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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Resident build Up podcast with Peter

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Speaker 1: Wolfcamp from News Talks at Bay.

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Speaker 2: Even when it's dark, even when the grass is overgrown

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Speaker 2: in the yard, even when.

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Speaker 1: The dog is too old to bar.

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Speaker 2: And when you're sitting at the table trying not to

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Speaker 2: start have scissor hole, even when weave a band gone,

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Speaker 2: even when you're there alone, house is a hole.

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Speaker 3: Even when there's ghost Even.

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Speaker 2: When you got around from the world, you let your most.

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Speaker 4: You scream those broken plaints feeling from the wood.

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Speaker 2: Locals when they're gone, leaving them, even when we bene

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Speaker 2: even when you're in their alone.

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Speaker 5: Well, a very good morning and welcome along to the

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Speaker 5: Resident Builder on Sunday. My name is Pete worf Camp,

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Speaker 5: the Resident Builder, and this is an opportunity to discuss, debate,

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Speaker 5: just have a good old chin wag really about all

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Speaker 5: things building and construction, which is pretty much what I've

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Speaker 5: been doing for the last a couple of days or so.

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Speaker 5: I've been in Wellington and as attending in fact MCing

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Speaker 5: the New Zealand Institute of Building annual conference happened to

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Speaker 5: be their thirtieth anniversary as well, so spending time with

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Speaker 5: their members and delegates at the conference, And obviously when

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Speaker 5: you go to a cons about building surveying, you tend

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Speaker 5: to talk a lot about building. So a whole bunch

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Speaker 5: of new ideas floating around inside the Noggan sort of

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Speaker 5: an opportunity to catch up with industry experts, and that's

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Speaker 5: what building surveyors are to talk about changes to the legislation,

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Speaker 5: things that they see. Had a chance to chat with

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Speaker 5: a gentleman by the name of Philo Sullivan, who if

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Speaker 5: you recall all of the discussion around the leaky buildings,

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Speaker 5: who and his company and his brothers who were very

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Speaker 5: much at the forefront of pointing out, hey, look these

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Speaker 5: things are going to be a problem. And you know,

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Speaker 5: now sort of in semi retirement and all, I don't

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Speaker 5: think you can quite let go of it. You know,

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Speaker 5: a wealth of information, a wealth of knowledge, a real

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Speaker 5: depth of perspective. If you've been engaged with us for

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Speaker 5: forty years, you've got sort of long term view of

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Speaker 5: what the industry looks like, what some of the challenges are.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, a great couple of days in well actually beautiful, beautiful,

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Speaker 5: beautiful day in Wellington yesterday. But we'll talk about Wellington

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Speaker 5: ter on right. So if you've got a question, because

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Speaker 5: I've now got a head full of new information, eight

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Speaker 5: hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call anything

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Speaker 5: that relates to building construction, getting projects done. Projects perhaps

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Speaker 5: that didn't quite go the way that you were hoping

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Speaker 5: that they would go. We can talk about that on

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Speaker 5: the show this morning. Now a slightly different format to

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Speaker 5: the program this morning. I may have mentioned last week

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Speaker 5: that a couple of days prior to that, I had

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Speaker 5: the opportunity to spend an hour here in the studio

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Speaker 5: with the new Minister for Housing and Building and Construction,

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Speaker 5: the Honorable Chris Pink. I'd reached out to his office

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Speaker 5: to say, look, new minister, lots of new ideas, lots

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Speaker 5: of talk at the moment around building and construction. Could

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Speaker 5: I please get an interview with the minister? And their

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Speaker 5: response was yeah, sure, Chris, we'll come into the studio

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Speaker 5: on a Thursday afternoon and you guys can chat, which

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Speaker 5: is exactly what we did. So that interview that I

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Speaker 5: recorded last week i'll play after or between seven and

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Speaker 5: eight this morning. It's fairly lengthy. The intention for the

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Speaker 5: interview was that we had an opportunity to kind of

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Speaker 5: stretch our legs and talk about a whole number of issues,

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Speaker 5: and there are a lot I mentioned yesterday at the

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Speaker 5: conference that I genuinely can't think of a time in

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Speaker 5: the last ten certainly in the last ten years since

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Speaker 5: I've been doing this program where the political aspect of

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Speaker 5: building and building legislation has been as prominent as it

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Speaker 5: is at the moment. So lots of discussion around sixty

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Speaker 5: square meter granny flats without necessarily requiring a building consent,

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Speaker 5: talk about changing parts of the Building Act to allow

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Speaker 5: for We had a discussion around what's the difference between

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Speaker 5: minor variations, amended consents and now minor adjustments. I think

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Speaker 5: is a new thing that the Minister wants to introduce,

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Speaker 5: particularly for multiproof. We got on talking about councils. We

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Speaker 5: talked about joint and several liability. We talked about H

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Speaker 5: one changes. This is probably the most topical of all

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Speaker 5: of the discussion points that we wanted to touch on,

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Speaker 5: so that will be in the next hour of the program.

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Speaker 5: Which is also my way of suggesting that if you've

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Speaker 5: got a question, you better get your skates on. Give

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Speaker 5: me a call right now. Oh eight hundred and eighty

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Speaker 5: ten eighty will take calls this hour. We'll do the

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Speaker 5: interview with Chris Penk, the Minister, in the next hour,

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Speaker 5: and then we'll continue with calls until we talk to

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Speaker 5: climb Past. When I get here in the mornings, typically

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Speaker 5: I log into my email. I have to say that

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Speaker 5: the common theme and the emails for me this morning

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Speaker 5: getting in here is can you please send me some

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Speaker 5: plans for an oil box? Yes, I will work out

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Speaker 5: some way that I can do that. I might have

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Speaker 5: to redraw my hastily drawn sketch of what I ended

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Speaker 5: up building, but I will try and get that underway

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Speaker 5: and have those ready for you by next week. Righty oh,

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Speaker 5: it's your opportunity to talk about all things building construction

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Speaker 5: projects that have started that, like I say, I didn't

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Speaker 5: quite go the way that you wanted them to. My

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Speaker 5: thanks to a bunch of people that have emailed with

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Speaker 5: thoughts on a few topics that we had last week

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Speaker 5: around spouting and roofing and those sorts of things. Really

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Speaker 5: appreciate your emails, but right now it is time to talk.

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Speaker 5: Eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

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Speaker 5: So eight hundred eighty ten eighty you can text as

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Speaker 5: well nine to nine two and if you'd like to

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Speaker 5: send me an email, it is Pete at newstalksb dot

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Speaker 5: co dot NZ. So Pete at newstalksb dot co dot

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Speaker 5: in said, Pete, did you watch the All Blacks? They

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Speaker 5: won again? Only just I didn't. Actually I don't have

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Speaker 5: Sky right, so I don't get to watch the games live.

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Speaker 5: But while I was cruising through the supermarket and starting

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Speaker 5: to cook dinner, I had iHeartRadio on so I could

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Speaker 5: listen to the game while I was circling through the

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Speaker 5: supermarket and cooking dinner, and thought, Oh, this is going

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Speaker 5: to be a regular old downtrow, isn't It didn't quite

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Speaker 5: end up that way when I checked the herall before

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Speaker 5: I went to bed, a little bit closer than we expected, right, Oat,

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Speaker 5: But we're not here to talk sport. I don't mind

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Speaker 5: talking sport, but no, we're not going to do that

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Speaker 5: today on the show. We are here to talk all

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Speaker 5: things building and construction. Be great to have your calls.

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Speaker 5: Let's do it now. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty

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Speaker 5: is the number your new talks there'd be. Pete wolf Camp,

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Speaker 5: isn't builder with you this morning? Little bit Kroakie. It's

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Speaker 5: been a weekend of or week of conversation. So as

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Speaker 5: I mentioned in Wellington yesterday in the New Zealand Institute

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Speaker 5: of Building Surveys conference, so fairly extensive discussion. Well annual

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Speaker 5: general meeting yesterday. Conference on Friday with a bunch of speakers.

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Speaker 5: And the great thing with going to these types of

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Speaker 5: conferences this one other ones that I've been invited to

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Speaker 5: over the years, is the quality of the speakers. So

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Speaker 5: had some just outstanding presentations on Friday which was really

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Speaker 5: quite cool, including as it happens, Karen Reid, former All

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Speaker 5: Black Captain, came to talk and then had some panel

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Speaker 5: discussion with a couple of young people who are part

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Speaker 5: of the Keystone Trust, and we talk to them a

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, so I kind of see the

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Speaker 5: sense in these things. I've never been part of a

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Speaker 5: corporate life, so I don't really do the whole going

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Speaker 5: to conference every year type thing. But when you get

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Speaker 5: an opportunity to sort of have a bit of a

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Speaker 5: refresh and the introduction of new ideas makes a lot

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Speaker 5: of sense. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eight years

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Speaker 5: that I'm going to call Yes, I'll just deal with

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Speaker 5: this text quickly, Pete. The Minister is on record of

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Speaker 5: promoting BCA's building consent authorities no longer undertaking physical building inspections. Pete,

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Speaker 5: I've been building twenty years. There is no way complicated

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Speaker 5: elements can be illustrated in detail with photographs, physical inspections

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Speaker 5: and sure quality control and enables the BCA to identify

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Speaker 5: work that's non compliant or needs improvements. In some cases,

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Speaker 5: I take photographs of a few elements for a fire

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Speaker 5: engineer during big jobs where they have confidence based on

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Speaker 5: many site inspections. The Minister on TV has made it

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Speaker 5: clear that he thought this would be more efficient for

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Speaker 5: the BCA and for progress based on common sense and experience,

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Speaker 5: I believe another disaster if adopted. Great show, Pete, listen

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Speaker 5: every Sunday. Very nice of you to call. In fact,

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Speaker 5: we do talk about that with the Minister, so that'll

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Speaker 5: be in the next hour. I think it's going to

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Speaker 5: be maybe slightly more nuanced as it happens at the

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Speaker 5: conference over the weekend. I also hadn't chance to talk

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Speaker 5: to a couple of council building inspectors and lead building

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Speaker 5: inspectors and to get their take on it. As well,

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Speaker 5: and I'll unpack that a little bit more for you

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Speaker 5: in just a moment. Right now, it's your chance to

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Speaker 5: have your say and to ask questions. Eight hundred and

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Speaker 5: eighty ten eighties the number Joanna A very good morning,

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Speaker 5: Hello Joanna.

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Speaker 6: Oh good morning, Yes, hello Pete. I have used a

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Speaker 6: rusing person to spray for like an and moss on

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Speaker 6: my concrete tiles over the years, and I had it

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Speaker 6: done recently and they are now telling me I have

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Speaker 6: cracks in the concrete joints along the ridge lines that

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Speaker 6: are holding me yes styles on And I'm just wondering

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Speaker 6: whether is that sort of work common. The house is

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Speaker 6: about twenty years old.

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Speaker 5: Oh okay, yeah, because things move, right, Our houses move

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Speaker 5: and settle over time. Typically, mortar is not terribly flexible.

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Speaker 5: Saying that, yeah, I mean there is new additives that

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Speaker 5: are elements to mortar today that we might use for

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Speaker 5: what we call pointing of ridge caps and hip cat

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Speaker 5: caps pardon me, that are slightly more flexible, but it's

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Speaker 5: still reasonably rigid. Right, So if there's some settlement or

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Speaker 5: we've had a really big blow or something like that,

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Speaker 5: then you will get cracks. Now, individual cracks and the

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Speaker 5: pointing are probably not a concern in terms of weather tightness.

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Speaker 5: But if the individual cracks then mean that pieces of

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Speaker 5: the mortar fall out, excuse me, then that might be

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Speaker 5: a little bit of an issue. If pieces are falling

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Speaker 5: out but just cracks themselves, I don't know that I'd

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Speaker 5: be too concerned. Certainly, there's a couple of roofs on

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Speaker 5: houses that I look after where you know, the pointing

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Speaker 5: is probably fifty years old, right, and at this stage

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Speaker 5: I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that it's causing

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Speaker 5: any leaks. So something to be aware of, but I

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Speaker 5: don't know that it becomes an urgent repair.

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Speaker 7: No, Okay, that's interesting saying that, you know, if you can,

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Speaker 7: if you trust the contractor, right, because I think the concern.

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Speaker 5: That you might have, or if you don't have it

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Speaker 5: other people listening to the call would have, is that

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Speaker 5: you know, sometimes there are unscrupulous contractors who go turn

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Speaker 5: up and they go, oh my goodness, it's in terrible condition.

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Speaker 5: We've got here just in time, and for two thousand dollars,

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Speaker 5: we can fix that for you, And they end up

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Speaker 5: fixing something it's not really a problem. So you know,

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Speaker 5: if you think that it's a genuine concern. Maybe get

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Speaker 5: another contractor to give you a second opinion, and if

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Speaker 5: both of them agree that, hey, look this is necessary work,

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Speaker 5: I'd get it done because it can be a maintenance issue.

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Speaker 5: But in some case, if it's twenty years old and

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Speaker 5: unless pieces are falling out, I wouldn't be too concerned.

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Speaker 6: No, there's nothing falling out. They've taken photos of the

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Speaker 6: whole route.

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Speaker 3: Well that's good.

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Speaker 6: Yes, but I think I will get another opinion.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it'd be wise. Yes, nice to talk to you,

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Speaker 5: my pleasure. Take care. Jall. We one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 5: ten eighty from one roof to another. Actually, Colleen, good

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Speaker 5: morning to you.

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Speaker 8: Oh hello, o pay. I have a nineteen thirty stucco house.

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Speaker 8: It's a Spanish mission style, so that's got a flat roof, yep.

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Speaker 8: And we'd had a leak in well water damage and

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Speaker 8: the ceiling in one room which had been there for

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Speaker 8: a long time, so we put on a whole We've

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Speaker 8: got a whole brand new roof done or the roofing company, yep.

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Speaker 8: I mean being in an old house. We thought that's

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Speaker 8: the best scenario anyway. But in the process of redoing

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Speaker 8: this ceiling inside the plasterers have said that there still

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Speaker 8: moisture coming through, right, and the fact that we've got

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Speaker 8: a whole brand new roof and guttering in this still moisture,

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Speaker 8: I'm we're sort of confused as to where this water

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Speaker 8: is coming from. We can get into the ceiling space,

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Speaker 8: but not to the rest of the house, but not

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Speaker 8: to this part of the house coming too, it's too low.

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Speaker 8: So I'm just wondering as our best option to try

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Speaker 8: and find this is to cut a hole in the

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Speaker 8: fibrous plaster in the ceiling and go up that way

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Speaker 8: and see if you can see where the water is

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Speaker 8: coming from, or what's the best way to find where

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Speaker 8: the water is actually coming from any ideas.

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Speaker 5: The other challenge with this is defining, Like if the

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Speaker 5: contractors have said we've seen more there's moisture there, it

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Speaker 5: kind of depends a little bit on what they actually

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Speaker 5: mean by that.

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Speaker 8: So, for example, what happened was they'd put in the

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Speaker 8: process of doing the ceilings. I've done keep ceilings in

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Speaker 8: the house, and they've come to this part last. They'd

248
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Speaker 8: put the shore seal on. Yes, and he says it's

249
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Speaker 8: not drying out there and you can still see staining

250
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Speaker 8: coming through, and in the process of that day there

251
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Speaker 8: was more rain and it was getting more moisture coming through.

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Speaker 8: I see that it was darkening. You know that the

253
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Speaker 8: areas around there were all dark, where the rest of

254
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Speaker 8: the roof was ceiling was was dry. Okay, Yeah, so

255
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Speaker 8: it looks like water's coming through and it may be

256
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Speaker 8: pooling in that area. I don't know, yeap, that would.

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Speaker 5: Make sense, Okay. Now, the reason that I wanted to

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Speaker 5: ask that is that in a roof like that, it's

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Speaker 5: potent potentially you have two sources of moisture, right. One

260
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Speaker 5: is obviously it rains and the roof's not completely weather

261
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Speaker 5: tight and the water gets inside. The other is, because

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Speaker 5: it's of the nature of the construction, you can get

263
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Speaker 5: moisture trapped in there through lack of ventilation insulation being

264
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Speaker 5: in the wrong place, right. So it's it's kind of

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Speaker 5: atmospheric moisture that develops in the essentially condensation.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 8: So there's no there's no insulation in that part of

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Speaker 8: the ceiling because it's too it was too low for us, right,

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Speaker 8: So there is inlation other parts, but not there from

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Speaker 8: that area. Yeah, I mean, you can the area is

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Speaker 8: there is a space but it's just not space big

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Speaker 8: enough for anyone to get into there.

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Speaker 5: And knowing that type of so I presume if you're

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Speaker 5: talking about nineteen thirty is house stucco, chances are your

275
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Speaker 5: exterior walls go up and then you've got effectively a

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Speaker 5: parapet maybe on two or three sides, and then the

277
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Speaker 5: roof is inside that minimal fall running to spouting at

278
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Speaker 5: one end right probably away from the road frontage. Okay,

279
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Speaker 5: the contractors that came to do the rear roof a

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Speaker 5: couple of things. One is did they offer any warranties

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Speaker 5: and realistically they should have done. Have you invited them

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Speaker 5: back to yes.

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Speaker 8: I they supposedly came back this week. I've found them

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Speaker 8: and told them or explained their situation. But the reason

285
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Speaker 8: I'm ringing you is because we had a few other

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Speaker 8: issues with it as well, and so I haven't got

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Speaker 8: that much faith in them, although they are part of

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Speaker 8: the Roofing Association and they rate and they do have

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Speaker 8: a warranty. So I'm just trying to I thought, I'll

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Speaker 8: just call you to try and pre empty a few questions. Yeah,

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Speaker 8: sure this week and say, oh, this systems and the

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Speaker 8: other thing.

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Speaker 9: I guess to another area.

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Speaker 8: I don't know. I know it's hard with the flat

295
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Speaker 8: roof houses, but.

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Speaker 5: They are, but there are ways around that, right, So

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Speaker 5: you know they're challenging if you don't detail them right

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Speaker 5: or if you don't use the right product. So was

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Speaker 5: there corrugated iron on there previously? Most likely? And do

300
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Speaker 5: you happen to know what the actual roof pitch is like?

301
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Speaker 5: Has anyone ever done a calculation said, oh, this roof

302
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Speaker 5: is If you feel like doing a bit of maths,

303
00:17:55,815 --> 00:17:59,655
Speaker 5: that would be quite interesting to figure that out. So,

304
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Speaker 5: for example, typically roofing corrugated iron is designed for roofs

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Speaker 5: with at least about a seven degree pitch on them.

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Speaker 8: Now, if you use it, I would say, So, I've

307
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Speaker 8: been up on the road and there is definitely looking

308
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Speaker 8: some you know some there is definitely some fall.

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Speaker 5: I suspect knowing those types of houses, that in fact

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Speaker 5: it's less than seven degrees, but it probably won't be

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Speaker 5: less than three degrees. And so ideally, if you're somewhere

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Speaker 5: in that spot between three degrees and seven degrees, you

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Speaker 5: want to use a profile of corrugated iron called true oak,

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Speaker 5: which has a taller profile. Right, So the distance from

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Speaker 5: the top of the iron, you know, the crinkle, let's

316
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Speaker 5: say from the bottom to the top is taller. It's

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Speaker 5: about twenty three millimeters, which doesn't sound like a lot,

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Speaker 5: but it's more than eighteen nineteen degrees, which is kind

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Speaker 5: of where modern corrigid iron gets to and so it

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Speaker 5: carries more water and it's more suited for that. So

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Speaker 5: it'll be interesting to ask the contractor what profile of

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Speaker 5: corrugated iron they use. The fact that they're a member

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Speaker 5: of the Roofing Association is good because it does give

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Speaker 5: you the opportunity if you're not confident about their ability

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Speaker 5: to solve the issue, and it should be theirs to solve, right,

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Speaker 5: is that you could then go to the Roofing Association

327
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Speaker 5: and go could I ask one of your supervisors or

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Speaker 5: assessors to come out and have a look at the

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Speaker 5: quality of the work done by one of your members.

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Speaker 5: And typically that way you'll get someone who's really, really experienced,

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Speaker 5: and I know some of them who will come out.

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Speaker 5: And if the original contractor is not able to determine

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Speaker 5: where the leak comes from, you can draw on the

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00:19:37,615 --> 00:19:39,815
Speaker 5: experience of the association and they might be able to

335
00:19:39,895 --> 00:19:44,215
Speaker 5: help you. But I think it's not unreasonable for them.

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Speaker 5: If they've done the job and they've offered a warranty,

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Speaker 5: it should be where the type end of story. There

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Speaker 5: shouldn't be any expert.

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Speaker 8: That's what I just wanted, some sort of a second option.

340
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Speaker 5: And potentially what it is is it might not actually

341
00:19:59,495 --> 00:20:02,415
Speaker 5: be about the roofing. It might be about the flashing junction. Right,

342
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Speaker 5: So whether or not they've taken their flashings and gone

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Speaker 5: to the top of the parapet, did they potentially replace

344
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Speaker 5: the parapet flashings? Is that a source of leaks?

345
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Speaker 8: Yeah, there was actually no fleshings along the parapets. Put

346
00:20:18,015 --> 00:20:18,695
Speaker 8: fleshings on them.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well that's a good thing, all right.

348
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Speaker 8: Look, I think joined in the fleshing though.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but that's not unexpected. And again, if we know,

350
00:20:27,095 --> 00:20:29,255
Speaker 5: typically would lap them one hundred and fifty mili, we'd

351
00:20:29,295 --> 00:20:32,975
Speaker 5: do two beads of silicon and then fix them down appropriately.

352
00:20:33,095 --> 00:20:36,535
Speaker 5: So you know, joins are okay, you just have to

353
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Speaker 5: detail and execute them correctly. So look, I have to

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Speaker 5: say having I was in a conversation earlier in the

355
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Speaker 5: week about roofing and about roofing contractors, and you know

356
00:20:48,935 --> 00:20:51,735
Speaker 5: the concern that a number of contractors are not part

357
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Speaker 5: of the Roofing Association, at which time if you have

358
00:20:54,695 --> 00:20:57,215
Speaker 5: a problem with them, you've kind of got nowhere to go, so,

359
00:20:57,775 --> 00:21:01,735
Speaker 5: you know, unless you've got contacts for contractors. I think

360
00:21:01,815 --> 00:21:05,815
Speaker 5: it's really important that people choosing contractors choose people who

361
00:21:05,855 --> 00:21:10,935
Speaker 5: are a license registered LBPS or members of associations. And

362
00:21:10,975 --> 00:21:12,135
Speaker 5: you've done that, which is great.

363
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Speaker 6: Yeah.

364
00:21:13,055 --> 00:21:15,215
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, actually from listening to your show, that's why

365
00:21:15,415 --> 00:21:16,055
Speaker 8: I chose to on.

366
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Speaker 5: Well, thank you for saying that.

367
00:21:17,975 --> 00:21:20,455
Speaker 8: Well, it's one from the roof Association. I mean I

368
00:21:20,455 --> 00:21:22,015
Speaker 8: didn't think I was going to need it, but now

369
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Speaker 8: I'm thinking, well, actually maybe I will need it. Depends

370
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Speaker 8: on what they say is when they come this week,

371
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Speaker 8: and hopefully they'll be able to sort of.

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Speaker 5: Get them back. I think it's really important. Yeah, I

373
00:21:32,015 --> 00:21:34,375
Speaker 5: think it's really important. In fact, I think in consumer

374
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Speaker 5: law you have to give the original contractor the opportunity

375
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Speaker 5: to come and do the remediation. And if you're not

376
00:21:41,135 --> 00:21:43,535
Speaker 5: confident with that, or even if you just want a

377
00:21:43,575 --> 00:21:46,335
Speaker 5: second pair of eyes over it, contact the Roofing Association

378
00:21:46,615 --> 00:21:48,095
Speaker 5: get them to come out and do a site visit.

379
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Speaker 8: Yeah, good luck, Okay, Well, thank you for your.

380
00:21:50,975 --> 00:21:53,535
Speaker 5: Having all right, no trouble at all, Take care, all right,

381
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Speaker 5: all the best bar I think, oh eight one hundred

382
00:21:55,255 --> 00:21:57,495
Speaker 5: and eighty ten eighty is the number to call. Will

383
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Speaker 5: take a short break. I'll talk a little bit more about,

384
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Speaker 5: you know, contract the selection straight after the break back

385
00:22:02,895 --> 00:22:06,895
Speaker 5: in the my just quickly I can. The conversation I

386
00:22:06,895 --> 00:22:09,655
Speaker 5: had this week was about a contractor that I know

387
00:22:09,695 --> 00:22:12,815
Speaker 5: who rang me, who is acting on behalf of a

388
00:22:12,855 --> 00:22:17,175
Speaker 5: client who, it's greatst respect, was probably an older woman

389
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Speaker 5: on her own and had contracted someone to renovate the bathroom.

390
00:22:22,335 --> 00:22:26,255
Speaker 5: And so someone turned up. They said, ah, this is great, yep,

391
00:22:26,335 --> 00:22:29,215
Speaker 5: we can start sort of soon and I'll do everything.

