WEBVTT - The Resident Builder podcast: September 22, 2024 0:00:06.855 --> 0:00:10.055 You're listening to the Resident build Up podcast with Peter 0:00:10.135 --> 0:00:12.055 Wolfcamp from News Talks at Bay. 0:00:13.775 --> 0:00:19.015 Even when it's dark, even when the grass is overgrown 0:00:19.135 --> 0:00:22.775 in the yard, even when. 0:00:22.615 --> 0:00:24.815 The dog is too old to bar. 0:00:26.335 --> 0:00:29.375 And when you're sitting at the table trying not to 0:00:29.535 --> 0:00:36.335 start have scissor hole, even when weave a band gone, 0:00:37.295 --> 0:00:52.335 even when you're there alone, house is a hole. 0:00:52.655 --> 0:00:56.095 Even when there's ghost Even. 0:00:55.895 --> 0:00:59.255 When you got around from the world, you let your most. 0:01:00.455 --> 0:01:04.015 You scream those broken plaints feeling from the wood. 0:01:05.775 --> 0:01:15.215 Locals when they're gone, leaving them, even when we bene 0:01:16.215 --> 0:01:18.335 even when you're in their alone. 0:01:27.095 --> 0:01:29.535 Well, a very good morning and welcome along to the 0:01:29.575 --> 0:01:32.335 Resident Builder on Sunday. My name is Pete worf Camp, 0:01:32.415 --> 0:01:36.335 the Resident Builder, and this is an opportunity to discuss, debate, 0:01:37.815 --> 0:01:40.175 just have a good old chin wag really about all 0:01:40.255 --> 0:01:43.175 things building and construction, which is pretty much what I've 0:01:43.215 --> 0:01:45.575 been doing for the last a couple of days or so. 0:01:46.415 --> 0:01:51.975 I've been in Wellington and as attending in fact MCing 0:01:52.175 --> 0:01:57.375 the New Zealand Institute of Building annual conference happened to 0:01:57.415 --> 0:02:01.055 be their thirtieth anniversary as well, so spending time with 0:02:01.295 --> 0:02:05.215 their members and delegates at the conference, And obviously when 0:02:05.255 --> 0:02:08.255 you go to a cons about building surveying, you tend 0:02:08.255 --> 0:02:10.655 to talk a lot about building. So a whole bunch 0:02:10.735 --> 0:02:14.375 of new ideas floating around inside the Noggan sort of 0:02:14.815 --> 0:02:18.215 an opportunity to catch up with industry experts, and that's 0:02:18.255 --> 0:02:22.815 what building surveyors are to talk about changes to the legislation, 0:02:23.095 --> 0:02:25.575 things that they see. Had a chance to chat with 0:02:25.815 --> 0:02:29.055 a gentleman by the name of Philo Sullivan, who if 0:02:29.095 --> 0:02:31.615 you recall all of the discussion around the leaky buildings, 0:02:31.695 --> 0:02:34.215 who and his company and his brothers who were very 0:02:34.295 --> 0:02:36.855 much at the forefront of pointing out, hey, look these 0:02:36.895 --> 0:02:40.215 things are going to be a problem. And you know, 0:02:40.295 --> 0:02:42.775 now sort of in semi retirement and all, I don't 0:02:42.775 --> 0:02:44.495 think you can quite let go of it. You know, 0:02:44.535 --> 0:02:47.055 a wealth of information, a wealth of knowledge, a real 0:02:47.575 --> 0:02:50.295 depth of perspective. If you've been engaged with us for 0:02:50.295 --> 0:02:54.295 forty years, you've got sort of long term view of 0:02:54.655 --> 0:02:57.455 what the industry looks like, what some of the challenges are. 0:02:57.695 --> 0:03:01.775 So anyway, a great couple of days in well actually beautiful, beautiful, 0:03:01.815 --> 0:03:05.975 beautiful day in Wellington yesterday. But we'll talk about Wellington 0:03:06.415 --> 0:03:09.855 ter on right. So if you've got a question, because 0:03:09.895 --> 0:03:12.935 I've now got a head full of new information, eight 0:03:13.095 --> 0:03:16.255 hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call anything 0:03:16.255 --> 0:03:21.255 that relates to building construction, getting projects done. Projects perhaps 0:03:21.255 --> 0:03:23.935 that didn't quite go the way that you were hoping 0:03:23.975 --> 0:03:26.175 that they would go. We can talk about that on 0:03:26.255 --> 0:03:29.655 the show this morning. Now a slightly different format to 0:03:29.695 --> 0:03:32.655 the program this morning. I may have mentioned last week 0:03:32.695 --> 0:03:34.935 that a couple of days prior to that, I had 0:03:34.935 --> 0:03:37.855 the opportunity to spend an hour here in the studio 0:03:38.095 --> 0:03:43.015 with the new Minister for Housing and Building and Construction, 0:03:43.695 --> 0:03:46.775 the Honorable Chris Pink. I'd reached out to his office 0:03:46.775 --> 0:03:49.495 to say, look, new minister, lots of new ideas, lots 0:03:49.495 --> 0:03:52.975 of talk at the moment around building and construction. Could 0:03:52.975 --> 0:03:55.455 I please get an interview with the minister? And their 0:03:55.495 --> 0:03:57.975 response was yeah, sure, Chris, we'll come into the studio 0:03:58.375 --> 0:04:01.375 on a Thursday afternoon and you guys can chat, which 0:04:01.415 --> 0:04:03.575 is exactly what we did. So that interview that I 0:04:03.615 --> 0:04:07.215 recorded last week i'll play after or between seven and 0:04:07.295 --> 0:04:10.855 eight this morning. It's fairly lengthy. The intention for the 0:04:10.895 --> 0:04:15.015 interview was that we had an opportunity to kind of 0:04:15.055 --> 0:04:18.975 stretch our legs and talk about a whole number of issues, 0:04:19.455 --> 0:04:22.055 and there are a lot I mentioned yesterday at the 0:04:22.055 --> 0:04:25.175 conference that I genuinely can't think of a time in 0:04:25.215 --> 0:04:27.655 the last ten certainly in the last ten years since 0:04:27.655 --> 0:04:32.575 I've been doing this program where the political aspect of 0:04:32.655 --> 0:04:37.775 building and building legislation has been as prominent as it 0:04:37.855 --> 0:04:41.615 is at the moment. So lots of discussion around sixty 0:04:41.615 --> 0:04:45.055 square meter granny flats without necessarily requiring a building consent, 0:04:45.455 --> 0:04:48.975 talk about changing parts of the Building Act to allow 0:04:49.335 --> 0:04:53.415 for We had a discussion around what's the difference between 0:04:53.415 --> 0:04:57.735 minor variations, amended consents and now minor adjustments. I think 0:04:57.815 --> 0:04:59.775 is a new thing that the Minister wants to introduce, 0:04:59.815 --> 0:05:03.335 particularly for multiproof. We got on talking about councils. We 0:05:03.415 --> 0:05:07.375 talked about joint and several liability. We talked about H 0:05:07.535 --> 0:05:10.855 one changes. This is probably the most topical of all 0:05:10.895 --> 0:05:14.375 of the discussion points that we wanted to touch on, 0:05:15.055 --> 0:05:16.975 so that will be in the next hour of the program. 0:05:17.015 --> 0:05:19.375 Which is also my way of suggesting that if you've 0:05:19.375 --> 0:05:21.895 got a question, you better get your skates on. Give 0:05:21.935 --> 0:05:23.935 me a call right now. Oh eight hundred and eighty 0:05:24.015 --> 0:05:28.015 ten eighty will take calls this hour. We'll do the 0:05:28.055 --> 0:05:30.815 interview with Chris Penk, the Minister, in the next hour, 0:05:30.855 --> 0:05:33.095 and then we'll continue with calls until we talk to 0:05:33.655 --> 0:05:36.695 climb Past. When I get here in the mornings, typically 0:05:36.695 --> 0:05:40.015 I log into my email. I have to say that 0:05:40.055 --> 0:05:42.415 the common theme and the emails for me this morning 0:05:42.455 --> 0:05:44.895 getting in here is can you please send me some 0:05:44.935 --> 0:05:48.415 plans for an oil box? Yes, I will work out 0:05:48.495 --> 0:05:50.415 some way that I can do that. I might have 0:05:50.455 --> 0:05:53.335 to redraw my hastily drawn sketch of what I ended 0:05:53.415 --> 0:05:56.095 up building, but I will try and get that underway 0:05:56.135 --> 0:05:59.055 and have those ready for you by next week. Righty oh, 0:05:59.175 --> 0:06:02.575 it's your opportunity to talk about all things building construction 0:06:02.695 --> 0:06:05.575 projects that have started that, like I say, I didn't 0:06:05.655 --> 0:06:07.815 quite go the way that you wanted them to. My 0:06:07.935 --> 0:06:09.975 thanks to a bunch of people that have emailed with 0:06:10.135 --> 0:06:12.375 thoughts on a few topics that we had last week 0:06:12.415 --> 0:06:16.455 around spouting and roofing and those sorts of things. Really 0:06:16.535 --> 0:06:19.615 appreciate your emails, but right now it is time to talk. 0:06:20.055 --> 0:06:22.535 Eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. 0:06:22.735 --> 0:06:25.415 So eight hundred eighty ten eighty you can text as 0:06:25.455 --> 0:06:28.175 well nine to nine two and if you'd like to 0:06:28.215 --> 0:06:31.255 send me an email, it is Pete at newstalksb dot 0:06:31.335 --> 0:06:35.175 co dot NZ. So Pete at newstalksb dot co dot 0:06:35.215 --> 0:06:39.535 in said, Pete, did you watch the All Blacks? They 0:06:39.575 --> 0:06:42.815 won again? Only just I didn't. Actually I don't have 0:06:42.855 --> 0:06:45.775 Sky right, so I don't get to watch the games live. 0:06:46.575 --> 0:06:49.775 But while I was cruising through the supermarket and starting 0:06:49.815 --> 0:06:53.415 to cook dinner, I had iHeartRadio on so I could 0:06:53.415 --> 0:06:55.935 listen to the game while I was circling through the 0:06:55.935 --> 0:06:59.495 supermarket and cooking dinner, and thought, Oh, this is going 0:06:59.575 --> 0:07:02.935 to be a regular old downtrow, isn't It didn't quite 0:07:03.055 --> 0:07:04.575 end up that way when I checked the herall before 0:07:04.615 --> 0:07:08.175 I went to bed, a little bit closer than we expected, right, Oat, 0:07:08.215 --> 0:07:10.415 But we're not here to talk sport. I don't mind 0:07:10.415 --> 0:07:11.975 talking sport, but no, we're not going to do that 0:07:12.015 --> 0:07:14.055 today on the show. We are here to talk all 0:07:14.175 --> 0:07:17.295 things building and construction. Be great to have your calls. 0:07:17.375 --> 0:07:20.015 Let's do it now. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty 0:07:20.175 --> 0:07:23.335 is the number your new talks there'd be. Pete wolf Camp, 0:07:23.535 --> 0:07:25.855 isn't builder with you this morning? Little bit Kroakie. It's 0:07:25.975 --> 0:07:30.295 been a weekend of or week of conversation. So as 0:07:30.335 --> 0:07:32.695 I mentioned in Wellington yesterday in the New Zealand Institute 0:07:32.695 --> 0:07:38.935 of Building Surveys conference, so fairly extensive discussion. Well annual 0:07:38.935 --> 0:07:42.815 general meeting yesterday. Conference on Friday with a bunch of speakers. 0:07:44.295 --> 0:07:46.735 And the great thing with going to these types of 0:07:46.775 --> 0:07:49.055 conferences this one other ones that I've been invited to 0:07:49.095 --> 0:07:53.775 over the years, is the quality of the speakers. So 0:07:54.415 --> 0:07:59.375 had some just outstanding presentations on Friday which was really 0:07:59.455 --> 0:08:03.175 quite cool, including as it happens, Karen Reid, former All 0:08:03.175 --> 0:08:07.135 Black Captain, came to talk and then had some panel 0:08:07.175 --> 0:08:08.895 discussion with a couple of young people who are part 0:08:08.935 --> 0:08:10.815 of the Keystone Trust, and we talk to them a 0:08:10.895 --> 0:08:13.775 couple of weeks ago, so I kind of see the 0:08:13.855 --> 0:08:15.495 sense in these things. I've never been part of a 0:08:15.535 --> 0:08:18.255 corporate life, so I don't really do the whole going 0:08:18.255 --> 0:08:21.935 to conference every year type thing. But when you get 0:08:21.975 --> 0:08:23.975 an opportunity to sort of have a bit of a 0:08:24.015 --> 0:08:27.375 refresh and the introduction of new ideas makes a lot 0:08:27.375 --> 0:08:29.215 of sense. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eight years 0:08:29.215 --> 0:08:34.295 that I'm going to call Yes, I'll just deal with 0:08:34.295 --> 0:08:39.175 this text quickly, Pete. The Minister is on record of 0:08:39.215 --> 0:08:44.615 promoting BCA's building consent authorities no longer undertaking physical building inspections. Pete, 0:08:44.695 --> 0:08:47.655 I've been building twenty years. There is no way complicated 0:08:47.695 --> 0:08:51.855 elements can be illustrated in detail with photographs, physical inspections 0:08:51.895 --> 0:08:55.575 and sure quality control and enables the BCA to identify 0:08:55.735 --> 0:08:59.855 work that's non compliant or needs improvements. In some cases, 0:08:59.855 --> 0:09:02.415 I take photographs of a few elements for a fire 0:09:02.495 --> 0:09:05.215 engineer during big jobs where they have confidence based on 0:09:05.295 --> 0:09:08.655 many site inspections. The Minister on TV has made it 0:09:08.695 --> 0:09:11.015 clear that he thought this would be more efficient for 0:09:11.135 --> 0:09:14.735 the BCA and for progress based on common sense and experience, 0:09:14.815 --> 0:09:18.375 I believe another disaster if adopted. Great show, Pete, listen 0:09:18.415 --> 0:09:21.095 every Sunday. Very nice of you to call. In fact, 0:09:21.095 --> 0:09:23.495 we do talk about that with the Minister, so that'll 0:09:23.495 --> 0:09:26.135 be in the next hour. I think it's going to 0:09:26.135 --> 0:09:30.615 be maybe slightly more nuanced as it happens at the 0:09:30.855 --> 0:09:33.695 conference over the weekend. I also hadn't chance to talk 0:09:33.775 --> 0:09:37.975 to a couple of council building inspectors and lead building 0:09:38.015 --> 0:09:40.535 inspectors and to get their take on it. As well, 0:09:40.535 --> 0:09:42.815 and I'll unpack that a little bit more for you 0:09:43.215 --> 0:09:45.215 in just a moment. Right now, it's your chance to 0:09:45.255 --> 0:09:47.615 have your say and to ask questions. Eight hundred and 0:09:47.615 --> 0:09:50.015 eighty ten eighties the number Joanna A very good morning, 0:09:51.655 --> 0:09:52.415 Hello Joanna. 0:09:53.495 --> 0:10:04.735 Oh good morning, Yes, hello Pete. I have used a 0:10:04.935 --> 0:10:09.495 rusing person to spray for like an and moss on 0:10:09.615 --> 0:10:13.615 my concrete tiles over the years, and I had it 0:10:13.735 --> 0:10:19.895 done recently and they are now telling me I have 0:10:20.095 --> 0:10:24.775 cracks in the concrete joints along the ridge lines that 0:10:24.855 --> 0:10:30.975 are holding me yes styles on And I'm just wondering 0:10:31.175 --> 0:10:38.895 whether is that sort of work common. The house is 0:10:39.095 --> 0:10:41.695 about twenty years old. 0:10:42.135 --> 0:10:48.135 Oh okay, yeah, because things move, right, Our houses move 0:10:48.215 --> 0:10:53.215 and settle over time. Typically, mortar is not terribly flexible. 0:10:54.775 --> 0:10:59.175 Saying that, yeah, I mean there is new additives that 0:10:59.215 --> 0:11:03.215 are elements to mortar today that we might use for 0:11:03.495 --> 0:11:06.815 what we call pointing of ridge caps and hip cat 0:11:07.175 --> 0:11:11.095 caps pardon me, that are slightly more flexible, but it's 0:11:11.135 --> 0:11:13.855 still reasonably rigid. Right, So if there's some settlement or 0:11:13.855 --> 0:11:16.135 we've had a really big blow or something like that, 0:11:16.415 --> 0:11:19.455 then you will get cracks. Now, individual cracks and the 0:11:19.495 --> 0:11:23.255 pointing are probably not a concern in terms of weather tightness. 0:11:24.175 --> 0:11:27.695 But if the individual cracks then mean that pieces of 0:11:27.735 --> 0:11:32.375 the mortar fall out, excuse me, then that might be 0:11:32.415 --> 0:11:34.895 a little bit of an issue. If pieces are falling 0:11:34.935 --> 0:11:38.575 out but just cracks themselves, I don't know that I'd 0:11:38.575 --> 0:11:41.015 be too concerned. Certainly, there's a couple of roofs on 0:11:41.215 --> 0:11:45.575 houses that I look after where you know, the pointing 0:11:45.655 --> 0:11:48.535 is probably fifty years old, right, and at this stage 0:11:48.535 --> 0:11:51.575 I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that it's causing 0:11:51.575 --> 0:11:55.455 any leaks. So something to be aware of, but I 0:11:55.495 --> 0:11:57.775 don't know that it becomes an urgent repair. 0:11:59.575 --> 0:12:07.415 No, Okay, that's interesting saying that, you know, if you can, 0:12:07.535 --> 0:12:11.895 if you trust the contractor, right, because I think the concern. 0:12:11.295 --> 0:12:12.975 That you might have, or if you don't have it 0:12:13.015 --> 0:12:15.055 other people listening to the call would have, is that 0:12:15.495 --> 0:12:19.695 you know, sometimes there are unscrupulous contractors who go turn 0:12:19.815 --> 0:12:22.975 up and they go, oh my goodness, it's in terrible condition. 0:12:23.855 --> 0:12:28.175 We've got here just in time, and for two thousand dollars, 0:12:28.255 --> 0:12:30.495 we can fix that for you, And they end up 0:12:30.495 --> 0:12:33.055 fixing something it's not really a problem. So you know, 0:12:33.455 --> 0:12:36.895 if you think that it's a genuine concern. Maybe get 0:12:36.935 --> 0:12:39.815 another contractor to give you a second opinion, and if 0:12:39.815 --> 0:12:42.535 both of them agree that, hey, look this is necessary work, 0:12:42.575 --> 0:12:46.295 I'd get it done because it can be a maintenance issue. 0:12:46.335 --> 0:12:48.455 But in some case, if it's twenty years old and 0:12:48.535 --> 0:12:51.495 unless pieces are falling out, I wouldn't be too concerned. 0:12:52.615 --> 0:12:56.615 No, there's nothing falling out. They've taken photos of the 0:12:56.695 --> 0:12:57.735 whole route. 0:12:57.935 --> 0:12:58.535 Well that's good. 0:12:59.535 --> 0:13:04.055 Yes, but I think I will get another opinion. 0:13:04.615 --> 0:13:08.255 Yes, it'd be wise. Yes, nice to talk to you, 0:13:08.415 --> 0:13:11.975 my pleasure. Take care. Jall. We one hundred and eighty 0:13:12.095 --> 0:13:15.175 ten eighty from one roof to another. Actually, Colleen, good 0:13:15.215 --> 0:13:15.815 morning to you. 0:13:16.895 --> 0:13:22.175 Oh hello, o pay. I have a nineteen thirty stucco house. 0:13:22.175 --> 0:13:25.095 It's a Spanish mission style, so that's got a flat roof, yep. 0:13:25.895 --> 0:13:29.655 And we'd had a leak in well water damage and 0:13:29.695 --> 0:13:34.135 the ceiling in one room which had been there for 0:13:34.175 --> 0:13:36.295 a long time, so we put on a whole We've 0:13:36.295 --> 0:13:39.735 got a whole brand new roof done or the roofing company, yep. 0:13:41.135 --> 0:13:42.615 I mean being in an old house. We thought that's 0:13:42.655 --> 0:13:47.095 the best scenario anyway. But in the process of redoing 0:13:47.135 --> 0:13:51.455 this ceiling inside the plasterers have said that there still 0:13:51.495 --> 0:13:56.135 moisture coming through, right, and the fact that we've got 0:13:56.135 --> 0:13:59.855 a whole brand new roof and guttering in this still moisture, 0:14:00.855 --> 0:14:04.895 I'm we're sort of confused as to where this water 0:14:04.975 --> 0:14:07.655 is coming from. We can get into the ceiling space, 0:14:07.695 --> 0:14:10.935 but not to the rest of the house, but not 0:14:11.015 --> 0:14:13.975 to this part of the house coming too, it's too low. 0:14:14.935 --> 0:14:17.255 So I'm just wondering as our best option to try 0:14:17.295 --> 0:14:19.495 and find this is to cut a hole in the 0:14:19.535 --> 0:14:24.055 fibrous plaster in the ceiling and go up that way 0:14:24.095 --> 0:14:25.415 and see if you can see where the water is 0:14:25.455 --> 0:14:28.015 coming from, or what's the best way to find where 0:14:28.055 --> 0:14:32.055 the water is actually coming from any ideas. 