually did improve, so

390
00:20:49,493 --> 00:20:50,933
Speaker 4: a lot of work to do. It sounds like it's

391
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Speaker 4: going to be a massive turnover again, both in the

392
00:20:53,053 --> 00:20:56,613
Speaker 4: coaching staff and the playing ranks, which worries me. You

393
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Speaker 4: do want to have some form of cohesion to build

394
00:20:59,093 --> 00:21:03,733
Speaker 4: year on year. I don't think changing half your roster works.

395
00:21:03,813 --> 00:21:07,093
Speaker 4: That takes a couple of years to come together. Takes

396
00:21:07,093 --> 00:21:11,413
Speaker 4: a while for players to to gel, to come together

397
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Speaker 4: with new systems, So I have some big concerns about

398
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Speaker 4: sothern franchise and how they rebuild, how they improve, and

399
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Speaker 4: I'm not seeing enough under Jamie Joseph to say that

400
00:21:22,533 --> 00:21:25,013
Speaker 4: they are justistically improving. The scrum was their real weapon,

401
00:21:25,653 --> 00:21:27,853
Speaker 4: but I think they've struggled to get the best from

402
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Speaker 4: their attack and a season that started with a massive

403
00:21:30,413 --> 00:21:34,733
Speaker 4: win over the Crusaders sort of been largely downhill ever since,

404
00:21:34,813 --> 00:21:35,213
Speaker 4: isn't it.

405
00:21:35,213 --> 00:21:37,413
Speaker 2: It has been, And I think they have gone They're

406
00:21:37,413 --> 00:21:39,133
Speaker 2: going to finish higher than last year, but I almost

407
00:21:39,173 --> 00:21:43,293
Speaker 2: think they've gone backwards compared to last year. Last year

408
00:21:43,333 --> 00:21:45,813
Speaker 2: they came close to piping the Hurricanes on a couple

409
00:21:45,853 --> 00:21:49,133
Speaker 2: of occasions. Now, the Hurricanes obviously better this year, but

410
00:21:49,133 --> 00:21:52,333
Speaker 2: they've been tanked both times against them, and their performances

411
00:21:52,373 --> 00:21:55,893
Speaker 2: this year. They were close on a number of occasions

412
00:21:56,053 --> 00:21:58,733
Speaker 2: against New Zealand teams last year. They think the Crusaders

413
00:21:58,773 --> 00:22:03,133
Speaker 2: they lost by three in christ Church in twenty twenty five,

414
00:22:03,133 --> 00:22:05,253
Speaker 2: and yes they beat them this year, but they were

415
00:22:05,293 --> 00:22:07,573
Speaker 2: a lot closer, it felt like, to winning those big

416
00:22:07,613 --> 00:22:11,213
Speaker 2: games last year in twenty twenty five. This year they've

417
00:22:11,213 --> 00:22:14,133
Speaker 2: picked up wins against teams that they'll probably be expected

418
00:22:14,173 --> 00:22:16,173
Speaker 2: to win, but the fall and off in those games

419
00:22:16,173 --> 00:22:18,813
Speaker 2: against New Zealand franchises. Look as you said, no Pleager,

420
00:22:18,853 --> 00:22:22,653
Speaker 2: No Holland has affected them big time. They struggle with

421
00:22:22,693 --> 00:22:26,213
Speaker 2: their recruitment, but I just don't know that they're being

422
00:22:26,253 --> 00:22:27,933
Speaker 2: coached to play a game plan that's going to win

423
00:22:27,973 --> 00:22:30,613
Speaker 2: them enough games. So yeah, I think a step backwards

424
00:22:30,613 --> 00:22:32,453
Speaker 2: for them last year. I'm going to give them a

425
00:22:32,493 --> 00:22:35,973
Speaker 2: four out of ten. The question number two interesting question.

426
00:22:36,173 --> 00:22:38,453
Speaker 2: If you of the Hurricanes and the Chiefs locked into

427
00:22:39,013 --> 00:22:42,733
Speaker 2: spots one and two respectively, do you rest players this

428
00:22:42,813 --> 00:22:45,933
Speaker 2: week or do you keep them ticking over with game

429
00:22:45,973 --> 00:22:48,013
Speaker 2: time ahead of the Super Rugby playoffs.