392
00:22:29,535 --> 00:22:31,975
Speaker 5: I'll pull the old one out, I'll do the waterproofing

393
00:22:32,215 --> 00:22:34,615
Speaker 5: or i'll do the plumbing, I'll do the lining, I'll

394
00:22:34,655 --> 00:22:37,375
Speaker 5: do the I'll fit the shower, I'll do the tiling.

395
00:22:37,495 --> 00:22:39,655
Speaker 5: Da da da da da. Anyway, it's been a bit

396
00:22:39,695 --> 00:22:42,735
Speaker 5: of a disaster. They've got leaks, they've got tiles falling off.

397
00:22:43,135 --> 00:22:46,655
Speaker 5: It's been a really poor quality job all the way round.

398
00:22:47,455 --> 00:22:50,495
Speaker 5: But of course, because the person's not licensed, certainly not

399
00:22:50,575 --> 00:22:52,935
Speaker 5: licensed to be a plumber, and therefore they've broken the law.

400
00:22:52,975 --> 00:22:57,215
Speaker 5: There probably don't have any qualifications in terms of the waterproofing,

401
00:22:57,655 --> 00:22:59,735
Speaker 5: even you know, having attended a course on how to

402
00:22:59,735 --> 00:23:05,495
Speaker 5: install that particular waterproofing. They're not an LBP, they're not

403
00:23:05,535 --> 00:23:08,775
Speaker 5: part of any profit association, and so when you're looking

404
00:23:08,775 --> 00:23:11,615
Speaker 5: for redress, where do you go? You've got no support.

405
00:23:11,695 --> 00:23:14,575
Speaker 5: You can't go to an aid an organization and go look,

406
00:23:14,655 --> 00:23:17,215
Speaker 5: one of your members has done X, Y and Z.

407
00:23:17,495 --> 00:23:21,575
Speaker 5: So I'm really delighted to hear that, Colleen. In choosing

408
00:23:21,775 --> 00:23:24,175
Speaker 5: to have, you know, something as important as an expensive

409
00:23:24,215 --> 00:23:27,935
Speaker 5: as doing a reroof you look around for contractors who

410
00:23:28,535 --> 00:23:32,775
Speaker 5: are professional and maybe have some professional association. So roofing

411
00:23:32,895 --> 00:23:36,375
Speaker 5: is restricted building work, so someone should be an LBP,

412
00:23:36,535 --> 00:23:39,615
Speaker 5: a licensed building practitioner. But the fact that they've then

413
00:23:39,695 --> 00:23:41,775
Speaker 5: gone on to be part of an association, I think

414
00:23:41,815 --> 00:23:43,735
Speaker 5: gives you some surety and it gives you somewhere to

415
00:23:43,775 --> 00:23:47,015
Speaker 5: go when maybe things don't work out well. So that's

416
00:23:47,735 --> 00:23:50,015
Speaker 5: good to hear from Colleen. Oh, eight hundred and eighty

417
00:23:50,055 --> 00:23:52,095
Speaker 5: ten eighty is the number to call. Just a reminder,

418
00:23:52,215 --> 00:23:55,415
Speaker 5: will take calls this hour next hour. I had the

419
00:23:55,455 --> 00:23:58,695
Speaker 5: opportunity to do a fairly extensive interview with the Minister

420
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Speaker 5: for Building and Construction, the honorable Chris Penk. We will

421
00:24:02,295 --> 00:24:05,815
Speaker 5: have that interview for you after the seven o'clock news. Michelle,

422
00:24:05,855 --> 00:24:06,495
Speaker 5: good morning.

423
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Speaker 10: Morning, I love your love listening to a little woman.

424
00:24:12,655 --> 00:24:16,855
Speaker 10: What we're about to get our deck be done. So

425
00:24:16,895 --> 00:24:20,775
Speaker 10: this is the question about what to do. So we've

426
00:24:20,815 --> 00:24:25,215
Speaker 10: currently got a queer deck. We have four decks around

427
00:24:25,335 --> 00:24:28,135
Speaker 10: the house. Yes, we're going to extend one, et cetera.

428
00:24:28,615 --> 00:24:33,255
Speaker 10: At the moment, you've got the ripped side up, and

429
00:24:33,295 --> 00:24:35,575
Speaker 10: the reason we want to redo it is because what

430
00:24:35,695 --> 00:24:38,695
Speaker 10: happens is it gets water in it, and then it

431
00:24:38,735 --> 00:24:42,175
Speaker 10: gets moss and then we're having to constantly paint it

432
00:24:42,895 --> 00:24:44,935
Speaker 10: and you know, like it grows.

433
00:24:44,535 --> 00:24:44,935
Speaker 11: In the ale.

434
00:24:46,015 --> 00:24:49,975
Speaker 10: So we've got bill designed that's going to start next week.

435
00:24:50,655 --> 00:24:53,895
Speaker 10: They said, because initially we thought we would just get

436
00:24:53,935 --> 00:24:57,295
Speaker 10: them play lift it, flip it over to its smooth side,

437
00:24:57,375 --> 00:24:59,695
Speaker 10: because we actually want to paint it gray. We don't

438
00:24:59,735 --> 00:25:04,455
Speaker 10: want to have that ground look the white the white house.

439
00:25:05,295 --> 00:25:07,695
Speaker 10: So one of the said, well, what you know was

440
00:25:07,735 --> 00:25:10,455
Speaker 10: been lifted up and then you know the flat side

441
00:25:11,055 --> 00:25:14,575
Speaker 10: and then you know, get the paint and painted. But

442
00:25:14,775 --> 00:25:19,375
Speaker 10: they also said there is a number of composite or

443
00:25:19,455 --> 00:25:24,655
Speaker 10: some sort of other product that we could look at.

444
00:25:26,495 --> 00:25:29,975
Speaker 10: So can you just advise because we're in a quandary

445
00:25:30,135 --> 00:25:33,815
Speaker 10: as to do we just chuck it away and put

446
00:25:33,855 --> 00:25:37,895
Speaker 10: a new product? If I do a lot of decks

447
00:25:37,935 --> 00:25:44,295
Speaker 10: and showing us Yeah, so what would you recon mean

448
00:25:44,495 --> 00:25:47,215
Speaker 10: is something that's gonna last that's not going to get

449
00:25:47,255 --> 00:25:48,295
Speaker 10: that old dollar?

450
00:25:48,615 --> 00:25:48,815
Speaker 12: Yeah?

451
00:25:48,895 --> 00:25:55,695
Speaker 5: Sure, yes, I guess there's a couple of different approaches here.

452
00:25:55,735 --> 00:25:59,575
Speaker 5: One is if I put my sustainability hat on, which

453
00:25:59,615 --> 00:26:02,175
Speaker 5: is pretty important to me, then I'd go. You know,

454
00:26:02,255 --> 00:26:06,295
Speaker 5: if you've got decking material that's durable and as well

455
00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:09,015
Speaker 5: within its lifespan, and you can extend that life span

456
00:26:09,175 --> 00:26:12,735
Speaker 5: by reusing it, that's a really good choice to make. Right,

457
00:26:13,495 --> 00:26:16,935
Speaker 5: So you're not wasting a resource that you've already spent

458
00:26:16,975 --> 00:26:19,495
Speaker 5: money on. You're not sending something to landfill, and I

459
00:26:19,535 --> 00:26:20,975
Speaker 5: hope you wouldn't do that. You'd send it off to

460
00:26:21,015 --> 00:26:24,495
Speaker 5: a recycling center. So if there was an opportunity, if

461
00:26:24,495 --> 00:26:28,175
Speaker 5: the boards are in reasonable condition, if they for example,

462
00:26:28,175 --> 00:26:30,935
Speaker 5: if they were screwed down rather than being nailed down.

463
00:26:30,975 --> 00:26:33,855
Speaker 5: So I'm being practical here lifting boards that have been

464
00:26:33,935 --> 00:26:36,215
Speaker 5: nailed down, you will get a bit of damage. If

465
00:26:36,215 --> 00:26:38,175
Speaker 5: the boards have been screwed down. You can back the

466
00:26:38,215 --> 00:26:41,215
Speaker 5: screws out, flip the boards over, you might even give

467
00:26:41,255 --> 00:26:43,895
Speaker 5: them a bit of individual attention before you relay them.

468
00:26:44,255 --> 00:26:48,015
Speaker 5: And so you know, cost wise and environmentally, that's a

469
00:26:48,055 --> 00:26:51,775
Speaker 5: really good choice. So that's something consider. The other option

470
00:26:52,055 --> 00:26:55,375
Speaker 5: is some of the composite boards, where there is a

471
00:26:55,495 --> 00:26:59,255
Speaker 5: range of colors. I've used a couple of them over

472
00:26:59,255 --> 00:27:01,615
Speaker 5: the years. The one that I've probably used the most

473
00:27:01,735 --> 00:27:06,095
Speaker 5: is one from a company called out Dure, and that

474
00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:10,335
Speaker 5: the benefits of that is that you will you will

475
00:27:10,375 --> 00:27:14,495
Speaker 5: get a concealed fixed system, which is kind of nice.

476
00:27:15,295 --> 00:27:19,815
Speaker 5: They have a slightly better slip resistance to them because

477
00:27:19,855 --> 00:27:22,815
Speaker 5: of the way that they're made. So you know, if

478
00:27:22,855 --> 00:27:25,135
Speaker 5: you take your queeler and flip it over and have

479
00:27:25,215 --> 00:27:28,895
Speaker 5: the smooth side up, that will have less slip resistance

480
00:27:28,935 --> 00:27:31,975
Speaker 5: than some of the composites. But if you know, if

481
00:27:31,975 --> 00:27:34,735
Speaker 5: you're doing four decks and you're throwing away four decks

482
00:27:34,735 --> 00:27:37,135
Speaker 5: worth of timber and then buying four decks worth of

483
00:27:37,295 --> 00:27:42,975
Speaker 5: new material and you don't need to, I guess my

484
00:27:43,455 --> 00:27:47,175
Speaker 5: heart would say do something to reuse what you've already got.

485
00:27:47,215 --> 00:27:49,815
Speaker 5: But then I'm coming very strongly from a point of

486
00:27:49,895 --> 00:27:52,975
Speaker 5: view where I don't like to see us waste resources,

487
00:27:53,655 --> 00:27:57,575
Speaker 5: and so I would favor reuse over purchasing you. But

488
00:27:57,695 --> 00:28:01,655
Speaker 5: that's more kind of a political decision than a practical one,

489
00:28:01,735 --> 00:28:04,975
Speaker 5: let's say. But yeah, some of some of the composites

490
00:28:04,975 --> 00:28:05,535
Speaker 5: are very good.

491
00:28:07,335 --> 00:28:10,775
Speaker 10: Yeah, and which someone lasts the longest, Like the slip

492
00:28:10,815 --> 00:28:13,935
Speaker 10: thing has been an issue because these ridges, when they

493
00:28:13,975 --> 00:28:16,535
Speaker 10: get wet that it's actually not a you know what

494
00:28:16,575 --> 00:28:18,775
Speaker 10: I mean, that's why we're and isn't.

495
00:28:18,575 --> 00:28:22,015
Speaker 5: That curious because typically we flip the boards up to

496
00:28:22,015 --> 00:28:26,095
Speaker 5: have the rib side up because it helps stop slipping, right,

497
00:28:26,135 --> 00:28:30,215
Speaker 5: But your experiences they actually get more slippery as a result,

498
00:28:30,935 --> 00:28:33,255
Speaker 5: and doc to be fair, if I'm laying decking that

499
00:28:33,335 --> 00:28:37,095
Speaker 5: has the ribs on it, I would typically put those down,

500
00:28:37,175 --> 00:28:39,655
Speaker 5: but I often use I often flip them back up

501
00:28:39,695 --> 00:28:43,175
Speaker 5: again if they're on the nose of a stair, so

502
00:28:43,295 --> 00:28:45,895
Speaker 5: on the edge of a stair, just it helps with

503
00:28:45,895 --> 00:28:48,175
Speaker 5: a bit of slip resistance. And it's a visual queue

504
00:28:48,175 --> 00:28:55,655
Speaker 5: that there's a step here. So yeah, look, yeah, for

505
00:28:55,695 --> 00:28:59,455
Speaker 5: what it's worth, possibly i'd probably if I was looking

506
00:28:59,455 --> 00:29:02,535
Speaker 5: at it, i'd probably encourage you to reuse. But if

507
00:29:02,535 --> 00:29:05,775
Speaker 5: you didn't, then you know, get the builders to lift

508
00:29:05,815 --> 00:29:07,895
Speaker 5: it in such a way that potentially it could be

509
00:29:08,015 --> 00:29:10,775
Speaker 5: sold and someone else gets to buy it, which would

510
00:29:10,815 --> 00:29:15,575
Speaker 5: be great. And or you know, in the very worst case,

511
00:29:15,655 --> 00:29:18,615
Speaker 5: if you are sending that material away, make sure it's

512
00:29:18,615 --> 00:29:20,415
Speaker 5: going to a site that recycles it.

513
00:29:21,935 --> 00:29:27,575
Speaker 10: Yeah, so just one more question mentioned they could put

514
00:29:27,655 --> 00:29:30,615
Speaker 10: you know, we've been discussing what to do about it,

515
00:29:30,775 --> 00:29:33,655
Speaker 10: but it's so much digging. If they also say, well

516
00:29:33,735 --> 00:29:37,695
Speaker 10: we could replace it with pine digging, yep, it gives

517
00:29:37,735 --> 00:29:38,455
Speaker 10: you you.

518
00:29:38,415 --> 00:29:41,215
Speaker 13: Know, a because we do want to paint it the

519
00:29:41,295 --> 00:29:44,535
Speaker 13: beas and beans. We get a lot of sunshine, and

520
00:29:46,495 --> 00:29:50,055
Speaker 13: we in our last property we owned, we made a

521
00:29:50,055 --> 00:29:52,855
Speaker 13: couple of mistakes. We put black outside in the pool area,

522
00:29:52,895 --> 00:29:55,055
Speaker 13: which is we're going to be decking around this pool

523
00:29:55,095 --> 00:30:01,215
Speaker 13: as well, and we painted it too whiter dead and

524
00:30:01,295 --> 00:30:02,255
Speaker 13: it's got too hot.

525
00:30:02,775 --> 00:30:05,175
Speaker 10: So we sort of want something that you.

526
00:30:05,135 --> 00:30:09,255
Speaker 14: Know, there is flatness, move easier to just give it

527
00:30:09,295 --> 00:30:11,615
Speaker 14: a quick hose to keep it playing. We don't want

528
00:30:11,655 --> 00:30:14,415
Speaker 14: the moss as you yeah, and we don't want it

529
00:30:14,455 --> 00:30:17,095
Speaker 14: to be too hot for the green tests not to

530
00:30:17,135 --> 00:30:19,175
Speaker 14: be able to send or do you know what I mean?

531
00:30:19,975 --> 00:30:23,975
Speaker 5: So again, look, I certainly don't have a problem recommending

532
00:30:24,495 --> 00:30:27,615
Speaker 5: soft woods like Pinus Radiata. I think it's really important

533
00:30:27,615 --> 00:30:31,135
Speaker 5: to seal it, as in put in a penetrating oil seal.

534
00:30:32,015 --> 00:30:34,815
Speaker 5: I certainly don't when you say paint, I presume that

535
00:30:34,815 --> 00:30:38,415
Speaker 5: what you mean is staining, right, You're not actually going.

536
00:30:38,335 --> 00:30:39,495
Speaker 15: To paint it.

537
00:30:38,935 --> 00:30:41,935
Speaker 5: If you start painting it, you're just creating a lot

538
00:30:41,935 --> 00:30:45,495
Speaker 5: of work for yourself and it'll be quite slippery. So again,

539
00:30:45,575 --> 00:30:51,015
Speaker 5: Pinus Radiator good quality. That it definitely becomes a question

540
00:30:51,135 --> 00:30:54,255
Speaker 5: if you get what you pay for right, So don't

541
00:30:54,815 --> 00:30:57,175
Speaker 5: you know if you're going to get a cheap product

542
00:30:57,255 --> 00:31:00,015
Speaker 5: or a cheaper or more cost effective product, make sure

543
00:31:00,015 --> 00:31:01,855
Speaker 5: you look at it first, because certainly I've been to

544
00:31:01,895 --> 00:31:05,535
Speaker 5: a job where the owner bought the decking themselves, thought

545
00:31:05,535 --> 00:31:07,295
Speaker 5: that they'd got a real deal and it was just

546
00:31:07,375 --> 00:31:09,095
Speaker 5: rubbish and we ended up having to send it back

547
00:31:09,135 --> 00:31:11,855
Speaker 5: and buy something decent. So make sure you get some

548
00:31:11,975 --> 00:31:14,935
Speaker 5: really good material. I've got to run, Michelle, But good

549
00:31:14,975 --> 00:31:17,895
Speaker 5: luck with all of those eight hundred eighty ten eighties

550
00:31:17,895 --> 00:31:20,095
Speaker 5: that I'm going to call Anthony, good morning.

551
00:31:20,975 --> 00:31:21,655
Speaker 9: Good morning piece.

552
00:31:21,695 --> 00:31:22,655
Speaker 5: Hey, how you doing.

553
00:31:23,495 --> 00:31:25,775
Speaker 9: I've got a good I've got a question for you.

554
00:31:26,255 --> 00:31:28,935
Speaker 9: My daughter is looking around to buy her first house,

555
00:31:29,015 --> 00:31:32,575
Speaker 9: and we went to a few open houses. She found

556
00:31:32,655 --> 00:31:38,855
Speaker 9: one new bill and it's my question, is the laundry.

557
00:31:39,175 --> 00:31:41,215
Speaker 9: The laundry is a meet up by meta?

558
00:31:41,455 --> 00:31:41,655
Speaker 5: Yep.

559
00:31:41,735 --> 00:31:45,255
Speaker 9: It's got no it's got notub or not sink or

560
00:31:45,335 --> 00:31:51,055
Speaker 9: not provision for it yep. And is that okay? Is

561
00:31:51,175 --> 00:31:53,095
Speaker 9: how they build them these days or do you do

562
00:31:53,135 --> 00:31:53,655
Speaker 9: you have to.

563
00:31:53,535 --> 00:31:54,215
Speaker 15: Have that in there?

564
00:31:55,055 --> 00:31:58,535
Speaker 5: You don't have to have a laundry sink, right, They're

565
00:31:58,575 --> 00:32:01,255
Speaker 5: really good to have, obviously, and there's a practical reason

566
00:32:01,295 --> 00:32:05,135
Speaker 5: for having one. But you know, increasingly we're building more

567
00:32:05,215 --> 00:32:07,695
Speaker 5: and more compact house is right, So something's got to

568
00:32:07,735 --> 00:32:11,135
Speaker 5: give because we just don't have the floor space. So yeah,

569
00:32:11,455 --> 00:32:14,415
Speaker 5: it's not a requirement in the building code as far

570
00:32:14,415 --> 00:32:16,695
Speaker 5: as I'm concerned, or as far as I'm aware, to

571
00:32:16,775 --> 00:32:17,815
Speaker 5: have a laundry sink.

572
00:32:19,655 --> 00:32:23,255
Speaker 9: The other thing is because the laundry is as usual

573
00:32:23,295 --> 00:32:27,455
Speaker 9: these days, it's under the stairs, yes, And it's got

574
00:32:27,615 --> 00:32:33,615
Speaker 9: no height to mount the dryer right wall itself. Yeah,

575
00:32:34,695 --> 00:32:36,415
Speaker 9: So what do you do with a dryer these days?

576
00:32:36,455 --> 00:32:37,015
Speaker 9: Just put it in the.

577
00:32:40,695 --> 00:32:41,055
Speaker 5: Well?

578
00:32:41,495 --> 00:32:41,735
Speaker 3: Yeah?

579
00:32:41,775 --> 00:32:44,735
Speaker 5: And I mean there's probably other issues around, like, for example,

580
00:32:44,855 --> 00:32:46,655
Speaker 5: I would hope that in a space like that, it

581
00:32:46,775 --> 00:32:49,375
Speaker 5: has ventilation or extraction in it.

582
00:32:50,095 --> 00:32:50,495
Speaker 16: They do.

583
00:32:51,535 --> 00:32:57,335
Speaker 9: There's a little tiny thing other thing does bloody hell.

584
00:32:57,375 --> 00:33:01,575
Speaker 9: It's about two hundred by two hundred. Yeah.

585
00:33:01,615 --> 00:33:03,935
Speaker 5: Look, if it's a one fifty and it's a reasonable run,

586
00:33:04,015 --> 00:33:09,695
Speaker 5: it'll be doing something and that's really important. Yeah, I mean, look,

587
00:33:09,775 --> 00:33:11,855
Speaker 5: this is this is just one of the challenges we

588
00:33:11,935 --> 00:33:17,615
Speaker 5: have with more compact living, right, And you know, you

589
00:33:17,695 --> 00:33:20,055
Speaker 5: might I do. You know, I have space where we've

590
00:33:20,095 --> 00:33:22,975
Speaker 5: got a bench and the appliances, and I can hang

591
00:33:23,015 --> 00:33:24,855
Speaker 5: the dryer on the wall and I conduct it out

592
00:33:24,855 --> 00:33:28,135
Speaker 5: through the wall to the outside. But in many modern

593
00:33:28,135 --> 00:33:33,095
Speaker 5: apartments you can't. So I guess if it's not there,

594
00:33:33,575 --> 00:33:37,095
Speaker 5: really hard to create it. But as best I understand it,

595
00:33:37,135 --> 00:33:40,055
Speaker 5: there's no requirement in the building code to develop houses

596
00:33:40,055 --> 00:33:41,215
Speaker 5: that allow for that. Yeah.

597
00:33:41,735 --> 00:33:46,015
Speaker 9: Just one more thing. The switchboard. Electrical switchboard. I thought

598
00:33:46,055 --> 00:33:48,255
Speaker 9: they had to be on outside these days, but this

599
00:33:48,295 --> 00:33:50,895
Speaker 9: one is the inside the dining room.

600
00:33:51,335 --> 00:33:54,695
Speaker 5: No much more common these days. And let's separate out

601
00:33:54,775 --> 00:33:58,255
Speaker 5: two things here. One is the meter, right, which is

602
00:33:58,295 --> 00:34:00,535
Speaker 5: where your man's run to, and it calculates how much

603
00:34:00,655 --> 00:34:03,455
Speaker 5: energy usage you've got. The other is the distribution board

604
00:34:03,855 --> 00:34:09,215
Speaker 5: increasingly distribution actually a meet yourself. No, it's not uncommon

605
00:34:09,255 --> 00:34:12,375
Speaker 5: for them to be inside. Typically, if for the projects

606
00:34:12,375 --> 00:34:14,055
Speaker 5: that I've been doing, I would try and put them

607
00:34:14,055 --> 00:34:18,495
Speaker 5: in the garage. But a lot of modern medium density

608
00:34:18,495 --> 00:34:21,775
Speaker 5: housing actually don't have a garage, in which case they

609
00:34:21,855 --> 00:34:24,215
Speaker 5: end up maybe close to the front door, and the

610
00:34:24,215 --> 00:34:26,615
Speaker 5: front door basically goes straight into the lounge, so you

611
00:34:26,695 --> 00:34:28,295
Speaker 5: end up with them in the lounge.

612
00:34:28,935 --> 00:34:31,295
Speaker 9: Yeah, this doesn't have a garage, so that's that's why

613
00:34:31,335 --> 00:34:34,335
Speaker 9: it's not in the garage, I suppose, yep. Yeah, And

614
00:34:34,615 --> 00:34:38,375
Speaker 9: just one way question, if I can this unit? She

615
00:34:38,455 --> 00:34:41,575
Speaker 9: looked at she it's it's there's a five I think

616
00:34:41,615 --> 00:34:44,215
Speaker 9: in the block and hers her one is at the

617
00:34:44,295 --> 00:34:49,175
Speaker 9: highest point of the land, if you like, yes, now

618
00:34:49,815 --> 00:34:52,375
Speaker 9: at the back seemed to me like there could be

619
00:34:52,495 --> 00:34:55,815
Speaker 9: some water issues where the water is gonna, you know,

620
00:34:55,855 --> 00:34:59,055
Speaker 9: on a heavy range water the backyard, it's got to

621
00:34:59,095 --> 00:35:01,495
Speaker 9: go somewhere. It's obviously going to go down to the

622
00:35:01,495 --> 00:35:05,095
Speaker 9: other units. How does how do you sort it out?

623
00:35:05,215 --> 00:35:07,775
Speaker 9: And can they say, look, you have to keep your

624
00:35:07,855 --> 00:35:10,175
Speaker 9: water on your property or how does it work?

625
00:35:10,935 --> 00:35:14,415
Speaker 5: I guess only water that lands on your roof. Do

626
00:35:14,495 --> 00:35:16,175
Speaker 5: you have to contain, right, So.

627
00:35:17,055 --> 00:35:21,975
Speaker 9: That runs water on a grass or that's fine.