0:14:32.655 --> 0:14:37.775 The other challenge with this is defining, Like if the 0:14:37.815 --> 0:14:42.935 contractors have said we've seen more there's moisture there, it 0:14:43.055 --> 0:14:45.295 kind of depends a little bit on what they actually 0:14:45.335 --> 0:14:45.895 mean by that. 0:14:46.015 --> 0:14:49.375 So, for example, what happened was they'd put in the 0:14:49.375 --> 0:14:51.375 process of doing the ceilings. I've done keep ceilings in 0:14:51.375 --> 0:14:53.575 the house, and they've come to this part last. They'd 0:14:53.575 --> 0:15:00.895 put the shore seal on. Yes, and he says it's 0:15:00.935 --> 0:15:05.295 not drying out there and you can still see staining 0:15:05.335 --> 0:15:08.135 coming through, and in the process of that day there 0:15:08.175 --> 0:15:11.415 was more rain and it was getting more moisture coming through. 0:15:11.735 --> 0:15:14.135 I see that it was darkening. You know that the 0:15:14.215 --> 0:15:16.095 areas around there were all dark, where the rest of 0:15:16.135 --> 0:15:20.375 the roof was ceiling was was dry. Okay, Yeah, so 0:15:20.535 --> 0:15:22.895 it looks like water's coming through and it may be 0:15:22.975 --> 0:15:25.935 pooling in that area. I don't know, yeap, that would. 0:15:25.775 --> 0:15:28.575 Make sense, Okay. Now, the reason that I wanted to 0:15:28.575 --> 0:15:32.615 ask that is that in a roof like that, it's 0:15:32.695 --> 0:15:35.975 potent potentially you have two sources of moisture, right. One 0:15:36.015 --> 0:15:38.655 is obviously it rains and the roof's not completely weather 0:15:38.695 --> 0:15:41.815 tight and the water gets inside. The other is, because 0:15:41.855 --> 0:15:45.055 it's of the nature of the construction, you can get 0:15:45.055 --> 0:15:49.175 moisture trapped in there through lack of ventilation insulation being 0:15:49.215 --> 0:15:51.655 in the wrong place, right. So it's it's kind of 0:15:51.695 --> 0:15:55.895 atmospheric moisture that develops in the essentially condensation. 0:15:56.735 --> 0:15:56.855 Right. 0:15:57.375 --> 0:16:00.375 So there's no there's no insulation in that part of 0:16:00.375 --> 0:16:03.175 the ceiling because it's too it was too low for us, right, 0:16:03.615 --> 0:16:06.495 So there is inlation other parts, but not there from 0:16:06.535 --> 0:16:10.455 that area. Yeah, I mean, you can the area is 0:16:12.295 --> 0:16:14.455 there is a space but it's just not space big 0:16:14.575 --> 0:16:15.775 enough for anyone to get into there. 0:16:16.855 --> 0:16:19.295 And knowing that type of so I presume if you're 0:16:19.295 --> 0:16:22.415 talking about nineteen thirty is house stucco, chances are your 0:16:22.575 --> 0:16:25.375 exterior walls go up and then you've got effectively a 0:16:25.455 --> 0:16:28.695 parapet maybe on two or three sides, and then the 0:16:28.775 --> 0:16:33.375 roof is inside that minimal fall running to spouting at 0:16:33.415 --> 0:16:36.655 one end right probably away from the road frontage. Okay, 0:16:38.055 --> 0:16:42.695 the contractors that came to do the rear roof a 0:16:42.735 --> 0:16:45.815 couple of things. One is did they offer any warranties 0:16:45.935 --> 0:16:50.215 and realistically they should have done. Have you invited them 0:16:50.255 --> 0:16:52.375 back to yes. 0:16:53.255 --> 0:16:55.975 I they supposedly came back this week. I've found them 0:16:56.015 --> 0:17:01.615 and told them or explained their situation. But the reason 0:17:01.655 --> 0:17:03.095 I'm ringing you is because we had a few other 0:17:03.095 --> 0:17:05.095 issues with it as well, and so I haven't got 0:17:05.135 --> 0:17:06.895 that much faith in them, although they are part of 0:17:06.895 --> 0:17:10.575 the Roofing Association and they rate and they do have 0:17:10.575 --> 0:17:14.255 a warranty. So I'm just trying to I thought, I'll 0:17:14.295 --> 0:17:17.535 just call you to try and pre empty a few questions. Yeah, 0:17:17.695 --> 0:17:20.295 sure this week and say, oh, this systems and the 0:17:20.335 --> 0:17:20.775 other thing. 0:17:23.335 --> 0:17:25.095 I guess to another area. 0:17:25.175 --> 0:17:26.975 I don't know. I know it's hard with the flat 0:17:27.055 --> 0:17:27.935 roof houses, but. 0:17:28.135 --> 0:17:30.335 They are, but there are ways around that, right, So 0:17:30.775 --> 0:17:34.535 you know they're challenging if you don't detail them right 0:17:34.695 --> 0:17:38.655 or if you don't use the right product. So was 0:17:38.695 --> 0:17:45.095 there corrugated iron on there previously? Most likely? And do 0:17:45.175 --> 0:17:49.255 you happen to know what the actual roof pitch is like? 0:17:49.255 --> 0:17:51.655 Has anyone ever done a calculation said, oh, this roof 0:17:51.695 --> 0:17:55.695 is If you feel like doing a bit of maths, 0:17:55.815 --> 0:17:59.655 that would be quite interesting to figure that out. So, 0:17:59.775 --> 0:18:04.255 for example, typically roofing corrugated iron is designed for roofs 0:18:04.415 --> 0:18:07.535 with at least about a seven degree pitch on them. 0:18:07.775 --> 0:18:10.415 Now, if you use it, I would say, So, I've 0:18:10.415 --> 0:18:12.615 been up on the road and there is definitely looking 0:18:13.415 --> 0:18:16.895 some you know some there is definitely some fall. 0:18:17.095 --> 0:18:19.815 I suspect knowing those types of houses, that in fact 0:18:19.855 --> 0:18:22.895 it's less than seven degrees, but it probably won't be 0:18:23.015 --> 0:18:26.815 less than three degrees. And so ideally, if you're somewhere 0:18:26.895 --> 0:18:29.655 in that spot between three degrees and seven degrees, you 0:18:29.735 --> 0:18:32.735 want to use a profile of corrugated iron called true oak, 0:18:33.175 --> 0:18:37.655 which has a taller profile. Right, So the distance from 0:18:37.775 --> 0:18:41.135 the top of the iron, you know, the crinkle, let's 0:18:41.135 --> 0:18:43.175 say from the bottom to the top is taller. It's 0:18:43.215 --> 0:18:46.135 about twenty three millimeters, which doesn't sound like a lot, 0:18:46.175 --> 0:18:50.175 but it's more than eighteen nineteen degrees, which is kind 0:18:50.175 --> 0:18:52.295 of where modern corrigid iron gets to and so it 0:18:52.335 --> 0:18:55.495 carries more water and it's more suited for that. So 0:18:55.815 --> 0:18:58.735 it'll be interesting to ask the contractor what profile of 0:18:58.775 --> 0:19:01.815 corrugated iron they use. The fact that they're a member 0:19:01.815 --> 0:19:04.855 of the Roofing Association is good because it does give 0:19:04.855 --> 0:19:08.455 you the opportunity if you're not confident about their ability 0:19:08.575 --> 0:19:11.735 to solve the issue, and it should be theirs to solve, right, 0:19:12.535 --> 0:19:15.055 is that you could then go to the Roofing Association 0:19:15.175 --> 0:19:19.615 and go could I ask one of your supervisors or 0:19:19.695 --> 0:19:21.575 assessors to come out and have a look at the 0:19:21.615 --> 0:19:23.935 quality of the work done by one of your members. 0:19:25.495 --> 0:19:28.695 And typically that way you'll get someone who's really, really experienced, 0:19:28.735 --> 0:19:31.335 and I know some of them who will come out. 0:19:31.415 --> 0:19:35.015 And if the original contractor is not able to determine 0:19:35.055 --> 0:19:37.175 where the leak comes from, you can draw on the 0:19:37.615 --> 0:19:39.815 experience of the association and they might be able to 0:19:39.895 --> 0:19:44.215 help you. But I think it's not unreasonable for them. 0:19:44.775 --> 0:19:47.015 If they've done the job and they've offered a warranty, 0:19:47.415 --> 0:19:49.775 it should be where the type end of story. There 0:19:49.815 --> 0:19:50.735 shouldn't be any expert. 0:19:51.975 --> 0:19:56.535 That's what I just wanted, some sort of a second option. 0:19:57.015 --> 0:19:59.415 And potentially what it is is it might not actually 0:19:59.495 --> 0:20:02.415 be about the roofing. It might be about the flashing junction. Right, 0:20:02.535 --> 0:20:05.735 So whether or not they've taken their flashings and gone 0:20:05.815 --> 0:20:10.375 to the top of the parapet, did they potentially replace 0:20:10.575 --> 0:20:13.575 the parapet flashings? Is that a source of leaks? 0:20:13.735 --> 0:20:17.935 Yeah, there was actually no fleshings along the parapets. Put 0:20:18.015 --> 0:20:18.695 fleshings on them. 0:20:18.735 --> 0:20:20.695 Okay, well that's a good thing, all right. 0:20:21.095 --> 0:20:23.775 Look, I think joined in the fleshing though. 0:20:24.335 --> 0:20:27.055 Yeah, but that's not unexpected. And again, if we know, 0:20:27.095 --> 0:20:29.255 typically would lap them one hundred and fifty mili, we'd 0:20:29.295 --> 0:20:32.975 do two beads of silicon and then fix them down appropriately. 0:20:33.095 --> 0:20:36.535 So you know, joins are okay, you just have to 0:20:36.535 --> 0:20:40.855 detail and execute them correctly. So look, I have to 0:20:40.895 --> 0:20:44.255 say having I was in a conversation earlier in the 0:20:44.255 --> 0:20:48.855 week about roofing and about roofing contractors, and you know 0:20:48.935 --> 0:20:51.735 the concern that a number of contractors are not part 0:20:51.735 --> 0:20:54.655 of the Roofing Association, at which time if you have 0:20:54.695 --> 0:20:57.215 a problem with them, you've kind of got nowhere to go, so, 0:20:57.775 --> 0:21:01.735 you know, unless you've got contacts for contractors. I think 0:21:01.815 --> 0:21:05.815 it's really important that people choosing contractors choose people who 0:21:05.855 --> 0:21:10.935 are a license registered LBPS or members of associations. And 0:21:10.975 --> 0:21:12.135 you've done that, which is great. 0:21:12.735 --> 0:21:12.975 Yeah. 0:21:13.055 --> 0:21:15.215 Yeah, well, actually from listening to your show, that's why 0:21:15.415 --> 0:21:16.055 I chose to on. 0:21:16.855 --> 0:21:17.975 Well, thank you for saying that. 0:21:17.975 --> 0:21:20.455 Well, it's one from the roof Association. I mean I 0:21:20.455 --> 0:21:22.015 didn't think I was going to need it, but now 0:21:22.015 --> 0:21:24.815 I'm thinking, well, actually maybe I will need it. Depends 0:21:24.815 --> 0:21:27.255 on what they say is when they come this week, 0:21:27.375 --> 0:21:29.175 and hopefully they'll be able to sort of. 0:21:29.175 --> 0:21:32.015 Get them back. I think it's really important. Yeah, I 0:21:32.015 --> 0:21:34.375 think it's really important. In fact, I think in consumer 0:21:34.655 --> 0:21:38.215 law you have to give the original contractor the opportunity 0:21:38.255 --> 0:21:41.095 to come and do the remediation. And if you're not 0:21:41.135 --> 0:21:43.535 confident with that, or even if you just want a 0:21:43.575 --> 0:21:46.335 second pair of eyes over it, contact the Roofing Association 0:21:46.615 --> 0:21:48.095 get them to come out and do a site visit. 0:21:48.855 --> 0:21:51.095 Yeah, good luck, Okay, Well, thank you for your. 0:21:50.975 --> 0:21:53.535 Having all right, no trouble at all, Take care, all right, 0:21:53.615 --> 0:21:55.255 all the best bar I think, oh eight one hundred 0:21:55.255 --> 0:21:57.495 and eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Will 0:21:57.495 --> 0:22:00.055 take a short break. I'll talk a little bit more about, 0:22:00.415 --> 0:22:02.855 you know, contract the selection straight after the break back 0:22:02.895 --> 0:22:06.895 in the my just quickly I can. The conversation I 0:22:06.895 --> 0:22:09.655 had this week was about a contractor that I know 0:22:09.695 --> 0:22:12.815 who rang me, who is acting on behalf of a 0:22:12.855 --> 0:22:17.175 client who, it's greatst respect, was probably an older woman 0:22:17.255 --> 0:22:21.735 on her own and had contracted someone to renovate the bathroom. 0:22:22.335 --> 0:22:26.255 And so someone turned up. They said, ah, this is great, yep, 0:22:26.335 --> 0:22:29.215 we can start sort of soon and I'll do everything. 0:22:29.535 --> 0:22:31.975 I'll pull the old one out, I'll do the waterproofing 0:22:32.215 --> 0:22:34.615 or i'll do the plumbing, I'll do the lining, I'll 0:22:34.655 --> 0:22:37.375 do the I'll fit the shower, I'll do the tiling. 0:22:37.495 --> 0:22:39.655 Da da da da da. Anyway, it's been a bit 0:22:39.695 --> 0:22:42.735 of a disaster. They've got leaks, they've got tiles falling off. 0:22:43.135 --> 0:22:46.655 It's been a really poor quality job all the way round. 0:22:47.455 --> 0:22:50.495 But of course, because the person's not licensed, certainly not 0:22:50.575 --> 0:22:52.935 licensed to be a plumber, and therefore they've broken the law. 0:22:52.975 --> 0:22:57.215 There probably don't have any qualifications in terms of the waterproofing, 0:22:57.655 --> 0:22:59.735 even you know, having attended a course on how to 0:22:59.735 --> 0:23:05.495 install that particular waterproofing. They're not an LBP, they're not 0:23:05.535 --> 0:23:08.775 part of any profit association, and so when you're looking 0:23:08.775 --> 0:23:11.615 for redress, where do you go? You've got no support. 0:23:11.695 --> 0:23:14.575 You can't go to an aid an organization and go look, 0:23:14.655 --> 0:23:17.215 one of your members has done X, Y and Z. 0:23:17.495 --> 0:23:21.575 So I'm really delighted to hear that, Colleen. In choosing 0:23:21.775 --> 0:23:24.175 to have, you know, something as important as an expensive 0:23:24.215 --> 0:23:27.935 as doing a reroof you look around for contractors who 0:23:28.535 --> 0:23:32.775 are professional and maybe have some professional association. So roofing 0:23:32.895 --> 0:23:36.375 is restricted building work, so someone should be an LBP, 0:23:36.535 --> 0:23:39.615 a licensed building practitioner. But the fact that they've then 0:23:39.695 --> 0:23:41.775 gone on to be part of an association, I think 0:23:41.815 --> 0:23:43.735 gives you some surety and it gives you somewhere to 0:23:43.775 --> 0:23:47.015 go when maybe things don't work out well. So that's 0:23:47.735 --> 0:23:50.015 good to hear from Colleen. Oh, eight hundred and eighty 0:23:50.055 --> 0:23:52.095 ten eighty is the number to call. Just a reminder, 0:23:52.215 --> 0:23:55.415 will take calls this hour next hour. I had the 0:23:55.455 --> 0:23:58.695 opportunity to do a fairly extensive interview with the Minister 0:23:58.815 --> 0:24:02.295 for Building and Construction, the honorable Chris Penk. We will 0:24:02.295 --> 0:24:05.815 have that interview for you after the seven o'clock news. Michelle, 0:24:05.855 --> 0:24:06.495 good morning. 0:24:08.295 --> 0:24:11.575 Morning, I love your love listening to a little woman. 0:24:12.655 --> 0:24:16.855 What we're about to get our deck be done. So 0:24:16.895 --> 0:24:20.775 this is the question about what to do. So we've 0:24:20.815 --> 0:24:25.215 currently got a queer deck. We have four decks around 0:24:25.335 --> 0:24:28.135 the house. Yes, we're going to extend one, et cetera. 0:24:28.615 --> 0:24:33.255 At the moment, you've got the ripped side up, and 0:24:33.295 --> 0:24:35.575 the reason we want to redo it is because what 0:24:35.695 --> 0:24:38.695 happens is it gets water in it, and then it 0:24:38.735 --> 0:24:42.175 gets moss and then we're having to constantly paint it 0:24:42.895 --> 0:24:44.935 and you know, like it grows. 0:24:44.535 --> 0:24:44.935 In the ale. 0:24:46.015 --> 0:24:49.975 So we've got bill designed that's going to start next week. 0:24:50.655 --> 0:24:53.895 They said, because initially we thought we would just get 0:24:53.935 --> 0:24:57.295 them play lift it, flip it over to its smooth side, 0:24:57.375 --> 0:24:59.695 because we actually want to paint it gray. We don't 0:24:59.735 --> 0:25:04.455 want to have that ground look the white the white house. 0:25:05.295 --> 0:25:07.695 So one of the said, well, what you know was 0:25:07.735 --> 0:25:10.455 been lifted up and then you know the flat side 0:25:11.055 --> 0:25:14.575 and then you know, get the paint and painted. But 0:25:14.775 --> 0:25:19.375 they also said there is a number of composite or 0:25:19.455 --> 0:25:24.655 some sort of other product that we could look at. 0:25:26.495 --> 0:25:29.975 So can you just advise because we're in a quandary 0:25:30.135 --> 0:25:33.815 as to do we just chuck it away and put 0:25:33.855 --> 0:25:37.895 a new product? If I do a lot of decks 0:25:37.935 --> 0:25:44.295 and showing us Yeah, so what would you recon mean 0:25:44.495 --> 0:25:47.215 is something that's gonna last that's not going to get 0:25:47.255 --> 0:25:48.295 that old dollar? 0:25:48.615 --> 0:25:48.815 Yeah? 0:25:48.895 --> 0:25:55.695 Sure, yes, I guess there's a couple of different approaches here. 0:25:55.735 --> 0:25:59.575 One is if I put my sustainability hat on, which 0:25:59.615 --> 0:26:02.175 is pretty important to me, then I'd go. You know, 0:26:02.255 --> 0:26:06.295 if you've got decking material that's durable and as well 0:26:06.375 --> 0:26:09.015 within its lifespan, and you can extend that life span 0:26:09.175 --> 0:26:12.735 by reusing it, that's a really good choice to make. Right, 0:26:13.495 --> 0:26:16.935 So you're not wasting a resource that you've already spent 0:26:16.975 --> 0:26:19.495 money on. You're not sending something to landfill, and I 0:26:19.535 --> 0:26:20.975 hope you wouldn't do that. You'd send it off to 0:26:21.015 --> 0:26:24.495 a recycling center. So if there was an opportunity, if 0:26:24.495 --> 0:26:28.175 the boards are in reasonable condition, if they for example, 0:26:28.175 --> 0:26:30.935 if they were screwed down rather than being nailed down. 0:26:30.975 --> 0:26:33.855 So I'm being practical here lifting boards that have been 0:26:33.935 --> 0:26:36.215 nailed down, you will get a bit of damage. If 0:26:36.215 --> 0:26:38.175 the boards have been screwed down. You can back the 0:26:38.215 --> 0:26:41.215 screws out, flip the boards over, you might even give 0:26:41.255 --> 0:26:43.895 them a bit of individual attention before you relay them. 0:26:44.255 --> 0:26:48.015 And so you know, cost wise and environmentally, that's a 0:26:48.055 --> 0:26:51.775 really good choice. So that's something consider. The other option 0:26:52.055 --> 0:26:55.375 is some of the composite boards, where there is a 0:26:55.495 --> 0:26:59.255 range of colors. I've used a couple of them over 0:26:59.255 --> 0:27:01.615 the years. The one that I've probably used the most 0:27:01.735 --> 0:27:06.095 is one from a company called out Dure, and that 0:27:06.375 --> 0:27:10.335 the benefits of that is that you will you will 0:27:10.375 --> 0:27:14.495 get a concealed fixed system, which is kind of nice. 0:27:15.295 --> 0:27:19.815 They have a slightly better slip resistance to them because 0:27:19.855 --> 0:27:22.815 of the way that they're made. So you know, if 0:27:22.855 --> 0:27:25.135 you take your queeler and flip it over and have 0:27:25.215 --> 0:27:28.895 the smooth side up, that will have less slip resistance 0:27:28.935 --> 0:27:31.975 than some of the composites. But if you know, if 0:27:31.975 --> 0:27:34.735 you're doing four decks and you're throwing away four decks 0:27:34.735 --> 0:27:37.135 worth of timber and then buying four decks worth of 0:27:37.295 --> 0:27:42.975 new material and you don't need to, I guess my 0:27:43.455 --> 0:27:47.175 heart would say do something to reuse what you've already got. 0:27:47.215 --> 0:27:49.815 But then I'm coming very strongly from a point of 0:27:49.895 --> 0:27:52.975 view where I don't like to see us waste resources, 0:27:53.655 --> 0:27:57.575 and so I would favor reuse over purchasing you. But 0:27:57.695 --> 0:28:01.655 that's more kind of a political decision than a practical one, 0:28:01.735 --> 0:28:04.975 let's say. But yeah, some of some of the composites 0:28:04.975 --> 0:28:05.535 are very good. 0:28:07.335 --> 0:28:10.775 Yeah, and which someone lasts the longest, Like the slip 0:28:10.815 --> 0:28:13.935 thing has been an issue because these ridges, when they 0:28:13.975 --> 0:28:16.535 get wet that it's actually not a you know what 0:28:16.575 --> 0:28:18.775 I mean, that's why we're and isn't. 0:28:18.575 --> 0:28:22.015 That curious because typically we flip the boards up to 0:28:22.015 --> 0:28:26.095 have the rib side up because it helps stop slipping, right, 0:28:26.135 --> 0:28:30.215 But your experiences they actually get more slippery as a result, 0:28:30.935 --> 0:28:33.255 and doc to be fair, if I'm laying decking that 0:28:33.335 --> 0:28:37.095 has the ribs on it, I would typically put those down, 0:28:37.175 --> 0:28:39.655 but I often use I often flip them back up 0:28:39.695 --> 0:28:43.175 again if they're on the nose of a stair, so 0:28:43.295 --> 0:28:45.895 on the edge of a stair, just it helps with 0:28:45.895 --> 0:28:48.175 a bit of slip resistance. And it's a visual queue 0:28:48.175 --> 0:28:55.655 that there's a step here. So yeah, look, yeah, for 0:28:55.695 --> 0:28:59.455 what it's worth, possibly i'd probably if I was looking 0:28:59.455 --> 0:29:02.535 at it, i'd probably encourage you to reuse. But if 0:29:02.535 --> 0:29:05.775 you didn't, then you know, get the builders to lift 0:29:05.815 --> 0:29:07.895 it in such a way that potentially it could be 0:29:08.015 --> 0:29:10.775 sold and someone else gets to buy it, which would 0:29:10.815 --> 0:29:15.575 be great. And or you know, in the very worst case, 0:29:15.655 --> 0:29:18.615 if you are sending that material away, make sure it's 0:29:18.615 --> 0:29:20.415 going to a site that recycles it. 0:29:21.935 --> 0:29:27.575 Yeah, so just one more question mentioned they could put 0:29:27.655 --> 0:29:30.615 you know, we've been discussing what to do about it, 0:29:30.775 --> 0:29:33.655 but it's so much digging. If they also say, well 0:29:33.735 --> 0:29:37.695 we could replace it with pine digging, yep, it gives 0:29:37.735 --> 0:29:38.455 you you. 0:29:38.415 --> 0:29:41.215 Know, a because we do want to paint it the 0:29:41.295 --> 0:29:44.535 beas and beans. We get a lot of sunshine, and 0:29:46.495 --> 0:29:50.055 we in our last property we owned, we made a 0:29:50.055 --> 0:29:52.855 couple of mistakes. We put black outside in the pool area, 0:29:52.895 --> 0:29:55.055 which is we're going to be decking around this pool 0:29:55.095 --> 0:30:01.215 as well, and we painted it too whiter dead and 0:30:01.295 --> 0:30:02.255 it's got too hot. 0:30:02.775 --> 0:30:05.175 So we sort of want something that you. 0:30:05.135 --> 0:30:09.255 Know, there is flatness, move easier to just give it 0:30:09.295 --> 0:30:11.615 a quick hose to keep it playing. We don't want 0:30:11.655 --> 0:30:14.415 the moss as you yeah, and we don't want it 0:30:14.455 --> 0:30:17.095 to be too hot for the green tests not to 0:30:17.135 --> 0:30:19.175 be able to send or do you know what I mean? 0:30:19.975 --> 0:30:23.975 So again, look, I certainly don't have a problem recommending 0:30:24.495 --> 0:30:27.615 soft woods like Pinus Radiata. I think it's really important 0:30:27.615 --> 0:30:31.135 to seal it, as in put in a penetrating oil seal. 0:30:32.015 --> 0:30:34.815 I certainly don't when you say paint, I presume that 0:30:34.815 --> 0:30:38.415 what you mean is staining, right, You're not actually going. 