430
00:22:49,253 --> 00:22:51,533
Speaker 4: I think there's a discussion to be had around the

431
00:22:51,573 --> 00:22:56,933
Speaker 4: trade offs between momentum, combinations cohesion in terms of retaining

432
00:22:57,893 --> 00:23:01,253
Speaker 4: and promoting players you starting teams, and it could be

433
00:23:01,293 --> 00:23:05,613
Speaker 4: different for different players. Maybe the Chiefs want to get

434
00:23:05,653 --> 00:23:07,693
Speaker 4: Damien McKenzie back in the mix. I'm sure he'll be

435
00:23:07,773 --> 00:23:11,493
Speaker 4: keen missing that match last week, and I think, well

436
00:23:11,533 --> 00:23:12,813
Speaker 4: Josh Jacob.

437
00:23:12,813 --> 00:23:15,853
Speaker 3: Slotted some crucial points off the tee.

438
00:23:16,213 --> 00:23:19,773
Speaker 4: Wasn't his best performance, so I think mackenzie definitely needs

439
00:23:19,773 --> 00:23:22,213
Speaker 4: to start at ten for the Chiefs, whether that's this week.

440
00:23:22,173 --> 00:23:23,453
Speaker 3: Or in the playoffs. Not too sure.

441
00:23:25,133 --> 00:23:27,773
Speaker 4: I am ninety nine percent certain that the Hurricanes will

442
00:23:27,813 --> 00:23:30,533
Speaker 4: rest our Mass this week. I think there's not a

443
00:23:30,573 --> 00:23:34,893
Speaker 4: lot for them to gain in the midst of potential

444
00:23:34,933 --> 00:23:39,213
Speaker 4: what is it, thirteen game stretch, and I think we're

445
00:23:39,213 --> 00:23:41,253
Speaker 4: starting to see elements of fatigue. There's a number of

446
00:23:41,253 --> 00:23:43,453
Speaker 4: guys there that have played big minutes. You look at Warner,

447
00:23:43,533 --> 00:23:48,333
Speaker 4: Durns and a number of others. I can see them

448
00:23:48,373 --> 00:23:51,173
Speaker 4: resting on Mass, which would be a big advantage for

449
00:23:51,173 --> 00:23:53,533
Speaker 4: the Crusaders as they chase three. I'm not too sure

450
00:23:53,733 --> 00:23:58,213
Speaker 4: about the Chiefs. Maybe they might have a more blended approach.

451
00:23:58,333 --> 00:24:00,653
Speaker 4: Having suffered that defeat in christ Chips, they might want

452
00:24:00,693 --> 00:24:05,773
Speaker 4: to right some wrongs and get some improvements. They haven't

453
00:24:05,773 --> 00:24:09,813
Speaker 4: had the runner matches like the Hurricanes have had either.

454
00:24:10,733 --> 00:24:12,733
Speaker 4: So I think the Hurricanes rest our Mass, and I

455
00:24:12,733 --> 00:24:15,253
Speaker 4: think the Chiefs a wee bit more tactical when it

456
00:24:15,253 --> 00:24:15,613
Speaker 4: comes to it.

457
00:24:15,693 --> 00:24:17,253
Speaker 2: Whatever you yeah, I think I think you've got it

458
00:24:17,333 --> 00:24:19,933
Speaker 2: on the hit the nail on the head there, Liam.

459
00:24:20,253 --> 00:24:23,493
Speaker 2: I think if you're the Hurricanes, you pretty much roll

460
00:24:23,533 --> 00:24:27,813
Speaker 2: out bad team, give players opportunities that maybe haven't had it.