628
00:35:22,135 --> 00:35:25,495
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, as long as it's not set up in

629
00:35:25,535 --> 00:35:28,295
Speaker 5: such a way that it's an obvious nuisance. But in

630
00:35:28,335 --> 00:35:31,575
Speaker 5: the end, you know, you can't stop water going downhill, right,

631
00:35:31,975 --> 00:35:35,615
Speaker 5: So whether or not it's your property and or it's

632
00:35:35,775 --> 00:35:37,975
Speaker 5: you're adjoined to your neighbor because you're in a multi

633
00:35:38,055 --> 00:35:40,775
Speaker 5: unit development or something like that. So I think there's

634
00:35:40,895 --> 00:35:43,535
Speaker 5: kind of a reasonableness to it. But what, for example,

635
00:35:43,535 --> 00:35:45,735
Speaker 5: what you can't do is discharge your roof water in

636
00:35:45,775 --> 00:35:47,935
Speaker 5: such a way that it becomes a nuisance for a neighbor.

637
00:35:48,215 --> 00:35:51,215
Speaker 5: But if if and because chances are the water that

638
00:35:51,415 --> 00:35:54,295
Speaker 5: is on your the house that your daughter might end

639
00:35:54,335 --> 00:35:56,895
Speaker 5: up purchasing, that might come from the neighbor, right, So

640
00:35:56,935 --> 00:35:59,735
Speaker 5: it comes from the neighbor onto this property and then

641
00:35:59,775 --> 00:36:02,015
Speaker 5: goes to the next one. So as long as it's

642
00:36:02,055 --> 00:36:07,055
Speaker 5: not deliberate, I think you're okay. All right, nice to

643
00:36:07,095 --> 00:36:08,855
Speaker 5: talk to you, lovely to chat and good luck with

644
00:36:08,935 --> 00:36:11,135
Speaker 5: the house hunting. All right mate, all the us take

645
00:36:11,175 --> 00:36:14,175
Speaker 5: care bye bayh. We'll talk to Craig straight after the break.

646
00:36:14,935 --> 00:36:17,335
Speaker 5: Quick text. Is there anywhere that you can go to

647
00:36:17,415 --> 00:36:20,895
Speaker 5: check that the LBP is registered or do you just

648
00:36:21,095 --> 00:36:24,895
Speaker 5: ask the LBP or the builder if they are. One

649
00:36:24,895 --> 00:36:26,935
Speaker 5: of the best things about the LBP scheme is it's

650
00:36:26,935 --> 00:36:30,575
Speaker 5: completely open, right, So you simply go to building dot

651
00:36:30,615 --> 00:36:36,495
Speaker 5: gov dot nz forward slash LBP and then select search register,

652
00:36:37,055 --> 00:36:40,615
Speaker 5: type in the name or they really the name of

653
00:36:40,695 --> 00:36:43,095
Speaker 5: the person and it will come up. And if they're

654
00:36:43,095 --> 00:36:46,335
Speaker 5: not there, they are not an LBP. If they were

655
00:36:46,375 --> 00:36:49,375
Speaker 5: an LBP but have been deregistered for some reason, or

656
00:36:49,375 --> 00:36:51,775
Speaker 5: their name has been taken off the current list, that

657
00:36:51,855 --> 00:36:56,015
Speaker 5: will come up. And any other information about them like if,

658
00:36:56,055 --> 00:37:00,055
Speaker 5: for example, they had failed to get re license in time,

659
00:37:00,135 --> 00:37:02,615
Speaker 5: had their license suspended for a period of time but

660
00:37:02,695 --> 00:37:05,775
Speaker 5: then reinstated. All of that's there. So building dot gov,

661
00:37:05,815 --> 00:37:09,135
Speaker 5: dot nz forward slash LBP will give you all of

662
00:37:09,175 --> 00:37:11,455
Speaker 5: that information. Like I say, you're either on it or

663
00:37:11,455 --> 00:37:15,655
Speaker 5: you're not. I had to relicense the other day, so

664
00:37:16,095 --> 00:37:19,375
Speaker 5: before I expired, I've done that. It's been accepted. I'm

665
00:37:19,415 --> 00:37:23,175
Speaker 5: on the list. I'm number BP one two zero zero,

666
00:37:23,375 --> 00:37:26,495
Speaker 5: nine to eight. It's as simple as that. Craig, good morning,

667
00:37:27,295 --> 00:37:28,895
Speaker 5: good morning, haws a game, good things.

668
00:37:30,015 --> 00:37:31,735
Speaker 15: It's bringing on Behalf a friend of mine who doesn't

669
00:37:31,775 --> 00:37:34,935
Speaker 15: like ring up radio station. He's a little bit shy.

670
00:37:35,695 --> 00:37:38,895
Speaker 15: He's old school. He's got a problem with this pool.

671
00:37:38,935 --> 00:37:41,735
Speaker 15: As far as the council goes. Their property is down

672
00:37:42,055 --> 00:37:44,695
Speaker 15: a right away down the bottom of a quite a

673
00:37:44,735 --> 00:37:46,895
Speaker 15: large steep hill with their houses. They are the only

674
00:37:46,895 --> 00:37:49,935
Speaker 15: one down there, and then it goes up a steep

675
00:37:50,015 --> 00:37:52,775
Speaker 15: driveway to the main road, and then their broad is

676
00:37:52,855 --> 00:37:54,975
Speaker 15: quite flat. But then all around the hill's feather about

677
00:37:54,975 --> 00:37:56,775
Speaker 15: an one hundred meters up the hill, about kway from

678
00:37:56,815 --> 00:38:00,455
Speaker 15: the house is the water reservoir. Right now, he's been

679
00:38:00,495 --> 00:38:03,215
Speaker 15: told they need his failed his compliants for his pool.

680
00:38:03,615 --> 00:38:05,295
Speaker 15: He's got a water meter, but they said he needs

681
00:38:05,335 --> 00:38:07,575
Speaker 15: a backflow valve and there to stop the water going

682
00:38:07,615 --> 00:38:10,615
Speaker 15: back into the system. And he's a little the confused

683
00:38:10,655 --> 00:38:12,735
Speaker 15: because being on the bottom of the hell, how's the water

684
00:38:12,775 --> 00:38:15,015
Speaker 15: supposed to go back up the hill to the reservoir.

685
00:38:15,735 --> 00:38:18,575
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, so I don't think council are concerned about

686
00:38:18,575 --> 00:38:21,095
Speaker 5: the water going back up the councilor concerned about the

687
00:38:21,095 --> 00:38:24,655
Speaker 5: water going down and through the main system. So if

688
00:38:24,695 --> 00:38:29,455
Speaker 5: there's a requirement to have backflow prevention, which is essentially

689
00:38:29,455 --> 00:38:33,255
Speaker 5: a device that stops water inadvertently being siphoned out of

690
00:38:33,295 --> 00:38:36,575
Speaker 5: the pool and returned to the main system. Now that's

691
00:38:37,335 --> 00:38:40,095
Speaker 5: and the principle behind it is reasonably sound, and we

692
00:38:40,175 --> 00:38:43,935
Speaker 5: have them inside our houses. So, for example, a shower

693
00:38:44,215 --> 00:38:47,695
Speaker 5: on a detachable hose right that you can handheld one

694
00:38:48,375 --> 00:38:52,695
Speaker 5: has to have a backflow prevention device included in it

695
00:38:52,775 --> 00:38:56,735
Speaker 5: because let's say you inadvertently lifted in at the bottom

696
00:38:56,735 --> 00:38:58,895
Speaker 5: of the shower and it's sucked up water, it would

697
00:38:58,895 --> 00:39:02,575
Speaker 5: siphon foul water back into the council line, into the

698
00:39:02,615 --> 00:39:06,215
Speaker 5: main line. So all of these regulations are around protecting

699
00:39:06,375 --> 00:39:09,135
Speaker 5: public safety by ensuring we don't have that. So that's

700
00:39:09,135 --> 00:39:11,935
Speaker 5: a reasonable request from counsel to us for a backflow

701
00:39:12,055 --> 00:39:12,975
Speaker 5: prevention device.

702
00:39:14,015 --> 00:39:16,695
Speaker 15: Okay, I'll just excuse also been it's a bottom of

703
00:39:16,815 --> 00:39:19,895
Speaker 15: hell and matter the pressure and the pressure in the

704
00:39:19,935 --> 00:39:21,975
Speaker 15: water mains for how, I don't actually know how it

705
00:39:22,015 --> 00:39:23,055
Speaker 15: would go back up the hill.

706
00:39:23,535 --> 00:39:25,375
Speaker 5: It's not about it going back up because in the

707
00:39:25,575 --> 00:39:28,215
Speaker 5: end that there are people downhill as well, right, and

708
00:39:28,255 --> 00:39:29,055
Speaker 5: it's protecting those.

709
00:39:29,175 --> 00:39:30,815
Speaker 15: He's the only one of the bomb the hill, He's

710
00:39:30,815 --> 00:39:31,455
Speaker 15: the only one there.

711
00:39:31,615 --> 00:39:35,135
Speaker 5: It wouldn't look if it needs backflow prevention, it needs

712
00:39:35,175 --> 00:39:38,735
Speaker 5: backflow prevention. It's in the regulation. He just needs to

713
00:39:38,735 --> 00:39:41,015
Speaker 5: go and do it, Okay.

714
00:39:40,735 --> 00:39:42,895
Speaker 15: All right, it just doesn't make physical sense, that's all.

715
00:39:43,375 --> 00:39:46,415
Speaker 5: It doesn't matter. It does despite the fact he's at

716
00:39:46,415 --> 00:39:49,695
Speaker 5: the bottom of the hill. It's it's all about protecting

717
00:39:49,735 --> 00:39:51,695
Speaker 5: public safety and I think it's important and if it's

718
00:39:51,735 --> 00:39:53,655
Speaker 5: part of the regulations, then just get on.

719
00:39:53,655 --> 00:39:54,415
Speaker 3: And do it. You know.

720
00:39:55,135 --> 00:39:58,255
Speaker 5: I understand him asking the question. I do, but at

721
00:39:58,255 --> 00:40:01,295
Speaker 5: a certain point it's it's there for a reason. Just

722
00:40:01,375 --> 00:40:03,215
Speaker 5: do it and get them to do it, and get

723
00:40:03,255 --> 00:40:04,655
Speaker 5: him to get on with it and get the Council

724
00:40:04,695 --> 00:40:07,775
Speaker 5: off his back would be my approach. Good luck with

725
00:40:07,815 --> 00:40:09,335
Speaker 5: all of that, mate, Oh eight, one hundred and eighty

726
00:40:09,415 --> 00:40:12,535
Speaker 5: ten eighty ah, we might have time for one call

727
00:40:12,575 --> 00:40:14,855
Speaker 5: after the break. We might do that. Then we've got

728
00:40:14,855 --> 00:40:18,095
Speaker 5: the Minister Chris Pink joining us for an extended interview

729
00:40:18,615 --> 00:40:20,855
Speaker 5: between seven and eight though looking forward to that. We're

730
00:40:20,895 --> 00:40:23,815
Speaker 5: back straight after news, sport and weather. If you'd like

731
00:40:23,855 --> 00:40:26,215
Speaker 5: to join us, stay tuned because we've got the Minister

732
00:40:26,455 --> 00:40:30,335
Speaker 5: Chris Pink after the news your news talks. Here be

733
00:40:31,015 --> 00:40:33,495
Speaker 5: just a very quick call before we go to the

734
00:40:33,495 --> 00:40:38,255
Speaker 5: interview with Chris Pink. The Minister for Building and Construction.

735
00:40:39,015 --> 00:40:41,495
Speaker 5: We'll have that interview in just a moment. Marie, Good

736
00:40:41,495 --> 00:40:46,455
Speaker 5: morning to you. Hello Marie Elly, Yes, hey there, how

737
00:40:46,455 --> 00:40:46,855
Speaker 5: are you doing?

738
00:40:48,055 --> 00:40:48,335
Speaker 17: Good?

739
00:40:48,495 --> 00:40:48,775
Speaker 9: Good?

740
00:40:49,455 --> 00:40:52,935
Speaker 17: Just a quick question on a rural property in the

741
00:40:52,935 --> 00:40:57,335
Speaker 17: way kaddow. Yes, as the downpipe goes down and the

742
00:40:57,375 --> 00:41:00,295
Speaker 17: water just sits in a puddle at the bottom, it

743
00:41:00,295 --> 00:41:01,495
Speaker 17: doesn't go anywhere.

744
00:41:01,855 --> 00:41:02,135
Speaker 5: Yep.

745
00:41:03,135 --> 00:41:03,935
Speaker 17: Is that legal?

746
00:41:06,535 --> 00:41:09,815
Speaker 5: I think it's probably not, because it's a house and

747
00:41:09,855 --> 00:41:12,615
Speaker 5: you need to contain the water. But then you also go, well,

748
00:41:12,615 --> 00:41:16,135
Speaker 5: hang on, who's that going to impact right only you.

749
00:41:16,855 --> 00:41:19,375
Speaker 5: What it's going to do is make the ground damper

750
00:41:20,535 --> 00:41:24,575
Speaker 5: and more saturated. It's a waste of resource if your

751
00:41:24,655 --> 00:41:28,255
Speaker 5: rural chances are you want to capture that. So it's

752
00:41:28,255 --> 00:41:30,615
Speaker 5: not great for the house. But in terms of its

753
00:41:30,655 --> 00:41:33,895
Speaker 5: impact on other people, if you don't have a close neighbor,

754
00:41:34,015 --> 00:41:36,295
Speaker 5: then it probably makes no difference at all to them,

755
00:41:36,335 --> 00:41:39,455
Speaker 5: in which case it's kind of nobody's business. But I

756
00:41:39,495 --> 00:41:42,295
Speaker 5: would still encourage you to collect that rain water, either

757
00:41:42,295 --> 00:41:47,095
Speaker 5: with a water tank because that's sensible resilient, or to

758
00:41:47,175 --> 00:41:49,935
Speaker 5: stop all of that water sitting around your house. I

759
00:41:49,935 --> 00:41:52,415
Speaker 5: would direct it away from the house as far as

760
00:41:52,455 --> 00:41:55,535
Speaker 5: possible without too close to the neighbor. Being too close

761
00:41:55,535 --> 00:41:58,535
Speaker 5: to the neighbor, yeah.

762
00:41:58,415 --> 00:42:01,055
Speaker 17: Now just a little puddle formed.

763
00:42:02,255 --> 00:42:03,015
Speaker 5: Which is not great.

764
00:42:03,095 --> 00:42:03,255
Speaker 15: Right.

765
00:42:03,295 --> 00:42:06,535
Speaker 5: We don't actually want standing water around our houses because

766
00:42:06,535 --> 00:42:09,135
Speaker 5: if it's outside you, away from the house, chances are

767
00:42:09,135 --> 00:42:12,015
Speaker 5: it's also going to saturate the ground underneath the house,

768
00:42:12,135 --> 00:42:14,255
Speaker 5: and that's not great in terms of trying to keep

769
00:42:14,295 --> 00:42:18,415
Speaker 5: our houses warm, dry and comfortable. But more importantly, I

770
00:42:18,415 --> 00:42:20,615
Speaker 5: think if you're rural and your depend are you on

771
00:42:21,055 --> 00:42:28,935
Speaker 5: main supply mains supply for water? No, okay, then you

772
00:42:28,975 --> 00:42:30,935
Speaker 5: know at some stage you're probably going to run out

773
00:42:30,975 --> 00:42:33,135
Speaker 5: of water, And if you've wasted it by dumping it

774
00:42:33,175 --> 00:42:35,655
Speaker 5: on the ground for all that time, go and grab

775
00:42:35,695 --> 00:42:39,855
Speaker 5: yourself a water tank and capture it would seem sensible

776
00:42:39,855 --> 00:42:45,015
Speaker 5: to me. Nice of you to call Marie all the

777
00:42:45,135 --> 00:42:48,375
Speaker 5: very best. I'm very tempted to read out this text.

778
00:42:48,455 --> 00:42:49,815
Speaker 5: I might save it for a bit longer. I don't

779
00:42:49,855 --> 00:42:52,495
Speaker 5: want to bring the tone of the conversation down right now, right.

780
00:42:52,575 --> 00:42:55,615
Speaker 5: It was my great pleasure last week to have an

781
00:42:55,615 --> 00:42:59,415
Speaker 5: opportunity to spend almost an hour with the new Minister

782
00:42:59,655 --> 00:43:03,375
Speaker 5: for Building and Construction, Chris Penk. He came into the

783
00:43:03,375 --> 00:43:06,135
Speaker 5: studio and I said to him, this is an opportunity

784
00:43:06,615 --> 00:43:08,175
Speaker 5: to kind of stretch our legs.

785
00:43:08,255 --> 00:43:08,455
Speaker 7: Right.

786
00:43:08,535 --> 00:43:10,535
Speaker 5: So most of the time when we do interviews, it's

787
00:43:10,575 --> 00:43:12,535
Speaker 5: all about quite quite quick. You know, we've going to

788
00:43:12,615 --> 00:43:16,615
Speaker 5: race through this. This wasn't so this is a conversation

789
00:43:16,695 --> 00:43:19,495
Speaker 5: that I recorded last week with the minister. We'll play

790
00:43:19,495 --> 00:43:23,375
Speaker 5: this straight after the break. Chris, Welcome to the studio

791
00:43:23,535 --> 00:43:25,935
Speaker 5: and thanks for taking the time to actually come in.

792
00:43:26,735 --> 00:43:29,495
Speaker 5: I really really appreciate it. Tell us a little bit

793
00:43:29,615 --> 00:43:32,015
Speaker 5: about I'm intrigued by this. So you spent some time

794
00:43:32,055 --> 00:43:36,295
Speaker 5: in the navy, including the Australian Navy on submarines obviously,

795
00:43:36,335 --> 00:43:39,775
Speaker 5: then there was a law career, entry into Parliament twenty seventeen.

796
00:43:40,335 --> 00:43:43,055
Speaker 5: Now you've got a number of portfolios. I saw you

797
00:43:43,255 --> 00:43:47,495
Speaker 5: at the Dutch Memorial as representing as Minister for Veterans Affairs.

798
00:43:48,175 --> 00:43:51,455
Speaker 5: You're also obviously Minister for Building and Construction. I kind

799
00:43:51,455 --> 00:43:53,295
Speaker 5: of feel like, how did you end up with that job?

800
00:43:53,855 --> 00:43:54,095
Speaker 17: Yeah?

801
00:43:54,335 --> 00:43:56,455
Speaker 4: I feel very fortunate for a start, and by the way,

802
00:43:56,455 --> 00:43:57,895
Speaker 4: great to have a chat with you here. I thank

803
00:43:57,935 --> 00:44:00,335
Speaker 4: you considerable audience, who I know hang on every word

804
00:44:00,455 --> 00:44:02,375
Speaker 4: that you say in relation to these matters. Look, it's

805
00:44:02,375 --> 00:44:05,455
Speaker 4: obviously a hugely important subject for the country. So from

806
00:44:05,455 --> 00:44:07,335
Speaker 4: my point of view, to to be fortunate enough to

807
00:44:07,375 --> 00:44:10,295
Speaker 4: be the minister as a great privilege. The short answer

808
00:44:10,335 --> 00:44:13,455
Speaker 4: is because the incoming Prime Minister asked me if I'd

809
00:44:13,495 --> 00:44:14,895
Speaker 4: like to do it, And there's only one answer to

810
00:44:14,895 --> 00:44:17,295
Speaker 4: that question. But right, you know, I'm really delighted to

811
00:44:17,295 --> 00:44:19,055
Speaker 4: have that. In terms of background, you know, I'm not

812
00:44:19,095 --> 00:44:21,295
Speaker 4: a technical guy. I don't pretend to be any better

813
00:44:21,335 --> 00:44:24,495
Speaker 4: than the average diy hack of a weekend. But having

814
00:44:24,495 --> 00:44:26,095
Speaker 4: said there a little bit of background in the law,

815
00:44:26,095 --> 00:44:29,015
Speaker 4: and particularly in relation to property law, and so having

816
00:44:29,055 --> 00:44:30,895
Speaker 4: experienced some of these issues in terms of how the

817
00:44:30,975 --> 00:44:34,015
Speaker 4: legislation the regulations are put together, including the costs and

818
00:44:34,375 --> 00:44:38,095
Speaker 4: certainty and all those difficulties and that clients used to

819
00:44:38,135 --> 00:44:39,695
Speaker 4: face in terms of you know, what it meant for

820
00:44:39,735 --> 00:44:42,175
Speaker 4: them not to have laws that enabled them to do

821
00:44:42,295 --> 00:44:44,455
Speaker 4: things quickly and easily and therefore more affordably.

822
00:44:44,855 --> 00:44:48,135
Speaker 5: So in your practice law practice that was very much

823
00:44:48,175 --> 00:44:49,095
Speaker 5: focused on property.

824
00:44:49,455 --> 00:44:51,175
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was actually and in a little bit of

825
00:44:51,175 --> 00:44:53,095
Speaker 4: accident of history in terms if that was work that

826
00:44:53,175 --> 00:44:56,015
Speaker 4: was available at that time, and certainly I enjoyed it

827
00:44:56,135 --> 00:44:58,495
Speaker 4: and I wasn't to know, of course, that all these

828
00:44:58,535 --> 00:45:01,015
Speaker 4: years later i'd have the opportunity within a political environment

829
00:45:01,055 --> 00:45:03,015
Speaker 4: to help, you know, maybe make the laws and shave

830
00:45:03,095 --> 00:45:04,935
Speaker 4: them a little bit. So, as I say, really pleased,

831
00:45:04,975 --> 00:45:07,015
Speaker 4: it's a little bit of a natural progression. But also

832
00:45:07,175 --> 00:45:08,775
Speaker 4: I'm humble enough to say that there's a lot that

833
00:45:08,895 --> 00:45:11,455
Speaker 4: I know that I don't know, and every willing and

834
00:45:11,655 --> 00:45:13,615
Speaker 4: keen in fact to ask questions of the people who

835
00:45:13,655 --> 00:45:14,455
Speaker 4: out there doing the work.

836
00:45:14,735 --> 00:45:17,615
Speaker 5: And to be fair, one of the things that I

837
00:45:17,695 --> 00:45:19,615
Speaker 5: have noticed is that I've seen you at a number

838
00:45:19,615 --> 00:45:22,535
Speaker 5: of conferences. I also know that you've spent a fair

839
00:45:22,575 --> 00:45:25,575
Speaker 5: amount of time with different industry groups and seem to

840
00:45:25,775 --> 00:45:27,615
Speaker 5: be willing to listen, which is great.

841
00:45:28,095 --> 00:45:30,495
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think any government minister would be

842
00:45:30,535 --> 00:45:34,375
Speaker 4: foolish not to frankly to be recognizing, you know, particularly

843
00:45:34,415 --> 00:45:36,615
Speaker 4: in building construction, that the people who are by their

844
00:45:36,695 --> 00:45:40,895
Speaker 4: nature very resourceful you used to come out with solutions

845
00:45:40,975 --> 00:45:43,295
Speaker 4: literally constructive in their approach, and I think if you

846
00:45:43,335 --> 00:45:45,175
Speaker 4: know you're smart as a policy maker, you get as

847
00:45:45,215 --> 00:45:47,175
Speaker 4: close to those people as possible because they will tell

848
00:45:47,175 --> 00:45:49,375
Speaker 4: you what's happening on the ground, sure where the barriers are,

849
00:45:49,575 --> 00:45:52,135
Speaker 4: and look it's not that we can provide the answers

850
00:45:52,255 --> 00:45:54,055
Speaker 4: that will please everyone all the time, of course not,

851
00:45:54,095 --> 00:45:56,695
Speaker 4: because even industry itself has a range of different views.

852
00:45:57,135 --> 00:45:59,255
Speaker 4: We might get into that in the discussion will certainly

853
00:45:59,775 --> 00:46:02,855
Speaker 4: by missing you know, if you weren't engaged closely, you'd

854
00:46:02,855 --> 00:46:03,895
Speaker 4: be missing as opportunities.

855
00:46:04,015 --> 00:46:08,135
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay. The other thing that I really appreciate is

856
00:46:08,135 --> 00:46:10,535
Speaker 5: the fact that we can take some time because I

857
00:46:10,655 --> 00:46:13,815
Speaker 5: think that one of the challenges with discussing building and

858
00:46:14,535 --> 00:46:17,895
Speaker 5: construction issues is that we're looking for simple answers, and

859
00:46:18,055 --> 00:46:21,055
Speaker 5: to be fair, they're not there right. So anything that

860
00:46:21,135 --> 00:46:23,815
Speaker 5: you can summarize in a pithy headline is probably not

861
00:46:24,015 --> 00:46:27,455
Speaker 5: worth really discussing. So there's lots and lots of detail.