0:30:38.335 --> 0:30:39.495 To paint it. 0:30:38.935 --> 0:30:41.935 If you start painting it, you're just creating a lot 0:30:41.935 --> 0:30:45.495 of work for yourself and it'll be quite slippery. So again, 0:30:45.575 --> 0:30:51.015 Pinus Radiator good quality. That it definitely becomes a question 0:30:51.135 --> 0:30:54.255 if you get what you pay for right, So don't 0:30:54.815 --> 0:30:57.175 you know if you're going to get a cheap product 0:30:57.255 --> 0:31:00.015 or a cheaper or more cost effective product, make sure 0:31:00.015 --> 0:31:01.855 you look at it first, because certainly I've been to 0:31:01.895 --> 0:31:05.535 a job where the owner bought the decking themselves, thought 0:31:05.535 --> 0:31:07.295 that they'd got a real deal and it was just 0:31:07.375 --> 0:31:09.095 rubbish and we ended up having to send it back 0:31:09.135 --> 0:31:11.855 and buy something decent. So make sure you get some 0:31:11.975 --> 0:31:14.935 really good material. I've got to run, Michelle, But good 0:31:14.975 --> 0:31:17.895 luck with all of those eight hundred eighty ten eighties 0:31:17.895 --> 0:31:20.095 that I'm going to call Anthony, good morning. 0:31:20.975 --> 0:31:21.655 Good morning piece. 0:31:21.695 --> 0:31:22.655 Hey, how you doing. 0:31:23.495 --> 0:31:25.775 I've got a good I've got a question for you. 0:31:26.255 --> 0:31:28.935 My daughter is looking around to buy her first house, 0:31:29.015 --> 0:31:32.575 and we went to a few open houses. She found 0:31:32.655 --> 0:31:38.855 one new bill and it's my question, is the laundry. 0:31:39.175 --> 0:31:41.215 The laundry is a meet up by meta? 0:31:41.455 --> 0:31:41.655 Yep. 0:31:41.735 --> 0:31:45.255 It's got no it's got notub or not sink or 0:31:45.335 --> 0:31:51.055 not provision for it yep. And is that okay? Is 0:31:51.175 --> 0:31:53.095 how they build them these days or do you do 0:31:53.135 --> 0:31:53.655 you have to. 0:31:53.535 --> 0:31:54.215 Have that in there? 0:31:55.055 --> 0:31:58.535 You don't have to have a laundry sink, right, They're 0:31:58.575 --> 0:32:01.255 really good to have, obviously, and there's a practical reason 0:32:01.295 --> 0:32:05.135 for having one. But you know, increasingly we're building more 0:32:05.215 --> 0:32:07.695 and more compact house is right, So something's got to 0:32:07.735 --> 0:32:11.135 give because we just don't have the floor space. So yeah, 0:32:11.455 --> 0:32:14.415 it's not a requirement in the building code as far 0:32:14.415 --> 0:32:16.695 as I'm concerned, or as far as I'm aware, to 0:32:16.775 --> 0:32:17.815 have a laundry sink. 0:32:19.655 --> 0:32:23.255 The other thing is because the laundry is as usual 0:32:23.295 --> 0:32:27.455 these days, it's under the stairs, yes, And it's got 0:32:27.615 --> 0:32:33.615 no height to mount the dryer right wall itself. Yeah, 0:32:34.695 --> 0:32:36.415 So what do you do with a dryer these days? 0:32:36.455 --> 0:32:37.015 Just put it in the. 0:32:40.695 --> 0:32:41.055 Well? 0:32:41.495 --> 0:32:41.735 Yeah? 0:32:41.775 --> 0:32:44.735 And I mean there's probably other issues around, like, for example, 0:32:44.855 --> 0:32:46.655 I would hope that in a space like that, it 0:32:46.775 --> 0:32:49.375 has ventilation or extraction in it. 0:32:50.095 --> 0:32:50.495 They do. 0:32:51.535 --> 0:32:57.335 There's a little tiny thing other thing does bloody hell. 0:32:57.375 --> 0:33:01.575 It's about two hundred by two hundred. Yeah. 0:33:01.615 --> 0:33:03.935 Look, if it's a one fifty and it's a reasonable run, 0:33:04.015 --> 0:33:09.695 it'll be doing something and that's really important. Yeah, I mean, look, 0:33:09.775 --> 0:33:11.855 this is this is just one of the challenges we 0:33:11.935 --> 0:33:17.615 have with more compact living, right, And you know, you 0:33:17.695 --> 0:33:20.055 might I do. You know, I have space where we've 0:33:20.095 --> 0:33:22.975 got a bench and the appliances, and I can hang 0:33:23.015 --> 0:33:24.855 the dryer on the wall and I conduct it out 0:33:24.855 --> 0:33:28.135 through the wall to the outside. But in many modern 0:33:28.135 --> 0:33:33.095 apartments you can't. So I guess if it's not there, 0:33:33.575 --> 0:33:37.095 really hard to create it. But as best I understand it, 0:33:37.135 --> 0:33:40.055 there's no requirement in the building code to develop houses 0:33:40.055 --> 0:33:41.215 that allow for that. Yeah. 0:33:41.735 --> 0:33:46.015 Just one more thing. The switchboard. Electrical switchboard. I thought 0:33:46.055 --> 0:33:48.255 they had to be on outside these days, but this 0:33:48.295 --> 0:33:50.895 one is the inside the dining room. 0:33:51.335 --> 0:33:54.695 No much more common these days. And let's separate out 0:33:54.775 --> 0:33:58.255 two things here. One is the meter, right, which is 0:33:58.295 --> 0:34:00.535 where your man's run to, and it calculates how much 0:34:00.655 --> 0:34:03.455 energy usage you've got. The other is the distribution board 0:34:03.855 --> 0:34:09.215 increasingly distribution actually a meet yourself. No, it's not uncommon 0:34:09.255 --> 0:34:12.375 for them to be inside. Typically, if for the projects 0:34:12.375 --> 0:34:14.055 that I've been doing, I would try and put them 0:34:14.055 --> 0:34:18.495 in the garage. But a lot of modern medium density 0:34:18.495 --> 0:34:21.775 housing actually don't have a garage, in which case they 0:34:21.855 --> 0:34:24.215 end up maybe close to the front door, and the 0:34:24.215 --> 0:34:26.615 front door basically goes straight into the lounge, so you 0:34:26.695 --> 0:34:28.295 end up with them in the lounge. 0:34:28.935 --> 0:34:31.295 Yeah, this doesn't have a garage, so that's that's why 0:34:31.335 --> 0:34:34.335 it's not in the garage, I suppose, yep. Yeah, And 0:34:34.615 --> 0:34:38.375 just one way question, if I can this unit? She 0:34:38.455 --> 0:34:41.575 looked at she it's it's there's a five I think 0:34:41.615 --> 0:34:44.215 in the block and hers her one is at the 0:34:44.295 --> 0:34:49.175 highest point of the land, if you like, yes, now 0:34:49.815 --> 0:34:52.375 at the back seemed to me like there could be 0:34:52.495 --> 0:34:55.815 some water issues where the water is gonna, you know, 0:34:55.855 --> 0:34:59.055 on a heavy range water the backyard, it's got to 0:34:59.095 --> 0:35:01.495 go somewhere. It's obviously going to go down to the 0:35:01.495 --> 0:35:05.095 other units. How does how do you sort it out? 0:35:05.215 --> 0:35:07.775 And can they say, look, you have to keep your 0:35:07.855 --> 0:35:10.175 water on your property or how does it work? 0:35:10.935 --> 0:35:14.415 I guess only water that lands on your roof. Do 0:35:14.495 --> 0:35:16.175 you have to contain, right, So. 0:35:17.055 --> 0:35:21.975 That runs water on a grass or that's fine. 0:35:22.135 --> 0:35:25.495 Yeah, yes, as long as it's not set up in 0:35:25.535 --> 0:35:28.295 such a way that it's an obvious nuisance. But in 0:35:28.335 --> 0:35:31.575 the end, you know, you can't stop water going downhill, right, 0:35:31.975 --> 0:35:35.615 So whether or not it's your property and or it's 0:35:35.775 --> 0:35:37.975 you're adjoined to your neighbor because you're in a multi 0:35:38.055 --> 0:35:40.775 unit development or something like that. So I think there's 0:35:40.895 --> 0:35:43.535 kind of a reasonableness to it. But what, for example, 0:35:43.535 --> 0:35:45.735 what you can't do is discharge your roof water in 0:35:45.775 --> 0:35:47.935 such a way that it becomes a nuisance for a neighbor. 0:35:48.215 --> 0:35:51.215 But if if and because chances are the water that 0:35:51.415 --> 0:35:54.295 is on your the house that your daughter might end 0:35:54.335 --> 0:35:56.895 up purchasing, that might come from the neighbor, right, So 0:35:56.935 --> 0:35:59.735 it comes from the neighbor onto this property and then 0:35:59.775 --> 0:36:02.015 goes to the next one. So as long as it's 0:36:02.055 --> 0:36:07.055 not deliberate, I think you're okay. All right, nice to 0:36:07.095 --> 0:36:08.855 talk to you, lovely to chat and good luck with 0:36:08.935 --> 0:36:11.135 the house hunting. All right mate, all the us take 0:36:11.175 --> 0:36:14.175 care bye bayh. We'll talk to Craig straight after the break. 0:36:14.935 --> 0:36:17.335 Quick text. Is there anywhere that you can go to 0:36:17.415 --> 0:36:20.895 check that the LBP is registered or do you just 0:36:21.095 --> 0:36:24.895 ask the LBP or the builder if they are. One 0:36:24.895 --> 0:36:26.935 of the best things about the LBP scheme is it's 0:36:26.935 --> 0:36:30.575 completely open, right, So you simply go to building dot 0:36:30.615 --> 0:36:36.495 gov dot nz forward slash LBP and then select search register, 0:36:37.055 --> 0:36:40.615 type in the name or they really the name of 0:36:40.695 --> 0:36:43.095 the person and it will come up. And if they're 0:36:43.095 --> 0:36:46.335 not there, they are not an LBP. If they were 0:36:46.375 --> 0:36:49.375 an LBP but have been deregistered for some reason, or 0:36:49.375 --> 0:36:51.775 their name has been taken off the current list, that 0:36:51.855 --> 0:36:56.015 will come up. And any other information about them like if, 0:36:56.055 --> 0:37:00.055 for example, they had failed to get re license in time, 0:37:00.135 --> 0:37:02.615 had their license suspended for a period of time but 0:37:02.695 --> 0:37:05.775 then reinstated. All of that's there. So building dot gov, 0:37:05.815 --> 0:37:09.135 dot nz forward slash LBP will give you all of 0:37:09.175 --> 0:37:11.455 that information. Like I say, you're either on it or 0:37:11.455 --> 0:37:15.655 you're not. I had to relicense the other day, so 0:37:16.095 --> 0:37:19.375 before I expired, I've done that. It's been accepted. I'm 0:37:19.415 --> 0:37:23.175 on the list. I'm number BP one two zero zero, 0:37:23.375 --> 0:37:26.495 nine to eight. It's as simple as that. Craig, good morning, 0:37:27.295 --> 0:37:28.895 good morning, haws a game, good things. 0:37:30.015 --> 0:37:31.735 It's bringing on Behalf a friend of mine who doesn't 0:37:31.775 --> 0:37:34.935 like ring up radio station. He's a little bit shy. 0:37:35.695 --> 0:37:38.895 He's old school. He's got a problem with this pool. 0:37:38.935 --> 0:37:41.735 As far as the council goes. Their property is down 0:37:42.055 --> 0:37:44.695 a right away down the bottom of a quite a 0:37:44.735 --> 0:37:46.895 large steep hill with their houses. They are the only 0:37:46.895 --> 0:37:49.935 one down there, and then it goes up a steep 0:37:50.015 --> 0:37:52.775 driveway to the main road, and then their broad is 0:37:52.855 --> 0:37:54.975 quite flat. But then all around the hill's feather about 0:37:54.975 --> 0:37:56.775 an one hundred meters up the hill, about kway from 0:37:56.815 --> 0:38:00.455 the house is the water reservoir. Right now, he's been 0:38:00.495 --> 0:38:03.215 told they need his failed his compliants for his pool. 0:38:03.615 --> 0:38:05.295 He's got a water meter, but they said he needs 0:38:05.335 --> 0:38:07.575 a backflow valve and there to stop the water going 0:38:07.615 --> 0:38:10.615 back into the system. And he's a little the confused 0:38:10.655 --> 0:38:12.735 because being on the bottom of the hell, how's the water 0:38:12.775 --> 0:38:15.015 supposed to go back up the hill to the reservoir. 0:38:15.735 --> 0:38:18.575 Yeah, okay, so I don't think council are concerned about 0:38:18.575 --> 0:38:21.095 the water going back up the councilor concerned about the 0:38:21.095 --> 0:38:24.655 water going down and through the main system. So if 0:38:24.695 --> 0:38:29.455 there's a requirement to have backflow prevention, which is essentially 0:38:29.455 --> 0:38:33.255 a device that stops water inadvertently being siphoned out of 0:38:33.295 --> 0:38:36.575 the pool and returned to the main system. Now that's 0:38:37.335 --> 0:38:40.095 and the principle behind it is reasonably sound, and we 0:38:40.175 --> 0:38:43.935 have them inside our houses. So, for example, a shower 0:38:44.215 --> 0:38:47.695 on a detachable hose right that you can handheld one 0:38:48.375 --> 0:38:52.695 has to have a backflow prevention device included in it 0:38:52.775 --> 0:38:56.735 because let's say you inadvertently lifted in at the bottom 0:38:56.735 --> 0:38:58.895 of the shower and it's sucked up water, it would 0:38:58.895 --> 0:39:02.575 siphon foul water back into the council line, into the 0:39:02.615 --> 0:39:06.215 main line. So all of these regulations are around protecting 0:39:06.375 --> 0:39:09.135 public safety by ensuring we don't have that. So that's 0:39:09.135 --> 0:39:11.935 a reasonable request from counsel to us for a backflow 0:39:12.055 --> 0:39:12.975 prevention device. 0:39:14.015 --> 0:39:16.695 Okay, I'll just excuse also been it's a bottom of 0:39:16.815 --> 0:39:19.895 hell and matter the pressure and the pressure in the 0:39:19.935 --> 0:39:21.975 water mains for how, I don't actually know how it 0:39:22.015 --> 0:39:23.055 would go back up the hill. 0:39:23.535 --> 0:39:25.375 It's not about it going back up because in the 0:39:25.575 --> 0:39:28.215 end that there are people downhill as well, right, and 0:39:28.255 --> 0:39:29.055 it's protecting those. 0:39:29.175 --> 0:39:30.815 He's the only one of the bomb the hill, He's 0:39:30.815 --> 0:39:31.455 the only one there. 0:39:31.615 --> 0:39:35.135 It wouldn't look if it needs backflow prevention, it needs 0:39:35.175 --> 0:39:38.735 backflow prevention. It's in the regulation. He just needs to 0:39:38.735 --> 0:39:41.015 go and do it, Okay. 0:39:40.735 --> 0:39:42.895 All right, it just doesn't make physical sense, that's all. 0:39:43.375 --> 0:39:46.415 It doesn't matter. It does despite the fact he's at 0:39:46.415 --> 0:39:49.695 the bottom of the hill. It's it's all about protecting 0:39:49.735 --> 0:39:51.695 public safety and I think it's important and if it's 0:39:51.735 --> 0:39:53.655 part of the regulations, then just get on. 0:39:53.655 --> 0:39:54.415 And do it. You know. 0:39:55.135 --> 0:39:58.255 I understand him asking the question. I do, but at 0:39:58.255 --> 0:40:01.295 a certain point it's it's there for a reason. Just 0:40:01.375 --> 0:40:03.215 do it and get them to do it, and get 0:40:03.255 --> 0:40:04.655 him to get on with it and get the Council 0:40:04.695 --> 0:40:07.775 off his back would be my approach. Good luck with 0:40:07.815 --> 0:40:09.335 all of that, mate, Oh eight, one hundred and eighty 0:40:09.415 --> 0:40:12.535 ten eighty ah, we might have time for one call 0:40:12.575 --> 0:40:14.855 after the break. We might do that. Then we've got 0:40:14.855 --> 0:40:18.095 the Minister Chris Pink joining us for an extended interview 0:40:18.615 --> 0:40:20.855 between seven and eight though looking forward to that. We're 0:40:20.895 --> 0:40:23.815 back straight after news, sport and weather. If you'd like 0:40:23.855 --> 0:40:26.215 to join us, stay tuned because we've got the Minister 0:40:26.455 --> 0:40:30.335 Chris Pink after the news your news talks. Here be 0:40:31.015 --> 0:40:33.495 just a very quick call before we go to the 0:40:33.495 --> 0:40:38.255 interview with Chris Pink. The Minister for Building and Construction. 0:40:39.015 --> 0:40:41.495 We'll have that interview in just a moment. Marie, Good 0:40:41.495 --> 0:40:46.455 morning to you. Hello Marie Elly, Yes, hey there, how 0:40:46.455 --> 0:40:46.855 are you doing? 0:40:48.055 --> 0:40:48.335 Good? 0:40:48.495 --> 0:40:48.775 Good? 0:40:49.455 --> 0:40:52.935 Just a quick question on a rural property in the 0:40:52.935 --> 0:40:57.335 way kaddow. Yes, as the downpipe goes down and the 0:40:57.375 --> 0:41:00.295 water just sits in a puddle at the bottom, it 0:41:00.295 --> 0:41:01.495 doesn't go anywhere. 0:41:01.855 --> 0:41:02.135 Yep. 0:41:03.135 --> 0:41:03.935 Is that legal? 0:41:06.535 --> 0:41:09.815 I think it's probably not, because it's a house and 0:41:09.855 --> 0:41:12.615 you need to contain the water. But then you also go, well, 0:41:12.615 --> 0:41:16.135 hang on, who's that going to impact right only you. 0:41:16.855 --> 0:41:19.375 What it's going to do is make the ground damper 0:41:20.535 --> 0:41:24.575 and more saturated. It's a waste of resource if your 0:41:24.655 --> 0:41:28.255 rural chances are you want to capture that. So it's 0:41:28.255 --> 0:41:30.615 not great for the house. But in terms of its 0:41:30.655 --> 0:41:33.895 impact on other people, if you don't have a close neighbor, 0:41:34.015 --> 0:41:36.295 then it probably makes no difference at all to them, 0:41:36.335 --> 0:41:39.455 in which case it's kind of nobody's business. But I 0:41:39.495 --> 0:41:42.295 would still encourage you to collect that rain water, either 0:41:42.295 --> 0:41:47.095 with a water tank because that's sensible resilient, or to 0:41:47.175 --> 0:41:49.935 stop all of that water sitting around your house. I 0:41:49.935 --> 0:41:52.415 would direct it away from the house as far as 0:41:52.455 --> 0:41:55.535 possible without too close to the neighbor. Being too close 0:41:55.535 --> 0:41:58.535 to the neighbor, yeah. 0:41:58.415 --> 0:42:01.055 Now just a little puddle formed. 