461
00:24:27,973 --> 00:24:29,933
Speaker 2: Can Roygard's an interesting question, do you try and give

462
00:24:30,013 --> 00:24:31,773
Speaker 2: him twenty off the bench this week, just to make

463
00:24:31,813 --> 00:24:35,573
Speaker 2: sure he's fighting fit for next week in the opening

464
00:24:35,613 --> 00:24:38,813
Speaker 2: week of the playoffs. That could be something they potentially

465
00:24:39,253 --> 00:24:42,213
Speaker 2: look at. It sounded like he's recovered from the injury

466
00:24:42,293 --> 00:24:44,173
Speaker 2: and maybe could have played on the weekend, but there's

467
00:24:44,173 --> 00:24:48,293
Speaker 2: no need to risk him otherwise. I think that you

468
00:24:48,413 --> 00:24:51,013
Speaker 2: change on mass. Jordi Barrett was the latest scratching on

469
00:24:51,053 --> 00:24:53,893
Speaker 2: the weekend due to a tight hamstring. Give it another

470
00:24:53,933 --> 00:24:56,093
Speaker 2: week to get right and make sure they're fighting fit,

471
00:24:56,173 --> 00:24:59,493
Speaker 2: especially because they've got the Friday game in week one

472
00:25:00,133 --> 00:25:01,933
Speaker 2: and these things. You know, because I've got a seven

473
00:25:01,973 --> 00:25:04,373
Speaker 2: day turnaround against the Crusaders, but you know they're going

474
00:25:04,413 --> 00:25:06,693
Speaker 2: to start the campaign on a Friday night. I think

475
00:25:06,733 --> 00:25:08,413
Speaker 2: you reached some of those players and make sure they

476
00:25:08,413 --> 00:25:11,693
Speaker 2: don't need to play minutes that they don't need to

477
00:25:12,613 --> 00:25:14,813
Speaker 2: this week. Interested to see what Clark Ladel does. He

478
00:25:14,853 --> 00:25:16,853
Speaker 2: did mention. I think I mentioned it last week that

479
00:25:16,893 --> 00:25:19,813
Speaker 2: they've got a run of eleven straight weeks potentially to

480
00:25:19,813 --> 00:25:22,053
Speaker 2: win the comp If they do so, this serves as

481
00:25:22,053 --> 00:25:25,293
Speaker 2: a perfect opportunity to try and rest a few faces.

482
00:25:25,333 --> 00:25:28,373
Speaker 2: Topic three. The European Cup goes the way of Borto

483
00:25:28,493 --> 00:25:32,253
Speaker 2: Begler for back to back years. The French now have

484
00:25:32,333 --> 00:25:37,093
Speaker 2: won six straight European Champions Cup and really just underlining,

485
00:25:37,133 --> 00:25:41,413
Speaker 2: aren't they the impressive nature of the top fourteen and

486
00:25:41,933 --> 00:25:46,173
Speaker 2: it status as the world's best domestic rugby competition.

487
00:25:47,533 --> 00:25:50,333
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I don't think there's any denying that, and not

488
00:25:50,373 --> 00:25:53,493
Speaker 4: only in the quality of their team's performances, but just

489
00:25:53,613 --> 00:26:00,773
Speaker 4: the crowds supports the depth the money it's thriving over

490
00:26:00,773 --> 00:26:02,853
Speaker 4: there and it definitely flies under the radar from a

491
00:26:02,973 --> 00:26:06,453
Speaker 4: New Zealand perspective because we don't see a lot of it.

492
00:26:06,453 --> 00:26:08,173
Speaker 3: It's in a very different time zone.

493
00:26:09,053 --> 00:26:14,013
Speaker 4: But that was an extremely dominant performance from Bordeaux smacking

494
00:26:14,173 --> 00:26:18,573
Speaker 4: Leinster in the final and I think sending quite a

495
00:26:18,613 --> 00:26:21,413
Speaker 4: bit of a shockwave through Irish rugby and and some

496
00:26:21,453 --> 00:26:24,453
Speaker 4: real question mark has been asked about where Leinster are

497
00:26:24,493 --> 00:26:27,333
Speaker 4: ats and the evolution that they need to be made

498
00:26:27,493 --> 00:26:31,373
Speaker 4: that needs to be made there. Riqulwane I saw he

499
00:26:31,453 --> 00:26:34,973
Speaker 4: copped a four from ten in some player ratings, so

500
00:26:35,373 --> 00:26:38,253
Speaker 4: that was his last match of his medical stint up there.