862
00:46:28,575 --> 00:46:30,535
Speaker 5: In preparing for this, I did a quick sort of

863
00:46:30,575 --> 00:46:34,775
Speaker 5: Google search and went basically Chris Minister and building changes,

864
00:46:34,815 --> 00:46:37,135
Speaker 5: and one of the things that popped up is something

865
00:46:37,215 --> 00:46:39,415
Speaker 5: that in fact I was talking with a builder today

866
00:46:39,535 --> 00:46:43,575
Speaker 5: about exactly this, clarifying the definition of a minor variation

867
00:46:43,775 --> 00:46:46,815
Speaker 5: and introducing this idea of minor customizations.

868
00:46:47,055 --> 00:46:48,855
Speaker 3: You just walk me through that. Yeah, So the.

869
00:46:48,895 --> 00:46:51,615
Speaker 4: Idea is really trying to get the best we can

870
00:46:51,775 --> 00:46:55,255
Speaker 4: out of the consent system as it currently exists, because

871
00:46:55,295 --> 00:46:58,175
Speaker 4: of course, the big picture is that it's a difficult,

872
00:46:58,375 --> 00:47:01,575
Speaker 4: expense of time consuming and uncertain to build in this country.

873
00:47:01,575 --> 00:47:04,375
Speaker 4: And part of that is around the processes with consents

874
00:47:04,815 --> 00:47:07,095
Speaker 4: of obviously need a building content in the first place,

875
00:47:07,335 --> 00:47:08,975
Speaker 4: and inspections as I think that we might get to

876
00:47:09,015 --> 00:47:11,735
Speaker 4: talk to certainly when there are changes along the way,

877
00:47:12,215 --> 00:47:15,055
Speaker 4: be it in relation to products, maybe a better or

878
00:47:15,055 --> 00:47:17,575
Speaker 4: a different products being found. Maybe you want the product

879
00:47:17,615 --> 00:47:20,135
Speaker 4: that's available now, you know, a little reference and footnote

880
00:47:20,215 --> 00:47:23,255
Speaker 4: to the plaster board shortagees COT of years ago, for example.

881
00:47:23,375 --> 00:47:25,055
Speaker 4: But even in a business as usual kind of way,

882
00:47:25,095 --> 00:47:27,575
Speaker 4: we want that flexibility because we reduce the delay, we

883
00:47:27,855 --> 00:47:31,295
Speaker 4: improve choice and competition and therefore affordability. And part of

884
00:47:31,335 --> 00:47:34,455
Speaker 4: the issue, it seems to me, is that when a

885
00:47:34,575 --> 00:47:37,975
Speaker 4: relatively small change needs to be happen, happen along the

886
00:47:38,015 --> 00:47:41,295
Speaker 4: way in terms of those products substitutions, you want that

887
00:47:41,415 --> 00:47:44,135
Speaker 4: mine of variation mechanism which does already exist to be

888
00:47:44,215 --> 00:47:47,175
Speaker 4: clear as q to predecessors of mine who worked with

889
00:47:47,655 --> 00:47:50,695
Speaker 4: mb in others to institute that. But it seems there's

890
00:47:50,735 --> 00:47:52,695
Speaker 4: not enough clarity of that for it to be used

891
00:47:52,735 --> 00:47:54,855
Speaker 4: as often as we want, and certainly in the case

892
00:47:54,895 --> 00:47:57,735
Speaker 4: of multiproofs, which you know, by their nature are a

893
00:47:57,815 --> 00:48:00,375
Speaker 4: consent that can be used many times over for the

894
00:48:00,455 --> 00:48:03,295
Speaker 4: same design, but you know a number of different times

895
00:48:03,695 --> 00:48:06,055
Speaker 4: in maybe slightly different ways. We want to unlock the

896
00:48:06,415 --> 00:48:08,535
Speaker 4: the potential of that and to be able to say, well,

897
00:48:08,575 --> 00:48:11,295
Speaker 4: you can do something that's relatively small. You know, it

898
00:48:11,375 --> 00:48:14,335
Speaker 4: might be substituting a product, as I've said, but also

899
00:48:14,415 --> 00:48:16,695
Speaker 4: maybe in terms of design, if you're swapping a window

900
00:48:16,735 --> 00:48:19,055
Speaker 4: for a door in a way that doesn't compromise the

901
00:48:19,335 --> 00:48:23,015
Speaker 4: structural integrity, or maybe even you know, the design is

902
00:48:23,055 --> 00:48:25,975
Speaker 4: the same but a mirror image, or might want to

903
00:48:26,015 --> 00:48:29,095
Speaker 4: be north facing, you know, to suit the particular location.

904
00:48:29,335 --> 00:48:31,495
Speaker 4: You know, we want to unlock all those opportunities without

905
00:48:31,575 --> 00:48:34,415
Speaker 4: having a burdens and process that is tough for you know,

906
00:48:34,495 --> 00:48:37,975
Speaker 4: the builder himself with herself in the consumer, but also

907
00:48:38,015 --> 00:48:40,295
Speaker 4: of course from a BC a point of view, the councils,

908
00:48:40,335 --> 00:48:42,015
Speaker 4: the building con sem authorities. You know, if we can

909
00:48:42,095 --> 00:48:44,855
Speaker 4: take a bit of workload off them and relatively mundane,

910
00:48:44,895 --> 00:48:46,975
Speaker 4: small scale, low risk stuff, then of course they've got

911
00:48:47,055 --> 00:48:49,135
Speaker 4: more resource to focus on that which they should genuinely

912
00:48:49,175 --> 00:48:50,455
Speaker 4: be engaged at okay.

913
00:48:50,815 --> 00:48:53,935
Speaker 5: One of your other comments is that, look, currently it

914
00:48:54,055 --> 00:48:57,175
Speaker 5: can take six hundred days to go from consent to

915
00:48:57,455 --> 00:49:02,335
Speaker 5: code compliance certificate. That's too long. It adds costs. Broadly speaking,

916
00:49:02,535 --> 00:49:03,855
Speaker 5: what do you think can be done about that?

917
00:49:04,415 --> 00:49:06,895
Speaker 4: Well, I think there are a few different opportunities. One

918
00:49:06,975 --> 00:49:08,935
Speaker 4: of them I just mentioned in Passing a minute ago,

919
00:49:09,015 --> 00:49:12,415
Speaker 4: which was in relation to inspections anecdotally at least, and

920
00:49:12,455 --> 00:49:14,495
Speaker 4: we're also trying to get the data to back this up.

921
00:49:14,615 --> 00:49:19,015
Speaker 4: But oftentimes an inspection is ready to be to take

922
00:49:19,055 --> 00:49:20,695
Speaker 4: place from the point of view of the person doing

923
00:49:20,735 --> 00:49:24,215
Speaker 4: the work, and they simply have delays in terms of

924
00:49:24,415 --> 00:49:26,615
Speaker 4: the inspection being able to take place because that's the

925
00:49:26,615 --> 00:49:30,935
Speaker 4: availability of the council officers in particularly. You know when

926
00:49:30,935 --> 00:49:32,815
Speaker 4: you're adding delays, because then the next part of the

927
00:49:32,855 --> 00:49:36,375
Speaker 4: work can't proceed until such time as the inspection takes place.

928
00:49:36,415 --> 00:49:38,415
Speaker 4: In passes, then you go, well, if you had a

929
00:49:38,535 --> 00:49:43,495
Speaker 4: more streamline version of the remote visual inspecting divisibility that

930
00:49:43,815 --> 00:49:46,615
Speaker 4: some bcas are already using, of course, then you can say, well,

931
00:49:46,655 --> 00:49:48,375
Speaker 4: you know, if you dial in provided this bit of

932
00:49:48,415 --> 00:49:50,695
Speaker 4: internet coverage at both ends, you can actually get a

933
00:49:50,815 --> 00:49:53,895
Speaker 4: really quick update. Yes, everything's okay, fine to proceed and

934
00:49:53,975 --> 00:49:55,975
Speaker 4: go ahead. So that's one little piece of the puzzle.

935
00:49:56,055 --> 00:49:59,095
Speaker 4: But more generally, the picture is to have processes that

936
00:49:59,695 --> 00:50:02,895
Speaker 4: allocate risk appropriately so that we don't have these undue delays,

937
00:50:02,975 --> 00:50:06,215
Speaker 4: which of course add costs, particularly in the highest interest

938
00:50:06,415 --> 00:50:08,215
Speaker 4: environments such as we've had the last year.

939
00:50:08,175 --> 00:50:11,175
Speaker 5: Or Sure, just on the remote inspections. From what I've read,

940
00:50:11,295 --> 00:50:15,015
Speaker 5: it seems to be that you are instructing bcas to

941
00:50:15,775 --> 00:50:20,455
Speaker 5: take remote inspections as the standard method rather than the exceptions. Now,

942
00:50:20,535 --> 00:50:23,775
Speaker 5: over the years, I've done remote inspections, but it's tended

943
00:50:23,815 --> 00:50:25,775
Speaker 5: to be a rarity. So do you want to swap

944
00:50:25,855 --> 00:50:26,295
Speaker 5: that around?

945
00:50:26,575 --> 00:50:27,375
Speaker 4: Yeah, very much.

946
00:50:27,935 --> 00:50:29,735
Speaker 3: That very much a swapping around.

947
00:50:29,815 --> 00:50:31,615
Speaker 4: And the word we've used as default, and we don't

948
00:50:31,655 --> 00:50:35,495
Speaker 4: know exactly what that means, and that's why we're consulting Sure,

949
00:50:35,535 --> 00:50:37,415
Speaker 4: you know, to make sure we get that detail right

950
00:50:37,615 --> 00:50:39,935
Speaker 4: and to recognize that in most cases we think it

951
00:50:39,935 --> 00:50:42,295
Speaker 4: will be suitable, but not all. So the question of

952
00:50:42,335 --> 00:50:44,455
Speaker 4: what default means, you know, what are the times that

953
00:50:44,535 --> 00:50:46,375
Speaker 4: we want to carve that out? In the three main

954
00:50:46,415 --> 00:50:48,775
Speaker 4: areas that occur to me is one, if you've got

955
00:50:48,815 --> 00:50:51,055
Speaker 4: a builder who's less experienced or you know, frankly, in

956
00:50:51,095 --> 00:50:53,695
Speaker 4: a couple of cases, SAD is trustworthy, so that that

957
00:50:53,775 --> 00:50:55,855
Speaker 4: might be a situation we might insist on on having

958
00:50:56,415 --> 00:50:58,375
Speaker 4: in person inspections, or if I have to flip that

959
00:50:58,415 --> 00:51:00,735
Speaker 4: around more positively, for those who are able to be trusted,

960
00:51:00,855 --> 00:51:03,855
Speaker 4: you know, the credible, respectable and so on, and I've

961
00:51:03,895 --> 00:51:05,895
Speaker 4: got a good track record, maybe you can take a

962
00:51:05,895 --> 00:51:08,295
Speaker 4: bit more liberty, so to speak, in terms of that.

963
00:51:08,535 --> 00:51:09,055
Speaker 3: So that's one.

964
00:51:09,135 --> 00:51:11,175
Speaker 4: And it might be that there's particular types of building

965
00:51:11,295 --> 00:51:13,975
Speaker 4: or stages in a building in which it's desirable to

966
00:51:14,055 --> 00:51:16,655
Speaker 4: have someone physically turn up in person and do the

967
00:51:16,735 --> 00:51:21,175
Speaker 4: moisture testing or whatever, or you know, poke around in

968
00:51:21,295 --> 00:51:26,135
Speaker 4: a way that isn't so easy in terms of you know,

969
00:51:26,255 --> 00:51:29,015
Speaker 4: that remote visual way. And then the final category, I suppose,

970
00:51:29,055 --> 00:51:31,015
Speaker 4: at the risk of standing obvious, is when the technology

971
00:51:31,055 --> 00:51:34,775
Speaker 4: isn't available builder himself or herself is not comfortable, you know,

972
00:51:34,895 --> 00:51:38,575
Speaker 4: for teaching old dogs nutrients, and that's tough in I

973
00:51:38,615 --> 00:51:40,535
Speaker 4: suppose in that same category as where there might be

974
00:51:40,775 --> 00:51:42,495
Speaker 4: limitations around internet coverage and so on.

975
00:51:42,775 --> 00:51:46,775
Speaker 5: Right, one of the relatively early announcements from you and

976
00:51:46,855 --> 00:51:49,455
Speaker 5: from your office was to say we want to allow

977
00:51:49,615 --> 00:51:53,175
Speaker 5: for the importation of building products that come from similar

978
00:51:53,255 --> 00:51:56,495
Speaker 5: jurisdictions to ourselves, and they can come in and be

979
00:51:56,735 --> 00:51:59,975
Speaker 5: used in restricted building work as long as you can

980
00:52:00,055 --> 00:52:01,975
Speaker 5: prove that they come from a you know, have a

981
00:52:02,055 --> 00:52:05,215
Speaker 5: testing regime that's similar to ours. So rather than I've

982
00:52:05,335 --> 00:52:07,255
Speaker 5: said this on radio and of times, you know, I know,

983
00:52:08,535 --> 00:52:13,175
Speaker 5: you know European manufacturer that makes silicon that brings it

984
00:52:13,255 --> 00:52:15,135
Speaker 5: into New Zealand, then it has to go to brands

985
00:52:15,255 --> 00:52:17,775
Speaker 5: or to code mark for testing and they've got fifty

986
00:52:17,855 --> 00:52:19,855
Speaker 5: years of development. So is that the sort of thing

987
00:52:19,895 --> 00:52:22,935
Speaker 5: that you're looking at saying, look, you know a factory

988
00:52:22,975 --> 00:52:25,615
Speaker 5: in Belgium that's been manufacturing this for fifty years, they

989
00:52:25,655 --> 00:52:27,735
Speaker 5: probably know what they're doing. They should be able to

990
00:52:27,735 --> 00:52:29,095
Speaker 5: you should be able to use that product here.

991
00:52:29,255 --> 00:52:30,535
Speaker 3: That's exactly what we're looking to do.

992
00:52:30,655 --> 00:52:33,375
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I mean Belgium, I mean, I don't know,

993
00:52:33,895 --> 00:52:35,495
Speaker 4: and not to prejudge it, but let's just say for

994
00:52:35,575 --> 00:52:37,615
Speaker 4: arguments sake, we regard them as having a high standard

995
00:52:37,655 --> 00:52:41,335
Speaker 4: of building. Their particular standards in relation to you know,

996
00:52:41,415 --> 00:52:45,935
Speaker 4: whether it's waterproof, nature or strength or integrity are at

997
00:52:46,215 --> 00:52:48,895
Speaker 4: as higher standard or higher than those in New Zealand.

998
00:52:48,935 --> 00:52:50,495
Speaker 4: Then we say, well, there's no reason we shouldn't rely

999
00:52:50,615 --> 00:52:53,535
Speaker 4: on those. So there's two elements. One is credible and

1000
00:52:53,655 --> 00:52:55,295
Speaker 4: that's what we've referred to in this case, and the

1001
00:52:55,375 --> 00:52:58,055
Speaker 4: other one is comfortable. So is it also the case

1002
00:52:58,135 --> 00:53:01,095
Speaker 4: that the jurisdiction, you know, the physical geography means that

1003
00:53:01,215 --> 00:53:03,815
Speaker 4: we can compare like for like, do they have seismic

1004
00:53:03,895 --> 00:53:05,975
Speaker 4: risk if we're talking about products that relate to structural

1005
00:53:05,975 --> 00:53:08,735
Speaker 4: and are they coastal in the same way that New

1006
00:53:08,815 --> 00:53:13,935
Speaker 4: Zealanders if we're relating to moisture in a way or

1007
00:53:14,615 --> 00:53:17,495
Speaker 4: high wind zones, neither see and so on. So it

1008
00:53:17,535 --> 00:53:20,855
Speaker 4: won't be uv absolutely good, good, good example. So that's

1009
00:53:20,855 --> 00:53:22,535
Speaker 4: the work that's going on at the moment. And if

1010
00:53:22,575 --> 00:53:25,375
Speaker 4: I had a dollar for every time that the devil

1011
00:53:25,415 --> 00:53:27,495
Speaker 4: in the detail was used in relation to that, then

1012
00:53:27,575 --> 00:53:29,055
Speaker 4: and we wouldn't need the building livery at all. But

1013
00:53:29,935 --> 00:53:31,615
Speaker 4: you know, that's that's the kind of work that we

1014
00:53:31,695 --> 00:53:33,295
Speaker 4: need to do at that detailed level to unlock you.

1015
00:53:33,295 --> 00:53:34,375
Speaker 3: Know, a whole heap of opportunity.

1016
00:53:34,855 --> 00:53:37,015
Speaker 5: So is that you can do that right now or

1017
00:53:37,135 --> 00:53:40,255
Speaker 5: is this legislation in place but not hasn't become law yet.

1018
00:53:40,495 --> 00:53:41,815
Speaker 3: Well, the legislation exists.

1019
00:53:41,895 --> 00:53:44,655
Speaker 4: So this this very week we have the opportunity, and

1020
00:53:44,735 --> 00:53:46,575
Speaker 4: in fact it will be in the coming few weeks

1021
00:53:46,615 --> 00:53:48,455
Speaker 4: that will have its first reading in Parliament, so the

1022
00:53:48,535 --> 00:53:50,455
Speaker 4: public will have a chance to have their say on that.

1023
00:53:50,615 --> 00:53:53,055
Speaker 4: And the idea of that legislation once it passes through

1024
00:53:53,095 --> 00:53:55,535
Speaker 4: the parliament early or mid next year is to say,

1025
00:53:55,655 --> 00:53:57,495
Speaker 4: now we've got a structure that says we can add

1026
00:53:57,615 --> 00:54:01,295
Speaker 4: in for example, Belgium or wherever we can take our time.

1027
00:54:01,495 --> 00:54:04,015
Speaker 4: Let's get the easy, low risk stuff across the line first.

1028
00:54:04,615 --> 00:54:06,735
Speaker 4: Let's get best bang for buck. You know, in some

1029
00:54:07,255 --> 00:54:09,895
Speaker 4: products will naturally be more able to be important. Just

1030
00:54:10,255 --> 00:54:13,575
Speaker 4: the shaer size and scale and geography in relation to

1031
00:54:13,615 --> 00:54:18,175
Speaker 4: supply chain issues will naturally lend the system to be

1032
00:54:18,535 --> 00:54:20,575
Speaker 4: really helpful in some cases, less helpful in others. But

1033
00:54:20,815 --> 00:54:22,655
Speaker 4: you know, we've got to do everything we can to

1034
00:54:22,935 --> 00:54:24,695
Speaker 4: try and get things moving in a way as I say,

1035
00:54:24,735 --> 00:54:29,015
Speaker 4: that doesn't compromise your safety, quality and sustainability.

1036
00:54:28,375 --> 00:54:30,855
Speaker 5: Right because you know we do. We don't have a

1037
00:54:30,935 --> 00:54:34,055
Speaker 5: great record with innovation. Sometimes in New Zealand, as soon

1038
00:54:34,095 --> 00:54:35,855
Speaker 5: as you start talking about it, people will talk about

1039
00:54:35,855 --> 00:54:37,975
Speaker 5: the leaky building crisis. And I'm sure that people are

1040
00:54:37,975 --> 00:54:39,935
Speaker 5: saying to you, hey, we don't want to go down

1041
00:54:39,975 --> 00:54:40,575
Speaker 5: that track again.

1042
00:54:40,815 --> 00:54:44,575
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent, and that's a very fair consideration.

1043
00:54:45,335 --> 00:54:49,015
Speaker 4: And of course without playing that off and saying for

1044
00:54:49,055 --> 00:54:51,975
Speaker 4: a second that we want to reduce quality or for

1045
00:54:52,055 --> 00:54:55,055
Speaker 4: that matter, sustainability or safety. We do also have an

1046
00:54:55,055 --> 00:54:57,575
Speaker 4: issue with building affordability in this country, so we don't

1047
00:54:57,615 --> 00:54:59,575
Speaker 4: have the luxury of saying everything's fine as it is,

1048
00:55:00,055 --> 00:55:03,615
Speaker 4: with construction costs having increase forty one percent since twenty nineteen,

1049
00:55:03,655 --> 00:55:05,855
Speaker 4: for example, and a whole range of other stats that

1050
00:55:05,895 --> 00:55:08,015
Speaker 4: we could reduce, the fact of the.

1051
00:55:08,015 --> 00:55:09,735
Speaker 3: Matter is we do need to do something different.

1052
00:55:09,815 --> 00:55:11,895
Speaker 4: But the good news is I think we can actually

1053
00:55:11,975 --> 00:55:14,895
Speaker 4: make some real productivity gains by opening up for competition

1054
00:55:15,375 --> 00:55:17,535
Speaker 4: rather than by lowering the standards that exist here in

1055
00:55:17,575 --> 00:55:18,055
Speaker 4: New Zealand.

1056
00:55:18,695 --> 00:55:21,855
Speaker 5: In terms of protecting the consumer, is the introduction of

1057
00:55:21,935 --> 00:55:25,695
Speaker 5: the building Product Information requirements part of that process, so

1058
00:55:25,815 --> 00:55:27,615
Speaker 5: that as a consumer I should be able to find

1059
00:55:27,655 --> 00:55:30,095
Speaker 5: out exactly what this is and what it's supposed to

1060
00:55:30,135 --> 00:55:31,295
Speaker 5: do easily.

1061
00:55:31,895 --> 00:55:34,895
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's very much the philosophy of that change.

1062
00:55:34,935 --> 00:55:36,855
Speaker 4: And to give credit where it's due, that came in

1063
00:55:36,975 --> 00:55:40,655
Speaker 4: prior to the current government and it's a good system

1064
00:55:40,695 --> 00:55:43,495
Speaker 4: we think overall, albeit with some nuance that we need

1065
00:55:43,575 --> 00:55:48,415
Speaker 4: to explore around the provenance of the materials. What I

1066
00:55:48,495 --> 00:55:49,815
Speaker 4: mean by that is what we don't want to do

1067
00:55:49,895 --> 00:55:53,615
Speaker 4: is have the unintended consequence whereby if a person we

1068
00:55:53,815 --> 00:55:57,695
Speaker 4: know an entity spends their time, the energy, their money

1069
00:55:57,935 --> 00:55:59,855
Speaker 4: investing and doing that due diligence to find a good

1070
00:55:59,855 --> 00:56:02,815
Speaker 4: product from overseas bring it to the market here, and

1071
00:56:02,975 --> 00:56:06,495
Speaker 4: if we require them to disclose that beyond obviously the

1072
00:56:06,615 --> 00:56:09,175
Speaker 4: characteristics of that product in the way that the consumer

1073
00:56:09,215 --> 00:56:11,255
Speaker 4: would want, then actually all you're doing is losing them

1074
00:56:11,295 --> 00:56:14,215
Speaker 4: their competitive advantage of the commercial sense, and of course

1075
00:56:14,495 --> 00:56:16,295
Speaker 4: the problem with that is then not going to be

1076
00:56:16,335 --> 00:56:18,535
Speaker 4: incentivised to do that. So we're looking at that aspect,

1077
00:56:19,055 --> 00:56:21,415
Speaker 4: and that was an issue that the National Paty and

1078
00:56:21,455 --> 00:56:25,775
Speaker 4: Opposition identified. But we think overall, in the interest of

1079
00:56:26,455 --> 00:56:30,775
Speaker 4: informed consent, a consumer choice, it's a good thing overall,

1080
00:56:30,895 --> 00:56:33,055
Speaker 4: and we certainly think that will align quite nicely with

1081
00:56:33,135 --> 00:56:37,415
Speaker 4: those opening up of competition and availability of the overseas

1082
00:56:37,415 --> 00:56:38,815
Speaker 4: products too cool.

1083
00:56:40,895 --> 00:56:42,575
Speaker 5: This is probably the biggest topic that I wanted to

1084
00:56:42,655 --> 00:56:47,455
Speaker 5: discuss with you. You have said, hey, I want MBI

1085
00:56:47,855 --> 00:56:51,175
Speaker 5: to go and urgently investigate the cost of the changes

1086
00:56:51,215 --> 00:56:54,495
Speaker 5: to H one of the Building Code, saying houses are

1087
00:56:54,535 --> 00:56:58,255
Speaker 5: costing up to fifty thousand dollars extra the quotas builders

1088
00:56:58,295 --> 00:57:01,055
Speaker 5: frequently raise concerns with me over the new requirements within

1089
00:57:01,135 --> 00:57:03,855
Speaker 5: Clause H one of the Building Code that they're adding

1090
00:57:03,935 --> 00:57:06,055
Speaker 5: tens of thousands of dollars onto the cost of a house.

1091
00:57:06,295 --> 00:57:09,655
Speaker 5: Also frequent reports of moisture and overheating, which are leading

1092
00:57:09,695 --> 00:57:14,335
Speaker 5: to increased energy uses, making these requirements counterproductive. Can we

1093
00:57:14,735 --> 00:57:17,575
Speaker 5: take a deep dive into this? First up, what's the

1094
00:57:17,695 --> 00:57:20,055
Speaker 5: thinking behind rolling back each one?

1095
00:57:20,575 --> 00:57:23,135
Speaker 4: Well, if you think about the purpose of what we're

1096
00:57:23,175 --> 00:57:28,575
Speaker 4: trying to do, it's to maintain quality, sustainability and health

1097
00:57:28,615 --> 00:57:29,775
Speaker 4: outcomes and so on.