0:42:02.255 --> 0:42:03.015 Which is not great. 0:42:03.095 --> 0:42:03.255 Right. 0:42:03.295 --> 0:42:06.535 We don't actually want standing water around our houses because 0:42:06.535 --> 0:42:09.135 if it's outside you, away from the house, chances are 0:42:09.135 --> 0:42:12.015 it's also going to saturate the ground underneath the house, 0:42:12.135 --> 0:42:14.255 and that's not great in terms of trying to keep 0:42:14.295 --> 0:42:18.415 our houses warm, dry and comfortable. But more importantly, I 0:42:18.415 --> 0:42:20.615 think if you're rural and your depend are you on 0:42:21.055 --> 0:42:28.935 main supply mains supply for water? No, okay, then you 0:42:28.975 --> 0:42:30.935 know at some stage you're probably going to run out 0:42:30.975 --> 0:42:33.135 of water, And if you've wasted it by dumping it 0:42:33.175 --> 0:42:35.655 on the ground for all that time, go and grab 0:42:35.695 --> 0:42:39.855 yourself a water tank and capture it would seem sensible 0:42:39.855 --> 0:42:45.015 to me. Nice of you to call Marie all the 0:42:45.135 --> 0:42:48.375 very best. I'm very tempted to read out this text. 0:42:48.455 --> 0:42:49.815 I might save it for a bit longer. I don't 0:42:49.855 --> 0:42:52.495 want to bring the tone of the conversation down right now, right. 0:42:52.575 --> 0:42:55.615 It was my great pleasure last week to have an 0:42:55.615 --> 0:42:59.415 opportunity to spend almost an hour with the new Minister 0:42:59.655 --> 0:43:03.375 for Building and Construction, Chris Penk. He came into the 0:43:03.375 --> 0:43:06.135 studio and I said to him, this is an opportunity 0:43:06.615 --> 0:43:08.175 to kind of stretch our legs. 0:43:08.255 --> 0:43:08.455 Right. 0:43:08.535 --> 0:43:10.535 So most of the time when we do interviews, it's 0:43:10.575 --> 0:43:12.535 all about quite quite quick. You know, we've going to 0:43:12.615 --> 0:43:16.615 race through this. This wasn't so this is a conversation 0:43:16.695 --> 0:43:19.495 that I recorded last week with the minister. We'll play 0:43:19.495 --> 0:43:23.375 this straight after the break. Chris, Welcome to the studio 0:43:23.535 --> 0:43:25.935 and thanks for taking the time to actually come in. 0:43:26.735 --> 0:43:29.495 I really really appreciate it. Tell us a little bit 0:43:29.615 --> 0:43:32.015 about I'm intrigued by this. So you spent some time 0:43:32.055 --> 0:43:36.295 in the navy, including the Australian Navy on submarines obviously, 0:43:36.335 --> 0:43:39.775 then there was a law career, entry into Parliament twenty seventeen. 0:43:40.335 --> 0:43:43.055 Now you've got a number of portfolios. I saw you 0:43:43.255 --> 0:43:47.495 at the Dutch Memorial as representing as Minister for Veterans Affairs. 0:43:48.175 --> 0:43:51.455 You're also obviously Minister for Building and Construction. I kind 0:43:51.455 --> 0:43:53.295 of feel like, how did you end up with that job? 0:43:53.855 --> 0:43:54.095 Yeah? 0:43:54.335 --> 0:43:56.455 I feel very fortunate for a start, and by the way, 0:43:56.455 --> 0:43:57.895 great to have a chat with you here. I thank 0:43:57.935 --> 0:44:00.335 you considerable audience, who I know hang on every word 0:44:00.455 --> 0:44:02.375 that you say in relation to these matters. Look, it's 0:44:02.375 --> 0:44:05.455 obviously a hugely important subject for the country. So from 0:44:05.455 --> 0:44:07.335 my point of view, to to be fortunate enough to 0:44:07.375 --> 0:44:10.295 be the minister as a great privilege. The short answer 0:44:10.335 --> 0:44:13.455 is because the incoming Prime Minister asked me if I'd 0:44:13.495 --> 0:44:14.895 like to do it, And there's only one answer to 0:44:14.895 --> 0:44:17.295 that question. But right, you know, I'm really delighted to 0:44:17.295 --> 0:44:19.055 have that. In terms of background, you know, I'm not 0:44:19.095 --> 0:44:21.295 a technical guy. I don't pretend to be any better 0:44:21.335 --> 0:44:24.495 than the average diy hack of a weekend. But having 0:44:24.495 --> 0:44:26.095 said there a little bit of background in the law, 0:44:26.095 --> 0:44:29.015 and particularly in relation to property law, and so having 0:44:29.055 --> 0:44:30.895 experienced some of these issues in terms of how the 0:44:30.975 --> 0:44:34.015 legislation the regulations are put together, including the costs and 0:44:34.375 --> 0:44:38.095 certainty and all those difficulties and that clients used to 0:44:38.135 --> 0:44:39.695 face in terms of you know, what it meant for 0:44:39.735 --> 0:44:42.175 them not to have laws that enabled them to do 0:44:42.295 --> 0:44:44.455 things quickly and easily and therefore more affordably. 0:44:44.855 --> 0:44:48.135 So in your practice law practice that was very much 0:44:48.175 --> 0:44:49.095 focused on property. 0:44:49.455 --> 0:44:51.175 Yeah, it was actually and in a little bit of 0:44:51.175 --> 0:44:53.095 accident of history in terms if that was work that 0:44:53.175 --> 0:44:56.015 was available at that time, and certainly I enjoyed it 0:44:56.135 --> 0:44:58.495 and I wasn't to know, of course, that all these 0:44:58.535 --> 0:45:01.015 years later i'd have the opportunity within a political environment 0:45:01.055 --> 0:45:03.015 to help, you know, maybe make the laws and shave 0:45:03.095 --> 0:45:04.935 them a little bit. So, as I say, really pleased, 0:45:04.975 --> 0:45:07.015 it's a little bit of a natural progression. But also 0:45:07.175 --> 0:45:08.775 I'm humble enough to say that there's a lot that 0:45:08.895 --> 0:45:11.455 I know that I don't know, and every willing and 0:45:11.655 --> 0:45:13.615 keen in fact to ask questions of the people who 0:45:13.655 --> 0:45:14.455 out there doing the work. 0:45:14.735 --> 0:45:17.615 And to be fair, one of the things that I 0:45:17.695 --> 0:45:19.615 have noticed is that I've seen you at a number 0:45:19.615 --> 0:45:22.535 of conferences. I also know that you've spent a fair 0:45:22.575 --> 0:45:25.575 amount of time with different industry groups and seem to 0:45:25.775 --> 0:45:27.615 be willing to listen, which is great. 0:45:28.095 --> 0:45:30.495 Yeah, I mean, I think any government minister would be 0:45:30.535 --> 0:45:34.375 foolish not to frankly to be recognizing, you know, particularly 0:45:34.415 --> 0:45:36.615 in building construction, that the people who are by their 0:45:36.695 --> 0:45:40.895 nature very resourceful you used to come out with solutions 0:45:40.975 --> 0:45:43.295 literally constructive in their approach, and I think if you 0:45:43.335 --> 0:45:45.175 know you're smart as a policy maker, you get as 0:45:45.215 --> 0:45:47.175 close to those people as possible because they will tell 0:45:47.175 --> 0:45:49.375 you what's happening on the ground, sure where the barriers are, 0:45:49.575 --> 0:45:52.135 and look it's not that we can provide the answers 0:45:52.255 --> 0:45:54.055 that will please everyone all the time, of course not, 0:45:54.095 --> 0:45:56.695 because even industry itself has a range of different views. 0:45:57.135 --> 0:45:59.255 We might get into that in the discussion will certainly 0:45:59.775 --> 0:46:02.855 by missing you know, if you weren't engaged closely, you'd 0:46:02.855 --> 0:46:03.895 be missing as opportunities. 0:46:04.015 --> 0:46:08.135 Yeah, okay. The other thing that I really appreciate is 0:46:08.135 --> 0:46:10.535 the fact that we can take some time because I 0:46:10.655 --> 0:46:13.815 think that one of the challenges with discussing building and 0:46:14.535 --> 0:46:17.895 construction issues is that we're looking for simple answers, and 0:46:18.055 --> 0:46:21.055 to be fair, they're not there right. So anything that 0:46:21.135 --> 0:46:23.815 you can summarize in a pithy headline is probably not 0:46:24.015 --> 0:46:27.455 worth really discussing. So there's lots and lots of detail. 0:46:28.575 --> 0:46:30.535 In preparing for this, I did a quick sort of 0:46:30.575 --> 0:46:34.775 Google search and went basically Chris Minister and building changes, 0:46:34.815 --> 0:46:37.135 and one of the things that popped up is something 0:46:37.215 --> 0:46:39.415 that in fact I was talking with a builder today 0:46:39.535 --> 0:46:43.575 about exactly this, clarifying the definition of a minor variation 0:46:43.775 --> 0:46:46.815 and introducing this idea of minor customizations. 0:46:47.055 --> 0:46:48.855 You just walk me through that. Yeah, So the. 0:46:48.895 --> 0:46:51.615 Idea is really trying to get the best we can 0:46:51.775 --> 0:46:55.255 out of the consent system as it currently exists, because 0:46:55.295 --> 0:46:58.175 of course, the big picture is that it's a difficult, 0:46:58.375 --> 0:47:01.575 expense of time consuming and uncertain to build in this country. 0:47:01.575 --> 0:47:04.375 And part of that is around the processes with consents 0:47:04.815 --> 0:47:07.095 of obviously need a building content in the first place, 0:47:07.335 --> 0:47:08.975 and inspections as I think that we might get to 0:47:09.015 --> 0:47:11.735 talk to certainly when there are changes along the way, 0:47:12.215 --> 0:47:15.055 be it in relation to products, maybe a better or 0:47:15.055 --> 0:47:17.575 a different products being found. Maybe you want the product 0:47:17.615 --> 0:47:20.135 that's available now, you know, a little reference and footnote 0:47:20.215 --> 0:47:23.255 to the plaster board shortagees COT of years ago, for example. 0:47:23.375 --> 0:47:25.055 But even in a business as usual kind of way, 0:47:25.095 --> 0:47:27.575 we want that flexibility because we reduce the delay, we 0:47:27.855 --> 0:47:31.295 improve choice and competition and therefore affordability. And part of 0:47:31.335 --> 0:47:34.455 the issue, it seems to me, is that when a 0:47:34.575 --> 0:47:37.975 relatively small change needs to be happen, happen along the 0:47:38.015 --> 0:47:41.295 way in terms of those products substitutions, you want that 0:47:41.415 --> 0:47:44.135 mine of variation mechanism which does already exist to be 0:47:44.215 --> 0:47:47.175 clear as q to predecessors of mine who worked with 0:47:47.655 --> 0:47:50.695 mb in others to institute that. But it seems there's 0:47:50.735 --> 0:47:52.695 not enough clarity of that for it to be used 0:47:52.735 --> 0:47:54.855 as often as we want, and certainly in the case 0:47:54.895 --> 0:47:57.735 of multiproofs, which you know, by their nature are a 0:47:57.815 --> 0:48:00.375 consent that can be used many times over for the 0:48:00.455 --> 0:48:03.295 same design, but you know a number of different times 0:48:03.695 --> 0:48:06.055 in maybe slightly different ways. We want to unlock the 0:48:06.415 --> 0:48:08.535 the potential of that and to be able to say, well, 0:48:08.575 --> 0:48:11.295 you can do something that's relatively small. You know, it 0:48:11.375 --> 0:48:14.335 might be substituting a product, as I've said, but also 0:48:14.415 --> 0:48:16.695 maybe in terms of design, if you're swapping a window 0:48:16.735 --> 0:48:19.055 for a door in a way that doesn't compromise the 0:48:19.335 --> 0:48:23.015 structural integrity, or maybe even you know, the design is 0:48:23.055 --> 0:48:25.975 the same but a mirror image, or might want to 0:48:26.015 --> 0:48:29.095 be north facing, you know, to suit the particular location. 0:48:29.335 --> 0:48:31.495 You know, we want to unlock all those opportunities without 0:48:31.575 --> 0:48:34.415 having a burdens and process that is tough for you know, 0:48:34.495 --> 0:48:37.975 the builder himself with herself in the consumer, but also 0:48:38.015 --> 0:48:40.295 of course from a BC a point of view, the councils, 0:48:40.335 --> 0:48:42.015 the building con sem authorities. You know, if we can 0:48:42.095 --> 0:48:44.855 take a bit of workload off them and relatively mundane, 0:48:44.895 --> 0:48:46.975 small scale, low risk stuff, then of course they've got 0:48:47.055 --> 0:48:49.135 more resource to focus on that which they should genuinely 0:48:49.175 --> 0:48:50.455 be engaged at okay. 0:48:50.815 --> 0:48:53.935 One of your other comments is that, look, currently it 0:48:54.055 --> 0:48:57.175 can take six hundred days to go from consent to 0:48:57.455 --> 0:49:02.335 code compliance certificate. That's too long. It adds costs. Broadly speaking, 0:49:02.535 --> 0:49:03.855 what do you think can be done about that? 0:49:04.415 --> 0:49:06.895 Well, I think there are a few different opportunities. One 0:49:06.975 --> 0:49:08.935 of them I just mentioned in Passing a minute ago, 0:49:09.015 --> 0:49:12.415 which was in relation to inspections anecdotally at least, and 0:49:12.455 --> 0:49:14.495 we're also trying to get the data to back this up. 0:49:14.615 --> 0:49:19.015 But oftentimes an inspection is ready to be to take 0:49:19.055 --> 0:49:20.695 place from the point of view of the person doing 0:49:20.735 --> 0:49:24.215 the work, and they simply have delays in terms of 0:49:24.415 --> 0:49:26.615 the inspection being able to take place because that's the 0:49:26.615 --> 0:49:30.935 availability of the council officers in particularly. You know when 0:49:30.935 --> 0:49:32.815 you're adding delays, because then the next part of the 0:49:32.855 --> 0:49:36.375 work can't proceed until such time as the inspection takes place. 0:49:36.415 --> 0:49:38.415 In passes, then you go, well, if you had a 0:49:38.535 --> 0:49:43.495 more streamline version of the remote visual inspecting divisibility that 0:49:43.815 --> 0:49:46.615 some bcas are already using, of course, then you can say, well, 0:49:46.655 --> 0:49:48.375 you know, if you dial in provided this bit of 0:49:48.415 --> 0:49:50.695 internet coverage at both ends, you can actually get a 0:49:50.815 --> 0:49:53.895 really quick update. Yes, everything's okay, fine to proceed and 0:49:53.975 --> 0:49:55.975 go ahead. So that's one little piece of the puzzle. 0:49:56.055 --> 0:49:59.095 But more generally, the picture is to have processes that 0:49:59.695 --> 0:50:02.895 allocate risk appropriately so that we don't have these undue delays, 0:50:02.975 --> 0:50:06.215 which of course add costs, particularly in the highest interest 0:50:06.415 --> 0:50:08.215 environments such as we've had the last year. 0:50:08.175 --> 0:50:11.175 Or Sure, just on the remote inspections. From what I've read, 0:50:11.295 --> 0:50:15.015 it seems to be that you are instructing bcas to 0:50:15.775 --> 0:50:20.455 take remote inspections as the standard method rather than the exceptions. Now, 0:50:20.535 --> 0:50:23.775 over the years, I've done remote inspections, but it's tended 0:50:23.815 --> 0:50:25.775 to be a rarity. So do you want to swap 0:50:25.855 --> 0:50:26.295 that around? 0:50:26.575 --> 0:50:27.375 Yeah, very much. 0:50:27.935 --> 0:50:29.735 That very much a swapping around. 0:50:29.815 --> 0:50:31.615 And the word we've used as default, and we don't 0:50:31.655 --> 0:50:35.495 know exactly what that means, and that's why we're consulting Sure, 0:50:35.535 --> 0:50:37.415 you know, to make sure we get that detail right 0:50:37.615 --> 0:50:39.935 and to recognize that in most cases we think it 0:50:39.935 --> 0:50:42.295 will be suitable, but not all. So the question of 0:50:42.335 --> 0:50:44.455 what default means, you know, what are the times that 0:50:44.535 --> 0:50:46.375 we want to carve that out? In the three main 0:50:46.415 --> 0:50:48.775 areas that occur to me is one, if you've got 0:50:48.815 --> 0:50:51.055 a builder who's less experienced or you know, frankly, in 0:50:51.095 --> 0:50:53.695 a couple of cases, SAD is trustworthy, so that that 0:50:53.775 --> 0:50:55.855 might be a situation we might insist on on having 0:50:56.415 --> 0:50:58.375 in person inspections, or if I have to flip that 0:50:58.415 --> 0:51:00.735 around more positively, for those who are able to be trusted, 0:51:00.855 --> 0:51:03.855 you know, the credible, respectable and so on, and I've 0:51:03.895 --> 0:51:05.895 got a good track record, maybe you can take a 0:51:05.895 --> 0:51:08.295 bit more liberty, so to speak, in terms of that. 0:51:08.535 --> 0:51:09.055 So that's one. 0:51:09.135 --> 0:51:11.175 And it might be that there's particular types of building 0:51:11.295 --> 0:51:13.975 or stages in a building in which it's desirable to 0:51:14.055 --> 0:51:16.655 have someone physically turn up in person and do the 0:51:16.735 --> 0:51:21.175 moisture testing or whatever, or you know, poke around in 0:51:21.295 --> 0:51:26.135 a way that isn't so easy in terms of you know, 0:51:26.255 --> 0:51:29.015 that remote visual way. And then the final category, I suppose, 0:51:29.055 --> 0:51:31.015 at the risk of standing obvious, is when the technology 0:51:31.055 --> 0:51:34.775 isn't available builder himself or herself is not comfortable, you know, 0:51:34.895 --> 0:51:38.575 for teaching old dogs nutrients, and that's tough in I 0:51:38.615 --> 0:51:40.535 suppose in that same category as where there might be 0:51:40.775 --> 0:51:42.495 limitations around internet coverage and so on. 0:51:42.775 --> 0:51:46.775 Right, one of the relatively early announcements from you and 0:51:46.855 --> 0:51:49.455 from your office was to say we want to allow 0:51:49.615 --> 0:51:53.175 for the importation of building products that come from similar 0:51:53.255 --> 0:51:56.495 jurisdictions to ourselves, and they can come in and be 0:51:56.735 --> 0:51:59.975 used in restricted building work as long as you can 0:52:00.055 --> 0:52:01.975 prove that they come from a you know, have a 0:52:02.055 --> 0:52:05.215 testing regime that's similar to ours. So rather than I've 0:52:05.335 --> 0:52:07.255 said this on radio and of times, you know, I know, 0:52:08.535 --> 0:52:13.175 you know European manufacturer that makes silicon that brings it 0:52:13.255 --> 0:52:15.135 into New Zealand, then it has to go to brands 0:52:15.255 --> 0:52:17.775 or to code mark for testing and they've got fifty 0:52:17.855 --> 0:52:19.855 years of development. So is that the sort of thing 0:52:19.895 --> 0:52:22.935 that you're looking at saying, look, you know a factory 0:52:22.975 --> 0:52:25.615 in Belgium that's been manufacturing this for fifty years, they 0:52:25.655 --> 0:52:27.735 probably know what they're doing. They should be able to 0:52:27.735 --> 0:52:29.095 you should be able to use that product here. 0:52:29.255 --> 0:52:30.535 That's exactly what we're looking to do. 0:52:30.655 --> 0:52:33.375 Yeah, so I mean Belgium, I mean, I don't know, 0:52:33.895 --> 0:52:35.495 and not to prejudge it, but let's just say for 0:52:35.575 --> 0:52:37.615 arguments sake, we regard them as having a high standard 0:52:37.655 --> 0:52:41.335 of building. Their particular standards in relation to you know, 0:52:41.415 --> 0:52:45.935 whether it's waterproof, nature or strength or integrity are at 0:52:46.215 --> 0:52:48.895 as higher standard or higher than those in New Zealand. 0:52:48.935 --> 0:52:50.495 Then we say, well, there's no reason we shouldn't rely 0:52:50.615 --> 0:52:53.535 on those. So there's two elements. One is credible and 0:52:53.655 --> 0:52:55.295 that's what we've referred to in this case, and the 0:52:55.375 --> 0:52:58.055 other one is comfortable. So is it also the case 0:52:58.135 --> 0:53:01.095 that the jurisdiction, you know, the physical geography means that 0:53:01.215 --> 0:53:03.815 we can compare like for like, do they have seismic 0:53:03.895 --> 0:53:05.975 risk if we're talking about products that relate to structural 0:53:05.975 --> 0:53:08.735 and are they coastal in the same way that New 0:53:08.815 --> 0:53:13.935 Zealanders if we're relating to moisture in a way or 0:53:14.615 --> 0:53:17.495 high wind zones, neither see and so on. So it 0:53:17.535 --> 0:53:20.855 won't be uv absolutely good, good, good example. So that's 0:53:20.855 --> 0:53:22.535 the work that's going on at the moment. And if 0:53:22.575 --> 0:53:25.375 I had a dollar for every time that the devil 0:53:25.415 --> 0:53:27.495 in the detail was used in relation to that, then 0:53:27.575 --> 0:53:29.055 and we wouldn't need the building livery at all. But 0:53:29.935 --> 0:53:31.615 you know, that's that's the kind of work that we 0:53:31.695 --> 0:53:33.295 need to do at that detailed level to unlock you. 0:53:33.295 --> 0:53:34.375 Know, a whole heap of opportunity. 