501
00:26:38,293 --> 00:26:40,173
Speaker 4: I'm sure he enjoyed his time and great for him

502
00:26:40,213 --> 00:26:44,893
Speaker 4: to play in the European Final. But yeah, I think

503
00:26:44,973 --> 00:26:48,773
Speaker 4: the overall assessment of his time up there is not

504
00:26:49,173 --> 00:26:53,733
Speaker 4: overly favorable, particularly coming after Jordi Barrett's elite six months

505
00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:57,333
Speaker 4: stint there. And I know you will call me bias Elliott,

506
00:26:57,333 --> 00:27:01,453
Speaker 4: but I think the way in which Bordeaux play, just

507
00:27:01,493 --> 00:27:06,453
Speaker 4: their attacking style, it's quite unstructured, the freedom, the movement

508
00:27:06,573 --> 00:27:09,333
Speaker 4: the ball with I think it's great for rugby, and

509
00:27:09,573 --> 00:27:12,133
Speaker 4: when we bring that closer to home and the way

510
00:27:12,133 --> 00:27:14,613
Speaker 4: the Hurricanes are playing, I think it's great for the

511
00:27:14,653 --> 00:27:18,533
Speaker 4: game that we're seeing these styles, these kind of type

512
00:27:18,533 --> 00:27:23,453
Speaker 4: of teams, attacking minded teams be successful because at Test

513
00:27:23,573 --> 00:27:29,013
Speaker 4: rugby it's often defense dominated, it's kick heavy, teams.

514
00:27:28,693 --> 00:27:30,093
Speaker 3: Are happy to play without the ball.

515
00:27:30,293 --> 00:27:34,733
Speaker 4: So to see these teams thriving and being successful, admittedly

516
00:27:35,013 --> 00:27:38,813
Speaker 4: at a domestic level, I think that gives hope for

517
00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:42,133
Speaker 4: the type of entertaining rugby that most fans want to see.

518
00:27:42,213 --> 00:27:46,213
Speaker 2: I agree completely. And Test rugby has been refereed for

519
00:27:46,253 --> 00:27:48,893
Speaker 2: the last decade or so, perhaps since the twenty fifteen

520
00:27:48,893 --> 00:27:53,293
Speaker 2: World Cup in a way that is not rugby positive,

521
00:27:53,333 --> 00:27:55,933
Speaker 2: I would argue, but it's great to see teams that

522
00:27:55,973 --> 00:27:59,893
Speaker 2: you've at domestic level still willing to play an enterprising

523
00:27:59,973 --> 00:28:02,693
Speaker 2: brand of rugby. I mean the French national team do

524
00:28:02,773 --> 00:28:07,173
Speaker 2: play that style as well, but it feels like international

525
00:28:07,253 --> 00:28:10,013
Speaker 2: rugby has gone down a path that is, you know,

526
00:28:10,093 --> 00:28:12,973
Speaker 2: not rugby positive, as I said, So it's good to

527
00:28:12,973 --> 00:28:18,653
Speaker 2: see that domestically, that that teams like that can still thrive. Yeah,

528
00:28:18,733 --> 00:28:21,893
Speaker 2: very very good season for Bordo Begler claiming that title

529
00:28:21,933 --> 00:28:25,253
Speaker 2: over Leinster. Topic number four, back to Super Rugby. Here,

530
00:28:25,373 --> 00:28:28,933
Speaker 2: look a wee bit of reported around the shape of

531
00:28:28,973 --> 00:28:31,253
Speaker 2: next year's competition. We touched on the winder before. It

532
00:28:31,253 --> 00:28:33,573
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like they'll be rescued, So we're looking at

533
00:28:33,573 --> 00:28:37,013
Speaker 2: a ten team comp and that's sort of being reported

534
00:28:37,013 --> 00:28:40,653
Speaker 2: that maybe we're looking at conferences back again in Super Rugby.

535
00:28:41,693 --> 00:28:43,093
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, no no.