1098
00:57:29,895 --> 00:57:31,735
Speaker 3: But also we need to have more affordable building.

1099
00:57:31,855 --> 00:57:34,055
Speaker 4: So it's a problem for me if I say that

1100
00:57:34,095 --> 00:57:37,055
Speaker 4: we need affordable building, but I hear reports for those

1101
00:57:37,095 --> 00:57:39,855
Speaker 4: who are intimately involved in the process, and as a

1102
00:57:39,935 --> 00:57:41,815
Speaker 4: committed to earlier you know, I'm listening to the people

1103
00:57:41,815 --> 00:57:43,775
Speaker 4: who are actually out there on the tools doing the

1104
00:57:43,815 --> 00:57:46,175
Speaker 4: work who tell me that you know, multiples of tens

1105
00:57:46,175 --> 00:57:49,135
Speaker 4: of thousands of dollars extra that you spend. And by

1106
00:57:49,175 --> 00:57:51,215
Speaker 4: the way, of course, any dollar that you spend you

1107
00:57:51,575 --> 00:57:54,455
Speaker 4: have to repay to the bank in a mortgage two

1108
00:57:54,455 --> 00:57:56,735
Speaker 4: and a half times, let's say easily, So you know,

1109
00:57:56,775 --> 00:57:59,375
Speaker 4: an additional twenty thousand dollars if it's as little as that,

1110
00:57:59,775 --> 00:58:01,095
Speaker 4: is fifty k that you've got to repay.

1111
00:58:01,135 --> 00:58:02,695
Speaker 3: So you know, we've got to take this really seriously.

1112
00:58:02,815 --> 00:58:02,975
Speaker 5: Yep.

1113
00:58:03,135 --> 00:58:07,655
Speaker 4: So I can't in good conscience are those issues that

1114
00:58:07,735 --> 00:58:10,215
Speaker 4: are raised with me, and including when you get to

1115
00:58:10,495 --> 00:58:13,175
Speaker 4: you know, particularly further north in the warmer climbs, and

1116
00:58:13,295 --> 00:58:16,615
Speaker 4: you get the moisture issues arising from the fact that

1117
00:58:16,655 --> 00:58:20,535
Speaker 4: we've got insulation requirements out of step with ventilation requirements.

1118
00:58:20,615 --> 00:58:22,815
Speaker 4: So it seems to me there's a problem. We're reviewing

1119
00:58:22,855 --> 00:58:25,015
Speaker 4: that because we want to see exactly how beast we

1120
00:58:25,015 --> 00:58:26,815
Speaker 4: should handle that, And look, I want to take a

1121
00:58:26,935 --> 00:58:28,935
Speaker 4: nuanced approach. I don't want to be in a zone

1122
00:58:28,935 --> 00:58:31,055
Speaker 4: where we have to take a binary approach of rolling

1123
00:58:31,095 --> 00:58:33,295
Speaker 4: it back entirely and suddenly we're back when we were

1124
00:58:33,375 --> 00:58:36,335
Speaker 4: late last year. And certainly there's no question that we

1125
00:58:36,455 --> 00:58:38,695
Speaker 4: go all the way back to the mid nineteen seventies

1126
00:58:38,735 --> 00:58:40,695
Speaker 4: when there's no requirement at all. So let's just you know,

1127
00:58:40,895 --> 00:58:43,895
Speaker 4: not engage with that straw man. But you know, if

1128
00:58:43,935 --> 00:58:45,815
Speaker 4: we say that, it might be that we need more

1129
00:58:45,815 --> 00:58:48,295
Speaker 4: of a differentiation in New Zealand, so that in Northland,

1130
00:58:48,335 --> 00:58:50,615
Speaker 4: for example, where the local mirror is rightly concerned about

1131
00:58:50,615 --> 00:58:54,655
Speaker 4: the affordability and frankly the usefulness of the regulation, versus Southland,

1132
00:58:54,735 --> 00:58:57,855
Speaker 4: you know, we need a nuanced approach. Geographically, it might

1133
00:58:57,935 --> 00:59:01,015
Speaker 4: be that we need to point people more towards modeling

1134
00:59:01,135 --> 00:59:03,935
Speaker 4: and calculation methods which allow more nuanced as opposed to

1135
00:59:03,975 --> 00:59:07,015
Speaker 4: saying here's a schedule that means that the following boxes

1136
00:59:07,095 --> 00:59:09,735
Speaker 4: must be ticked regardless of the additional cost, which is,

1137
00:59:09,815 --> 00:59:11,735
Speaker 4: you know, at a quick and dirty route, but isn't

1138
00:59:11,735 --> 00:59:14,135
Speaker 4: getting those good results. And then finally, the other sort

1139
00:59:14,175 --> 00:59:16,455
Speaker 4: of exerc I suppose on which we could slide the

1140
00:59:16,495 --> 00:59:18,935
Speaker 4: scale one way or the other is to say, well,

1141
00:59:18,975 --> 00:59:21,375
Speaker 4: it might be within the schedule method where it says,

1142
00:59:21,415 --> 00:59:24,895
Speaker 4: you know, literally, according to a matrix, this is the

1143
00:59:24,935 --> 00:59:27,935
Speaker 4: family broken window, this is the concrete slab with insulation.

1144
00:59:28,255 --> 00:59:29,855
Speaker 4: Then we say, well, maybe some of those are better

1145
00:59:29,895 --> 00:59:31,775
Speaker 4: being for back than others. And so we're a bit

1146
00:59:31,855 --> 00:59:34,335
Speaker 4: less prescriptive in terms of how those would be used.

1147
00:59:35,415 --> 00:59:38,215
Speaker 5: Because much of the response what I've found fascinating and

1148
00:59:38,295 --> 00:59:40,535
Speaker 5: I really have enjoyed this. Part of the sort of

1149
00:59:40,575 --> 00:59:43,735
Speaker 5: public discourse on this issue is that we've had lots

1150
00:59:43,735 --> 00:59:46,895
Speaker 5: of groups come forward and kind of put their colors

1151
00:59:46,895 --> 00:59:50,975
Speaker 5: to the mast. Right. They've gone, Hey, Green Building Council, brands,

1152
00:59:52,055 --> 00:59:55,655
Speaker 5: News of Building Surveys, Passive House Institute, a whole bunch

1153
00:59:55,695 --> 00:59:58,215
Speaker 5: of industry bodies have all come forward and said, we

1154
00:59:58,335 --> 01:00:00,895
Speaker 5: don't think this is a good idea. There is no

1155
01:00:01,135 --> 01:00:04,655
Speaker 5: need to wind back the H one regulations. But they

1156
01:00:04,695 --> 01:00:07,015
Speaker 5: have also gone on to talk about exactly what you've

1157
01:00:07,055 --> 01:00:09,895
Speaker 5: talked about. The schedule method is what I think has

1158
01:00:09,975 --> 01:00:13,295
Speaker 5: kind of tripped everybody up, because suddenly outcomes you've got

1159
01:00:13,335 --> 01:00:16,335
Speaker 5: to have R six point six in the ceilings everywhere

1160
01:00:16,375 --> 01:00:20,095
Speaker 5: across the country, regardless of climatic zones. And you've got

1161
01:00:20,175 --> 01:00:23,455
Speaker 5: trust manufacturers freaking out and building different trustes. You've got

1162
01:00:23,495 --> 01:00:26,335
Speaker 5: developers thinking I can't make my house next one hundred

1163
01:00:26,335 --> 01:00:29,935
Speaker 5: and fifty millimeters higher, and so on. I'm just wondering

1164
01:00:29,975 --> 01:00:31,335
Speaker 5: whether some of the people that might have got in

1165
01:00:31,495 --> 01:00:35,335
Speaker 5: urea about these changes to H one are also those

1166
01:00:35,415 --> 01:00:38,415
Speaker 5: people who just want to use the schedule method. Why

1167
01:00:38,455 --> 01:00:40,775
Speaker 5: don't we just ditch the schedule method and tell everyone

1168
01:00:40,855 --> 01:00:42,495
Speaker 5: to use the calculation and modeling method.

1169
01:00:42,895 --> 01:00:45,575
Speaker 4: That's a option on the table, and we're viewing precisely

1170
01:00:45,615 --> 01:00:47,335
Speaker 4: because we want to know the right approach, and it

1171
01:00:47,455 --> 01:00:51,055
Speaker 4: might well be that that's the really straightforward method to

1172
01:00:51,175 --> 01:00:51,655
Speaker 4: take forward.

1173
01:00:51,735 --> 01:00:53,615
Speaker 3: But having said that, I would just say, at the

1174
01:00:53,695 --> 01:00:54,055
Speaker 3: risk of.

1175
01:00:54,255 --> 01:00:57,895
Speaker 4: Immediately undermining my own point, which is essentially endorsing yours,

1176
01:00:58,535 --> 01:01:01,415
Speaker 4: is that we also have to think, then, well, you know,

1177
01:01:02,015 --> 01:01:04,655
Speaker 4: does everyone have access to the calculation and modeling method.

1178
01:01:04,815 --> 01:01:06,975
Speaker 4: The funny thing is I've sat down with the Green

1179
01:01:07,015 --> 01:01:10,535
Speaker 4: Building Council and looked at that, and actually it's looks reasoningly.

1180
01:01:10,215 --> 01:01:13,375
Speaker 3: Straight, really be honest, but people don't know that and.

1181
01:01:13,375 --> 01:01:15,055
Speaker 4: Aren't prepared to use it, then we need to bring

1182
01:01:15,135 --> 01:01:17,215
Speaker 4: them along with us, because come moment, it is just

1183
01:01:17,255 --> 01:01:20,815
Speaker 4: a binary discussion, which is frankly unhelpful. And you know,

1184
01:01:20,895 --> 01:01:22,415
Speaker 4: when people weigh in on one side or the other

1185
01:01:22,535 --> 01:01:25,535
Speaker 4: and make inflammatory comments, then we're not going to get

1186
01:01:25,535 --> 01:01:27,575
Speaker 4: a good public policy outcome. And I'm committed to that,

1187
01:01:27,615 --> 01:01:29,695
Speaker 4: and I don't I'm not sort of going to resolve

1188
01:01:29,735 --> 01:01:29,975
Speaker 4: from that.

1189
01:01:30,295 --> 01:01:33,495
Speaker 5: Yeah, And look, I would agree with you. I think

1190
01:01:33,935 --> 01:01:35,775
Speaker 5: I can sort of understand and I like to try

1191
01:01:35,815 --> 01:01:37,655
Speaker 5: and take a step back and go, you know, why

1192
01:01:37,735 --> 01:01:38,695
Speaker 5: do we have the rules that we have?

1193
01:01:38,935 --> 01:01:39,055
Speaker 14: Right?

1194
01:01:39,455 --> 01:01:41,655
Speaker 5: And I've always taken that approach that, you know, as

1195
01:01:41,695 --> 01:01:44,095
Speaker 5: someone who has to obey the rules in terms of building,

1196
01:01:44,415 --> 01:01:46,215
Speaker 5: I'm always curious as to why do we have the

1197
01:01:46,335 --> 01:01:48,055
Speaker 5: rule that we have most of the time and the

1198
01:01:48,095 --> 01:01:51,215
Speaker 5: building X starts because we want to protect the people

1199
01:01:51,255 --> 01:01:53,895
Speaker 5: that inhabit that space. So that's sort of where I

1200
01:01:53,935 --> 01:01:55,615
Speaker 5: start from. And then I look at the schedule method

1201
01:01:55,655 --> 01:01:59,015
Speaker 5: and go, well, I understand that we still want sort

1202
01:01:59,055 --> 01:02:02,495
Speaker 5: of simplistic, in the best possible way approach to building.

1203
01:02:02,495 --> 01:02:04,175
Speaker 5: Where we go you should be able to take three

1204
01:02:04,255 --> 01:02:06,295
Speaker 5: six o four, open it up and build a house,

1205
01:02:06,775 --> 01:02:09,255
Speaker 5: and we don't want to let go of that. But

1206
01:02:09,575 --> 01:02:13,135
Speaker 5: maybe that's because we do need to build better than

1207
01:02:13,175 --> 01:02:15,655
Speaker 5: you can just build by opening a book. So I

1208
01:02:15,735 --> 01:02:19,735
Speaker 5: think the modeling and calculation method it's not as indecipherable

1209
01:02:19,775 --> 01:02:22,655
Speaker 5: as it was years ago. I can almost understand it

1210
01:02:22,895 --> 01:02:23,095
Speaker 5: to be.

1211
01:02:23,135 --> 01:02:25,415
Speaker 3: Blad Well, that's a ringing endorsement.

1212
01:02:25,615 --> 01:02:28,815
Speaker 4: So that's a point where I made thank you the Minister.

1213
01:02:28,655 --> 01:02:30,935
Speaker 5: Chris Pink with me in the studio today. Will be

1214
01:02:31,055 --> 01:02:34,655
Speaker 5: back after the break. I want to just off the

1215
01:02:35,735 --> 01:02:38,015
Speaker 5: back of something you mentioned there, the binary thing. One

1216
01:02:38,055 --> 01:02:41,135
Speaker 5: of the things that I found fascinating, having been engaged

1217
01:02:41,175 --> 01:02:44,655
Speaker 5: with the industry for as long and promoting discussion, is

1218
01:02:44,775 --> 01:02:47,015
Speaker 5: that we do tend to have a real binary approach

1219
01:02:47,095 --> 01:02:49,375
Speaker 5: that as soon as I say I've got an idea,

1220
01:02:50,015 --> 01:02:53,015
Speaker 5: the instant response from another part of the sector is, yeah,

1221
01:02:53,055 --> 01:02:55,175
Speaker 5: but I've got an idea, And because we've both got

1222
01:02:55,255 --> 01:02:57,495
Speaker 5: an idea, one of them's got to be wrong. Are

1223
01:02:57,575 --> 01:03:00,175
Speaker 5: you fighting your way through that? Are you finding that?

1224
01:03:00,495 --> 01:03:01,455
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a little bit of that.

1225
01:03:01,575 --> 01:03:04,775
Speaker 4: You know, there's least of that with those who are

1226
01:03:04,775 --> 01:03:08,495
Speaker 4: actively engaged in buildings find really interesting, you know, the commentariat,

1227
01:03:08,655 --> 01:03:11,735
Speaker 4: and you know, frankly, those who approach these questions from

1228
01:03:11,775 --> 01:03:14,295
Speaker 4: a political or an ideological lens, they are the ones

1229
01:03:14,335 --> 01:03:16,255
Speaker 4: who are really binary because they've got some sort of

1230
01:03:16,615 --> 01:03:19,935
Speaker 4: point to prove one way or the other. And actually,

1231
01:03:20,175 --> 01:03:22,735
Speaker 4: the most helpful thing is to engage reasonably with people

1232
01:03:22,735 --> 01:03:25,615
Speaker 4: who are in the game using these methods.

1233
01:03:25,775 --> 01:03:28,015
Speaker 3: In the case of the H one question, YEP to

1234
01:03:28,055 --> 01:03:28,575
Speaker 3: be resolved.

1235
01:03:28,895 --> 01:03:31,095
Speaker 4: And actually, you know, I think there is a lot

1236
01:03:31,095 --> 01:03:32,495
Speaker 4: of good will out there to do things better, but

1237
01:03:32,695 --> 01:03:35,495
Speaker 4: no one wants to build a house that's leaky or

1238
01:03:35,575 --> 01:03:38,095
Speaker 4: damp or cold and so on, you know, and it

1239
01:03:38,215 --> 01:03:40,215
Speaker 4: amuses me when you know, I've received quite a lot

1240
01:03:40,215 --> 01:03:43,135
Speaker 4: of quite shorty emails, as you can imagine. And you know,

1241
01:03:44,015 --> 01:03:46,015
Speaker 4: one category was, oh, you know, I grew up in

1242
01:03:46,055 --> 01:03:48,135
Speaker 4: the mid ninety seventies and it was under insulation. I said, well,

1243
01:03:48,175 --> 01:03:50,495
Speaker 4: that's lovely, but with all due respect, that's not at

1244
01:03:50,495 --> 01:03:51,415
Speaker 4: all on the table.

1245
01:03:51,535 --> 01:03:52,135
Speaker 3: At number two.

1246
01:03:53,135 --> 01:03:55,215
Speaker 4: You know, there was also the category that says, oh,

1247
01:03:55,255 --> 01:03:56,815
Speaker 4: you know, I've lived in a house for the last

1248
01:03:56,855 --> 01:03:59,255
Speaker 4: five years. That's really good because it's insulated and got

1249
01:03:59,335 --> 01:04:02,215
Speaker 4: double glazing, and that's really important we retain that. And

1250
01:04:02,255 --> 01:04:04,495
Speaker 4: I said, well, that's lovely, because actually that's the method

1251
01:04:04,655 --> 01:04:07,135
Speaker 4: that's you know, at most we're going to particially go

1252
01:04:07,255 --> 01:04:09,815
Speaker 4: back to. So, if anything, they've endorsed my approach, even

1253
01:04:09,815 --> 01:04:11,735
Speaker 4: though they've come at it from quite an aggressive political

1254
01:04:11,775 --> 01:04:14,295
Speaker 4: angle to to point out how how bad and wrong

1255
01:04:14,415 --> 01:04:15,215
Speaker 4: I am in my thinking.

1256
01:04:15,335 --> 01:04:17,695
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm not bothered by that. I know

1257
01:04:17,775 --> 01:04:18,495
Speaker 3: that we need great.

1258
01:04:18,335 --> 01:04:21,295
Speaker 4: Affordability as well as the sustainability et cetera, et cetera.

1259
01:04:21,975 --> 01:04:23,895
Speaker 4: So I'm determined we can get there. And I really

1260
01:04:23,935 --> 01:04:25,855
Speaker 4: think if we listen to the people who are engaged

1261
01:04:26,495 --> 01:04:28,295
Speaker 4: in doing this work because they approach the question in

1262
01:04:28,295 --> 01:04:30,415
Speaker 4: good faith, they know the costs involved will get to

1263
01:04:30,415 --> 01:04:30,895
Speaker 4: a good place.

1264
01:04:31,175 --> 01:04:33,415
Speaker 5: So obviously, all of this discussion around H one and

1265
01:04:33,495 --> 01:04:36,855
Speaker 5: any change that might be made, when what's the timeline

1266
01:04:36,895 --> 01:04:38,615
Speaker 5: for that, well, the reviews.

1267
01:04:38,415 --> 01:04:42,375
Speaker 4: Taking place as we speak, and then after that depending

1268
01:04:42,415 --> 01:04:44,415
Speaker 4: on what the result is, and and you know, the

1269
01:04:45,255 --> 01:04:48,535
Speaker 4: political decision making, which I can't really prejudge in terms

1270
01:04:48,575 --> 01:04:52,095
Speaker 4: of time frame or result. You know that that's a

1271
01:04:52,135 --> 01:04:53,895
Speaker 4: little bit how long is a piece of string kind

1272
01:04:53,895 --> 01:04:56,415
Speaker 4: of question, but it would it could be quite a

1273
01:04:56,575 --> 01:04:59,775
Speaker 4: quite a quick change because it's such a regulation rather

1274
01:04:59,775 --> 01:05:01,415
Speaker 4: than needing an active parliament, so it could be a

1275
01:05:01,495 --> 01:05:05,175
Speaker 4: matter of months as opposed to you know years.

1276
01:05:05,215 --> 01:05:09,095
Speaker 5: Okay, your sense of where it might go at this stage.

1277
01:05:09,935 --> 01:05:12,895
Speaker 4: I'd be surprised if we end up with exactly what

1278
01:05:12,935 --> 01:05:15,095
Speaker 4: we've got now, but I'd also be surprised if we

1279
01:05:15,215 --> 01:05:17,015
Speaker 4: were to roll it back entirely. And you know, I've

1280
01:05:17,015 --> 01:05:19,175
Speaker 4: got to be careful. I don't predge sure discussions by

1281
01:05:19,215 --> 01:05:21,455
Speaker 4: the Manistereoc colleagues, so maybe I'm about out and know

1282
01:05:21,575 --> 01:05:27,295
Speaker 4: them even expressing that expectation but we'll end that was something.

1283
01:05:27,495 --> 01:05:29,815
Speaker 3: I think it's going to keep everyone happy right now.

1284
01:05:29,895 --> 01:05:32,455
Speaker 5: This might be more in Chris Bishop's realm, but the

1285
01:05:32,775 --> 01:05:37,055
Speaker 5: sixty square meter granny flat, and I don't find that

1286
01:05:37,135 --> 01:05:39,535
Speaker 5: an offensive term. I think people the reason that they

1287
01:05:39,575 --> 01:05:42,775
Speaker 5: were built in originally nineteen sixties and got that phrase

1288
01:05:42,935 --> 01:05:46,935
Speaker 5: was because ideally they were a minor dwelling that allowed

1289
01:05:47,095 --> 01:05:49,295
Speaker 5: family members to live there on the same property. So,

1290
01:05:50,615 --> 01:05:52,495
Speaker 5: for want of a better term, let's still kill them

1291
01:05:52,535 --> 01:05:56,735
Speaker 5: granny flats and not be upset about that. How much

1292
01:05:56,815 --> 01:05:59,095
Speaker 5: of a difference do you think that might make in

1293
01:05:59,215 --> 01:06:03,455
Speaker 5: terms of either supply, affordability and so on. There's obviously

1294
01:06:03,535 --> 01:06:04,255
Speaker 5: been some research.

1295
01:06:04,415 --> 01:06:06,895
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll make a difference in two ways. And by

1296
01:06:06,895 --> 01:06:09,255
Speaker 4: the way, I've got to give credit to New Zealand first,

1297
01:06:09,335 --> 01:06:11,375
Speaker 4: with whom when combustion this was an idea very much

1298
01:06:11,575 --> 01:06:13,775
Speaker 4: pushed forward by them, and Chris Bishop and I are

1299
01:06:13,775 --> 01:06:17,615
Speaker 4: both really keen on getting it, you know, into the

1300
01:06:17,655 --> 01:06:19,895
Speaker 4: statute book the laws land as soon as possible, so

1301
01:06:19,975 --> 01:06:22,335
Speaker 4: he owns the resource management side effectively and then the

1302
01:06:22,375 --> 01:06:25,135
Speaker 4: building construction side relating to building consens is the bit

1303
01:06:25,215 --> 01:06:28,055
Speaker 4: that I have, so you know, and it's a joint

1304
01:06:28,135 --> 01:06:28,815
Speaker 4: venture obviously.

1305
01:06:29,095 --> 01:06:30,575
Speaker 3: Look, I think it'll make a difference in two ways.

1306
01:06:30,855 --> 01:06:33,255
Speaker 4: One is that it will provide a bit more housing

1307
01:06:33,895 --> 01:06:37,495
Speaker 4: supply and therefore affordability. In a related point to that

1308
01:06:37,815 --> 01:06:40,335
Speaker 4: is that it provides a bit of extra work for

1309
01:06:40,375 --> 01:06:42,655
Speaker 4: a construction sector that is asking for a pipeline. It's

1310
01:06:42,735 --> 01:06:44,895
Speaker 4: asking for some quick ones, and by quick I mean

1311
01:06:44,935 --> 01:06:46,415
Speaker 4: by the way not having to wait for a resource

1312
01:06:46,455 --> 01:06:47,575
Speaker 4: concent and the building consent.

1313
01:06:47,735 --> 01:06:48,975
Speaker 3: They'll be able to get on and.

1314
01:06:49,015 --> 01:06:51,255
Speaker 4: Do it, you know, the day after that law has passed,

1315
01:06:51,455 --> 01:06:53,175
Speaker 4: or actually if the smart and working in an off

1316
01:06:53,215 --> 01:06:54,775
Speaker 4: site kind of man, that could be doing it right now.

1317
01:06:55,735 --> 01:06:57,135
Speaker 4: So it's a little bit of a quick and dirty

1318
01:06:57,215 --> 01:07:01,135
Speaker 4: way of providing some assurance and frankly, some work to

1319
01:07:01,215 --> 01:07:03,455
Speaker 4: a sector that's crying out for it right now. And

1320
01:07:03,535 --> 01:07:05,935
Speaker 4: then the other category is actually I think more interesting

1321
01:07:05,975 --> 01:07:09,095
Speaker 4: in a way because there's a bigger picture testing of

1322
01:07:09,135 --> 01:07:11,695
Speaker 4: a hypothesis that says, if you've got a structure that

1323
01:07:11,855 --> 01:07:14,655
Speaker 4: is relatively low risk because we're talking about a single story,

1324
01:07:15,215 --> 01:07:18,575
Speaker 4: you know, relatively small, an existing parcel of land, so

1325
01:07:18,655 --> 01:07:21,415
Speaker 4: it's not difficult from a development point of view, you know,

1326
01:07:21,455 --> 01:07:24,735
Speaker 4: and hopefully not geotechnically either that actually you don't need

1327
01:07:24,815 --> 01:07:27,375
Speaker 4: to have that sign off by way of either type

1328
01:07:27,415 --> 01:07:28,895
Speaker 4: of consent. So it's a bit of a testing of

1329
01:07:28,975 --> 01:07:33,335
Speaker 4: the model of a trusted provider being trusted and having

1330
01:07:33,375 --> 01:07:37,535
Speaker 4: that qualification be it licensed building practitioner, plumber, guess for

1331
01:07:37,655 --> 01:07:40,375
Speaker 4: a drain layer, eltrician and so on, doing that work,

1332
01:07:40,855 --> 01:07:44,055
Speaker 4: simply providing the answer to council. And you know, look,

1333
01:07:44,095 --> 01:07:47,015
Speaker 4: it's not gonna completely change the game in either of

1334
01:07:47,055 --> 01:07:48,375
Speaker 4: those ways, but we think it's a step in the

1335
01:07:48,455 --> 01:07:49,175
Speaker 4: right direction.