0:53:34.855 --> 0:53:37.015 So is that you can do that right now or 0:53:37.135 --> 0:53:40.255 is this legislation in place but not hasn't become law yet. 0:53:40.495 --> 0:53:41.815 Well, the legislation exists. 0:53:41.895 --> 0:53:44.655 So this this very week we have the opportunity, and 0:53:44.735 --> 0:53:46.575 in fact it will be in the coming few weeks 0:53:46.615 --> 0:53:48.455 that will have its first reading in Parliament, so the 0:53:48.535 --> 0:53:50.455 public will have a chance to have their say on that. 0:53:50.615 --> 0:53:53.055 And the idea of that legislation once it passes through 0:53:53.095 --> 0:53:55.535 the parliament early or mid next year is to say, 0:53:55.655 --> 0:53:57.495 now we've got a structure that says we can add 0:53:57.615 --> 0:54:01.295 in for example, Belgium or wherever we can take our time. 0:54:01.495 --> 0:54:04.015 Let's get the easy, low risk stuff across the line first. 0:54:04.615 --> 0:54:06.735 Let's get best bang for buck. You know, in some 0:54:07.255 --> 0:54:09.895 products will naturally be more able to be important. Just 0:54:10.255 --> 0:54:13.575 the shaer size and scale and geography in relation to 0:54:13.615 --> 0:54:18.175 supply chain issues will naturally lend the system to be 0:54:18.535 --> 0:54:20.575 really helpful in some cases, less helpful in others. But 0:54:20.815 --> 0:54:22.655 you know, we've got to do everything we can to 0:54:22.935 --> 0:54:24.695 try and get things moving in a way as I say, 0:54:24.735 --> 0:54:29.015 that doesn't compromise your safety, quality and sustainability. 0:54:28.375 --> 0:54:30.855 Right because you know we do. We don't have a 0:54:30.935 --> 0:54:34.055 great record with innovation. Sometimes in New Zealand, as soon 0:54:34.095 --> 0:54:35.855 as you start talking about it, people will talk about 0:54:35.855 --> 0:54:37.975 the leaky building crisis. And I'm sure that people are 0:54:37.975 --> 0:54:39.935 saying to you, hey, we don't want to go down 0:54:39.975 --> 0:54:40.575 that track again. 0:54:40.815 --> 0:54:44.575 Yeah, one hundred percent, and that's a very fair consideration. 0:54:45.335 --> 0:54:49.015 And of course without playing that off and saying for 0:54:49.055 --> 0:54:51.975 a second that we want to reduce quality or for 0:54:52.055 --> 0:54:55.055 that matter, sustainability or safety. We do also have an 0:54:55.055 --> 0:54:57.575 issue with building affordability in this country, so we don't 0:54:57.615 --> 0:54:59.575 have the luxury of saying everything's fine as it is, 0:55:00.055 --> 0:55:03.615 with construction costs having increase forty one percent since twenty nineteen, 0:55:03.655 --> 0:55:05.855 for example, and a whole range of other stats that 0:55:05.895 --> 0:55:08.015 we could reduce, the fact of the. 0:55:08.015 --> 0:55:09.735 Matter is we do need to do something different. 0:55:09.815 --> 0:55:11.895 But the good news is I think we can actually 0:55:11.975 --> 0:55:14.895 make some real productivity gains by opening up for competition 0:55:15.375 --> 0:55:17.535 rather than by lowering the standards that exist here in 0:55:17.575 --> 0:55:18.055 New Zealand. 0:55:18.695 --> 0:55:21.855 In terms of protecting the consumer, is the introduction of 0:55:21.935 --> 0:55:25.695 the building Product Information requirements part of that process, so 0:55:25.815 --> 0:55:27.615 that as a consumer I should be able to find 0:55:27.655 --> 0:55:30.095 out exactly what this is and what it's supposed to 0:55:30.135 --> 0:55:31.295 do easily. 0:55:31.895 --> 0:55:34.895 Yeah, I think that's very much the philosophy of that change. 0:55:34.935 --> 0:55:36.855 And to give credit where it's due, that came in 0:55:36.975 --> 0:55:40.655 prior to the current government and it's a good system 0:55:40.695 --> 0:55:43.495 we think overall, albeit with some nuance that we need 0:55:43.575 --> 0:55:48.415 to explore around the provenance of the materials. What I 0:55:48.495 --> 0:55:49.815 mean by that is what we don't want to do 0:55:49.895 --> 0:55:53.615 is have the unintended consequence whereby if a person we 0:55:53.815 --> 0:55:57.695 know an entity spends their time, the energy, their money 0:55:57.935 --> 0:55:59.855 investing and doing that due diligence to find a good 0:55:59.855 --> 0:56:02.815 product from overseas bring it to the market here, and 0:56:02.975 --> 0:56:06.495 if we require them to disclose that beyond obviously the 0:56:06.615 --> 0:56:09.175 characteristics of that product in the way that the consumer 0:56:09.215 --> 0:56:11.255 would want, then actually all you're doing is losing them 0:56:11.295 --> 0:56:14.215 their competitive advantage of the commercial sense, and of course 0:56:14.495 --> 0:56:16.295 the problem with that is then not going to be 0:56:16.335 --> 0:56:18.535 incentivised to do that. So we're looking at that aspect, 0:56:19.055 --> 0:56:21.415 and that was an issue that the National Paty and 0:56:21.455 --> 0:56:25.775 Opposition identified. But we think overall, in the interest of 0:56:26.455 --> 0:56:30.775 informed consent, a consumer choice, it's a good thing overall, 0:56:30.895 --> 0:56:33.055 and we certainly think that will align quite nicely with 0:56:33.135 --> 0:56:37.415 those opening up of competition and availability of the overseas 0:56:37.415 --> 0:56:38.815 products too cool. 0:56:40.895 --> 0:56:42.575 This is probably the biggest topic that I wanted to 0:56:42.655 --> 0:56:47.455 discuss with you. You have said, hey, I want MBI 0:56:47.855 --> 0:56:51.175 to go and urgently investigate the cost of the changes 0:56:51.215 --> 0:56:54.495 to H one of the Building Code, saying houses are 0:56:54.535 --> 0:56:58.255 costing up to fifty thousand dollars extra the quotas builders 0:56:58.295 --> 0:57:01.055 frequently raise concerns with me over the new requirements within 0:57:01.135 --> 0:57:03.855 Clause H one of the Building Code that they're adding 0:57:03.935 --> 0:57:06.055 tens of thousands of dollars onto the cost of a house. 0:57:06.295 --> 0:57:09.655 Also frequent reports of moisture and overheating, which are leading 0:57:09.695 --> 0:57:14.335 to increased energy uses, making these requirements counterproductive. Can we 0:57:14.735 --> 0:57:17.575 take a deep dive into this? First up, what's the 0:57:17.695 --> 0:57:20.055 thinking behind rolling back each one? 0:57:20.575 --> 0:57:23.135 Well, if you think about the purpose of what we're 0:57:23.175 --> 0:57:28.575 trying to do, it's to maintain quality, sustainability and health 0:57:28.615 --> 0:57:29.775 outcomes and so on. 0:57:29.895 --> 0:57:31.735 But also we need to have more affordable building. 0:57:31.855 --> 0:57:34.055 So it's a problem for me if I say that 0:57:34.095 --> 0:57:37.055 we need affordable building, but I hear reports for those 0:57:37.095 --> 0:57:39.855 who are intimately involved in the process, and as a 0:57:39.935 --> 0:57:41.815 committed to earlier you know, I'm listening to the people 0:57:41.815 --> 0:57:43.775 who are actually out there on the tools doing the 0:57:43.815 --> 0:57:46.175 work who tell me that you know, multiples of tens 0:57:46.175 --> 0:57:49.135 of thousands of dollars extra that you spend. And by 0:57:49.175 --> 0:57:51.215 the way, of course, any dollar that you spend you 0:57:51.575 --> 0:57:54.455 have to repay to the bank in a mortgage two 0:57:54.455 --> 0:57:56.735 and a half times, let's say easily, So you know, 0:57:56.775 --> 0:57:59.375 an additional twenty thousand dollars if it's as little as that, 0:57:59.775 --> 0:58:01.095 is fifty k that you've got to repay. 0:58:01.135 --> 0:58:02.695 So you know, we've got to take this really seriously. 0:58:02.815 --> 0:58:02.975 Yep. 0:58:03.135 --> 0:58:07.655 So I can't in good conscience are those issues that 0:58:07.735 --> 0:58:10.215 are raised with me, and including when you get to 0:58:10.495 --> 0:58:13.175 you know, particularly further north in the warmer climbs, and 0:58:13.295 --> 0:58:16.615 you get the moisture issues arising from the fact that 0:58:16.655 --> 0:58:20.535 we've got insulation requirements out of step with ventilation requirements. 0:58:20.615 --> 0:58:22.815 So it seems to me there's a problem. We're reviewing 0:58:22.855 --> 0:58:25.015 that because we want to see exactly how beast we 0:58:25.015 --> 0:58:26.815 should handle that, And look, I want to take a 0:58:26.935 --> 0:58:28.935 nuanced approach. I don't want to be in a zone 0:58:28.935 --> 0:58:31.055 where we have to take a binary approach of rolling 0:58:31.095 --> 0:58:33.295 it back entirely and suddenly we're back when we were 0:58:33.375 --> 0:58:36.335 late last year. And certainly there's no question that we 0:58:36.455 --> 0:58:38.695 go all the way back to the mid nineteen seventies 0:58:38.735 --> 0:58:40.695 when there's no requirement at all. So let's just you know, 0:58:40.895 --> 0:58:43.895 not engage with that straw man. But you know, if 0:58:43.935 --> 0:58:45.815 we say that, it might be that we need more 0:58:45.815 --> 0:58:48.295 of a differentiation in New Zealand, so that in Northland, 0:58:48.335 --> 0:58:50.615 for example, where the local mirror is rightly concerned about 0:58:50.615 --> 0:58:54.655 the affordability and frankly the usefulness of the regulation, versus Southland, 0:58:54.735 --> 0:58:57.855 you know, we need a nuanced approach. Geographically, it might 0:58:57.935 --> 0:59:01.015 be that we need to point people more towards modeling 0:59:01.135 --> 0:59:03.935 and calculation methods which allow more nuanced as opposed to 0:59:03.975 --> 0:59:07.015 saying here's a schedule that means that the following boxes 0:59:07.095 --> 0:59:09.735 must be ticked regardless of the additional cost, which is, 0:59:09.815 --> 0:59:11.735 you know, at a quick and dirty route, but isn't 0:59:11.735 --> 0:59:14.135 getting those good results. And then finally, the other sort 0:59:14.175 --> 0:59:16.455 of exerc I suppose on which we could slide the 0:59:16.495 --> 0:59:18.935 scale one way or the other is to say, well, 0:59:18.975 --> 0:59:21.375 it might be within the schedule method where it says, 0:59:21.415 --> 0:59:24.895 you know, literally, according to a matrix, this is the 0:59:24.935 --> 0:59:27.935 family broken window, this is the concrete slab with insulation. 0:59:28.255 --> 0:59:29.855 Then we say, well, maybe some of those are better 0:59:29.895 --> 0:59:31.775 being for back than others. And so we're a bit 0:59:31.855 --> 0:59:34.335 less prescriptive in terms of how those would be used. 0:59:35.415 --> 0:59:38.215 Because much of the response what I've found fascinating and 0:59:38.295 --> 0:59:40.535 I really have enjoyed this. Part of the sort of 0:59:40.575 --> 0:59:43.735 public discourse on this issue is that we've had lots 0:59:43.735 --> 0:59:46.895 of groups come forward and kind of put their colors 0:59:46.895 --> 0:59:50.975 to the mast. Right. They've gone, Hey, Green Building Council, brands, 0:59:52.055 --> 0:59:55.655 News of Building Surveys, Passive House Institute, a whole bunch 0:59:55.695 --> 0:59:58.215 of industry bodies have all come forward and said, we 0:59:58.335 --> 1:00:00.895 don't think this is a good idea. There is no 1:00:01.135 --> 1:00:04.655 need to wind back the H one regulations. But they 1:00:04.695 --> 1:00:07.015 have also gone on to talk about exactly what you've 1:00:07.055 --> 1:00:09.895 talked about. The schedule method is what I think has 1:00:09.975 --> 1:00:13.295 kind of tripped everybody up, because suddenly outcomes you've got 1:00:13.335 --> 1:00:16.335 to have R six point six in the ceilings everywhere 1:00:16.375 --> 1:00:20.095 across the country, regardless of climatic zones. And you've got 1:00:20.175 --> 1:00:23.455 trust manufacturers freaking out and building different trustes. You've got 1:00:23.495 --> 1:00:26.335 developers thinking I can't make my house next one hundred 1:00:26.335 --> 1:00:29.935 and fifty millimeters higher, and so on. I'm just wondering 1:00:29.975 --> 1:00:31.335 whether some of the people that might have got in 1:00:31.495 --> 1:00:35.335 urea about these changes to H one are also those 1:00:35.415 --> 1:00:38.415 people who just want to use the schedule method. Why 1:00:38.455 --> 1:00:40.775 don't we just ditch the schedule method and tell everyone 1:00:40.855 --> 1:00:42.495 to use the calculation and modeling method. 1:00:42.895 --> 1:00:45.575 That's a option on the table, and we're viewing precisely 1:00:45.615 --> 1:00:47.335 because we want to know the right approach, and it 1:00:47.455 --> 1:00:51.055 might well be that that's the really straightforward method to 1:00:51.175 --> 1:00:51.655 take forward. 1:00:51.735 --> 1:00:53.615 But having said that, I would just say, at the 1:00:53.695 --> 1:00:54.055 risk of. 1:00:54.255 --> 1:00:57.895 Immediately undermining my own point, which is essentially endorsing yours, 1:00:58.535 --> 1:01:01.415 is that we also have to think, then, well, you know, 1:01:02.015 --> 1:01:04.655 does everyone have access to the calculation and modeling method. 1:01:04.815 --> 1:01:06.975 The funny thing is I've sat down with the Green 1:01:07.015 --> 1:01:10.535 Building Council and looked at that, and actually it's looks reasoningly. 1:01:10.215 --> 1:01:13.375 Straight, really be honest, but people don't know that and. 1:01:13.375 --> 1:01:15.055 Aren't prepared to use it, then we need to bring 1:01:15.135 --> 1:01:17.215 them along with us, because come moment, it is just 1:01:17.255 --> 1:01:20.815 a binary discussion, which is frankly unhelpful. And you know, 1:01:20.895 --> 1:01:22.415 when people weigh in on one side or the other 1:01:22.535 --> 1:01:25.535 and make inflammatory comments, then we're not going to get 1:01:25.535 --> 1:01:27.575 a good public policy outcome. And I'm committed to that, 1:01:27.615 --> 1:01:29.695 and I don't I'm not sort of going to resolve 1:01:29.735 --> 1:01:29.975 from that. 1:01:30.295 --> 1:01:33.495 Yeah, And look, I would agree with you. I think 1:01:33.935 --> 1:01:35.775 I can sort of understand and I like to try 1:01:35.815 --> 1:01:37.655 and take a step back and go, you know, why 1:01:37.735 --> 1:01:38.695 do we have the rules that we have? 1:01:38.935 --> 1:01:39.055 Right? 1:01:39.455 --> 1:01:41.655 And I've always taken that approach that, you know, as 1:01:41.695 --> 1:01:44.095 someone who has to obey the rules in terms of building, 1:01:44.415 --> 1:01:46.215 I'm always curious as to why do we have the 1:01:46.335 --> 1:01:48.055 rule that we have most of the time and the 1:01:48.095 --> 1:01:51.215 building X starts because we want to protect the people 1:01:51.255 --> 1:01:53.895 that inhabit that space. So that's sort of where I 1:01:53.935 --> 1:01:55.615 start from. And then I look at the schedule method 1:01:55.655 --> 1:01:59.015 and go, well, I understand that we still want sort 1:01:59.055 --> 1:02:02.495 of simplistic, in the best possible way approach to building. 1:02:02.495 --> 1:02:04.175 Where we go you should be able to take three 1:02:04.255 --> 1:02:06.295 six o four, open it up and build a house, 1:02:06.775 --> 1:02:09.255 and we don't want to let go of that. But 1:02:09.575 --> 1:02:13.135 maybe that's because we do need to build better than 1:02:13.175 --> 1:02:15.655 you can just build by opening a book. So I 1:02:15.735 --> 1:02:19.735 think the modeling and calculation method it's not as indecipherable 1:02:19.775 --> 1:02:22.655 as it was years ago. I can almost understand it 1:02:22.895 --> 1:02:23.095 to be. 1:02:23.135 --> 1:02:25.415 Blad Well, that's a ringing endorsement. 1:02:25.615 --> 1:02:28.815 So that's a point where I made thank you the Minister. 1:02:28.655 --> 1:02:30.935 Chris Pink with me in the studio today. Will be 1:02:31.055 --> 1:02:34.655 back after the break. I want to just off the 1:02:35.735 --> 1:02:38.015 back of something you mentioned there, the binary thing. One 1:02:38.055 --> 1:02:41.135 of the things that I found fascinating, having been engaged 1:02:41.175 --> 1:02:44.655 with the industry for as long and promoting discussion, is 1:02:44.775 --> 1:02:47.015 that we do tend to have a real binary approach 1:02:47.095 --> 1:02:49.375 that as soon as I say I've got an idea, 1:02:50.015 --> 1:02:53.015 the instant response from another part of the sector is, yeah, 1:02:53.055 --> 1:02:55.175 but I've got an idea, And because we've both got 1:02:55.255 --> 1:02:57.495 an idea, one of them's got to be wrong. Are 1:02:57.575 --> 1:03:00.175 you fighting your way through that? Are you finding that? 1:03:00.495 --> 1:03:01.455 Yeah, there's a little bit of that. 1:03:01.575 --> 1:03:04.775 You know, there's least of that with those who are 1:03:04.775 --> 1:03:08.495 actively engaged in buildings find really interesting, you know, the commentariat, 1:03:08.655 --> 1:03:11.735 and you know, frankly, those who approach these questions from 1:03:11.775 --> 1:03:14.295 a political or an ideological lens, they are the ones 1:03:14.335 --> 1:03:16.255 who are really binary because they've got some sort of 1:03:16.615 --> 1:03:19.935 point to prove one way or the other. And actually, 1:03:20.175 --> 1:03:22.735 the most helpful thing is to engage reasonably with people 1:03:22.735 --> 1:03:25.615 who are in the game using these methods. 1:03:25.775 --> 1:03:28.015 In the case of the H one question, YEP to 1:03:28.055 --> 1:03:28.575 be resolved. 1:03:28.895 --> 1:03:31.095 And actually, you know, I think there is a lot 1:03:31.095 --> 1:03:32.495 of good will out there to do things better, but 1:03:32.695 --> 1:03:35.495 no one wants to build a house that's leaky or 1:03:35.575 --> 1:03:38.095 damp or cold and so on, you know, and it 1:03:38.215 --> 1:03:40.215 amuses me when you know, I've received quite a lot 1:03:40.215 --> 1:03:43.135 of quite shorty emails, as you can imagine. And you know, 1:03:44.015 --> 1:03:46.015 one category was, oh, you know, I grew up in 1:03:46.055 --> 1:03:48.135 the mid ninety seventies and it was under insulation. I said, well, 1:03:48.175 --> 1:03:50.495 that's lovely, but with all due respect, that's not at 1:03:50.495 --> 1:03:51.415 all on the table. 1:03:51.535 --> 1:03:52.135 At number two. 1:03:53.135 --> 1:03:55.215 You know, there was also the category that says, oh, 1:03:55.255 --> 1:03:56.815 you know, I've lived in a house for the last 1:03:56.855 --> 1:03:59.255 five years. That's really good because it's insulated and got 1:03:59.335 --> 1:04:02.215 double glazing, and that's really important we retain that. And 1:04:02.255 --> 1:04:04.495 I said, well, that's lovely, because actually that's the method 1:04:04.655 --> 1:04:07.135 that's you know, at most we're going to particially go 1:04:07.255 --> 1:04:09.815 back to. So, if anything, they've endorsed my approach, even 1:04:09.815 --> 1:04:11.735 though they've come at it from quite an aggressive political 1:04:11.775 --> 1:04:14.295 angle to to point out how how bad and wrong 1:04:14.415 --> 1:04:15.215 I am in my thinking. 1:04:15.335 --> 1:04:17.695 So you know, I'm not bothered by that. I know 1:04:17.775 --> 1:04:18.495 that we need great. 1:04:18.335 --> 1:04:21.295 Affordability as well as the sustainability et cetera, et cetera. 