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Speaker 1: Now the Comments Commission, as we've discussed in the show,

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Speaker 1: reckons the Keywis pay about one billion dollars a year

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Speaker 1: on payWave and online credit card fees, and the ComCom

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Speaker 1: wants to cap the fees. Reckons it could save key

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Speaker 1: Wes two hundred and fifty million dollars of that billion

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Speaker 1: every single year. Brad Olson is Infametrix principle economist day

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Speaker 1: Brad good evening. High time for a crackdown, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Well, it seems to be. I mean, to be fair,

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Speaker 2: I sort of thought we went through it. It's a

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Speaker 2: year or two back when all of our credit card

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Speaker 2: earning options got slashed back and there was all this

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Speaker 2: talk of greater regulation, But I certainly haven't seen it

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Speaker 2: going around the place. Every time you go to pay

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Speaker 2: for something, I've got to figure out which of the

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Speaker 2: cards in my wallet I can use as which one's

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Speaker 2: going to charge me the most? You know, which hand

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Speaker 2: written sign at the CAFA L restaurant I I have

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Speaker 2: to pay. And I think the challenges is that, having

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Speaker 2: been around the world quite a lot so far this year,

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Speaker 2: we do seem to be a lot more backwards in

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Speaker 2: our thinking around payment systems. You know, many other parts

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Speaker 2: of the world you struggle to see a card these

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Speaker 2: days because people are using their phones or just tap

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Speaker 2: their watches or whatever. In New Zealand, you're trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out if you're using your f cost you didbit

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Speaker 2: your credit which one and all of that I think

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Speaker 2: creates you know, greater productivity challenges and cost for kiwis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So is there going to be Are there going

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Speaker 1: to be any unintended I'm always I'm always reluctant to

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Speaker 1: go in for regulation unless it really is warranted, right,

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Speaker 1: because of things that can happen as a result. Is

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Speaker 1: there any unintended consequence that I'm not seeing here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a fair question to ask, you know.

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Speaker 2: You know, one of the payment providers has already said, look,

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Speaker 2: you know, they don't think it will be particularly useful.

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Speaker 2: They talk about all of the things that they've already funded,

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Speaker 2: the fact that you know, we've got good network reliability,

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Speaker 2: you know, some of the anti fraud measures that they

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Speaker 2: bring in, the fact that often you can get you know,

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Speaker 2: a fair bit of your money back if you are scammed.

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Speaker 2: That's important. I don't think that we should lose it

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Speaker 2: though the idea here isn't that you make no money

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Speaker 2: at all from these transactions, is that you bring it

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Speaker 2: down a bit, so maybe businesses can absorb that cost

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Speaker 2: better and provide that sort of option out there Kiwi.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I think there are some unintended consequences, But

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Speaker 2: I really do struggle with the idea that the rest

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Speaker 2: of the world can do this and New Zealand can't.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we're a little bit too small, but it really

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Speaker 2: does seem like a big point of stration. It's not

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Speaker 2: business's fault, you know. They often point out they would

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Speaker 2: love to be able to provide that convenient option through

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Speaker 2: to kiwis, but it costs them and they've got to

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Speaker 2: somehow pass that on. But like I say, I'm really

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Speaker 2: a little bit almost surprised and confused. I thought we

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Speaker 2: had this conversation a few years ago, we decided we'd

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Speaker 2: do something about it. Nothing really seems we've changed as

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Speaker 2: Get on.

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Speaker 1: Let me explain to you what happened a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago. The law passed a couple of years ago

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Speaker 1: that gave them the possiblity, gave them the options, gave

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Speaker 1: them the tools. This is the Commis Commission to be

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Speaker 1: able to do this right, and I think they kind

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Speaker 1: of put everybody on notice and they were expecting some

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Speaker 1: sort of voluntary conduct, you know, and then nothing changed,

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Speaker 1: and so now they're taking the steps to actually force it.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that basically why you feel like you're having the

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Speaker 1: same conversation wise.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's definitely part of it. I think

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Speaker 2: it's also because there are so many flipping fees across

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Speaker 2: the place, so I mean back a couple of years back.

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Speaker 2: The first thing I think the change is what they

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Speaker 2: call the interchange fees that has come down. But now

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Speaker 2: that this sort of proposal they're looking at is what

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Speaker 2: I understand is around the schemes fee, so goodness knows

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Speaker 2: how many other sort of hidden things there that are

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Speaker 2: down there. But it does seem to be a bit

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Speaker 2: of a mirror go around. I'm certainly not feeling as

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Speaker 2: a consumer like we get a good deal out of it.

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Speaker 2: Local businesses don't feel like they're getting a good deal

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Speaker 2: out of it. So it does seem like it's high

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Speaker 2: time to do something about. Brad.

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Speaker 1: Good to talk to you, mate, as always really appreciated.

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Speaker 1: That's Brad Olson infa metric principle economist

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