1336
01:07:50,015 --> 01:07:52,135
Speaker 5: Just in terms of council. One of the things that

1337
01:07:52,775 --> 01:07:55,735
Speaker 5: may not necessarily it's not necessarily building in construction, but

1338
01:07:55,815 --> 01:07:58,295
Speaker 5: it impacts on all of us who are building is

1339
01:07:58,735 --> 01:08:01,575
Speaker 5: councils and the relationship that we have with counsel, either

1340
01:08:01,655 --> 01:08:06,015
Speaker 5: through the consenting the inspection process. And again taking a

1341
01:08:06,015 --> 01:08:09,775
Speaker 5: step back, what I've come to appreciate is that ultimately,

1342
01:08:09,895 --> 01:08:12,815
Speaker 5: when things go wrong and the developer's gone and the

1343
01:08:12,855 --> 01:08:15,655
Speaker 5: business has gone, and the product manufacturer has gone, it's

1344
01:08:15,815 --> 01:08:20,055
Speaker 5: counsel that our last man standing. And that relates to

1345
01:08:20,175 --> 01:08:23,215
Speaker 5: that whole thing around joined and several liability. So if

1346
01:08:23,335 --> 01:08:26,375
Speaker 5: you were the person who's always going to hold the

1347
01:08:26,495 --> 01:08:30,575
Speaker 5: can you would be incredibly cautious and that's what counsels are, right.

1348
01:08:31,935 --> 01:08:35,455
Speaker 5: So is there a way forward that you were the

1349
01:08:35,495 --> 01:08:39,015
Speaker 5: government of thinking about where maybe we change joint and

1350
01:08:39,175 --> 01:08:40,135
Speaker 5: several liability?

1351
01:08:41,255 --> 01:08:43,615
Speaker 4: In short, yes, I don't think the system works well

1352
01:08:43,815 --> 01:08:45,095
Speaker 4: as that is currently designed.

1353
01:08:45,375 --> 01:08:46,735
Speaker 3: And this is not a new idea, by the way.

1354
01:08:46,735 --> 01:08:49,895
Speaker 4: I think sure previous ministers have made noises in this

1355
01:08:50,015 --> 01:08:52,975
Speaker 4: regard and haven't ultimately gone through and done that. And

1356
01:08:53,055 --> 01:08:55,255
Speaker 4: you know, it's a government decision that I can't prejudge again,

1357
01:08:55,375 --> 01:08:57,495
Speaker 4: but suffice to say, we do recognize the problem and

1358
01:08:57,775 --> 01:08:59,695
Speaker 4: we're keen to do something about it. So if the

1359
01:08:59,735 --> 01:09:02,135
Speaker 4: problem is a lack of certainty and consistency from the

1360
01:09:02,215 --> 01:09:03,935
Speaker 4: point of view of those who are doing the building

1361
01:09:04,095 --> 01:09:07,015
Speaker 4: and an in frustration of getting different interpretations of the

1362
01:09:07,055 --> 01:09:10,055
Speaker 4: same building code according to which side of a council

1363
01:09:10,375 --> 01:09:12,615
Speaker 4: boundary you're on, or if you take the point of

1364
01:09:12,695 --> 01:09:15,415
Speaker 4: view of council as a building consent authority, as you

1365
01:09:15,535 --> 01:09:17,615
Speaker 4: rightly point out, they have to be cautious, you know,

1366
01:09:17,655 --> 01:09:19,055
Speaker 4: and as rate payers we should thank them for that

1367
01:09:19,175 --> 01:09:21,575
Speaker 4: because to be the last man standing, which is to say,

1368
01:09:22,055 --> 01:09:24,255
Speaker 4: to have joint and several liability, which could mean one

1369
01:09:24,375 --> 01:09:26,215
Speaker 4: hundred percent of the cost of a defect in the

1370
01:09:26,255 --> 01:09:30,855
Speaker 4: event that the developers pockets and the builders last seen

1371
01:09:30,935 --> 01:09:32,415
Speaker 4: on the horizon in a puff.

1372
01:09:32,175 --> 01:09:33,615
Speaker 3: Of smoke with the ute and dog.

1373
01:09:34,295 --> 01:09:36,535
Speaker 4: Then actually, you know that there's a huge responsibility for

1374
01:09:36,615 --> 01:09:40,255
Speaker 4: a council, and some councils well resourced to do that.

1375
01:09:41,135 --> 01:09:44,775
Speaker 4: They might have a rate payer base and a staffing

1376
01:09:44,895 --> 01:09:48,455
Speaker 4: resource that and therefore some specialization within that that supports it.

1377
01:09:48,735 --> 01:09:49,695
Speaker 3: Others much smaller.

1378
01:09:50,375 --> 01:09:54,375
Speaker 4: Frankly, it's a huge burden on them, and they would

1379
01:09:54,415 --> 01:09:55,095
Speaker 4: rather be shot of it.

1380
01:09:55,135 --> 01:09:56,375
Speaker 3: I think, all of them, to be honest.

1381
01:09:56,455 --> 01:09:58,935
Speaker 4: And it's never the case that I meet with local

1382
01:09:58,975 --> 01:10:01,615
Speaker 4: government and they don't raise this with me. So I think,

1383
01:10:01,775 --> 01:10:04,175
Speaker 4: you know, there are other models we could explore. One

1384
01:10:04,775 --> 01:10:06,175
Speaker 4: has been put out there as in sort of a

1385
01:10:06,415 --> 01:10:07,615
Speaker 4: more of a national kind.

1386
01:10:07,495 --> 01:10:09,095
Speaker 3: Of consenting authority.

1387
01:10:09,415 --> 01:10:12,215
Speaker 4: Maybe is to sort of funnel applications and get the

1388
01:10:12,535 --> 01:10:16,455
Speaker 4: certainty and consistency that way. Or it might be that

1389
01:10:16,575 --> 01:10:18,855
Speaker 4: we have more of a market based system where the

1390
01:10:18,935 --> 01:10:22,255
Speaker 4: private certifiers who already do the work as contracted by

1391
01:10:22,335 --> 01:10:25,775
Speaker 4: the existing building content authorities might be able to be

1392
01:10:25,775 --> 01:10:27,935
Speaker 4: approached directly. Now we've got to be careful of course,

1393
01:10:28,015 --> 01:10:30,735
Speaker 4: whatever the system design is that we are providing a

1394
01:10:30,815 --> 01:10:35,775
Speaker 4: genuine assurance on top of you know, the builder developer

1395
01:10:35,895 --> 01:10:36,895
Speaker 4: marking their own homework.

1396
01:10:37,495 --> 01:10:39,495
Speaker 3: But by the time you add and you know, some

1397
01:10:39,775 --> 01:10:40,135
Speaker 3: kind of.

1398
01:10:41,615 --> 01:10:46,455
Speaker 4: Disciplines around insurance, credibility, balance sheet that enable us to

1399
01:10:46,495 --> 01:10:48,375
Speaker 4: trust some more than others. Maybe it's the case that

1400
01:10:48,735 --> 01:10:52,095
Speaker 4: we can be a bit more forward looking in terms

1401
01:10:52,135 --> 01:10:55,135
Speaker 4: of the way that we require things to be certified

1402
01:10:55,135 --> 01:10:57,695
Speaker 4: by a council. Because you know, they hate this, you

1403
01:10:57,775 --> 01:10:59,495
Speaker 4: know this is this is bad news for them. I've

1404
01:10:59,495 --> 01:11:01,935
Speaker 4: got all the risk, none of the reward, and I

1405
01:11:02,015 --> 01:11:04,095
Speaker 4: think they'll be you know, looking forward to conversation that

1406
01:11:04,135 --> 01:11:06,855
Speaker 4: we're having, I think quite soon in the public's us.

1407
01:11:06,895 --> 01:11:08,655
Speaker 5: You know, we're not the other the only sort of

1408
01:11:08,935 --> 01:11:11,895
Speaker 5: western first world nation that builds houses, right, So look

1409
01:11:11,935 --> 01:11:14,055
Speaker 5: around the world and there's different models and a lot

1410
01:11:14,095 --> 01:11:16,575
Speaker 5: of them seem to be focused on insurance.

1411
01:11:16,695 --> 01:11:16,815
Speaker 12: Right.

1412
01:11:17,015 --> 01:11:21,055
Speaker 5: So as a contractor, I can't build without insurance. If

1413
01:11:21,095 --> 01:11:24,255
Speaker 5: I'm a designer, I can't do that without insurance. All

1414
01:11:24,295 --> 01:11:27,095
Speaker 5: of the contractors are insured. If there's a problem, the

1415
01:11:27,175 --> 01:11:31,015
Speaker 5: homeowner rings the insurance company and they chase the contractor.

1416
01:11:31,135 --> 01:11:31,935
Speaker 5: Is that a way forward?

1417
01:11:32,615 --> 01:11:33,655
Speaker 3: It's a possible way forward.

1418
01:11:33,735 --> 01:11:35,775
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the role of insurance is something we

1419
01:11:36,015 --> 01:11:38,455
Speaker 4: need to think about as an exercise and risk galication.

1420
01:11:38,615 --> 01:11:40,495
Speaker 4: And of course all these questions are the ones at

1421
01:11:40,535 --> 01:11:43,935
Speaker 4: risk galication, so very fair to ask the question. I

1422
01:11:44,015 --> 01:11:45,895
Speaker 4: think in terms of comparing that with some of the

1423
01:11:46,015 --> 01:11:50,015
Speaker 4: systems overseas, we do have a smaller market in New Zealand,

1424
01:11:50,055 --> 01:11:53,295
Speaker 4: so we're less attractive immediately to insurers. We're also very

1425
01:11:53,335 --> 01:11:57,095
Speaker 4: hazard prone if you think about the direct relationship of

1426
01:11:57,215 --> 01:12:01,975
Speaker 4: our earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, tsunamis and all that exposure that

1427
01:12:02,055 --> 01:12:04,375
Speaker 4: you have in New Zealand, more so than in every

1428
01:12:04,455 --> 01:12:04,935
Speaker 4: country in the.

1429
01:12:04,935 --> 01:12:05,935
Speaker 3: World other than Bangladesh.

1430
01:12:05,975 --> 01:12:08,135
Speaker 4: By the way, you know, from an assurance point of view,

1431
01:12:08,455 --> 01:12:11,815
Speaker 4: we're not that attractive to ensure building works. So I

1432
01:12:11,935 --> 01:12:14,575
Speaker 4: think it would need to be a nuanced conversation. But actually,

1433
01:12:14,615 --> 01:12:16,775
Speaker 4: I mean I've been having it already with a number

1434
01:12:16,775 --> 01:12:20,015
Speaker 4: of key players and excuse me, an insurance sector. Yeah,

1435
01:12:20,015 --> 01:12:21,455
Speaker 4: because if they're not if they're not up for it,

1436
01:12:21,575 --> 01:12:23,895
Speaker 4: then they ain't gonna work. But having said that, if

1437
01:12:23,935 --> 01:12:26,375
Speaker 4: there's an assurance they can provide, you know, the professional

1438
01:12:26,375 --> 01:12:31,215
Speaker 4: indemnity that you've already referenced that that some occupational licensing

1439
01:12:31,335 --> 01:12:34,295
Speaker 4: goes along with then then yeah, let's let's think.

1440
01:12:34,215 --> 01:12:36,055
Speaker 5: About how that can fit in, because I think there's

1441
01:12:36,055 --> 01:12:39,215
Speaker 5: another advantage that as well, which is also regulating the industry,

1442
01:12:39,335 --> 01:12:42,015
Speaker 5: because if you are a person that does poor quality

1443
01:12:42,095 --> 01:12:44,295
Speaker 5: work and you've had a number of claims, then maybe

1444
01:12:44,375 --> 01:12:47,495
Speaker 5: you won't get licensed or you won't get insurance, and

1445
01:12:47,535 --> 01:12:50,495
Speaker 5: therefore you won't be working. And you know, I'm sure

1446
01:12:50,535 --> 01:12:53,215
Speaker 5: that you've seen shoddy work. I certainly have, and we

1447
01:12:53,375 --> 01:12:55,255
Speaker 5: need to be able to get rid of people like

1448
01:12:55,375 --> 01:12:56,735
Speaker 5: that from the industry.

1449
01:12:56,935 --> 01:12:59,735
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think that's a really good point to make,

1450
01:12:59,775 --> 01:13:02,255
Speaker 4: because the quid pro quo of trusting those who are

1451
01:13:02,295 --> 01:13:04,415
Speaker 4: credible and respectable is actually maybe we need to be

1452
01:13:04,455 --> 01:13:07,135
Speaker 4: a lot harder on those that are use the shorthand

1453
01:13:07,215 --> 01:13:10,415
Speaker 4: vernacular cowboys and who are ripping people off, who are

1454
01:13:10,695 --> 01:13:14,415
Speaker 4: making us nervous from a whole system perspective, as well

1455
01:13:14,455 --> 01:13:17,815
Speaker 4: as leaving people very vulnerable to do with the value

1456
01:13:17,935 --> 01:13:20,535
Speaker 4: of their biggest asset they'll ever own, and know as

1457
01:13:20,575 --> 01:13:23,375
Speaker 4: relatively unsophisticated people who need a roof to live under

1458
01:13:23,375 --> 01:13:25,455
Speaker 4: the head, they've got to make a decision, and we've

1459
01:13:25,495 --> 01:13:27,295
Speaker 4: got to provide some protection and actually a little bit

1460
01:13:27,295 --> 01:13:30,055
Speaker 4: of that could be the stick as well as the carrot.

1461
01:13:29,815 --> 01:13:31,855
Speaker 3: In terms of those who are doing good work and

1462
01:13:31,935 --> 01:13:34,255
Speaker 3: those who aren't. And you know, frankly, if we have

1463
01:13:34,335 --> 01:13:35,055
Speaker 3: a situation at the.

1464
01:13:35,055 --> 01:13:38,575
Speaker 4: Moment where you have a couple of pretty poor practitioners

1465
01:13:38,575 --> 01:13:42,255
Speaker 4: who are going around ruining various different building projects and

1466
01:13:42,615 --> 01:13:44,615
Speaker 4: leaving a trail of heartache, you know we need.

1467
01:13:44,535 --> 01:13:45,215
Speaker 3: To weed them out.

1468
01:13:45,295 --> 01:13:48,415
Speaker 4: So I'm unreally keen to try and do that as

1469
01:13:48,455 --> 01:13:51,615
Speaker 4: part of an overall reform that sees rusk allicated appropriately.

1470
01:13:52,135 --> 01:13:55,695
Speaker 5: The LBP scheme has been around since I got registered

1471
01:13:55,735 --> 01:13:58,975
Speaker 5: in twenty twelve. It's probably around a little bit longer

1472
01:13:59,015 --> 01:14:02,415
Speaker 5: than that. Do you see scope to extend or expand that?

1473
01:14:02,615 --> 01:14:04,775
Speaker 5: Like one of the vision for it seemed to have

1474
01:14:04,855 --> 01:14:08,415
Speaker 5: been that if you like myself, I've got a site

1475
01:14:08,495 --> 01:14:12,415
Speaker 5: license and a carpentry license. Therefore I'm seen as responsible

1476
01:14:12,495 --> 01:14:15,735
Speaker 5: and professional and all the rest of it. Hopefully, so

1477
01:14:16,575 --> 01:14:19,895
Speaker 5: should I be able to take on more responsibility and

1478
01:14:20,415 --> 01:14:23,535
Speaker 5: do more of my own inspections or have lesser inspections

1479
01:14:23,615 --> 01:14:26,095
Speaker 5: to do? You know, is that something you'd look at

1480
01:14:26,255 --> 01:14:27,895
Speaker 5: extending the LBP scheme.

1481
01:14:28,095 --> 01:14:31,135
Speaker 4: Potentially I think we need to make the system meaningful.

1482
01:14:31,415 --> 01:14:32,935
Speaker 4: You know, there's got to be some reason to have

1483
01:14:33,015 --> 01:14:35,535
Speaker 4: that status. And if it means, for example, in relation

1484
01:14:35,615 --> 01:14:39,375
Speaker 4: to the Grandy Flat proposal, that it is LBPS as

1485
01:14:39,415 --> 01:14:42,055
Speaker 4: opposed to anyone else who might rock up and fancy

1486
01:14:42,055 --> 01:14:43,535
Speaker 4: their ability to whack a couple of bits of wore

1487
01:14:43,575 --> 01:14:45,815
Speaker 4: by two together, then then we say, well, that's meaningful,

1488
01:14:45,975 --> 01:14:48,695
Speaker 4: and therefore we need to check that we've got the

1489
01:14:48,775 --> 01:14:54,015
Speaker 4: standards and the robustness of that certification. And so that's

1490
01:14:54,055 --> 01:14:56,095
Speaker 4: an example of how I think we can actually force

1491
01:14:56,135 --> 01:14:59,375
Speaker 4: people to take it seriously and then not saying it's

1492
01:14:59,415 --> 01:15:00,935
Speaker 4: not taken seriously at the moment, but you know, it's

1493
01:15:00,935 --> 01:15:02,535
Speaker 4: got to be meaningful. There's got to be some weight

1494
01:15:02,615 --> 01:15:05,775
Speaker 4: attached to that sure, and because it seems to me

1495
01:15:05,855 --> 01:15:08,295
Speaker 4: that there's a an amount of restricted building work quite

1496
01:15:08,375 --> 01:15:10,935
Speaker 4: unquote that has actually undertaken under supervision in a way

1497
01:15:10,975 --> 01:15:13,415
Speaker 4: that's not necessarily reflecting that.

1498
01:15:13,495 --> 01:15:15,855
Speaker 3: Kind of level of assurance we want. But I also

1499
01:15:15,935 --> 01:15:16,895
Speaker 3: think this fits into a.

1500
01:15:16,895 --> 01:15:20,135
Speaker 4: Broader question that we're also looking at, which is self certification,

1501
01:15:20,375 --> 01:15:23,855
Speaker 4: so that anomally, for example, that plumbers can't self certify.

1502
01:15:23,975 --> 01:15:26,335
Speaker 5: You know, I understand that's going to change though. Yeah,

1503
01:15:26,375 --> 01:15:27,175
Speaker 5: and we've seen plumbers.

1504
01:15:27,335 --> 01:15:30,455
Speaker 4: We've said that openly, and you know, it does seem

1505
01:15:30,455 --> 01:15:32,935
Speaker 4: an anomaly that they don't have that level of trust

1506
01:15:32,975 --> 01:15:36,055
Speaker 4: competing with for example, electricians or a guess who have

1507
01:15:36,135 --> 01:15:37,935
Speaker 4: done the same with trade who may be the same

1508
01:15:38,015 --> 01:15:41,415
Speaker 4: person but doing network, you know, in that different place

1509
01:15:41,495 --> 01:15:43,135
Speaker 4: on the site. So you know, we want to remove

1510
01:15:43,175 --> 01:15:44,775
Speaker 4: those anomalies. We want to move in the direction of

1511
01:15:44,815 --> 01:15:49,015
Speaker 4: trusting people who have proven through qualification and experience, professional

1512
01:15:49,095 --> 01:15:51,495
Speaker 4: body membership and so on, that they can be trusted.

1513
01:15:52,295 --> 01:15:56,295
Speaker 5: It's fair to say, like every incoming government, people arrive

1514
01:15:56,375 --> 01:15:59,055
Speaker 5: with a whole bunch of ideas, and it seems that

1515
01:15:59,135 --> 01:16:01,455
Speaker 5: you and all of your colleagues have all come in

1516
01:16:01,615 --> 01:16:05,295
Speaker 5: with things that they want to change. So you, for

1517
01:16:05,655 --> 01:16:08,415
Speaker 5: your role, give me your top five things that you

1518
01:16:08,495 --> 01:16:12,255
Speaker 5: want to change as Minister for Housing and Construction or

1519
01:16:12,255 --> 01:16:13,095
Speaker 5: Building the construct.

1520
01:16:13,175 --> 01:16:13,335
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1521
01:16:13,575 --> 01:16:15,575
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've talked about a couple of them already and

1522
01:16:15,695 --> 01:16:17,975
Speaker 4: I think you know, with as you could probably hear

1523
01:16:17,975 --> 01:16:19,975
Speaker 4: in my voice and hopefully your listeners can too, some

1524
01:16:20,095 --> 01:16:23,695
Speaker 4: passion around you know, reforming systems to make it easier

1525
01:16:24,135 --> 01:16:26,175
Speaker 4: and more affordable to build. So part of that is

1526
01:16:26,175 --> 01:16:28,615
Speaker 4: the product thing, and you know, if we elevate that

1527
01:16:28,655 --> 01:16:31,655
Speaker 4: to high level, it's all about competition, as recommended by

1528
01:16:31,655 --> 01:16:34,255
Speaker 4: the Commerce Commission. And then you talk about the Grani flax,

1529
01:16:34,335 --> 01:16:35,815
Speaker 4: which I think is an interesting step in the right

1530
01:16:35,895 --> 01:16:37,975
Speaker 4: direction that won't solve all the problems of the world,

1531
01:16:38,335 --> 01:16:40,415
Speaker 4: is going to be a useful test case in terms

1532
01:16:40,455 --> 01:16:44,335
Speaker 4: of some of those assurance mechanisms outside the consenting process.

1533
01:16:44,655 --> 01:16:47,135
Speaker 4: Number three I think would be the consent system itself,

1534
01:16:47,415 --> 01:16:52,295
Speaker 4: in the administration of the of the building consents and

1535
01:16:52,415 --> 01:16:57,055
Speaker 4: cccs and in everything between. By the current structure sixty

1536
01:16:57,135 --> 01:17:00,655
Speaker 4: seven different authorities to monitor compliance with the single code

1537
01:17:00,695 --> 01:17:01,775
Speaker 4: simply doesn't make sense.

1538
01:17:01,935 --> 01:17:02,215
Speaker 15: There we go.

1539
01:17:02,255 --> 01:17:04,135
Speaker 3: I've said it, so I'd better change it now.

1540
01:17:05,215 --> 01:17:09,375
Speaker 4: And part of that, I think remote visual inspections strategically

1541
01:17:09,455 --> 01:17:14,095
Speaker 4: are helpful because apart from providing some greater efficiency along

1542
01:17:14,175 --> 01:17:17,495
Speaker 4: the ways and reducing those delays and frustration, you also say, well,

1543
01:17:17,535 --> 01:17:19,455
Speaker 4: and if we're going to take that approach, then you

1544
01:17:19,535 --> 01:17:21,535
Speaker 4: can have more of a regional model, maybe even a

1545
01:17:21,615 --> 01:17:24,295
Speaker 4: national model that says work that's being done in a

1546
01:17:24,295 --> 01:17:28,335
Speaker 4: particular part of New Zealand if it can be verified remotely,

1547
01:17:28,615 --> 01:17:32,175
Speaker 4: then actually you can have a specialized building concent officer

1548
01:17:32,255 --> 01:17:34,575
Speaker 4: who may not live in the same geographical area, who

1549
01:17:34,615 --> 01:17:37,335
Speaker 4: may not be within driving distance, can actually monitor the

1550
01:17:37,375 --> 01:17:40,775
Speaker 4: performance of that and so that degree of specialization as

1551
01:17:40,815 --> 01:17:44,455
Speaker 4: well as general availability and efficiency resource as hopefully you

1552
01:17:44,495 --> 01:17:47,175
Speaker 4: know part of that story about remote visual inspections. So

1553
01:17:47,255 --> 01:17:49,495
Speaker 4: you've allowed me I think five, and I've got the

1554
01:17:49,655 --> 01:17:52,215
Speaker 4: three to the other two I think would be in

1555
01:17:52,415 --> 01:17:55,615
Speaker 4: relation to sustainability, and I know that you know, per

1556
01:17:55,655 --> 01:17:58,415
Speaker 4: the H one conversation, that is controversial because because I'm

1557
01:17:58,415 --> 01:18:02,575
Speaker 4: not prepared to recommend anything that would increase the cost

1558
01:18:02,655 --> 01:18:05,455
Speaker 4: of construction and make it unaffordable for people to own

1559
01:18:05,495 --> 01:18:09,535
Speaker 4: their home. And I know blatantly putting this in residential gyms.

1560
01:18:09,575 --> 01:18:12,815
Speaker 4: And there's a commercial sector as well, be office, retail, industrial,

1561
01:18:12,895 --> 01:18:15,375
Speaker 4: and then you've got the infrastructure. But you know, as shorthand,

1562
01:18:15,495 --> 01:18:17,775
Speaker 4: if we want to have those good outcomes but can

1563
01:18:17,855 --> 01:18:20,055
Speaker 4: achieve them in a way that's good for the environment,

1564
01:18:20,175 --> 01:18:23,015
Speaker 4: good for the economic bottom line as well, then I

1565
01:18:23,055 --> 01:18:24,775
Speaker 4: think we should be smart enough to try and achieve

1566
01:18:24,855 --> 01:18:26,855
Speaker 4: that and then just surround it out with the final one.

1567
01:18:27,215 --> 01:18:29,495
Speaker 4: But no less than the others, I suppose, because it

1568
01:18:29,575 --> 01:18:32,175
Speaker 4: is a big question for New Zealand seismic risk you know,

1569
01:18:33,175 --> 01:18:36,095
Speaker 4: earthquake praying buildings up and down the country, including in

1570
01:18:36,175 --> 01:18:38,455
Speaker 4: some zones that are you know, we think, according to

1571
01:18:38,495 --> 01:18:42,135
Speaker 4: the current science less seismically active, a huge opportunity cost

1572
01:18:42,295 --> 01:18:45,375
Speaker 4: be it in the big cities, with Wellington being you know,

1573
01:18:45,535 --> 01:18:48,495
Speaker 4: in danger of becoming a ghost town, but also you know,

1574
01:18:48,615 --> 01:18:51,295
Speaker 4: smaller regional centers we're a very high proportion of buildings

1575
01:18:51,335 --> 01:18:54,055
Speaker 4: are both heritage listed but also earthquake prain and which

1576
01:18:54,175 --> 01:18:56,895
Speaker 4: is no realistic prospect on the current settings then anything

1577
01:18:56,935 --> 01:19:00,215
Speaker 4: good will happen there. And we've got a tsunami fel

1578
01:19:00,255 --> 01:19:04,815
Speaker 4: excuse me mixing my natural disaster metaphors of lack of

1579
01:19:04,895 --> 01:19:07,655
Speaker 4: compliance in that space. So we're providing by way of

1580
01:19:07,775 --> 01:19:10,655
Speaker 4: legislation and extra four years at least or you know,

1581
01:19:10,735 --> 01:19:13,175
Speaker 4: four years and then possibility of extra two years for

1582
01:19:13,255 --> 01:19:15,015
Speaker 4: people to get up to stand it. But in the

1583
01:19:15,095 --> 01:19:17,455
Speaker 4: meantime we're also reviewing the rules to see if we

1584
01:19:17,495 --> 01:19:19,255
Speaker 4: can make it a bit easier, a bit more practical,

1585
01:19:19,895 --> 01:19:22,095
Speaker 4: and frankly again more affordable for people to be able

1586
01:19:22,095 --> 01:19:24,575
Speaker 4: to comply in a way that recognizes life safety without

1587
01:19:24,615 --> 01:19:26,335
Speaker 4: imposing extra additional cost.

1588
01:19:26,615 --> 01:19:29,295
Speaker 5: Which sounds risk based rather than just a blanket. Right,

1589
01:19:29,375 --> 01:19:31,135
Speaker 5: You've all got to get to sixty seven percent of

1590
01:19:31,215 --> 01:19:34,215
Speaker 5: new building code something like that, yeah, or new building

1591
01:19:34,255 --> 01:19:43,215
Speaker 5: standing all right, thank you. Last question, Like, I've been

1592
01:19:43,335 --> 01:19:45,895
Speaker 5: involved in the sector for a long time and one

1593
01:19:45,935 --> 01:19:48,215
Speaker 5: of the things that I really enjoy about it is

1594
01:19:48,295 --> 01:19:51,095
Speaker 5: that generally the people that are in it are often

1595
01:19:51,135 --> 01:19:54,495
Speaker 5: really passionate, really engaged. How have you found sort of

1596
01:19:54,575 --> 01:19:57,055
Speaker 5: this extra engagement with the building sector.

1597
01:19:57,415 --> 01:20:00,855
Speaker 3: Exhausting but good? No, I love it, I really do.

1598
01:20:01,495 --> 01:20:06,175
Speaker 4: And my diary is full of different meetings behind closes

1599
01:20:06,495 --> 01:20:09,255
Speaker 4: or conferences with hundreds of people or more of a

1600
01:20:09,775 --> 01:20:12,295
Speaker 4: retail environment I suppose if you want to put it

1601
01:20:12,335 --> 01:20:14,375
Speaker 4: like that, like the home show recently in Auckland, that

1602
01:20:14,455 --> 01:20:17,375
Speaker 4: was a great opportunity to wander around and see what's available,

1603
01:20:17,455 --> 01:20:20,655
Speaker 4: see what people are thinking, and everyone from big you know,

1604
01:20:20,815 --> 01:20:24,975
Speaker 4: really serious players who invest a huge amount of money

1605
01:20:25,055 --> 01:20:28,095
Speaker 4: in make New Zealand a great built environment. And then

1606
01:20:28,575 --> 01:20:31,295
Speaker 4: you know, just to resort to cliche. You know you've

1607
01:20:31,295 --> 01:20:32,895
Speaker 4: allowed me granny flats. I'm going to go with number

1608
01:20:32,935 --> 01:20:36,295
Speaker 4: DA as well. So you know, everyone's everyone's interested, and

1609
01:20:36,495 --> 01:20:37,415
Speaker 4: everyone's got a stake in it.

1610
01:20:37,535 --> 01:20:39,255
Speaker 3: And if you talk about the.

1611
01:20:39,335 --> 01:20:42,855
Speaker 4: Number of people employed directly and directly GDP percentage likewise.

1612
01:20:43,095 --> 01:20:44,335
Speaker 4: But then of course you say, well, we all have

1613
01:20:44,335 --> 01:20:47,095
Speaker 4: gotten in trust because we all live in the built environment.

1614
01:20:47,135 --> 01:20:50,215
Speaker 4: We work, live and play in places that people have built.

1615
01:20:50,295 --> 01:20:52,655
Speaker 4: So it's easy to be passionate and it's easy to

1616
01:20:53,535 --> 01:20:55,495
Speaker 4: get that from those who are doing the work. So

1617
01:20:55,775 --> 01:20:57,015
Speaker 4: that's what I really enjoy about it.

1618
01:20:57,775 --> 01:20:59,575
Speaker 5: Mister Chris Pink, thank you very much for your time.

1619
01:20:59,975 --> 01:21:03,015
Speaker 5: Thank you your news talk set. But you we're back

1620
01:21:03,095 --> 01:21:05,135
Speaker 5: straight after News Sport and we're the top of the

1621
01:21:05,215 --> 01:21:11,335
Speaker 5: hour at seven at eight o'clock. Oh maybe we have

1622
01:21:11,375 --> 01:21:13,455
Speaker 5: to go for a little bit longer, so Chris Pink,

1623
01:21:13,495 --> 01:21:17,655
Speaker 5: the minister was with us, and we'll take some calls

1624
01:21:17,735 --> 01:21:21,695
Speaker 5: and some discussion on that straight after the news as well.

1625
01:21:21,735 --> 01:21:25,215
Speaker 5: A couple of really good texts that have come in already.

1626
01:21:28,255 --> 01:21:31,095
Speaker 5: Where have we got some? Oh and also, by the way,

1627
01:21:31,215 --> 01:21:33,175
Speaker 5: all of this is available on the podcast or it

1628
01:21:33,215 --> 01:21:34,815
Speaker 5: will be a little bit later on today. So if

1629
01:21:34,855 --> 01:21:37,695
Speaker 5: there was something in my conversation with the Minister which

1630
01:21:38,615 --> 01:21:40,775
Speaker 5: I'd said beforehand, you know, this is an opportunity to

1631
01:21:40,855 --> 01:21:44,175
Speaker 5: sort of stretch our legs and discuss at some depth

1632
01:21:44,295 --> 01:21:46,895
Speaker 5: and with a little bit of time some of these

1633
01:21:46,975 --> 01:21:49,455
Speaker 5: really important issues, because I think one of the frustrations

1634
01:21:49,495 --> 01:21:53,095
Speaker 5: with people in the building sector when we're involved in

1635
01:21:53,175 --> 01:21:56,495
Speaker 5: sort of you know, public discussion about this, particularly around news,

1636
01:21:57,335 --> 01:22:00,815
Speaker 5: there's no criticism of news. We're always trying to explain

1637
01:22:00,895 --> 01:22:03,735
Speaker 5: something that's really really complicated in a very short period

1638
01:22:03,775 --> 01:22:06,095
Speaker 5: of time and that's not that easy to do. So

1639
01:22:06,295 --> 01:22:09,335
Speaker 5: I think in this instance here it was a great

1640
01:22:09,335 --> 01:22:12,735
Speaker 5: opportunity to allow him the space to explain what they're

1641
01:22:12,815 --> 01:22:15,615
Speaker 5: trying to do him as the minister, they as the government,

1642
01:22:15,655 --> 01:22:19,295
Speaker 5: as the coalition government, and that was I found quite

1643
01:22:19,375 --> 01:22:21,335
Speaker 5: useful and I was thinking, well, I was listening to

1644
01:22:21,375 --> 01:22:23,855
Speaker 5: the interview, it might be an opportunity to also go

1645
01:22:23,935 --> 01:22:26,535
Speaker 5: along and get Chrissip to join us on the show

1646
01:22:26,655 --> 01:22:28,215
Speaker 5: at some stage as well. So I'll see if I

1647
01:22:28,255 --> 01:22:30,695
Speaker 5: can organize that for you at some stage. But if

1648
01:22:30,695 --> 01:22:34,295
Speaker 5: you'd like to listen back to that interview, it will

1649
01:22:34,375 --> 01:22:37,935
Speaker 5: be available on the news Talk ZB website and the podcast,

1650
01:22:38,575 --> 01:22:42,615
Speaker 5: or it will be available as on iHeartRadio as well,

1651
01:22:42,695 --> 01:22:44,895
Speaker 5: but certainly it'll be up a little bit later on

1652
01:22:45,095 --> 01:22:48,455
Speaker 5: Today Your News Talk ZEDB. We got news, sport and weather,

1653
01:22:49,735 --> 01:22:52,335
Speaker 5: Your News Talk SB. Welcome back to the program. My

1654
01:22:52,415 --> 01:22:54,975
Speaker 5: name's Pete wolf Camp, Resident Builder. This is a show

1655
01:22:55,135 --> 01:22:58,895
Speaker 5: all about building and construction and projects that you might

1656
01:22:58,975 --> 01:23:02,455
Speaker 5: get underway or that are underway that aren't going particularly well.

1657
01:23:02,615 --> 01:23:07,775
Speaker 5: Possibly some issues, challenges, legislation, anything to do with building

1658
01:23:07,855 --> 01:23:10,015
Speaker 5: and construction. We can talk about that on the show

1659
01:23:10,255 --> 01:23:12,535
Speaker 5: for at least the next twenty two minutes. Then we're

1660
01:23:12,575 --> 01:23:14,815
Speaker 5: going to jump into the garden with Rod climb Pasta

1661
01:23:15,775 --> 01:23:17,975
Speaker 5: from eight thirty this morning. So if you've got any

1662
01:23:18,055 --> 01:23:22,135
Speaker 5: gardening or entomological questions, anything about the wonderful world of bugs,

1663
01:23:22,335 --> 01:23:24,735
Speaker 5: then we can talk to rud about that from eight

1664
01:23:24,855 --> 01:23:27,455
Speaker 5: thirty this morning. But right now the lines are open.

1665
01:23:27,575 --> 01:23:30,135
Speaker 5: The number to call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

1666
01:23:30,775 --> 01:23:34,135
Speaker 5: In the last hour of the program, my apologies seem

1667
01:23:34,175 --> 01:23:35,975
Speaker 5: to be a bit of a technical issue just right

1668
01:23:35,975 --> 01:23:39,575
Speaker 5: at the end of the show. There I had the opportunity.

1669
01:23:39,575 --> 01:23:43,815
Speaker 5: I reached out a little while ago to the Ministry

1670
01:23:43,895 --> 01:23:48,215
Speaker 5: for Building Construction and to the Minister Chris Pink and said, look,

1671
01:23:48,255 --> 01:23:50,735
Speaker 5: it'd be really nice to be able to get the

1672
01:23:50,815 --> 01:23:52,575
Speaker 5: Minister to come in and have a bit of a chat,

1673
01:23:53,335 --> 01:23:55,695
Speaker 5: and in the end their invitation was, well, look we

1674
01:23:55,815 --> 01:23:58,335
Speaker 5: can the minister will come in come into the studio

1675
01:23:58,375 --> 01:24:01,175
Speaker 5: on a Thursday, we had a conversation. Replayed that conversation

1676
01:24:01,335 --> 01:24:03,335
Speaker 5: to you just a little while ago. If you want

1677
01:24:03,375 --> 01:24:05,095
Speaker 5: to go back and listen to it, it will be

1678
01:24:05,255 --> 01:24:08,535
Speaker 5: up as a podcast are in the day, because certainly

1679
01:24:08,615 --> 01:24:10,615
Speaker 5: there was a lot of detail in it, and my

1680
01:24:10,735 --> 01:24:15,455
Speaker 5: intention with the interview with the conversation was that we

1681
01:24:15,535 --> 01:24:19,455
Speaker 5: would have time to discuss things that are not easily

1682
01:24:19,575 --> 01:24:22,295
Speaker 5: dealt with in sound bites. Nothing wrong with sound bites,

1683
01:24:22,335 --> 01:24:25,935
Speaker 5: they're really important, obviously, but sometimes these things take a

1684
01:24:25,975 --> 01:24:28,135
Speaker 5: little bit of time to discuss. So a couple of

1685
01:24:28,215 --> 01:24:30,095
Speaker 5: really interesting things for me that came out of it,

1686
01:24:30,215 --> 01:24:33,135
Speaker 5: certainly the discussion around perhaps having a look at the

1687
01:24:33,735 --> 01:24:38,055
Speaker 5: usefulness of the schedule method. Just if you're wondering what

1688
01:24:38,375 --> 01:24:41,175
Speaker 5: that is all about. There is basically three ways to

1689
01:24:41,375 --> 01:24:44,935
Speaker 5: prove compliance with the H one regulations. H one is

1690
01:24:45,415 --> 01:24:48,215
Speaker 5: all about energy efficiency in our buildings, and the reason

1691
01:24:48,255 --> 01:24:50,735
Speaker 5: that we want our buildings to be more energy efficient

1692
01:24:51,335 --> 01:24:53,535
Speaker 5: is that it costs a lot to heat them and

1693
01:24:53,655 --> 01:24:55,735
Speaker 5: it uses a great deal of energy. So if we

1694
01:24:55,855 --> 01:24:59,135
Speaker 5: can make them more energy efficient, one of those ways

1695
01:24:59,175 --> 01:25:02,695
Speaker 5: is by increasing the insulation standards and the performance level

1696
01:25:02,775 --> 01:25:05,615
Speaker 5: of the houses, we will reduce energy costs in the future.

1697
01:25:06,535 --> 01:25:10,615
Speaker 5: We're already in an energy crisis right now. Then you

1698
01:25:10,695 --> 01:25:13,175
Speaker 5: can understand why that's actually a really important thing to do.

1699
01:25:13,815 --> 01:25:16,575
Speaker 5: And then there are other benefits like warm, dry, comfortable.

1700
01:25:16,695 --> 01:25:19,015
Speaker 5: That's a really good thing. And so if you're sitting

1701
01:25:19,055 --> 01:25:22,895
Speaker 5: there designing house, you kind of have three broad options

1702
01:25:23,015 --> 01:25:28,895
Speaker 5: to calculate the energy usage or the insulation requirements for

1703
01:25:28,935 --> 01:25:31,935
Speaker 5: the house. So there is the schedule method, which is

1704
01:25:32,055 --> 01:25:35,095
Speaker 5: essentially a tick box approach, right, and in the schedule

1705
01:25:35,175 --> 01:25:38,815
Speaker 5: method it got changed recently. So the standard for ceiling

1706
01:25:38,895 --> 01:25:43,295
Speaker 5: insulation across all of the country, every basically every type

1707
01:25:43,335 --> 01:25:46,455
Speaker 5: of house is R six point six. Now that's about

1708
01:25:46,615 --> 01:25:48,895
Speaker 5: almost three hundred millimeters of insulation that you need to

1709
01:25:48,935 --> 01:25:53,015
Speaker 5: get into the ceiling. And then the walls changed marginally

1710
01:25:53,575 --> 01:25:57,935
Speaker 5: to all around R two R two point zero. Now

1711
01:25:58,135 --> 01:26:00,895
Speaker 5: R six point six is a lot of insulation. And

1712
01:26:01,455 --> 01:26:05,135
Speaker 5: there is a law of diminishing returns in terms of insulation,

1713
01:26:05,295 --> 01:26:07,455
Speaker 5: and I think it tops out around four point eight,

1714
01:26:07,935 --> 01:26:10,655
Speaker 5: So anything above that is not actually giving you much benefit,

1715
01:26:10,775 --> 01:26:12,975
Speaker 5: but for some reason it's there. In the schedule method

1716
01:26:13,335 --> 01:26:15,535
Speaker 5: so if you just want to design a house using

1717
01:26:15,655 --> 01:26:17,535
Speaker 5: just the schedule method, you end up with our six

1718
01:26:17,615 --> 01:26:19,775
Speaker 5: point six and the ceiling. Now, if you go to

1719
01:26:20,015 --> 01:26:25,095
Speaker 5: the calculation method, which is where you do calculation of

1720
01:26:25,455 --> 01:26:29,135
Speaker 5: size of windows, type of walls, type of roof, insulation, orientation,

1721
01:26:29,295 --> 01:26:31,495
Speaker 5: all of these sorts of things, you can arrive at

1722
01:26:31,575 --> 01:26:34,095
Speaker 5: some different figures and you might find using the calculation

1723
01:26:34,215 --> 01:26:36,975
Speaker 5: method that in fact you can comply with the code

1724
01:26:37,215 --> 01:26:41,215
Speaker 5: and have ceiling insulation. Pick a number R four right now,

1725
01:26:41,295 --> 01:26:44,495
Speaker 5: it's a lot different to our six point six. Then

1726
01:26:44,535 --> 01:26:47,975
Speaker 5: the next step up is that you do modeling, which

1727
01:26:48,055 --> 01:26:50,855
Speaker 5: is slightly more complicated and more involved. It'll give you

1728
01:26:50,975 --> 01:26:54,455
Speaker 5: a much more nuanced look at the building, but it

1729
01:26:54,615 --> 01:26:58,575
Speaker 5: is in terms of its success, accessibility, and its cost,

1730
01:26:58,735 --> 01:27:02,055
Speaker 5: it is considerably more expensive and it's done by people

1731
01:27:02,575 --> 01:27:05,255
Speaker 5: who are I suppose it's a higher level of analysis, right,

1732
01:27:05,335 --> 01:27:09,215
Speaker 5: So not many peopeople will use the modeling method. Interestingly enough,

1733
01:27:09,255 --> 01:27:12,055
Speaker 5: when I was at the conference New Zealand Institute of

1734
01:27:12,055 --> 01:27:15,175
Speaker 5: Building Surveys Conference yesterday, I was in Wellington on Friday

1735
01:27:15,215 --> 01:27:20,415
Speaker 5: and Saturday, I was chatting with someone who does this modeling. Right,

1736
01:27:20,535 --> 01:27:24,015
Speaker 5: the modeling and the calculation and I had thought that.

1737
01:27:24,375 --> 01:27:26,375
Speaker 5: You know that one of the reasons we kept the

1738
01:27:26,415 --> 01:27:30,095
Speaker 5: schedule method is it made doing these calculations H one's

1739
01:27:30,135 --> 01:27:34,495
Speaker 5: compliance accessible because the cost of doing either the calculation

1740
01:27:34,655 --> 01:27:38,695
Speaker 5: or the modeling was prohibitive. Anyway, were chatting away, he goes,

1741
01:27:39,015 --> 01:27:41,535
Speaker 5: we can do and we do the calculation method for

1742
01:27:41,615 --> 01:27:46,135
Speaker 5: a new home six to seven hundred dollars. Now that's

1743
01:27:47,055 --> 01:27:49,295
Speaker 5: in the scope of building a house and going through

1744
01:27:49,375 --> 01:27:52,415
Speaker 5: design and compliance and all the rest of it. That's

1745
01:27:52,575 --> 01:27:57,735
Speaker 5: not an unaffordable amount of money. And I think knowing

1746
01:27:57,895 --> 01:28:02,095
Speaker 5: that adds weight to my suggestion than in fact the

1747
01:28:02,135 --> 01:28:06,415
Speaker 5: schedule method. I it just dump it right, Just get

1748
01:28:06,495 --> 01:28:09,135
Speaker 5: rid of the schedule method. Make sure that every single

1749
01:28:09,175 --> 01:28:12,015
Speaker 5: house is calculated or modeled, and the calculation cost is

1750
01:28:12,135 --> 01:28:15,295
Speaker 5: not that great, and it's not indecipherable, and it's not

1751
01:28:15,495 --> 01:28:17,535
Speaker 5: hard to do. That's where I would come from. Oh,

1752
01:28:17,575 --> 01:28:19,575
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.

1753
01:28:20,255 --> 01:28:24,975
Speaker 5: I got a bunch of texts about this. Let me

1754
01:28:25,175 --> 01:28:32,335
Speaker 5: just read one, which was an interesting one. Here we

1755
01:28:32,415 --> 01:28:35,255
Speaker 5: go listening to your interview with the building minister. My

1756
01:28:35,415 --> 01:28:37,575
Speaker 5: question to you after that is ten he knows what

1757
01:28:37,655 --> 01:28:39,735
Speaker 5: he's talking about. One, he's faking it till he makes

1758
01:28:39,775 --> 01:28:45,255
Speaker 5: it from Lee. Look, I actually and I had had

1759
01:28:45,295 --> 01:28:49,015
Speaker 5: this opinion prior to this, because I've met Chris Penk

1760
01:28:49,135 --> 01:28:51,735
Speaker 5: at a couple of different events. I've listened to him

1761
01:28:51,775 --> 01:28:55,335
Speaker 5: speak a few times. I think he's genuinely engaged in

1762
01:28:55,375 --> 01:28:57,735
Speaker 5: the process. I think he's got a pretty good handle

1763
01:28:57,775 --> 01:29:00,895
Speaker 5: on it. I thought that he spoke pretty well about,

1764
01:29:01,175 --> 01:29:03,455
Speaker 5: you know, understanding the difference between the schedule method, the

1765
01:29:03,535 --> 01:29:08,135
Speaker 5: calculation method, the modeling method. So yeah, I don't know

1766
01:29:08,215 --> 01:29:10,095
Speaker 5: whether i'd give him a ranking, but I certainly wouldn't

1767
01:29:10,095 --> 01:29:11,535
Speaker 5: say that he's faking it till he makes it. I

1768
01:29:11,575 --> 01:29:13,815
Speaker 5: think he genuinely knows what he's talking about and is

1769
01:29:14,095 --> 01:29:18,255
Speaker 5: more importantly engaged and wants to learn. And I know

1770
01:29:18,495 --> 01:29:21,975
Speaker 5: from a number of other sources that he's actively been

1771
01:29:22,055 --> 01:29:26,215
Speaker 5: engaged with sitting down with industry groups. Because I missed

1772
01:29:26,255 --> 01:29:27,575
Speaker 5: him and I met him at the New Zealand Green

1773
01:29:27,615 --> 01:29:30,495
Speaker 5: Building Council event at the beginning of the year, the

1774
01:29:30,575 --> 01:29:32,935
Speaker 5: Housing Summit, and I said, look, so you're in you're

1775
01:29:32,975 --> 01:29:35,335
Speaker 5: a new minister. People would be getting in your ear

1776
01:29:35,535 --> 01:29:38,375
Speaker 5: every day. How do you know who to listen to?

1777
01:29:38,735 --> 01:29:41,575
Speaker 5: That was anyway we've got a long and lengthy discussion

1778
01:29:41,615 --> 01:29:44,695
Speaker 5: on exactly that RDIO. Let's get back amongst it. Oh,

1779
01:29:44,775 --> 01:29:47,295
Speaker 5: eight hundred and eighty, ten eighty. We take building calls

1780
01:29:47,375 --> 01:29:49,935
Speaker 5: until eight thirty. Then we're into the garden with redcloinb

1781
01:29:49,975 --> 01:29:53,015
Speaker 5: passed Catherine, Good morning, Good.