1:04:21.975 --> 1:04:23.895 So I'm determined we can get there. And I really 1:04:23.935 --> 1:04:25.855 think if we listen to the people who are engaged 1:04:26.495 --> 1:04:28.295 in doing this work because they approach the question in 1:04:28.295 --> 1:04:30.415 good faith, they know the costs involved will get to 1:04:30.415 --> 1:04:30.895 a good place. 1:04:31.175 --> 1:04:33.415 So obviously, all of this discussion around H one and 1:04:33.495 --> 1:04:36.855 any change that might be made, when what's the timeline 1:04:36.895 --> 1:04:38.615 for that, well, the reviews. 1:04:38.415 --> 1:04:42.375 Taking place as we speak, and then after that depending 1:04:42.415 --> 1:04:44.415 on what the result is, and and you know, the 1:04:45.255 --> 1:04:48.535 political decision making, which I can't really prejudge in terms 1:04:48.575 --> 1:04:52.095 of time frame or result. You know that that's a 1:04:52.135 --> 1:04:53.895 little bit how long is a piece of string kind 1:04:53.895 --> 1:04:56.415 of question, but it would it could be quite a 1:04:56.575 --> 1:04:59.775 quite a quick change because it's such a regulation rather 1:04:59.775 --> 1:05:01.415 than needing an active parliament, so it could be a 1:05:01.495 --> 1:05:05.175 matter of months as opposed to you know years. 1:05:05.215 --> 1:05:09.095 Okay, your sense of where it might go at this stage. 1:05:09.935 --> 1:05:12.895 I'd be surprised if we end up with exactly what 1:05:12.935 --> 1:05:15.095 we've got now, but I'd also be surprised if we 1:05:15.215 --> 1:05:17.015 were to roll it back entirely. And you know, I've 1:05:17.015 --> 1:05:19.175 got to be careful. I don't predge sure discussions by 1:05:19.215 --> 1:05:21.455 the Manistereoc colleagues, so maybe I'm about out and know 1:05:21.575 --> 1:05:27.295 them even expressing that expectation but we'll end that was something. 1:05:27.495 --> 1:05:29.815 I think it's going to keep everyone happy right now. 1:05:29.895 --> 1:05:32.455 This might be more in Chris Bishop's realm, but the 1:05:32.775 --> 1:05:37.055 sixty square meter granny flat, and I don't find that 1:05:37.135 --> 1:05:39.535 an offensive term. I think people the reason that they 1:05:39.575 --> 1:05:42.775 were built in originally nineteen sixties and got that phrase 1:05:42.935 --> 1:05:46.935 was because ideally they were a minor dwelling that allowed 1:05:47.095 --> 1:05:49.295 family members to live there on the same property. So, 1:05:50.615 --> 1:05:52.495 for want of a better term, let's still kill them 1:05:52.535 --> 1:05:56.735 granny flats and not be upset about that. How much 1:05:56.815 --> 1:05:59.095 of a difference do you think that might make in 1:05:59.215 --> 1:06:03.455 terms of either supply, affordability and so on. There's obviously 1:06:03.535 --> 1:06:04.255 been some research. 1:06:04.415 --> 1:06:06.895 Yeah, it'll make a difference in two ways. And by 1:06:06.895 --> 1:06:09.255 the way, I've got to give credit to New Zealand first, 1:06:09.335 --> 1:06:11.375 with whom when combustion this was an idea very much 1:06:11.575 --> 1:06:13.775 pushed forward by them, and Chris Bishop and I are 1:06:13.775 --> 1:06:17.615 both really keen on getting it, you know, into the 1:06:17.655 --> 1:06:19.895 statute book the laws land as soon as possible, so 1:06:19.975 --> 1:06:22.335 he owns the resource management side effectively and then the 1:06:22.375 --> 1:06:25.135 building construction side relating to building consens is the bit 1:06:25.215 --> 1:06:28.055 that I have, so you know, and it's a joint 1:06:28.135 --> 1:06:28.815 venture obviously. 1:06:29.095 --> 1:06:30.575 Look, I think it'll make a difference in two ways. 1:06:30.855 --> 1:06:33.255 One is that it will provide a bit more housing 1:06:33.895 --> 1:06:37.495 supply and therefore affordability. In a related point to that 1:06:37.815 --> 1:06:40.335 is that it provides a bit of extra work for 1:06:40.375 --> 1:06:42.655 a construction sector that is asking for a pipeline. It's 1:06:42.735 --> 1:06:44.895 asking for some quick ones, and by quick I mean 1:06:44.935 --> 1:06:46.415 by the way not having to wait for a resource 1:06:46.455 --> 1:06:47.575 concent and the building consent. 1:06:47.735 --> 1:06:48.975 They'll be able to get on and. 1:06:49.015 --> 1:06:51.255 Do it, you know, the day after that law has passed, 1:06:51.455 --> 1:06:53.175 or actually if the smart and working in an off 1:06:53.215 --> 1:06:54.775 site kind of man, that could be doing it right now. 1:06:55.735 --> 1:06:57.135 So it's a little bit of a quick and dirty 1:06:57.215 --> 1:07:01.135 way of providing some assurance and frankly, some work to 1:07:01.215 --> 1:07:03.455 a sector that's crying out for it right now. And 1:07:03.535 --> 1:07:05.935 then the other category is actually I think more interesting 1:07:05.975 --> 1:07:09.095 in a way because there's a bigger picture testing of 1:07:09.135 --> 1:07:11.695 a hypothesis that says, if you've got a structure that 1:07:11.855 --> 1:07:14.655 is relatively low risk because we're talking about a single story, 1:07:15.215 --> 1:07:18.575 you know, relatively small, an existing parcel of land, so 1:07:18.655 --> 1:07:21.415 it's not difficult from a development point of view, you know, 1:07:21.455 --> 1:07:24.735 and hopefully not geotechnically either that actually you don't need 1:07:24.815 --> 1:07:27.375 to have that sign off by way of either type 1:07:27.415 --> 1:07:28.895 of consent. So it's a bit of a testing of 1:07:28.975 --> 1:07:33.335 the model of a trusted provider being trusted and having 1:07:33.375 --> 1:07:37.535 that qualification be it licensed building practitioner, plumber, guess for 1:07:37.655 --> 1:07:40.375 a drain layer, eltrician and so on, doing that work, 1:07:40.855 --> 1:07:44.055 simply providing the answer to council. And you know, look, 1:07:44.095 --> 1:07:47.015 it's not gonna completely change the game in either of 1:07:47.055 --> 1:07:48.375 those ways, but we think it's a step in the 1:07:48.455 --> 1:07:49.175 right direction. 1:07:50.015 --> 1:07:52.135 Just in terms of council. One of the things that 1:07:52.775 --> 1:07:55.735 may not necessarily it's not necessarily building in construction, but 1:07:55.815 --> 1:07:58.295 it impacts on all of us who are building is 1:07:58.735 --> 1:08:01.575 councils and the relationship that we have with counsel, either 1:08:01.655 --> 1:08:06.015 through the consenting the inspection process. And again taking a 1:08:06.015 --> 1:08:09.775 step back, what I've come to appreciate is that ultimately, 1:08:09.895 --> 1:08:12.815 when things go wrong and the developer's gone and the 1:08:12.855 --> 1:08:15.655 business has gone, and the product manufacturer has gone, it's 1:08:15.815 --> 1:08:20.055 counsel that our last man standing. And that relates to 1:08:20.175 --> 1:08:23.215 that whole thing around joined and several liability. So if 1:08:23.335 --> 1:08:26.375 you were the person who's always going to hold the 1:08:26.495 --> 1:08:30.575 can you would be incredibly cautious and that's what counsels are, right. 1:08:31.935 --> 1:08:35.455 So is there a way forward that you were the 1:08:35.495 --> 1:08:39.015 government of thinking about where maybe we change joint and 1:08:39.175 --> 1:08:40.135 several liability? 1:08:41.255 --> 1:08:43.615 In short, yes, I don't think the system works well 1:08:43.815 --> 1:08:45.095 as that is currently designed. 1:08:45.375 --> 1:08:46.735 And this is not a new idea, by the way. 1:08:46.735 --> 1:08:49.895 I think sure previous ministers have made noises in this 1:08:50.015 --> 1:08:52.975 regard and haven't ultimately gone through and done that. And 1:08:53.055 --> 1:08:55.255 you know, it's a government decision that I can't prejudge again, 1:08:55.375 --> 1:08:57.495 but suffice to say, we do recognize the problem and 1:08:57.775 --> 1:08:59.695 we're keen to do something about it. So if the 1:08:59.735 --> 1:09:02.135 problem is a lack of certainty and consistency from the 1:09:02.215 --> 1:09:03.935 point of view of those who are doing the building 1:09:04.095 --> 1:09:07.015 and an in frustration of getting different interpretations of the 1:09:07.055 --> 1:09:10.055 same building code according to which side of a council 1:09:10.375 --> 1:09:12.615 boundary you're on, or if you take the point of 1:09:12.695 --> 1:09:15.415 view of council as a building consent authority, as you 1:09:15.535 --> 1:09:17.615 rightly point out, they have to be cautious, you know, 1:09:17.655 --> 1:09:19.055 and as rate payers we should thank them for that 1:09:19.175 --> 1:09:21.575 because to be the last man standing, which is to say, 1:09:22.055 --> 1:09:24.255 to have joint and several liability, which could mean one 1:09:24.375 --> 1:09:26.215 hundred percent of the cost of a defect in the 1:09:26.255 --> 1:09:30.855 event that the developers pockets and the builders last seen 1:09:30.935 --> 1:09:32.415 on the horizon in a puff. 1:09:32.175 --> 1:09:33.615 Of smoke with the ute and dog. 1:09:34.295 --> 1:09:36.535 Then actually, you know that there's a huge responsibility for 1:09:36.615 --> 1:09:40.255 a council, and some councils well resourced to do that. 1:09:41.135 --> 1:09:44.775 They might have a rate payer base and a staffing 1:09:44.895 --> 1:09:48.455 resource that and therefore some specialization within that that supports it. 1:09:48.735 --> 1:09:49.695 Others much smaller. 1:09:50.375 --> 1:09:54.375 Frankly, it's a huge burden on them, and they would 1:09:54.415 --> 1:09:55.095 rather be shot of it. 1:09:55.135 --> 1:09:56.375 I think, all of them, to be honest. 1:09:56.455 --> 1:09:58.935 And it's never the case that I meet with local 1:09:58.975 --> 1:10:01.615 government and they don't raise this with me. So I think, 1:10:01.775 --> 1:10:04.175 you know, there are other models we could explore. One 1:10:04.775 --> 1:10:06.175 has been put out there as in sort of a 1:10:06.415 --> 1:10:07.615 more of a national kind. 1:10:07.495 --> 1:10:09.095 Of consenting authority. 1:10:09.415 --> 1:10:12.215 Maybe is to sort of funnel applications and get the 1:10:12.535 --> 1:10:16.455 certainty and consistency that way. Or it might be that 1:10:16.575 --> 1:10:18.855 we have more of a market based system where the 1:10:18.935 --> 1:10:22.255 private certifiers who already do the work as contracted by 1:10:22.335 --> 1:10:25.775 the existing building content authorities might be able to be 1:10:25.775 --> 1:10:27.935 approached directly. Now we've got to be careful of course, 1:10:28.015 --> 1:10:30.735 whatever the system design is that we are providing a 1:10:30.815 --> 1:10:35.775 genuine assurance on top of you know, the builder developer 1:10:35.895 --> 1:10:36.895 marking their own homework. 1:10:37.495 --> 1:10:39.495 But by the time you add and you know, some 1:10:39.775 --> 1:10:40.135 kind of. 1:10:41.615 --> 1:10:46.455 Disciplines around insurance, credibility, balance sheet that enable us to 1:10:46.495 --> 1:10:48.375 trust some more than others. Maybe it's the case that 1:10:48.735 --> 1:10:52.095 we can be a bit more forward looking in terms 1:10:52.135 --> 1:10:55.135 of the way that we require things to be certified 1:10:55.135 --> 1:10:57.695 by a council. Because you know, they hate this, you 1:10:57.775 --> 1:10:59.495 know this is this is bad news for them. I've 1:10:59.495 --> 1:11:01.935 got all the risk, none of the reward, and I 1:11:02.015 --> 1:11:04.095 think they'll be you know, looking forward to conversation that 1:11:04.135 --> 1:11:06.855 we're having, I think quite soon in the public's us. 1:11:06.895 --> 1:11:08.655 You know, we're not the other the only sort of 1:11:08.935 --> 1:11:11.895 western first world nation that builds houses, right, So look 1:11:11.935 --> 1:11:14.055 around the world and there's different models and a lot 1:11:14.095 --> 1:11:16.575 of them seem to be focused on insurance. 1:11:16.695 --> 1:11:16.815 Right. 1:11:17.015 --> 1:11:21.055 So as a contractor, I can't build without insurance. If 1:11:21.095 --> 1:11:24.255 I'm a designer, I can't do that without insurance. All 1:11:24.295 --> 1:11:27.095 of the contractors are insured. If there's a problem, the 1:11:27.175 --> 1:11:31.015 homeowner rings the insurance company and they chase the contractor. 1:11:31.135 --> 1:11:31.935 Is that a way forward? 1:11:32.615 --> 1:11:33.655 It's a possible way forward. 1:11:33.735 --> 1:11:35.775 Yeah, I think the role of insurance is something we 1:11:36.015 --> 1:11:38.455 need to think about as an exercise and risk galication. 1:11:38.615 --> 1:11:40.495 And of course all these questions are the ones at 1:11:40.535 --> 1:11:43.935 risk galication, so very fair to ask the question. I 1:11:44.015 --> 1:11:45.895 think in terms of comparing that with some of the 1:11:46.015 --> 1:11:50.015 systems overseas, we do have a smaller market in New Zealand, 1:11:50.055 --> 1:11:53.295 so we're less attractive immediately to insurers. We're also very 1:11:53.335 --> 1:11:57.095 hazard prone if you think about the direct relationship of 1:11:57.215 --> 1:12:01.975 our earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, tsunamis and all that exposure that 1:12:02.055 --> 1:12:04.375 you have in New Zealand, more so than in every 1:12:04.455 --> 1:12:04.935 country in the. 1:12:04.935 --> 1:12:05.935 World other than Bangladesh. 1:12:05.975 --> 1:12:08.135 By the way, you know, from an assurance point of view, 1:12:08.455 --> 1:12:11.815 we're not that attractive to ensure building works. So I 1:12:11.935 --> 1:12:14.575 think it would need to be a nuanced conversation. But actually, 1:12:14.615 --> 1:12:16.775 I mean I've been having it already with a number 1:12:16.775 --> 1:12:20.015 of key players and excuse me, an insurance sector. Yeah, 1:12:20.015 --> 1:12:21.455 because if they're not if they're not up for it, 1:12:21.575 --> 1:12:23.895 then they ain't gonna work. But having said that, if 1:12:23.935 --> 1:12:26.375 there's an assurance they can provide, you know, the professional 1:12:26.375 --> 1:12:31.215 indemnity that you've already referenced that that some occupational licensing 1:12:31.335 --> 1:12:34.295 goes along with then then yeah, let's let's think. 1:12:34.215 --> 1:12:36.055 About how that can fit in, because I think there's 1:12:36.055 --> 1:12:39.215 another advantage that as well, which is also regulating the industry, 1:12:39.335 --> 1:12:42.015 because if you are a person that does poor quality 1:12:42.095 --> 1:12:44.295 work and you've had a number of claims, then maybe 1:12:44.375 --> 1:12:47.495 you won't get licensed or you won't get insurance, and 1:12:47.535 --> 1:12:50.495 therefore you won't be working. And you know, I'm sure 1:12:50.535 --> 1:12:53.215 that you've seen shoddy work. I certainly have, and we 1:12:53.375 --> 1:12:55.255 need to be able to get rid of people like 1:12:55.375 --> 1:12:56.735 that from the industry. 1:12:56.935 --> 1:12:59.735 Absolutely, And I think that's a really good point to make, 1:12:59.775 --> 1:13:02.255 because the quid pro quo of trusting those who are 1:13:02.295 --> 1:13:04.415 credible and respectable is actually maybe we need to be 1:13:04.455 --> 1:13:07.135 a lot harder on those that are use the shorthand 1:13:07.215 --> 1:13:10.415 vernacular cowboys and who are ripping people off, who are 1:13:10.695 --> 1:13:14.415 making us nervous from a whole system perspective, as well 1:13:14.455 --> 1:13:17.815 as leaving people very vulnerable to do with the value 1:13:17.935 --> 1:13:20.535 of their biggest asset they'll ever own, and know as 1:13:20.575 --> 1:13:23.375 relatively unsophisticated people who need a roof to live under 1:13:23.375 --> 1:13:25.455 the head, they've got to make a decision, and we've 1:13:25.495 --> 1:13:27.295 got to provide some protection and actually a little bit 1:13:27.295 --> 1:13:30.055 of that could be the stick as well as the carrot. 1:13:29.815 --> 1:13:31.855 In terms of those who are doing good work and 1:13:31.935 --> 1:13:34.255 those who aren't. And you know, frankly, if we have 1:13:34.335 --> 1:13:35.055 a situation at the. 1:13:35.055 --> 1:13:38.575 Moment where you have a couple of pretty poor practitioners 1:13:38.575 --> 1:13:42.255 who are going around ruining various different building projects and 1:13:42.615 --> 1:13:44.615 leaving a trail of heartache, you know we need. 1:13:44.535 --> 1:13:45.215 To weed them out. 1:13:45.295 --> 1:13:48.415 So I'm unreally keen to try and do that as 1:13:48.455 --> 1:13:51.615 part of an overall reform that sees rusk allicated appropriately. 1:13:52.135 --> 1:13:55.695 The LBP scheme has been around since I got registered 1:13:55.735 --> 1:13:58.975 in twenty twelve. It's probably around a little bit longer 1:13:59.015 --> 1:14:02.415 than that. Do you see scope to extend or expand that? 1:14:02.615 --> 1:14:04.775 Like one of the vision for it seemed to have 1:14:04.855 --> 1:14:08.415 been that if you like myself, I've got a site 1:14:08.495 --> 1:14:12.415 license and a carpentry license. Therefore I'm seen as responsible 1:14:12.495 --> 1:14:15.735 and professional and all the rest of it. Hopefully, so 1:14:16.575 --> 1:14:19.895 should I be able to take on more responsibility and 1:14:20.415 --> 1:14:23.535 do more of my own inspections or have lesser inspections 1:14:23.615 --> 1:14:26.095 to do? You know, is that something you'd look at 1:14:26.255 --> 1:14:27.895 extending the LBP scheme. 1:14:28.095 --> 1:14:31.135 Potentially I think we need to make the system meaningful. 1:14:31.415 --> 1:14:32.935 You know, there's got to be some reason to have 1:14:33.015 --> 1:14:35.535 that status. And if it means, for example, in relation 1:14:35.615 --> 1:14:39.375 to the Grandy Flat proposal, that it is LBPS as 1:14:39.415 --> 1:14:42.055 opposed to anyone else who might rock up and fancy 1:14:42.055 --> 1:14:43.535 their ability to whack a couple of bits of wore 1:14:43.575 --> 1:14:45.815 by two together, then then we say, well, that's meaningful, 1:14:45.975 --> 1:14:48.695 and therefore we need to check that we've got the 1:14:48.775 --> 1:14:54.015 standards and the robustness of that certification. And so that's 1:14:54.055 --> 1:14:56.095 an example of how I think we can actually force 1:14:56.135 --> 1:14:59.375 people to take it seriously and then not saying it's 1:14:59.415 --> 1:15:00.935 not taken seriously at the moment, but you know, it's 1:15:00.935 --> 1:15:02.535 got to be meaningful. There's got to be some weight 1:15:02.615 --> 1:15:05.775 attached to that sure, and because it seems to me 1:15:05.855 --> 1:15:08.295 that there's a an amount of restricted building work quite 1:15:08.375 --> 1:15:10.935 unquote that has actually undertaken under supervision in a way 1:15:10.975 --> 1:15:13.415 that's not necessarily reflecting that. 1:15:13.495 --> 1:15:15.855 Kind of level of assurance we want. But I also 1:15:15.935 --> 1:15:16.895 think this fits into a. 1:15:16.895 --> 1:15:20.135 Broader question that we're also looking at, which is self certification, 1:15:20.375 --> 1:15:23.855 so that anomally, for example, that plumbers can't self certify. 1:15:23.975 --> 1:15:26.335 You know, I understand that's going to change though. Yeah, 1:15:26.375 --> 1:15:27.175 and we've seen plumbers. 1:15:27.335 --> 1:15:30.455 We've said that openly, and you know, it does seem 1:15:30.455 --> 1:15:32.935 an anomaly that they don't have that level of trust 1:15:32.975 --> 1:15:36.055 competing with for example, electricians or a guess who have 1:15:36.135 --> 1:15:37.935 done the same with trade who may be the same 1:15:38.015 --> 1:15:41.415 person but doing network, you know, in that different place 1:15:41.495 --> 1:15:43.135 on the site. So you know, we want to remove 1:15:43.175 --> 1:15:44.775 those anomalies. We want to move in the direction of 1:15:44.815 --> 1:15:49.015 trusting people who have proven through qualification and experience, professional 1:15:49.095 --> 1:15:51.495 body membership and so on, that they can be trusted. 1:15:52.295 --> 1:15:56.295 It's fair to say, like every incoming government, people arrive 1:15:56.375 --> 1:15:59.055 with a whole bunch of ideas, and it seems that 1:15:59.135 --> 1:16:01.455 you and all of your colleagues have all come in 1:16:01.615 --> 1:16:05.295 with things that they want to change. So you, for 1:16:05.655 --> 1:16:08.415 your role, give me your top five things that you 1:16:08.495 --> 1:16:12.255 want to change as Minister for Housing and Construction or 1:16:12.255 --> 1:16:13.095 Building the construct. 1:16:13.175 --> 1:16:13.335 Yeah. 1:16:13.575 --> 1:16:15.575 Yeah, we've talked about a couple of them already and 1:16:15.695 --> 1:16:17.975 I think you know, with as you could probably hear 1:16:17.975 --> 1:16:19.975 in my voice and hopefully your listeners can too, some 1:16:20.095 --> 1:16:23.695 passion around you know, reforming systems to make it easier 1:16:24.135 --> 1:16:26.175 and more affordable to build. So part of that is 1:16:26.175 --> 1:16:28.615 the product thing, and you know, if we elevate that 1:16:28.655 --> 1:16:31.655 to high level, it's all about competition, as recommended by 1:16:31.655 --> 1:16:34.255 the Commerce Commission. And then you talk about the Grani flax, 1:16:34.335 --> 1:16:35.815 which I think is an interesting step in the right 1:16:35.895 --> 1:16:37.975 direction that won't solve all the problems of the world, 1:16:38.335 --> 1:16:40.415 is going to be a useful test case in terms 1:16:40.455 --> 1:16:44.335 of some of those assurance mechanisms outside the consenting process. 1:16:44.655 --> 1:16:47.135 Number three I think would be the consent system itself, 1:16:47.415 --> 1:16:52.295 in the administration of the of the building consents and 1:16:52.415 --> 1:16:57.055 cccs and in everything between. By the current structure sixty 1:16:57.135 --> 1:17:00.655 seven different authorities to monitor compliance with the single code 1:17:00.695 --> 1:17:01.775 simply doesn't make sense. 1:17:01.935 --> 1:17:02.215 There we go. 1:17:02.255 --> 1:17:04.135 I've said it, so I'd better change it now. 1:17:05.215 --> 1:17:09.375 And part of that, I think remote visual inspections strategically 1:17:09.455 --> 1:17:14.095 are helpful because apart from providing some greater efficiency along 1:17:14.175 --> 1:17:17.495 the ways and reducing those delays and frustration, you also say, well, 1:17:17.535 --> 1:17:19.455 and if we're going to take that approach, then you 1:17:19.535 --> 1:17:21.535 can have more of a regional model, maybe even a 1:17:21.615 --> 1:17:24.295 national model that says work that's being done in a 1:17:24.295 --> 1:17:28.335 particular part of New Zealand if it can be verified remotely, 1:17:28.615 --> 1:17:32.175 then actually you can have a specialized building concent officer 1:17:32.255 --> 1:17:34.575 who may not live in the same geographical area, who 1:17:34.615 --> 1:17:37.335 may not be within driving distance, can actually monitor the 1:17:37.375 --> 1:17:40.775 performance of that and so that degree of specialization as 1:17:40.815 --> 1:17:44.455 well as general availability and efficiency resource as hopefully you 1:17:44.495 --> 1:17:47.175 know part of that story about remote visual inspections. So 1:17:47.255 --> 1:17:49.495 you've allowed me I think five, and I've got the 1:17:49.655 --> 1:17:52.215 three to the other two I think would be in 1:17:52.415 --> 1:17:55.615 relation to sustainability, and I know that you know, per 1:17:55.655 --> 1:17:58.415 the H one conversation, that is controversial because because I'm 1:17:58.415 --> 1:18:02.575 not prepared to recommend anything that would increase the cost 1:18:02.655 --> 1:18:05.455 of construction and make it unaffordable for people to own 1:18:05.495 --> 1:18:09.535 their home. And I know blatantly putting this in residential gyms. 1:18:09.575 --> 1:18:12.815 And there's a commercial sector as well, be office, retail, industrial, 1:18:12.895 --> 1:18:15.375 and then you've got the infrastructure. But you know, as shorthand, 1:18:15.495 --> 1:18:17.775 if we want to have those good outcomes but can 1:18:17.855 --> 1:18:20.055 achieve them in a way that's good for the environment, 1:18:20.175 --> 1:18:23.015 good for the economic bottom line as well, then I 1:18:23.055 --> 1:18:24.775 think we should be smart enough to try and achieve 1:18:24.855 --> 1:18:26.855 that and then just surround it out with the final one. 1:18:27.215 --> 1:18:29.495 But no less than the others, I suppose, because it 1:18:29.575 --> 1:18:32.175 is a big question for New Zealand seismic risk you know, 1:18:33.175 --> 1:18:36.095 earthquake praying buildings up and down the country, including in 1:18:36.175 --> 1:18:38.455 some zones that are you know, we think, according to 1:18:38.495 --> 1:18:42.135 the current science less seismically active, a huge opportunity cost 1:18:42.295 --> 1:18:45.375 be it in the big cities, with Wellington being you know, 1:18:45.535 --> 1:18:48.495 in danger of becoming a ghost town, but also you know, 1:18:48.615 --> 1:18:51.295 smaller regional centers we're a very high proportion of buildings 1:18:51.335 --> 1:18:54.055 are both heritage listed but also earthquake prain and which 1:18:54.175 --> 1:18:56.895 is no realistic prospect on the current settings then anything 1:18:56.935 --> 1:19:00.215 good will happen there. And we've got a tsunami fel 1:19:00.255 --> 1:19:04.815 excuse me mixing my natural disaster metaphors of lack of 1:19:04.895 --> 1:19:07.655 compliance in that space. So we're providing by way of 1:19:07.775 --> 1:19:10.655 legislation and extra four years at least or you know, 1:19:10.735 --> 1:19:13.175 four years and then possibility of extra two years for 1:19:13.255 --> 1:19:15.015 people to get up to stand it. But in the 1:19:15.095 --> 1:19:17.455 meantime we're also reviewing the rules to see if we 1:19:17.495 --> 1:19:19.255 can make it a bit easier, a bit more practical, 1:19:19.895 --> 1:19:22.095 and frankly again more affordable for people to be able 1:19:22.095 --> 1:19:24.575 to comply in a way that recognizes life safety without 1:19:24.615 --> 1:19:26.335 imposing extra additional cost. 1:19:26.615 --> 1:19:29.295 Which sounds risk based rather than just a blanket. Right, 1:19:29.375 --> 1:19:31.135 You've all got to get to sixty seven percent of 1:19:31.215 --> 1:19:34.215 new building code something like that, yeah, or new building 1:19:34.255 --> 1:19:43.215 standing all right, thank you. Last question, Like, I've been 1:19:43.335 --> 1:19:45.895 involved in the sector for a long time and one 1:19:45.935 --> 1:19:48.215 of the things that I really enjoy about it is 1:19:48.295 --> 1:19:51.095 that generally the people that are in it are often 1:19:51.135 --> 1:19:54.495 really passionate, really engaged. How have you found sort of 1:19:54.575 --> 1:19:57.055 this extra engagement with the building sector. 1:19:57.415 --> 1:20:00.855 Exhausting but good? No, I love it, I really do. 1:20:01.495 --> 1:20:06.175 And my diary is full of different meetings behind closes 1:20:06.495 --> 1:20:09.255 or conferences with hundreds of people or more of a 1:20:09.775 --> 1:20:12.295 retail environment I suppose if you want to put it 1:20:12.335 --> 1:20:14.375 like that, like the home show recently in Auckland, that 1:20:14.455 --> 1:20:17.375 was a great opportunity to wander around and see what's available, 1:20:17.455 --> 1:20:20.655 see what people are thinking, and everyone from big you know, 1:20:20.815 --> 1:20:24.975 really serious players who invest a huge amount of money 1:20:25.055 --> 1:20:28.095 in make New Zealand a great built environment. And then 1:20:28.575 --> 1:20:31.295 you know, just to resort to cliche. You know you've 1:20:31.295 --> 1:20:32.895 allowed me granny flats. I'm going to go with number 1:20:32.935 --> 1:20:36.295 DA as well. So you know, everyone's everyone's interested, and 1:20:36.495 --> 1:20:37.415 everyone's got a stake in it. 1:20:37.535 --> 1:20:39.255 And if you talk about the. 1:20:39.335 --> 1:20:42.855 Number of people employed directly and directly GDP percentage likewise. 1:20:43.095 --> 1:20:44.335 But then of course you say, well, we all have 1:20:44.335 --> 1:20:47.095 gotten in trust because we all live in the built environment. 1:20:47.135 --> 1:20:50.215 We work, live and play in places that people have built. 1:20:50.295 --> 1:20:52.655 So it's easy to be passionate and it's easy to 1:20:53.535 --> 1:20:55.495 get that from those who are doing the work. So 1:20:55.775 --> 1:20:57.015 that's what I really enjoy about it. 1:20:57.775 --> 1:20:59.575 Mister Chris Pink, thank you very much for your time. 1:20:59.975 --> 1:21:03.015 Thank you your news talk set. But you we're back 1:21:03.095 --> 1:21:05.135 straight after News Sport and we're the top of the 1:21:05.215 --> 1:21:11.335 hour at seven at eight o'clock. Oh maybe we have 1:21:11.375 --> 1:21:13.455 to go for a little bit longer, so Chris Pink, 1:21:13.495 --> 1:21:17.655 the minister was with us, and we'll take some calls 1:21:17.735 --> 1:21:21.695 and some discussion on that straight after the news as well. 1:21:21.735 --> 1:21:25.215 A couple of really good texts that have come in already. 1:21:28.255 --> 1:21:31.095 Where have we got some? Oh and also, by the way, 1:21:31.215 --> 1:21:33.175 all of this is available on the podcast or it 1:21:33.215 --> 1:21:34.815 will be a little bit later on today. So if 1:21:34.855 --> 1:21:37.695 there was something in my conversation with the Minister which 1:21:38.615 --> 1:21:40.775 I'd said beforehand, you know, this is an opportunity to 1:21:40.855 --> 1:21:44.175 sort of stretch our legs and discuss at some depth 1:21:44.295 --> 1:21:46.895 and with a little bit of time some of these 1:21:46.975 --> 1:21:49.455 really important issues, because I think one of the frustrations 1:21:49.495 --> 1:21:53.095 with people in the building sector when we're involved in 1:21:53.175 --> 1:21:56.495 sort of you know, public discussion about this, particularly around news, 1:21:57.335 --> 1:22:00.815 there's no criticism of news. We're always trying to explain 1:22:00.895 --> 1:22:03.735 something that's really really complicated in a very short period 1:22:03.775 --> 1:22:06.095 of time and that's not that easy to do. So 1:22:06.295 --> 1:22:09.335 I think in this instance here it was a great 1:22:09.335 --> 1:22:12.735 opportunity to allow him the space to explain what they're 1:22:12.815 --> 1:22:15.615 trying to do him as the minister, they as the government, 1:22:15.655 --> 1:22:19.295 as the coalition government, and that was I found quite 1:22:19.375 --> 1:22:21.335 useful and I was thinking, well, I was listening to 1:22:21.375 --> 1:22:23.855 the interview, it might be an opportunity to also go 1:22:23.935 --> 1:22:26.535 along and get Chrissip to join us on the show 1:22:26.655 --> 1:22:28.215 at some stage as well. So I'll see if I 1:22:28.255 --> 1:22:30.695 can organize that for you at some stage. But if 1:22:30.695 --> 1:22:34.295 you'd like to listen back to that interview, it will 1:22:34.375 --> 1:22:37.935 be available on the news Talk ZB website and the podcast, 1:22:38.575 --> 1:22:42.615 or it will be available as on iHeartRadio as well, 1:22:42.695 --> 1:22:44.895 but certainly it'll be up a little bit later on 1:22:45.095 --> 1:22:48.455 Today Your News Talk ZEDB. We got news, sport and weather, 1:22:49.735 --> 1:22:52.335 Your News Talk SB. Welcome back to the program. My 1:22:52.415 --> 1:22:54.975 name's Pete wolf Camp, Resident Builder. This is a show 1:22:55.135 --> 1:22:58.895 all about building and construction and projects that you might 1:22:58.975 --> 1:23:02.455 get underway or that are underway that aren't going particularly well. 1:23:02.615 --> 1:23:07.775 Possibly some issues, challenges, legislation, anything to do with building 1:23:07.855 --> 1:23:10.015 and construction. We can talk about that on the show 1:23:10.255 --> 1:23:12.535 for at least the next twenty two minutes. Then we're 1:23:12.575 --> 1:23:14.815 going to jump into the garden with Rod climb Pasta 1:23:15.775 --> 1:23:17.975 from eight thirty this morning. So if you've got any 1:23:18.055 --> 1:23:22.135 gardening or entomological questions, anything about the wonderful world of bugs, 1:23:22.335 --> 1:23:24.735 then we can talk to rud about that from eight 1:23:24.855 --> 1:23:27.455 thirty this morning. But right now the lines are open. 1:23:27.575 --> 1:23:30.135 The number to call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. 1:23:30.775 --> 1:23:34.135 In the last hour of the program, my apologies seem 1:23:34.175 --> 1:23:35.975 to be a bit of a technical issue just right 1:23:35.975 --> 1:23:39.575 at the end of the show. There I had the opportunity. 1:23:39.575 --> 1:23:43.815 I reached out a little while ago to the Ministry 1:23:43.895 --> 1:23:48.215 for Building Construction and to the Minister Chris Pink and said, look, 1:23:48.255 --> 1:23:50.735 it'd be really nice to be able to get the 1:23:50.815 --> 1:23:52.575 Minister to come in and have a bit of a chat, 1:23:53.335 --> 1:23:55.695 and in the end their invitation was, well, look we 1:23:55.815 --> 1:23:58.335 can the minister will come in come into the studio 1:23:58.375 --> 1:24:01.175 on a Thursday, we had a conversation. Replayed that conversation 1:24:01.335 --> 1:24:03.335 to you just a little while ago. If you want 1:24:03.375 --> 1:24:05.095 to go back and listen to it, it will be 1:24:05.255 --> 1:24:08.535 up as a podcast are in the day, because certainly 1:24:08.615 --> 1:24:10.615 there was a lot of detail in it, and my 1:24:10.735 --> 1:24:15.455 intention with the interview with the conversation was that we 1:24:15.535 --> 1:24:19.455 would have time to discuss things that are not easily 1:24:19.575 --> 1:24:22.295 dealt with in sound bites. Nothing wrong with sound bites, 1:24:22.335 --> 1:24:25.935 they're really important, obviously, but sometimes these things take a 1:24:25.975 --> 1:24:28.135 little bit of time to discuss. So a couple of 1:24:28.215 --> 1:24:30.095 really interesting things for me that came out of it, 1:24:30.215 --> 1:24:33.135 certainly the discussion around perhaps having a look at the 1:24:33.735 --> 1:24:38.055 usefulness of the schedule method. Just if you're wondering what 1:24:38.375 --> 1:24:41.175 that is all about. There is basically three ways to 1:24:41.375 --> 1:24:44.935 prove compliance with the H one regulations. H one is 1:24:45.415 --> 1:24:48.215 all about energy efficiency in our buildings, and the reason 1:24:48.255 --> 1:24:50.735 that we want our buildings to be more energy efficient 1:24:51.335 --> 1:24:53.535 is that it costs a lot to heat them and 1:24:53.655 --> 1:24:55.735 it uses a great deal of energy. So if we 1:24:55.855 --> 1:24:59.135 can make them more energy efficient, one of those ways 1:24:59.175 --> 1:25:02.695 is by increasing the insulation standards and the performance level 1:25:02.775 --> 1:25:05.615 of the houses, we will reduce energy costs in the future. 1:25:06.535 --> 1:25:10.615 We're already in an energy crisis right now. Then you 1:25:10.695 --> 1:25:13.175 can understand why that's actually a really important thing to do. 1:25:13.815 --> 1:25:16.575 And then there are other benefits like warm, dry, comfortable. 1:25:16.695 --> 1:25:19.015 That's a really good thing. And so if you're sitting 1:25:19.055 --> 1:25:22.895 there designing house, you kind of have three broad options 1:25:23.015 --> 1:25:28.895 to calculate the energy usage or the insulation requirements for 1:25:28.935 --> 1:25:31.935 the house. So there is the schedule method, which is 1:25:32.055 --> 1:25:35.095 essentially a tick box approach, right, and in the schedule 1:25:35.175 --> 1:25:38.815 method it got changed recently. So the standard for ceiling 1:25:38.895 --> 1:25:43.295 insulation across all of the country, every basically every type 1:25:43.335 --> 1:25:46.455 of house is R six point six. Now that's about 1:25:46.615 --> 1:25:48.895 almost three hundred millimeters of insulation that you need to 1:25:48.935 --> 1:25:53.015 get into the ceiling. And then the walls changed marginally 1:25:53.575 --> 1:25:57.935 to all around R two R two point zero. Now 1:25:58.135 --> 1:26:00.895 R six point six is a lot of insulation. And 1:26:01.455 --> 1:26:05.135 there is a law of diminishing returns in terms of insulation, 1:26:05.295 --> 1:26:07.455 and I think it tops out around four point eight, 1:26:07.935 --> 1:26:10.655 So anything above that is not actually giving you much benefit, 1:26:10.775 --> 1:26:12.975 but for some reason it's there. In the schedule method 1:26:13.335 --> 1:26:15.535 so if you just want to design a house using 1:26:15.655 --> 1:26:17.535 just the schedule method, you end up with our six 1:26:17.615 --> 1:26:19.775 point six and the ceiling. Now, if you go to 1:26:20.015 --> 1:26:25.095 the calculation method, which is where you do calculation of 1:26:25.455 --> 1:26:29.135 size of windows, type of walls, type of roof, insulation, orientation, 1:26:29.295 --> 1:26:31.495 all of these sorts of things, you can arrive at 1:26:31.575 --> 1:26:34.095 some different figures and you might find using the calculation 1:26:34.215 --> 1:26:36.975 method that in fact you can comply with the code 1:26:37.215 --> 1:26:41.215 and have ceiling insulation. Pick a number R four right now, 1:26:41.295 --> 1:26:44.495 it's a lot different to our six point six. Then 1:26:44.535 --> 1:26:47.975 the next step up is that you do modeling, which 1:26:48.055 --> 1:26:50.855 is slightly more complicated and more involved. It'll give you 1:26:50.975 --> 1:26:54.455 a much more nuanced look at the building, but it 1:26:54.615 --> 1:26:58.575 is in terms of its success, accessibility, and its cost, 1:26:58.735 --> 1:27:02.055 it is considerably more expensive and it's done by people 1:27:02.575 --> 1:27:05.255 who are I suppose it's a higher level of analysis, right, 1:27:05.335 --> 1:27:09.215 So not many peopeople will use the modeling method. Interestingly enough, 1:27:09.255 --> 1:27:12.055 when I was at the conference New Zealand Institute of 1:27:12.055 --> 1:27:15.175 Building Surveys Conference yesterday, I was in Wellington on Friday 1:27:15.215 --> 1:27:20.415 and Saturday, I was chatting with someone who does this modeling. Right, 1:27:20.535 --> 1:27:24.015 the modeling and the calculation and I had thought that. 1:27:24.375 --> 1:27:26.375 You know that one of the reasons we kept the 1:27:26.415 --> 1:27:30.095 schedule method is it made doing these calculations H one's 1:27:30.135 --> 1:27:34.495 compliance accessible because the cost of doing either the calculation 1:27:34.655 --> 1:27:38.695 or the modeling was prohibitive. Anyway, were chatting away, he goes, 1:27:39.015 --> 1:27:41.535 we can do and we do the calculation method for 1:27:41.615 --> 1:27:46.135 a new home six to seven hundred dollars. Now that's 1:27:47.055 --> 1:27:49.295 in the scope of building a house and going through 1:27:49.375 --> 1:27:52.415 design and compliance and all the rest of it. That's 1:27:52.575 --> 1:27:57.735 not an unaffordable amount of money. And I think knowing 1:27:57.895 --> 1:28:02.095 that adds weight to my suggestion than in fact the 1:28:02.135 --> 1:28:06.415 schedule method. I it just dump it right, Just get 1:28:06.495 --> 1:28:09.135 rid of the schedule method. Make sure that every single 1:28:09.175 --> 1:28:12.015 house is calculated or modeled, and the calculation cost is 1:28:12.135 --> 1:28:15.295 not that great, and it's not indecipherable, and it's not 1:28:15.495 --> 1:28:17.535 hard to do. That's where I would come from. Oh, 1:28:17.575 --> 1:28:19.575 eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call. 1:28:20.255 --> 1:28:24.975 I got a bunch of texts about this. Let me 1:28:25.175 --> 1:28:32.335 just read one, which was an interesting one. Here we 1:28:32.415 --> 1:28:35.255 go listening to your interview with the building minister. My 1:28:35.415 --> 1:28:37.575 question to you after that is ten he knows what 1:28:37.655 --> 1:28:39.735 he's talking about. One, he's faking it till he makes 1:28:39.775 --> 1:28:45.255 it from Lee. Look, I actually and I had had 1:28:45.295 --> 1:28:49.015 this opinion prior to this, because I've met Chris Penk 1:28:49.135 --> 1:28:51.735 at a couple of different events. I've listened to him 1:28:51.775 --> 1:28:55.335 speak a few times. I think he's genuinely engaged in 1:28:55.375 --> 1:28:57.735 the process. I think he's got a pretty good handle 1:28:57.775 --> 1:29:00.895 on it. I thought that he spoke pretty well about, 1:29:01.175 --> 1:29:03.455 you know, understanding the difference between the schedule method, the 1:29:03.535 --> 1:29:08.135 calculation method, the modeling method. So yeah, I don't know 1:29:08.215 --> 1:29:10.095 whether i'd give him a ranking, but I certainly wouldn't 1:29:10.095 --> 1:29:11.535 say that he's faking it till he makes it. I 1:29:11.575 --> 1:29:13.815 think he genuinely knows what he's talking about and is 1:29:14.095 --> 1:29:18.255 more importantly engaged and wants to learn. And I know 1:29:18.495 --> 1:29:21.975 from a number of other sources that he's actively been 1:29:22.055 --> 1:29:26.215 engaged with sitting down with industry groups. Because I missed 1:29:26.255 --> 1:29:27.575 him and I met him at the New Zealand Green 1:29:27.615 --> 1:29:30.495 Building Council event at the beginning of the year, the 1:29:30.575 --> 1:29:32.935 Housing Summit, and I said, look, so you're in you're 1:29:32.975 --> 1:29:35.335 a new minister. People would be getting in your ear 1:29:35.535 --> 1:29:38.375 every day. How do you know who to listen to? 1:29:38.735 --> 1:29:41.575 That was anyway we've got a long and lengthy discussion 1:29:41.615 --> 1:29:44.695 on exactly that RDIO. Let's get back amongst it. Oh, 1:29:44.775 --> 1:29:47.295 eight hundred and eighty, ten eighty. We take building calls 1:29:47.375 --> 1:29:49.935 until eight thirty. Then we're into the garden with redcloinb 1:29:49.975 --> 1:29:53.015 passed Catherine, Good morning, Good. 1:29:52.935 --> 1:29:59.375 Morning, Pete. I've got a situation where a builder has 1:29:59.455 --> 1:30:04.695 built well, developer has built three houses next to mine. Yes, 1:30:05.055 --> 1:30:09.575 and of four year years now without offense, he took 1:30:09.655 --> 1:30:12.695 down the fence to develop his property. He keeps saying, 1:30:14.975 --> 1:30:18.295 put it out, But it's been four years now, how 1:30:18.375 --> 1:30:20.775 long can I go? Should I go without a fence? 1:30:20.855 --> 1:30:23.895 And I'm totally exposed to the three property more than 1:30:23.975 --> 1:30:25.375 lacking privacy now. 1:30:26.375 --> 1:30:30.895 Which is a bit frustrating. And I say this with 1:30:31.735 --> 1:30:36.375 genuine kindness, I suppose, and hindsight's always twenty twenty, right. 1:30:36.815 --> 1:30:39.135 What would have been quite good when the developer first 1:30:39.215 --> 1:30:43.135 approached you is to get in writing a promise from 1:30:43.335 --> 1:30:46.695 the developer to replace the fence by a certain date, right, 1:30:48.255 --> 1:30:51.695 and then you could have you know, it's quite reasonable 1:30:51.735 --> 1:30:54.055 in a development to maybe have to remove an existing 1:30:54.175 --> 1:30:56.735 fence and possibly you'll get one that's better than the 1:30:56.775 --> 1:30:59.015 old one. All of those sorts of things, you'd put 1:30:59.055 --> 1:31:02.135 that down in writing. You'd have an agreement and the 1:31:02.255 --> 1:31:05.215 developer would say, okay, well, look I expect to finish 1:31:05.295 --> 1:31:07.455 most of my construction by this state. We'll be doing 1:31:07.575 --> 1:31:11.255 landscaping here. The fence will be in by the state, 1:31:11.415 --> 1:31:13.295 and then the day after that you can knock on 1:31:13.375 --> 1:31:15.735 the door and go, hey, you promised that I would 1:31:15.775 --> 1:31:17.855 have a new fence by the state. Here's the email 1:31:17.935 --> 1:31:20.095 to back it up. When are you starting the fence? 1:31:20.135 --> 1:31:23.375 The hard thing is, you know, it's difficult to get leverage. Now, 1:31:25.135 --> 1:31:28.935 that's the tricky thing saying that. Do you have any 1:31:29.615 --> 1:31:33.695 evidence of your conversation with the developer promising a new 1:31:33.815 --> 1:31:36.735 fence at all that you could go back and remind 1:31:36.815 --> 1:31:39.255 them of, Oh, well. 1:31:39.135 --> 1:31:40.335 He said it all along. 1:31:40.815 --> 1:31:45.095 Yeah, I know not Well do I have evidence, well. 1:31:45.495 --> 1:31:48.615 A text message or you know, did you write a 1:31:48.735 --> 1:31:52.175 diary note for example, Hey, chatted with the developer and 1:31:52.495 --> 1:31:54.255 he told me that it would be six months ago, 1:31:54.415 --> 1:31:56.335 and if that's eighteen months ago, then you could go 1:31:56.455 --> 1:32:00.495 back and remind I just think in these sorts of things, Unfortunately, 1:32:01.415 --> 1:32:04.695 dealing with developers, you need to get in and writing. 1:32:04.855 --> 1:32:05.375 You need to. 1:32:07.015 --> 1:32:08.895 You know, have something that you can go back and 1:32:09.255 --> 1:32:10.455 sort of provide evidence of. 1:32:10.615 --> 1:32:15.775 Really, but I mean it's four years surely a leg 1:32:15.895 --> 1:32:17.255 to stand on over time. 1:32:17.855 --> 1:32:20.855 I'm just not sure where you would go legally, you know, 1:32:20.975 --> 1:32:24.055 because if nothing was written down, if no promises were made, 1:32:25.095 --> 1:32:25.815 I'm you know. 1:32:28.255 --> 1:32:30.735 But but you know, he has taken out my fense. 1:32:30.815 --> 1:32:34.295 And it's about the trees that I said these are 1:32:34.375 --> 1:32:37.095 to be left, but he took them out. But yeah, no, no, 1:32:37.255 --> 1:32:39.775 I didn't get anything in writing. I trusted him. Well, 1:32:39.775 --> 1:32:40.375 I wouldn't you. 1:32:42.615 --> 1:32:46.015 To be fair when it comes to construction. Have a 1:32:46.135 --> 1:32:50.255 healthy skepticism, right, get everything in writing? 1:32:51.775 --> 1:32:53.735 Oh well I should have taken the advice of my mother. 1:32:53.895 --> 1:32:54.615 Trust no one. 1:32:55.255 --> 1:32:59.495 It's not about not trusting people. It's just about being 1:32:59.535 --> 1:33:03.655 a bit pragmatic, I guess, and a healthy skepticism of 1:33:03.775 --> 1:33:07.695 human nature is the way that I put it. But look, 1:33:07.895 --> 1:33:10.735 I think you know you might find you might find 1:33:10.735 --> 1:33:13.855 that you have some redress under the Fencing Act, and 1:33:14.135 --> 1:33:17.375 so that's probably your next best bet is to just 1:33:17.495 --> 1:33:19.175 have a read through a little bit of this stuff 1:33:19.175 --> 1:33:22.535 around the Fencing Act, write a letter saying, hey, look 1:33:22.615 --> 1:33:25.415 you did on this date remove the fence you did 1:33:25.495 --> 1:33:28.215 promise me under the Fencing Act. I'm now serving you 1:33:28.295 --> 1:33:30.215 with a notice that you have this amount of time 1:33:30.335 --> 1:33:33.215 to reinstate it, given that you removed it. Try that 1:33:34.135 --> 1:33:37.295 so quote the Fencing Act. Quote the Fencing Act. See 1:33:37.295 --> 1:33:40.375 if that gets some action. All the best you, Catherine, 1:33:40.495 --> 1:33:43.095 You take care, all the very best. Hello Lucy. 1:33:44.175 --> 1:33:44.415 Hello. 1:33:46.335 --> 1:33:46.775 I have. 1:33:48.375 --> 1:33:53.255 Neighbors who have two downpipes from the guttering yep, going 1:33:53.455 --> 1:33:54.935 straight down to the ground. 1:33:55.375 --> 1:33:55.535 Yep. 1:33:56.135 --> 1:34:00.575 There's no The water is not vented anywhere except to 1:34:00.655 --> 1:34:04.815 the concrete, and of course it flows under the fence, 1:34:05.735 --> 1:34:08.975 which the whole piece from the corner of their house 1:34:09.615 --> 1:34:16.335 down towards their front lawn is concrete, right, And my concrete, 1:34:16.495 --> 1:34:19.415 which is sort of laid in large squares, is now 1:34:19.575 --> 1:34:22.415 sinking right right. 1:34:23.575 --> 1:34:27.255 In terms of the property law, it is the responsibility 1:34:27.295 --> 1:34:31.335 of the homeowner to control stormwater discharge from their property. Right, 1:34:31.495 --> 1:34:36.455 So they are technically in breach of that. And you 1:34:36.615 --> 1:34:39.735 could go to council and ask counsel to come out 1:34:39.975 --> 1:34:43.415 and have a look at that, and they may issue 1:34:43.575 --> 1:34:44.655 a notice to fix. 1:34:45.935 --> 1:34:46.135 Yes. 1:34:47.535 --> 1:34:49.215 Yeah, so that's the best. 1:34:50.975 --> 1:34:55.335 When the extension was first done, there was a garden 1:34:55.975 --> 1:35:01.575 along the side of their house right, and the original 1:35:01.695 --> 1:35:06.655 owners put the gutter water down the pipe, there goes 1:35:06.935 --> 1:35:11.575 the event to the toilet. Yeah, but they had to 1:35:11.775 --> 1:35:14.415 change that when the house was sold, and that's why 1:35:15.175 --> 1:35:17.175 for the last it's been years. 1:35:18.335 --> 1:35:19.415 But it's. 1:35:21.135 --> 1:35:25.735 Now I'm on my own. You notice the place is yeah. 1:35:25.695 --> 1:35:28.135 No, and no look at it. And it's really really 1:35:28.215 --> 1:35:32.695 frustrating when a neighbor, you know, blatantly disregards the requirements 1:35:32.735 --> 1:35:35.335 around stormwater and it becomes a nuisance to you. But 1:35:35.895 --> 1:35:38.495 I would say, maybe if you've got the opportunity next 1:35:38.535 --> 1:35:40.575 time we have some decent heavy rain and you see 1:35:40.615 --> 1:35:42.935 that flooding coming to your place, just take a quick 1:35:42.935 --> 1:35:44.495 photograph of that and then. 1:35:45.415 --> 1:35:46.335 Go to the. 1:35:49.495 --> 1:35:53.855 But I've deleted them, okay because I spoke. I did 1:35:53.975 --> 1:35:58.855 speak to him, yeah and oh yeah, yeah, okay, but 1:35:59.055 --> 1:35:59.895 nothing's happened. 1:36:00.055 --> 1:36:04.175 Yeah. No time to get counsel involved, Lucy, Yes, time 1:36:04.255 --> 1:36:06.855 to get counsel. Let us, let us show how you 1:36:06.935 --> 1:36:09.735 get on and hopefully counsel will be helpful in this 1:36:09.855 --> 1:36:14.095 particular instance. Good luck with that. It is eight twenty 1:36:14.215 --> 1:36:17.815 here at news Stalk SB. There's never been a more 1:36:17.855 --> 1:36:21.055 affordable time to invest in solar power for your home, 1:36:21.655 --> 1:36:23.815 get the solar power that you want in a bundle 1:36:23.895 --> 1:36:27.335 that you need from light Force Solar. Our Silver Savior 1:36:27.535 --> 1:36:32.415 Solar bundle offers a superior fourteen panel system, six kilowatt 1:36:32.455 --> 1:36:37.215 good we inverter plus full installation plus EARN one hundred 1:36:37.215 --> 1:36:39.815 and seventy three air points dollars all for twelve nine 1:36:39.935 --> 1:36:43.015 nine five plus your choice of a free upgrade to 1:36:43.135 --> 1:36:47.535 get the right solar for you. 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Tea's and c's apply right o your 1:37:16.215 --> 1:37:18.495 news stork ZB We're a couple more calls before we 1:37:18.615 --> 1:37:21.615 go to the garden and we'll jump in with redclimb pass. 1:37:21.655 --> 1:37:24.135 But Cindy, you've got a bit of an issue with 1:37:24.175 --> 1:37:24.615 an LBP. 1:37:26.335 --> 1:37:29.895 Yeah, so we've had a bit of a journey with 1:37:30.335 --> 1:37:36.015 an LPP builder, and we contracted this guy to build 1:37:36.055 --> 1:37:40.615 a minor dwelling on our property. And he came in 1:37:41.055 --> 1:37:44.295 and he started building, and we got to the cloding 1:37:44.415 --> 1:37:48.735 stage and the claud my husband sort of looked at 1:37:48.735 --> 1:37:53.335 the clouding and thought, that doesn't look right. And interestingly, 1:37:53.455 --> 1:37:56.015 their clouding came with a full booklet on how it 1:37:56.175 --> 1:38:00.575 needed to be, how it needed to be put up. Anyway, 1:38:01.055 --> 1:38:04.135 my husband called the council, he killed it, called another 1:38:04.215 --> 1:38:07.375 builder and the architect, and they all came up and said, no, 1:38:07.615 --> 1:38:12.255 this is cowboy, and it got a complete fail. So 1:38:12.415 --> 1:38:14.215 we went back to the builder and said, you know, 1:38:14.455 --> 1:38:16.415 we need all new cludding. It's going to be all 1:38:16.455 --> 1:38:19.495 put up, and he basically said, I'm not coming back. 1:38:19.575 --> 1:38:23.855 Find another builder. But you know, interestingly, at the very beginning, 1:38:24.135 --> 1:38:27.255 we had signed a contract, we had done all the 1:38:27.415 --> 1:38:31.335 right things, and we were giving him, you know, gradual 1:38:31.415 --> 1:38:36.295 payment throughout the project. And what ended up happening and 1:38:36.375 --> 1:38:39.335 this is what I don't understand, Like, you know, you 1:38:39.455 --> 1:38:43.015 get to this point and it feels like there's no 1:38:43.215 --> 1:38:47.255 recourse because he didn't come back. We had to find 1:38:47.295 --> 1:38:52.255 another builder and he owed us seventy thousand dollars, and 1:38:53.575 --> 1:38:55.895 you know, in the end, we went to a solicitor 1:38:55.975 --> 1:38:59.055 who drew up, well, his solicitor actually drew up a 1:38:59.335 --> 1:39:02.495 settlement that we were meant to be paid the money 1:39:02.615 --> 1:39:07.095 by December last year. But nothing. It's like he knows 1:39:07.455 --> 1:39:09.655 now we've gone to a deck collector and he's paying 1:39:09.695 --> 1:39:14.575 house fifty dollars a week. I mean, you know, it's 1:39:14.735 --> 1:39:20.455 just there just doesn't seem to be like, even when 1:39:20.535 --> 1:39:23.415 you've done the right thing, it doesn't feel like there's 1:39:23.535 --> 1:39:24.415 anywhere to turn. 1:39:24.775 --> 1:39:27.535 Yeah, so the mind of dwelling that you got this 1:39:27.935 --> 1:39:31.975 LBP to do, did that have a building consent? Did 1:39:32.015 --> 1:39:33.255 it require a building consent? 1:39:33.415 --> 1:39:33.695 Okay? 1:39:33.775 --> 1:39:37.335 So it did require a building consent? Okay, that's interesting. 1:39:37.975 --> 1:39:41.215 The other thing is have you gone to the disciplinary 1:39:41.295 --> 1:39:43.615 board of the Licensed Building Practitioner scheme? 1:39:44.415 --> 1:39:47.815 Well, that's the interesting thing. And what we found out 1:39:47.935 --> 1:39:50.935 later that this guy had done this before, right, And 1:39:51.895 --> 1:39:55.855 so what happened was when his solicitor drew up the 1:39:55.935 --> 1:39:59.255 settlement saying that we'd get all our money by December 1:39:59.375 --> 1:40:02.775 last year, they had a confidentiality clause in there that 1:40:02.935 --> 1:40:07.335 we weren't to talk to anybody about it. So sphin king. Oh, well, 1:40:07.495 --> 1:40:09.455 you know we're going to get our money, so maybe 1:40:09.615 --> 1:40:13.495 that's okay. Well, I mean, now we're ten months down 1:40:13.575 --> 1:40:15.575 the track and we still haven't Yeah. 1:40:15.535 --> 1:40:18.615 Okay, Well, now I wonder do we do that? Yeah, 1:40:18.855 --> 1:40:22.175 I'm wondering whether because you know, look, lbp's like that 1:40:22.935 --> 1:40:26.015 really really annoy me, and they bring the entire system 1:40:26.055 --> 1:40:29.095 into disrepute, right, And so I think name and shame 1:40:29.175 --> 1:40:31.215 is a good thing. So I don't want you to 1:40:31.255 --> 1:40:33.455 breach your agreement, but I would go back to your 1:40:33.535 --> 1:40:36.455 lawyer and maybe say, look, given that no payment or 1:40:36.815 --> 1:40:40.175 very little payment has been made, we are not going 1:40:40.255 --> 1:40:42.815 to abide by that non disclosure, and we are going 1:40:42.895 --> 1:40:47.295 to go to the Licensed Practitioner Board and make a claim. 1:40:47.335 --> 1:40:49.855 And and I think they would probably uphold it, in 1:40:49.935 --> 1:40:53.335 which case either he would have his license suspended or 1:40:53.415 --> 1:40:55.975 would be struck off in some cases. But it will 1:40:56.015 --> 1:40:58.735 also then become a matter of public record, which I 1:40:58.855 --> 1:41:02.655 think is really good, so that someone else searching that 1:41:02.815 --> 1:41:07.015 person's name later will be aware of their pass performance 1:41:07.215 --> 1:41:11.655 and be warned. Great, but it still leaves you in 1:41:11.735 --> 1:41:16.015 a really really awkward situation, which is terrible. And you know, 1:41:16.455 --> 1:41:20.775 I suppose ideally, we'd hope that the LBP registration scheme 1:41:20.895 --> 1:41:24.495 would prevent this type of thing. That's probably a little 1:41:24.495 --> 1:41:27.775 bit naive, and in your situation it hasn't, which is 1:41:27.855 --> 1:41:32.215 really really unfortunate. But look, I think that you should 1:41:32.455 --> 1:41:36.335 go and take them to the LBP disciplinary board, but 1:41:36.455 --> 1:41:38.415 you would need to then make sure that you're not 1:41:38.455 --> 1:41:40.695 getting yourself in legal trouble by doing so. 1:41:41.775 --> 1:41:46.215 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And look, maybe. 1:41:46.135 --> 1:41:49.375 You know, and now, in the conversation with Chris Pink 1:41:49.415 --> 1:41:51.295 that we had in the last hour, one of the 1:41:51.375 --> 1:41:53.295 things that we started to talk about is, you know, 1:41:53.775 --> 1:41:58.175 should we move away from counsel being responsible right for 1:41:58.255 --> 1:42:00.695 all of this to a more insurance based one, because 1:42:00.695 --> 1:42:04.175 if it was in your instance right, and if the 1:42:04.455 --> 1:42:08.775 LBP had have had proper insurance to cover that work 1:42:09.215 --> 1:42:11.095 and the work was poor, you could have gone to 1:42:11.175 --> 1:42:13.095 the insurer and the insurer would have gone, yep, I 1:42:13.215 --> 1:42:16.015 understand the claim, he is the money up front, right, 1:42:16.175 --> 1:42:20.215 and then chase the builder for it later. But at 1:42:20.295 --> 1:42:22.615 least you would get redress and allow you to move 1:42:22.695 --> 1:42:25.015 on rather than this nonsense of fifty dollars a week. 1:42:25.935 --> 1:42:28.975 Absolutely, I mean, we you know, we did look at 1:42:29.015 --> 1:42:32.815 the insurance options right now everything, and it was like no, 1:42:33.135 --> 1:42:34.295 just a complete dead end. 1:42:34.575 --> 1:42:38.015 Yeah, okay, hey, thanks for bringing that to our attention, 1:42:38.095 --> 1:42:39.535 and please let me know how you get on. And 1:42:39.615 --> 1:42:41.975 I really do think if you can take it to 1:42:42.095 --> 1:42:45.055 the disciplinary board, I think it's a really good idea. Right, 1:42:45.095 --> 1:42:47.015 we're going to jump into the garden now. Just before 1:42:47.055 --> 1:42:49.415 I do, I got this lovely text from Marie earlier 1:42:49.455 --> 1:42:53.455 on Dear mister Wolfcamp, my husband Ray, it's his sixty 1:42:53.615 --> 1:42:57.015 fifth birthday today. Could you please send out a greeting. 1:42:57.415 --> 1:43:01.055 He's a huge fan of News Talks dB, especially as 1:43:01.095 --> 1:43:03.455 it happens myself and Rudd. And then she says, tod 1:43:03.615 --> 1:43:09.375 sense from Marie. So Ray, very very happy sixty fifth birthday. 1:43:09.655 --> 1:43:11.175 Enjoy that, Buddy Gold card mate. 1:43:12.295 --> 1:43:15.175 For more from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp, listen 1:43:15.335 --> 1:43:18.055 live to News Talks' b on Sunday mornings from six, 1:43:18.415 --> 1:43:20.455 or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio