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Speaker 1: Now Middle East leaders will be watching today because Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is meeting Benjamin Netanyahu in the White House ten

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Speaker 1: thirty out time. On the cards the ceasefire deal with Gaza,

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Speaker 1: of course, the ceasefire deal with Iran. Former National security

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Speaker 1: advisor to Trump, John Bolton joins me.

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Speaker 2: Now, morning, John, Good afternoon. I'm glad to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Do you hold any hopes for those negotiations between Israel

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Speaker 1: and Hamas that are underway.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, Well, I don't think so, although the

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Speaker 2: meeting between net Yahoo and Trump, which will be later

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Speaker 2: in the afternoon here on Monday, Washington time, could tell

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Speaker 2: us something. But Hamas's objectives are to get Israel out

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Speaker 2: of guys entirely. Israel's objectives are to destroy Hamas as

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Speaker 2: a military and political force. There's no compromise there.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Israel's objectives now also include clearing the

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Speaker 1: place out?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's moving in that direction, and I

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Speaker 2: think it really requires everybody who's concerned to think about

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Speaker 2: what we're going to do with the guys in population.

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Speaker 2: I think rebuilding a high rise refugee camp wouldn't solve anything.

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Speaker 2: It would just lay the basis for a new October

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Speaker 2: the seventh, and perhaps ten percent of the Gazan population

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Speaker 2: has already exited the Gaza strip. That means there's a

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Speaker 2: long way to go. But I think I think we

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Speaker 2: have to be thinking about from a humanitarian point of view,

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Speaker 2: what's the best place for the Gazans to go?

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Speaker 1: What do you think the best place is not Gaza?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's never going to be a two

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Speaker 2: state solution after October seven. I think people need to

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Speaker 2: abandon that dream and to think what is the best

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Speaker 2: thing for the people of Gaza and their children. And

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Speaker 2: you know, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees has never

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Speaker 2: forcibly repatriated anybody anywhere, But there are also no permanent

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Speaker 2: High Commissioner for Refugees refugee camps, and I think if

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Speaker 2: they were put in charge of the situation rather than UNRA,

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Speaker 2: which is the UN agencies that's been dealing with the

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Speaker 2: Palestinians since nineteen forty eight, that there might be a

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Speaker 2: better chances for a humane solution for the gas and people.

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Speaker 1: Where would you take them if you took them elsewhere?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's going to take a period of

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Speaker 2: time to decide where they go. I think Egypt is

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Speaker 2: very concerned that a lot of the people in Gaza

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Speaker 2: are still Hamas. They regard the Egyptians regard Hamas correctly

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Speaker 2: as a subsidiary of the Muslim brotherhood, which they had

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Speaker 2: to deal with in Egypt. That's part of the problem.

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Speaker 2: This Hamas domination in Gaza has been a curse to

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Speaker 2: the gods and people, and we're going to have to

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Speaker 2: think about ways to deal with that before they can

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Speaker 2: be humanely resettled.

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Speaker 1: Could they go to the Waist Bank, Well.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a possibility, but you'd have to work

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Speaker 2: that out between Jordan and Israel. I think in addition

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Speaker 2: to Egypt, which after all, has a population of ninety million,

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Speaker 2: there are a number of other countries where they could

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Speaker 2: go if their safety can be guaranteed, and if they're

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Speaker 2: not going to carry the Hamas ideology with them.

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Speaker 1: If a two state solution is no longer viable, what's

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Speaker 1: the next best solution?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you have to treat the problem of

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Speaker 2: Gaza separately from the problem of the West Bank, and

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Speaker 2: there are changes happening on the West Bank now. The

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Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal reported this morning in the US that

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Speaker 2: a number of shakes from the Hebron region want to

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Speaker 2: be done with the Palestinian authority. They want to deal

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Speaker 2: with they and their tribes want to deal with Israel independently.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of changing going on in the Middle

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Speaker 2: East now, and I think people need to catch up

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Speaker 2: with it. I think if you look at the West

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Speaker 2: Bank as a separate problem, there's a better chance for

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Speaker 2: Israel and Jordan to work out some kind of relationship

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Speaker 2: that would give everybody something that's that's that would satisfy them.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think the Israel Iran ceasefire was a mistake.

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Speaker 2: Because I don't think President Trump's statement about total obliteration

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Speaker 2: to the contrary, not with state the job was done.

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Speaker 2: I think the combined Israeli US air strikes did an

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Speaker 2: awful lot of damage to the program, but it's a

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Speaker 2: complex operation and there's still a lot more to be

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Speaker 2: done to save really the world from this threat of

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Speaker 2: nuclear proliferation. Iran is not just an Israeli problem. It's

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Speaker 2: an American problem. It's a problem for everybody that doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to see the spread of nuclear weapons, because that's

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Speaker 2: what the iotolas are aiming at.

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Speaker 1: Do you basically think that they were so significantly damaged

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Speaker 1: that they had an Iran no option, but a ceasefire.

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Speaker 1: So actually, when you have them at that point, you

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Speaker 1: should you should just keep going.

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Speaker 2: I think absolutely we should keep going. The more damage

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Speaker 2: you inflict, the harder it is for them to get

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Speaker 2: the nuclear program up and running again, and the safer

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Speaker 2: the world is from this threat of nuclear proliferation.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Pete higgsifth knows what.

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Speaker 2: He's doing, not particularly. I mean, I think he is

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Speaker 2: still in jeopardy of lou using his job as Secretary

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Speaker 2: of Defense. He may have moved to second place in

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Speaker 2: the category of next departure from the administration, and maybe

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Speaker 2: Telsey Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, has replaced him,

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Speaker 2: but I think heg Seth's job is still in jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: And so what Trump's just keeping an eye on him.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think he's waiting for an opportune moment. Trump

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Speaker 2: hates to admit that he's made a bad decision, although

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Speaker 2: he's made a lot of them. So maybe it will

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Speaker 2: be in August when Congress goes in recess and it's

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Speaker 2: very hot and humid in Washington and the media take

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Speaker 2: their vacations. Maybe both Gabbard and heg Seth Go in August.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, look the meeting today which you mentioned at

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Speaker 1: the stop BB and Trump. What do you think we

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Speaker 1: get out of this?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there are going to be two big subjects.

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Speaker 2: One is Iran and the nuclear weapons program and whether

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Speaker 2: the Iyatolas should be allowed to remain in power. The

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Speaker 2: other is Gaza. I think Trump really really wants Nobel

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Speaker 2: Peace Prize and he's decided, having failed to bring peace

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Speaker 2: between Ukraine and Russia, maybe this is the place to

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Speaker 2: get it. So I think there could be some pretty

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Speaker 2: tough discussions at this dinner.

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Speaker 1: John, listen, thank you very much for your time to

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Speaker 1: appreciate its John Bolton, former National Security Advisor. For more

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Speaker 1: from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.

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