1782
01:29:52,935 --> 01:29:59,375
Speaker 11: Morning, Pete. I've got a situation where a builder has

1783
01:29:59,455 --> 01:30:04,695
Speaker 11: built well, developer has built three houses next to mine. Yes,

1784
01:30:05,055 --> 01:30:09,575
Speaker 11: and of four year years now without offense, he took

1785
01:30:09,655 --> 01:30:12,695
Speaker 11: down the fence to develop his property. He keeps saying,

1786
01:30:14,975 --> 01:30:18,295
Speaker 11: put it out, But it's been four years now, how

1787
01:30:18,375 --> 01:30:20,775
Speaker 11: long can I go? Should I go without a fence?

1788
01:30:20,855 --> 01:30:23,895
Speaker 11: And I'm totally exposed to the three property more than

1789
01:30:23,975 --> 01:30:25,375
Speaker 11: lacking privacy now.

1790
01:30:26,375 --> 01:30:30,895
Speaker 5: Which is a bit frustrating. And I say this with

1791
01:30:31,735 --> 01:30:36,375
Speaker 5: genuine kindness, I suppose, and hindsight's always twenty twenty, right.

1792
01:30:36,815 --> 01:30:39,135
Speaker 5: What would have been quite good when the developer first

1793
01:30:39,215 --> 01:30:43,135
Speaker 5: approached you is to get in writing a promise from

1794
01:30:43,335 --> 01:30:46,695
Speaker 5: the developer to replace the fence by a certain date, right,

1795
01:30:48,255 --> 01:30:51,695
Speaker 5: and then you could have you know, it's quite reasonable

1796
01:30:51,735 --> 01:30:54,055
Speaker 5: in a development to maybe have to remove an existing

1797
01:30:54,175 --> 01:30:56,735
Speaker 5: fence and possibly you'll get one that's better than the

1798
01:30:56,775 --> 01:30:59,015
Speaker 5: old one. All of those sorts of things, you'd put

1799
01:30:59,055 --> 01:31:02,135
Speaker 5: that down in writing. You'd have an agreement and the

1800
01:31:02,255 --> 01:31:05,215
Speaker 5: developer would say, okay, well, look I expect to finish

1801
01:31:05,295 --> 01:31:07,455
Speaker 5: most of my construction by this state. We'll be doing

1802
01:31:07,575 --> 01:31:11,255
Speaker 5: landscaping here. The fence will be in by the state,

1803
01:31:11,415 --> 01:31:13,295
Speaker 5: and then the day after that you can knock on

1804
01:31:13,375 --> 01:31:15,735
Speaker 5: the door and go, hey, you promised that I would

1805
01:31:15,775 --> 01:31:17,855
Speaker 5: have a new fence by the state. Here's the email

1806
01:31:17,935 --> 01:31:20,095
Speaker 5: to back it up. When are you starting the fence?

1807
01:31:20,135 --> 01:31:23,375
Speaker 5: The hard thing is, you know, it's difficult to get leverage. Now,

1808
01:31:25,135 --> 01:31:28,935
Speaker 5: that's the tricky thing saying that. Do you have any

1809
01:31:29,615 --> 01:31:33,695
Speaker 5: evidence of your conversation with the developer promising a new

1810
01:31:33,815 --> 01:31:36,735
Speaker 5: fence at all that you could go back and remind

1811
01:31:36,815 --> 01:31:39,255
Speaker 5: them of, Oh, well.

1812
01:31:39,135 --> 01:31:40,335
Speaker 10: He said it all along.

1813
01:31:40,815 --> 01:31:45,095
Speaker 11: Yeah, I know not Well do I have evidence, well.

1814
01:31:45,495 --> 01:31:48,615
Speaker 5: A text message or you know, did you write a

1815
01:31:48,735 --> 01:31:52,175
Speaker 5: diary note for example, Hey, chatted with the developer and

1816
01:31:52,495 --> 01:31:54,255
Speaker 5: he told me that it would be six months ago,

1817
01:31:54,415 --> 01:31:56,335
Speaker 5: and if that's eighteen months ago, then you could go

1818
01:31:56,455 --> 01:32:00,495
Speaker 5: back and remind I just think in these sorts of things, Unfortunately,

1819
01:32:01,415 --> 01:32:04,695
Speaker 5: dealing with developers, you need to get in and writing.

1820
01:32:04,855 --> 01:32:05,375
Speaker 12: You need to.

1821
01:32:07,015 --> 01:32:08,895
Speaker 5: You know, have something that you can go back and

1822
01:32:09,255 --> 01:32:10,455
Speaker 5: sort of provide evidence of.

1823
01:32:10,615 --> 01:32:15,775
Speaker 11: Really, but I mean it's four years surely a leg

1824
01:32:15,895 --> 01:32:17,255
Speaker 11: to stand on over time.

1825
01:32:17,855 --> 01:32:20,855
Speaker 5: I'm just not sure where you would go legally, you know,

1826
01:32:20,975 --> 01:32:24,055
Speaker 5: because if nothing was written down, if no promises were made,

1827
01:32:25,095 --> 01:32:25,815
Speaker 5: I'm you know.

1828
01:32:28,255 --> 01:32:30,735
Speaker 11: But but you know, he has taken out my fense.

1829
01:32:30,815 --> 01:32:34,295
Speaker 11: And it's about the trees that I said these are

1830
01:32:34,375 --> 01:32:37,095
Speaker 11: to be left, but he took them out. But yeah, no, no,

1831
01:32:37,255 --> 01:32:39,775
Speaker 11: I didn't get anything in writing. I trusted him. Well,

1832
01:32:39,775 --> 01:32:40,375
Speaker 11: I wouldn't you.

1833
01:32:42,615 --> 01:32:46,015
Speaker 5: To be fair when it comes to construction. Have a

1834
01:32:46,135 --> 01:32:50,255
Speaker 5: healthy skepticism, right, get everything in writing?

1835
01:32:51,775 --> 01:32:53,735
Speaker 11: Oh well I should have taken the advice of my mother.

1836
01:32:53,895 --> 01:32:54,615
Speaker 11: Trust no one.

1837
01:32:55,255 --> 01:32:59,495
Speaker 5: It's not about not trusting people. It's just about being

1838
01:32:59,535 --> 01:33:03,655
Speaker 5: a bit pragmatic, I guess, and a healthy skepticism of

1839
01:33:03,775 --> 01:33:07,695
Speaker 5: human nature is the way that I put it. But look,

1840
01:33:07,895 --> 01:33:10,735
Speaker 5: I think you know you might find you might find

1841
01:33:10,735 --> 01:33:13,855
Speaker 5: that you have some redress under the Fencing Act, and

1842
01:33:14,135 --> 01:33:17,375
Speaker 5: so that's probably your next best bet is to just

1843
01:33:17,495 --> 01:33:19,175
Speaker 5: have a read through a little bit of this stuff

1844
01:33:19,175 --> 01:33:22,535
Speaker 5: around the Fencing Act, write a letter saying, hey, look

1845
01:33:22,615 --> 01:33:25,415
Speaker 5: you did on this date remove the fence you did

1846
01:33:25,495 --> 01:33:28,215
Speaker 5: promise me under the Fencing Act. I'm now serving you

1847
01:33:28,295 --> 01:33:30,215
Speaker 5: with a notice that you have this amount of time

1848
01:33:30,335 --> 01:33:33,215
Speaker 5: to reinstate it, given that you removed it. Try that

1849
01:33:34,135 --> 01:33:37,295
Speaker 5: so quote the Fencing Act. Quote the Fencing Act. See

1850
01:33:37,295 --> 01:33:40,375
Speaker 5: if that gets some action. All the best you, Catherine,

1851
01:33:40,495 --> 01:33:43,095
Speaker 5: You take care, all the very best. Hello Lucy.

1852
01:33:44,175 --> 01:33:44,415
Speaker 11: Hello.

1853
01:33:46,335 --> 01:33:46,775
Speaker 1: I have.

1854
01:33:48,375 --> 01:33:53,255
Speaker 16: Neighbors who have two downpipes from the guttering yep, going

1855
01:33:53,455 --> 01:33:54,935
Speaker 16: straight down to the ground.

1856
01:33:55,375 --> 01:33:55,535
Speaker 5: Yep.

1857
01:33:56,135 --> 01:34:00,575
Speaker 16: There's no The water is not vented anywhere except to

1858
01:34:00,655 --> 01:34:04,815
Speaker 16: the concrete, and of course it flows under the fence,

1859
01:34:05,735 --> 01:34:08,975
Speaker 16: which the whole piece from the corner of their house

1860
01:34:09,615 --> 01:34:16,335
Speaker 16: down towards their front lawn is concrete, right, And my concrete,

1861
01:34:16,495 --> 01:34:19,415
Speaker 16: which is sort of laid in large squares, is now

1862
01:34:19,575 --> 01:34:22,415
Speaker 16: sinking right right.

1863
01:34:23,575 --> 01:34:27,255
Speaker 5: In terms of the property law, it is the responsibility

1864
01:34:27,295 --> 01:34:31,335
Speaker 5: of the homeowner to control stormwater discharge from their property. Right,

1865
01:34:31,495 --> 01:34:36,455
Speaker 5: So they are technically in breach of that. And you

1866
01:34:36,615 --> 01:34:39,735
Speaker 5: could go to council and ask counsel to come out

1867
01:34:39,975 --> 01:34:43,415
Speaker 5: and have a look at that, and they may issue

1868
01:34:43,575 --> 01:34:44,655
Speaker 5: a notice to fix.

1869
01:34:45,935 --> 01:34:46,135
Speaker 8: Yes.

1870
01:34:47,535 --> 01:34:49,215
Speaker 9: Yeah, so that's the best.

1871
01:34:50,975 --> 01:34:55,335
Speaker 16: When the extension was first done, there was a garden

1872
01:34:55,975 --> 01:35:01,575
Speaker 16: along the side of their house right, and the original

1873
01:35:01,695 --> 01:35:06,655
Speaker 16: owners put the gutter water down the pipe, there goes

1874
01:35:06,935 --> 01:35:11,575
Speaker 16: the event to the toilet. Yeah, but they had to

1875
01:35:11,775 --> 01:35:14,415
Speaker 16: change that when the house was sold, and that's why

1876
01:35:15,175 --> 01:35:17,175
Speaker 16: for the last it's been years.

1877
01:35:18,335 --> 01:35:19,415
Speaker 12: But it's.

1878
01:35:21,135 --> 01:35:25,735
Speaker 16: Now I'm on my own. You notice the place is yeah.

1879
01:35:25,695 --> 01:35:28,135
Speaker 5: No, and no look at it. And it's really really

1880
01:35:28,215 --> 01:35:32,695
Speaker 5: frustrating when a neighbor, you know, blatantly disregards the requirements

1881
01:35:32,735 --> 01:35:35,335
Speaker 5: around stormwater and it becomes a nuisance to you. But

1882
01:35:35,895 --> 01:35:38,495
Speaker 5: I would say, maybe if you've got the opportunity next

1883
01:35:38,535 --> 01:35:40,575
Speaker 5: time we have some decent heavy rain and you see

1884
01:35:40,615 --> 01:35:42,935
Speaker 5: that flooding coming to your place, just take a quick

1885
01:35:42,935 --> 01:35:44,495
Speaker 5: photograph of that and then.

1886
01:35:45,415 --> 01:35:46,335
Speaker 15: Go to the.

1887
01:35:49,495 --> 01:35:53,855
Speaker 16: But I've deleted them, okay because I spoke. I did

1888
01:35:53,975 --> 01:35:58,855
Speaker 16: speak to him, yeah and oh yeah, yeah, okay, but

1889
01:35:59,055 --> 01:35:59,895
Speaker 16: nothing's happened.

1890
01:36:00,055 --> 01:36:04,175
Speaker 5: Yeah. No time to get counsel involved, Lucy, Yes, time

1891
01:36:04,255 --> 01:36:06,855
Speaker 5: to get counsel. Let us, let us show how you

1892
01:36:06,935 --> 01:36:09,735
Speaker 5: get on and hopefully counsel will be helpful in this

1893
01:36:09,855 --> 01:36:14,095
Speaker 5: particular instance. Good luck with that. It is eight twenty

1894
01:36:14,215 --> 01:36:17,815
Speaker 5: here at news Stalk SB. There's never been a more

1895
01:36:17,855 --> 01:36:21,055
Speaker 5: affordable time to invest in solar power for your home,

1896
01:36:21,655 --> 01:36:23,815
Speaker 5: get the solar power that you want in a bundle

1897
01:36:23,895 --> 01:36:27,335
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1898
01:36:27,535 --> 01:36:32,415
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1899
01:36:32,455 --> 01:36:37,215
Speaker 5: good we inverter plus full installation plus EARN one hundred

1900
01:36:37,215 --> 01:36:39,815
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1901
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1902
01:36:43,135 --> 01:36:47,535
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1903
01:36:47,735 --> 01:36:50,415
Speaker 5: team and high quality products will make sure that they're

1904
01:36:50,495 --> 01:36:52,655
Speaker 5: with you every step of the way so you can

1905
01:36:52,735 --> 01:36:56,295
Speaker 5: get on with slashing your electricity bills from day one.

1906
01:36:56,935 --> 01:37:00,575
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1907
01:37:00,695 --> 01:37:03,975
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1908
01:37:04,095 --> 01:37:08,135
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1909
01:37:08,495 --> 01:37:12,015
Speaker 5: Head to Life for Soolar dot co dot nz to

1910
01:37:12,095 --> 01:37:16,175
Speaker 5: find out more. Tea's and c's apply right o your

1911
01:37:16,215 --> 01:37:18,495
Speaker 5: news stork ZB We're a couple more calls before we

1912
01:37:18,615 --> 01:37:21,615
Speaker 5: go to the garden and we'll jump in with redclimb pass.

1913
01:37:21,655 --> 01:37:24,135
Speaker 5: But Cindy, you've got a bit of an issue with

1914
01:37:24,175 --> 01:37:24,615
Speaker 5: an LBP.

1915
01:37:26,335 --> 01:37:29,895
Speaker 12: Yeah, so we've had a bit of a journey with

1916
01:37:30,335 --> 01:37:36,015
Speaker 12: an LPP builder, and we contracted this guy to build

1917
01:37:36,055 --> 01:37:40,615
Speaker 12: a minor dwelling on our property. And he came in

1918
01:37:41,055 --> 01:37:44,295
Speaker 12: and he started building, and we got to the cloding

1919
01:37:44,415 --> 01:37:48,735
Speaker 12: stage and the claud my husband sort of looked at

1920
01:37:48,735 --> 01:37:53,335
Speaker 12: the clouding and thought, that doesn't look right. And interestingly,

1921
01:37:53,455 --> 01:37:56,015
Speaker 12: their clouding came with a full booklet on how it

1922
01:37:56,175 --> 01:38:00,575
Speaker 12: needed to be, how it needed to be put up. Anyway,

1923
01:38:01,055 --> 01:38:04,135
Speaker 12: my husband called the council, he killed it, called another

1924
01:38:04,215 --> 01:38:07,375
Speaker 12: builder and the architect, and they all came up and said, no,

1925
01:38:07,615 --> 01:38:12,255
Speaker 12: this is cowboy, and it got a complete fail. So

1926
01:38:12,415 --> 01:38:14,215
Speaker 12: we went back to the builder and said, you know,

1927
01:38:14,455 --> 01:38:16,415
Speaker 12: we need all new cludding. It's going to be all

1928
01:38:16,455 --> 01:38:19,495
Speaker 12: put up, and he basically said, I'm not coming back.

1929
01:38:19,575 --> 01:38:23,855
Speaker 12: Find another builder. But you know, interestingly, at the very beginning,

1930
01:38:24,135 --> 01:38:27,255
Speaker 12: we had signed a contract, we had done all the

1931
01:38:27,415 --> 01:38:31,335
Speaker 12: right things, and we were giving him, you know, gradual

1932
01:38:31,415 --> 01:38:36,295
Speaker 12: payment throughout the project. And what ended up happening and

1933
01:38:36,375 --> 01:38:39,335
Speaker 12: this is what I don't understand, Like, you know, you

1934
01:38:39,455 --> 01:38:43,015
Speaker 12: get to this point and it feels like there's no

1935
01:38:43,215 --> 01:38:47,255
Speaker 12: recourse because he didn't come back. We had to find

1936
01:38:47,295 --> 01:38:52,255
Speaker 12: another builder and he owed us seventy thousand dollars, and

1937
01:38:53,575 --> 01:38:55,895
Speaker 12: you know, in the end, we went to a solicitor

1938
01:38:55,975 --> 01:38:59,055
Speaker 12: who drew up, well, his solicitor actually drew up a

1939
01:38:59,335 --> 01:39:02,495
Speaker 12: settlement that we were meant to be paid the money

1940
01:39:02,615 --> 01:39:07,095
Speaker 12: by December last year. But nothing. It's like he knows

1941
01:39:07,455 --> 01:39:09,655
Speaker 12: now we've gone to a deck collector and he's paying

1942
01:39:09,695 --> 01:39:14,575
Speaker 12: house fifty dollars a week. I mean, you know, it's

1943
01:39:14,735 --> 01:39:20,455
Speaker 12: just there just doesn't seem to be like, even when

1944
01:39:20,535 --> 01:39:23,415
Speaker 12: you've done the right thing, it doesn't feel like there's

1945
01:39:23,535 --> 01:39:24,415
Speaker 12: anywhere to turn.

1946
01:39:24,775 --> 01:39:27,535
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the mind of dwelling that you got this

1947
01:39:27,935 --> 01:39:31,975
Speaker 5: LBP to do, did that have a building consent? Did

1948
01:39:32,015 --> 01:39:33,255
Speaker 5: it require a building consent?

1949
01:39:33,415 --> 01:39:33,695
Speaker 3: Okay?

1950
01:39:33,775 --> 01:39:37,335
Speaker 5: So it did require a building consent? Okay, that's interesting.

1951
01:39:37,975 --> 01:39:41,215
Speaker 5: The other thing is have you gone to the disciplinary

1952
01:39:41,295 --> 01:39:43,615
Speaker 5: board of the Licensed Building Practitioner scheme?

1953
01:39:44,415 --> 01:39:47,815
Speaker 12: Well, that's the interesting thing. And what we found out

1954
01:39:47,935 --> 01:39:50,935
Speaker 12: later that this guy had done this before, right, And

1955
01:39:51,895 --> 01:39:55,855
Speaker 12: so what happened was when his solicitor drew up the

1956
01:39:55,935 --> 01:39:59,255
Speaker 12: settlement saying that we'd get all our money by December

1957
01:39:59,375 --> 01:40:02,775
Speaker 12: last year, they had a confidentiality clause in there that

1958
01:40:02,935 --> 01:40:07,335
Speaker 12: we weren't to talk to anybody about it. So sphin king. Oh, well,

1959
01:40:07,495 --> 01:40:09,455
Speaker 12: you know we're going to get our money, so maybe

1960
01:40:09,615 --> 01:40:13,495
Speaker 12: that's okay. Well, I mean, now we're ten months down

1961
01:40:13,575 --> 01:40:15,575
Speaker 12: the track and we still haven't Yeah.

1962
01:40:15,535 --> 01:40:18,615
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, now I wonder do we do that? Yeah,

1963
01:40:18,855 --> 01:40:22,175
Speaker 5: I'm wondering whether because you know, look, lbp's like that

1964
01:40:22,935 --> 01:40:26,015
Speaker 5: really really annoy me, and they bring the entire system

1965
01:40:26,055 --> 01:40:29,095
Speaker 5: into disrepute, right, And so I think name and shame

1966
01:40:29,175 --> 01:40:31,215
Speaker 5: is a good thing. So I don't want you to

1967
01:40:31,255 --> 01:40:33,455
Speaker 5: breach your agreement, but I would go back to your

1968
01:40:33,535 --> 01:40:36,455
Speaker 5: lawyer and maybe say, look, given that no payment or

1969
01:40:36,815 --> 01:40:40,175
Speaker 5: very little payment has been made, we are not going

1970
01:40:40,255 --> 01:40:42,815
Speaker 5: to abide by that non disclosure, and we are going

1971
01:40:42,895 --> 01:40:47,295
Speaker 5: to go to the Licensed Practitioner Board and make a claim.

1972
01:40:47,335 --> 01:40:49,855
Speaker 5: And and I think they would probably uphold it, in

1973
01:40:49,935 --> 01:40:53,335
Speaker 5: which case either he would have his license suspended or

1974
01:40:53,415 --> 01:40:55,975
Speaker 5: would be struck off in some cases. But it will

1975
01:40:56,015 --> 01:40:58,735
Speaker 5: also then become a matter of public record, which I

1976
01:40:58,855 --> 01:41:02,655
Speaker 5: think is really good, so that someone else searching that

1977
01:41:02,815 --> 01:41:07,015
Speaker 5: person's name later will be aware of their pass performance

1978
01:41:07,215 --> 01:41:11,655
Speaker 5: and be warned. Great, but it still leaves you in

1979
01:41:11,735 --> 01:41:16,015
Speaker 5: a really really awkward situation, which is terrible. And you know,

1980
01:41:16,455 --> 01:41:20,775
Speaker 5: I suppose ideally, we'd hope that the LBP registration scheme

1981
01:41:20,895 --> 01:41:24,495
Speaker 5: would prevent this type of thing. That's probably a little

1982
01:41:24,495 --> 01:41:27,775
Speaker 5: bit naive, and in your situation it hasn't, which is

1983
01:41:27,855 --> 01:41:32,215
Speaker 5: really really unfortunate. But look, I think that you should

1984
01:41:32,455 --> 01:41:36,335
Speaker 5: go and take them to the LBP disciplinary board, but

1985
01:41:36,455 --> 01:41:38,415
Speaker 5: you would need to then make sure that you're not

1986
01:41:38,455 --> 01:41:40,695
Speaker 5: getting yourself in legal trouble by doing so.

1987
01:41:41,775 --> 01:41:46,215
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And look, maybe.

1988
01:41:46,135 --> 01:41:49,375
Speaker 5: You know, and now, in the conversation with Chris Pink

1989
01:41:49,415 --> 01:41:51,295
Speaker 5: that we had in the last hour, one of the

1990
01:41:51,375 --> 01:41:53,295
Speaker 5: things that we started to talk about is, you know,

1991
01:41:53,775 --> 01:41:58,175
Speaker 5: should we move away from counsel being responsible right for

1992
01:41:58,255 --> 01:42:00,695
Speaker 5: all of this to a more insurance based one, because

1993
01:42:00,695 --> 01:42:04,175
Speaker 5: if it was in your instance right, and if the

1994
01:42:04,455 --> 01:42:08,775
Speaker 5: LBP had have had proper insurance to cover that work

1995
01:42:09,215 --> 01:42:11,095
Speaker 5: and the work was poor, you could have gone to

1996
01:42:11,175 --> 01:42:13,095
Speaker 5: the insurer and the insurer would have gone, yep, I

1997
01:42:13,215 --> 01:42:16,015
Speaker 5: understand the claim, he is the money up front, right,

1998
01:42:16,175 --> 01:42:20,215
Speaker 5: and then chase the builder for it later. But at

1999
01:42:20,295 --> 01:42:22,615
Speaker 5: least you would get redress and allow you to move

2000
01:42:22,695 --> 01:42:25,015
Speaker 5: on rather than this nonsense of fifty dollars a week.

2001
01:42:25,935 --> 01:42:28,975
Speaker 12: Absolutely, I mean, we you know, we did look at

2002
01:42:29,015 --> 01:42:32,815
Speaker 12: the insurance options right now everything, and it was like no,

2003
01:42:33,135 --> 01:42:34,295
Speaker 12: just a complete dead end.

2004
01:42:34,575 --> 01:42:38,015
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, hey, thanks for bringing that to our attention,

2005
01:42:38,095 --> 01:42:39,535
Speaker 5: and please let me know how you get on. And

2006
01:42:39,615 --> 01:42:41,975
Speaker 5: I really do think if you can take it to

2007
01:42:42,095 --> 01:42:45,055
Speaker 5: the disciplinary board, I think it's a really good idea. Right,

2008
01:42:45,095 --> 01:42:47,015
Speaker 5: we're going to jump into the garden now. Just before

2009
01:42:47,055 --> 01:42:49,415
Speaker 5: I do, I got this lovely text from Marie earlier

2010
01:42:49,455 --> 01:42:53,455
Speaker 5: on Dear mister Wolfcamp, my husband Ray, it's his sixty

2011
01:42:53,615 --> 01:42:57,015
Speaker 5: fifth birthday today. Could you please send out a greeting.

2012
01:42:57,415 --> 01:43:01,055
Speaker 5: He's a huge fan of News Talks dB, especially as

2013
01:43:01,095 --> 01:43:03,455
Speaker 5: it happens myself and Rudd. And then she says, tod

2014
01:43:03,615 --> 01:43:09,375
Speaker 5: sense from Marie. So Ray, very very happy sixty fifth birthday.

2015
01:43:09,655 --> 01:43:11,175
Speaker 5: Enjoy that, Buddy Gold card mate.

2016
01:43:12,295 --> 01:43:15,175
Speaker 1: For more from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp, listen

2017
01:43:15,335 --> 01:43:18,055
Speaker 1: live to News Talks' b on Sunday mornings from six,

2018
01:43:18,415 --> 01:43:20,455
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio