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Speaker 1: More benefit sanctions come in today for those not meeting

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Speaker 1: their requirements. Payment cards being introduced. They can only be

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Speaker 1: used to approve retailers. Minister for Social Development and Employment

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Speaker 1: Louise Upstein back with us. Good morning, Good morning to you, Mike.

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Speaker 1: So today's new sanctions. Was this always part of the

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Speaker 1: bigot picture or has this come out of leftish field.

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Speaker 2: No, this was one of the plans we had coming

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Speaker 2: into the campaign to have additional non financial sanctions and

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Speaker 2: to make sure that those on welfare fulfill their obligations.

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Speaker 1: What do you gain by doing this, Well, we.

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Speaker 2: Ensure that those who are receiving welfare are taking the

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Speaker 2: steps they need to to help themselves find a job,

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Speaker 2: and that there's clear consequences when they don't.

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Speaker 1: Right, is this just job the people looking for jobs

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Speaker 1: or is this welfare generally? And if it's just welfare generally,

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Speaker 1: what will they have not done to get this particular sanction.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've got a target to reduce the number of

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Speaker 2: people on job seeker benefits, so I do focus on

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Speaker 2: job seekers first, but it does apply more broadly and

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Speaker 2: these are really common sense things that help people find

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Speaker 2: a job. Turn up to MSD, turn up to a

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Speaker 2: job interview, have a CV, take a job if it's offered.

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Speaker 1: Is it a punishment? I mean you're still getting the

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Speaker 1: same amount of money, it's just you can't go spend

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Speaker 1: it on booze, on vaping.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a different it's a different type of punishment,

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Speaker 2: and it's non financial. And look, at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, we want more people to be taking the

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Speaker 2: steps they need to to find a job. So actually

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Speaker 2: they're practical and common sense, and we want to see

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Speaker 2: fewer people on welfare and more people in work.

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Speaker 1: Are you wandering into people's personal rights at this particular

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Speaker 1: point in time if they're not doing you know, you're

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Speaker 1: saying you can't go here, you can't shop there. You

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Speaker 1: starts a fairly delicate ground, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: No, definitely not. They have a choice. They receive welfare

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Speaker 2: from other taxpayers, so they have obligations to take certain steps.

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Speaker 2: So absolutely I reject that this is trampling on their rights.

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Speaker 2: If they don't want to have these consequences, all they

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Speaker 2: have to do is comply with their obligations. It's pretty simple.

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Speaker 1: How many people on the light system, and of those people,

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Speaker 1: how many people do you think will end up on

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Speaker 1: this sort of particular punishment.

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Speaker 2: Well, in terms of the traffic light system, the great

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Speaker 2: news is that ninety eight percent are on green and

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Speaker 2: only one point two are in red, So less than

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Speaker 2: four thousand people are in red, which means they face consequences.

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Speaker 2: That's a very small number.

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Speaker 1: Whacking them again, is that going to help you, reckon

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Speaker 1: or are they just beyond help?

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Speaker 2: Well, we just want them to take things, take the

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Speaker 2: steps that we believe will help them get closer towards

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Speaker 2: a job. So they're simple, they're practical, and they will

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Speaker 2: help themselves as they take these steps.

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Speaker 1: Through shout at Luiz Almson, Minister for Social Development and Employment.

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Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 1: news Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow

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