536
00:28:43,133 --> 00:28:45,613
Speaker 4: I don't want in a bar of any conferences Elliott's

537
00:28:45,653 --> 00:28:50,773
Speaker 4: and I can hear the Australians now pushing for guaranteed

538
00:28:50,813 --> 00:28:55,333
Speaker 4: represent representation in the playoffs and I just don't want

539
00:28:55,333 --> 00:28:58,613
Speaker 4: to borrow that. Conferences and Super Rugby have been a

540
00:28:58,693 --> 00:29:02,333
Speaker 4: shambles and they've undermined the credibility of the competition. So

541
00:29:03,013 --> 00:29:05,093
Speaker 4: I think for me, ten teams it should be a

542
00:29:05,093 --> 00:29:08,013
Speaker 4: simple format. It should be round robin, keep it clean,

543
00:29:08,133 --> 00:29:13,093
Speaker 4: keep simple, give the fans something that they can follow easily,

544
00:29:13,333 --> 00:29:16,573
Speaker 4: and you know you should come to a head with

545
00:29:16,693 --> 00:29:19,333
Speaker 4: one in the coming week, so just get on with it.

546
00:29:19,613 --> 00:29:22,213
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't say I like conferences either. I think,

547
00:29:22,813 --> 00:29:24,573
Speaker 2: to be honest, I think it actually did work when

548
00:29:24,573 --> 00:29:27,333
Speaker 2: there were fifteen teams in Super Rugby and you had

549
00:29:28,053 --> 00:29:31,733
Speaker 2: clearly demarketed South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and you take

550
00:29:31,773 --> 00:29:33,493
Speaker 2: the top three from each and yeah, there was a

551
00:29:33,493 --> 00:29:37,533
Speaker 2: bit of grumbling over home positions and teams that were

552
00:29:37,933 --> 00:29:40,133
Speaker 2: well done the ladder in terms of an overall ladder

553
00:29:40,173 --> 00:29:42,333
Speaker 2: finishing in third or second or whatever it might be.

554
00:29:42,373 --> 00:29:45,053
Speaker 2: But there was some stock to that because there were

555
00:29:45,253 --> 00:29:48,013
Speaker 2: fifteen teams in the competition and you could probably understand

556
00:29:48,053 --> 00:29:50,413
Speaker 2: it a bit of balance across the board. Then it

557
00:29:50,453 --> 00:29:54,653
Speaker 2: got bloated to eighteen. There were different divisions feeding into

558
00:29:54,693 --> 00:29:57,933
Speaker 2: conferences and it didn't make any sense whatsoever. Now you're

559
00:29:57,933 --> 00:30:00,853
Speaker 2: down to ten. Look, I just don't see the benefit

560
00:30:00,893 --> 00:30:04,373
Speaker 2: of it. We've seen the Australian struggle in Super Rugby.

561
00:30:04,613 --> 00:30:07,933
Speaker 2: It's hard to see them winning this year. Automatic places

562
00:30:07,973 --> 00:30:10,413
Speaker 2: for them in a playoffs, even to the point potentially

563
00:30:10,413 --> 00:30:13,973
Speaker 2: of maybe two semi final teams will only serve to

564
00:30:14,093 --> 00:30:17,333
Speaker 2: turn fans off Rugby and Super Rugby more. You know,

565
00:30:17,373 --> 00:30:19,773
Speaker 2: you think of this year, Say it's the Hurricanes and

566
00:30:19,853 --> 00:30:21,813
Speaker 2: Chiefs in top and then it's the Brumbies and Reds

567
00:30:21,853 --> 00:30:24,853
Speaker 2: topping the Australian Conference and there is your final four. Well,

568
00:30:24,893 --> 00:30:27,613
Speaker 2: the Blues and Crusaders miss out. What does that do

569
00:30:27,733 --> 00:30:31,133
Speaker 2: to the integrity of the competition. I think it would

570
00:30:31,213 --> 00:30:33,413
Speaker 2: turn off more New Zealand fans at a time were

571
00:30:33,413 --> 00:30:38,733
Speaker 2: they're already struggling to retain New Zealand viewership. I just

572
00:30:38,773 --> 00:30:42,413
Speaker 2: think it's an idea that benefits Australia and Australian only.

573
00:30:42,493 --> 00:30:44,853
Speaker 2: And if Super Rugby got any clue, they will firmly

574
00:30:44,893 --> 00:30:45,373
Speaker 2: reject it.

575
00:30:46,413 --> 00:30:49,013
Speaker 4: Yes, it's about the integrity of the competition, Elliott. Isn't

576
00:30:49,053 --> 00:30:53,133
Speaker 4: it reward the best teams throughout the regular season? I

577
00:30:53,173 --> 00:30:56,253
Speaker 4: think you chip away at the credibility of a competition

578
00:30:56,333 --> 00:31:01,773
Speaker 4: when you start messing with the finals formats purely.

579
00:31:01,453 --> 00:31:03,653
Speaker 3: To satisfy broadcaster's needs.

580
00:31:03,813 --> 00:31:06,093
Speaker 4: Essentially, that's what it is to try and retain interest

581
00:31:06,173 --> 00:31:09,613
Speaker 4: in one country when on a table.

582
00:31:09,733 --> 00:31:10,613
Speaker 3: They don't deserve it.

583
00:31:10,733 --> 00:31:14,173
Speaker 4: So it's about putting the pressure on Australia and saying

584
00:31:14,333 --> 00:31:17,573
Speaker 4: step up or you don't make the cup. That's what

585
00:31:17,613 --> 00:31:20,373
Speaker 4: fans want to see. They don't want to see the

586
00:31:20,413 --> 00:31:23,693
Speaker 4: integrity being undermined. So keep it simple, keep it clean

587
00:31:24,453 --> 00:31:25,813
Speaker 4: and keep it easy to follow.

588
00:31:25,893 --> 00:31:28,093
Speaker 2: Steve Lancaster said with us on the podcast that you

589
00:31:28,133 --> 00:31:31,093
Speaker 2: know Australia is vital to the future of Super Rugby

590
00:31:31,133 --> 00:31:34,013
Speaker 2: and a non negotiable of their presence if this goes through,

591
00:31:34,093 --> 00:31:37,973
Speaker 2: then if I'm Steph Lancaster, I'm seriously reconsidering what we

592
00:31:38,013 --> 00:31:40,253
Speaker 2: do with our domestic competitions in this country because I

593
00:31:40,253 --> 00:31:43,173
Speaker 2: think it would really harm Super Rugby more than it

594
00:31:43,173 --> 00:31:44,053
Speaker 2: and it benefits it.

595
00:31:45,373 --> 00:31:48,213
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there's major challenges for this competition right now,

596
00:31:48,253 --> 00:31:51,933
Speaker 4: isn't that. I don't think a conference model is going

597
00:31:51,973 --> 00:31:54,293
Speaker 4: to help retain interest on the whole in the short

598
00:31:54,373 --> 00:31:57,813
Speaker 4: term and from a relationship perspective it might work, but

599
00:31:58,693 --> 00:32:00,573
Speaker 4: you're not putting the fan first with that with that

600
00:32:00,653 --> 00:32:01,333
Speaker 4: kind of format.

601
00:32:01,453 --> 00:32:03,773
Speaker 2: No, you're not right. Let's get into our MVP voting

602
00:32:03,813 --> 00:32:06,613
Speaker 2: on Rugby Direct Fiji. Finny Young and awf is out

603
00:32:06,613 --> 00:32:10,173
Speaker 2: on front on sixteen can regards on ten, Lestifying Noku

604
00:32:10,213 --> 00:32:13,813
Speaker 2: and Warner Durns tied third equal on nine. Liam, your

605
00:32:13,813 --> 00:32:17,373
Speaker 2: three two ones, please, Well, it was pretty tough this week.

606
00:32:17,413 --> 00:32:19,613
Speaker 4: I thought there are a number of your performances as

607
00:32:19,613 --> 00:32:21,493
Speaker 4: we've touched on, but I am going to go David

608
00:32:21,533 --> 00:32:26,413
Speaker 4: Heavily for three just because of his match turning efforts

609
00:32:26,453 --> 00:32:30,013
Speaker 4: at the backer that match Lucas Casey, I'm going to

610
00:32:30,013 --> 00:32:35,773
Speaker 4: give two, I think, just to step it up again

611
00:32:36,413 --> 00:32:41,013
Speaker 4: after really showing his talents against the Chiefs, came up

612
00:32:41,053 --> 00:32:44,533
Speaker 4: against some other former All Blacks, well not formal current

613
00:32:44,533 --> 00:32:47,973
Speaker 4: All Blacks, and Peter Lucky and Braden Joss who hasn't

614
00:32:47,973 --> 00:32:49,613
Speaker 4: made the All Blacks but it's been playing bloody well

615
00:32:49,613 --> 00:32:52,573
Speaker 4: and Devin Flanders and scored another couple of tries.

616
00:32:53,013 --> 00:32:54,413
Speaker 3: Had one de night as you mentioned.

617
00:32:54,493 --> 00:32:57,693
Speaker 4: I thought he was in everything, so, you know, really

618
00:32:57,693 --> 00:33:01,213
Speaker 4: putting his case boards and a team that struggled this year,

619
00:33:02,293 --> 00:33:05,933
Speaker 4: and I'm going to go one two. I'm going to

620
00:33:06,013 --> 00:33:08,933
Speaker 4: go Christian Lea, where I tossed up couple of others,

621
00:33:08,933 --> 00:33:11,253
Speaker 4: but I thought that was his best performance of the year.

622
00:33:11,253 --> 00:33:13,453
Speaker 3: He was everywhere for the Crusaders. So here's my three

623
00:33:13,533 --> 00:33:14,933
Speaker 3: two one two weeks.

624
00:33:14,693 --> 00:33:17,733
Speaker 2: In a row. You've given Crusaders multiple points. This is

625
00:33:17,773 --> 00:33:20,453
Speaker 2: special to see. Just feels like you're jumping on the

626
00:33:20,493 --> 00:33:24,453
Speaker 2: Crusaders bandwagon. Maybe I'm giving on the Hurricanes train and

627
00:33:24,453 --> 00:33:25,773
Speaker 2: feels like we're just coming together here.

628
00:33:26,453 --> 00:33:29,333
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm killing you with kindness before really putting the

629
00:33:29,333 --> 00:33:31,853
Speaker 4: boot in for your semi final exit that's looming.

630
00:33:31,893 --> 00:33:33,573
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

631
00:33:34,213 --> 00:33:37,093
Speaker 2: David Heavily gets my three as well. Look, he was

632
00:33:37,133 --> 00:33:39,973
Speaker 2: impressive right across the pipe. But when you kick like

633
00:33:40,093 --> 00:33:43,453
Speaker 2: that to turn the nature of the game, you get

634
00:33:43,493 --> 00:33:46,253
Speaker 2: three points from me. Josh Morby gets my two. Could

635
00:33:46,253 --> 00:33:48,453
Speaker 2: have gone it to any number of players in that game,

636
00:33:48,973 --> 00:33:51,973
Speaker 2: but I thought he was excellent once again. And look,

637
00:33:51,973 --> 00:33:53,653
Speaker 2: I don't know if the All Blacks windows closed on

638
00:33:53,773 --> 00:33:56,173
Speaker 2: Josh Morby necessarily, but I do like the kind of

639
00:33:56,213 --> 00:33:58,613
Speaker 2: player that he is. He can play on the wing,

640
00:33:58,693 --> 00:34:00,893
Speaker 2: he can play at fullback as well. He seems to

641
00:34:00,933 --> 00:34:04,493
Speaker 2: have benefited from that time away in France. Just liking

642
00:34:04,533 --> 00:34:07,973
Speaker 2: the look of what he's doing this year. And similarly,

643
00:34:08,413 --> 00:34:11,013
Speaker 2: young player but doing well Isac Hutchison gets my one.

644
00:34:11,053 --> 00:34:15,373
Speaker 2: The Chiefs fullback. He's very very green. But I just

645
00:34:15,493 --> 00:34:19,053
Speaker 2: like the kind of player profile that he's offering. So

646
00:34:19,093 --> 00:34:21,133
Speaker 2: those are my three two before I let you go, Lee,

647
00:34:21,133 --> 00:34:22,773
Speaker 2: and you mentioned Lucas Casey. I think I may have

648
00:34:22,813 --> 00:34:24,333
Speaker 2: asked you this last week. I'm going to ask it again,

649
00:34:24,373 --> 00:34:27,373
Speaker 2: but is he in the All Blacks mix? Especially his

650
00:34:27,533 --> 00:34:30,373
Speaker 2: size and the fact that he can play seven, he

651
00:34:30,373 --> 00:34:33,573
Speaker 2: can play obviously eight as well. Would he be in

652
00:34:33,573 --> 00:34:36,093
Speaker 2: the conversation for you at this point? You do you

653
00:34:36,213 --> 00:34:36,973
Speaker 2: need to see more?

654
00:34:38,413 --> 00:34:39,493
Speaker 3: I think we'd like to see more.

655
00:34:39,533 --> 00:34:42,893
Speaker 4: It's unfortunate that behind the season's finished that doesn't help

656
00:34:42,933 --> 00:34:47,173
Speaker 4: his case and come finals time, that's where you can

657
00:34:47,213 --> 00:34:50,453
Speaker 4: really sway the selector's performances. We saw that with Wallace

658
00:34:50,493 --> 00:34:53,493
Speaker 4: a TC what was it two years ago now basically

659
00:34:53,493 --> 00:34:56,853
Speaker 4: playing his way into that team the All Blacks on

660
00:34:56,933 --> 00:34:59,613
Speaker 4: the back of his performance in a semi final victory

661
00:34:59,653 --> 00:35:03,253
Speaker 4: for the Chiefs in Wellington. I think Lucas Casey is

662
00:35:03,373 --> 00:35:05,933
Speaker 4: firmly in that conversation. Would like to see more, but

663
00:35:06,173 --> 00:35:08,373
Speaker 4: it's going to be a big year. I think his

664
00:35:08,373 --> 00:35:12,573
Speaker 4: his sized profile, of his age, his versatility, his work

665
00:35:12,613 --> 00:35:16,933
Speaker 4: creates got to be considered and look, at this point,

666
00:35:17,293 --> 00:35:19,333
Speaker 4: I would potentially have him on the plane to South Africa.

667
00:35:19,773 --> 00:35:22,933
Speaker 4: I think he could mature very rapidly in the next

668
00:35:23,013 --> 00:35:26,453
Speaker 4: couple of years, and we've seen him step up rapidly

669
00:35:26,493 --> 00:35:30,573
Speaker 4: from provincial rugby to super rugby. I don't think you're

670
00:35:30,573 --> 00:35:32,413
Speaker 4: going to lose anything by giving him a crack at

671
00:35:32,413 --> 00:35:34,173
Speaker 4: the next level anytime soon.

672
00:35:34,253 --> 00:35:35,653
Speaker 3: So I think he's firmly on that frame.

673
00:35:35,733 --> 00:35:37,333
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's got to be. I agree with you.

674
00:35:37,413 --> 00:35:40,013
Speaker 2: South Africa looms is a big opportunity for him, maybe

675
00:35:40,013 --> 00:35:43,613
Speaker 2: some midweek games giving him the chance to experience your

676
00:35:43,653 --> 00:35:46,853
Speaker 2: black's environment. Don about July necessarily, but I would love

677
00:35:46,893 --> 00:35:48,853
Speaker 2: to see him on that plane to South Africa. If

678
00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:52,733
Speaker 2: he can plays a few club games down in Otago,

679
00:35:53,253 --> 00:35:55,853
Speaker 2: Danetan club Rugby might get the best of him over

680
00:35:55,893 --> 00:35:58,813
Speaker 2: the next few weeks. To keep those Rugby reps going, Liam,

681
00:35:58,853 --> 00:36:01,413
Speaker 2: thank you. As always, we'll touch base a bit later

682
00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:03,693
Speaker 2: on in the week for another edition of Rugby Directs.

683
00:36:04,493 --> 00:36:10,133
Speaker 4: Indeed, potentially another interesting interview looming. So yeah, keep you

684
00:36:10,173 --> 00:36:12,893
Speaker 4: ears tuned and we'll keep you entertained.

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00:36:13,093 --> 00:36:16,413
Speaker 2: Alabats Albats Rugby Directed News Talk zb dot co dot

686
00:36:16,413 --> 00:36:19,453
Speaker 2: inz to get in touch Mark Kelly, our executive producer,

687
00:36:19,493 --> 00:36:22,213
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688
00:36:22,373 --> 00:36:23,693
Speaker 2: stay in the game.

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00:36:27,533 --> 00:36:30,493
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