1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm huddles with me this evening. David Pharaoh of Kiwi

2
00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,400
Speaker 1: Blog and Curie at the Polling Company, and Gareth Hughes,

3
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: director of the Well Being Economy Alliance al Seattle and

4
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,639
Speaker 1: former Green MP. Hello you two.

5
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:09,559
Speaker 2: Hello?

6
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 3: You got record to it?

7
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:11,039
Speaker 2: Okay?

8
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,440
Speaker 1: David? I don't love it? What about you?

9
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,119
Speaker 2: I can understand why the police at the time thought

10
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,040
Speaker 2: it was a good idea. This was a story of

11
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,159
Speaker 2: global interests. Have been stories all about it because it

12
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,920
Speaker 2: was about like a guy hiding in the bush for

13
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 2: not weeks, but months, but years with his kids. But

14
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,200
Speaker 2: the story moved on, it became darker. The kids were

15
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,920
Speaker 2: helping the father do criminal ax. There's a suppressed stuff

16
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 2: that ended in a shooting. So what will I think?

17
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,160
Speaker 2: Quite a defensible idea at the time, which is there's

18
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 2: global interest in there's a chance for the police to

19
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,199
Speaker 2: to Lot God, was quite defensible, But the way it

20
00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 2: went in the last couple of years, certainly, if I

21
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 2: was there, I would have been saying, Lot, could we

22
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 2: just drop this because this isn't now something you really

23
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 2: want to be making a film about.

24
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tend to agree with him. What do you think, Gareth?

25
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

26
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 3: I agree with David. I mean, the police haven't really

27
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 3: been upfront, like, where's the public interest in this? How

28
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 3: the kids interest being served by this? Is there a

29
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 3: risk that this just turns into a bit of a

30
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 3: folk hero story where Franklin, not a particularly great guy,

31
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,920
Speaker 3: has put on a bit of a pedestal internationally, and

32
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 3: then Shanera is a really interesting point. Is this simply

33
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 3: going to be a pr exercise where the police are

34
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,959
Speaker 3: vetting and basically getting what they want of the narrative

35
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,679
Speaker 3: out on the record. So look, I enjoyed the White

36
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 3: Islands Netflix documentary. I thought that was pretty well done.

37
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 3: But you know, given the subject matter and the kids involved,

38
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,640
Speaker 3: I'm not entirely sure this will be the same case.

39
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 1: What do you make just talking about the surcharge band,

40
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 1: which has been We've been covering this for a few

41
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 1: months on the show, David, What do you make of

42
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 1: labor coming to save the thing at the last minute.

43
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 2: Oh, I hadn't tacked up on that, But if they are,

44
00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,240
Speaker 2: I'm glad because I actually do think this is thing

45
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 2: you need and the reason for it. And I've got

46
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 2: a background telcom industry. They used to have these mobile

47
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 2: termination rates where they would charge your outrageous fees to

48
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 2: each other and the actual cost is close to zero. Now,

49
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,519
Speaker 2: all these sew challenges are crap because the reason they're

50
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,520
Speaker 2: crap is a thousand dollars transaction cost the people providing

51
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,480
Speaker 2: the electronics the same as a one cent transaction. So

52
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,640
Speaker 2: there's no economic rationale to be charging two or three

53
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 2: percent of the transaction cos And what I liked about

54
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,160
Speaker 2: the proposed band we'll see if it happened, is it

55
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 2: would pot downwards pressure on the f cost people to

56
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,640
Speaker 2: actually have more reasonable charges when you can just pass

57
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 2: them on. Yeah, of course you got to keep them

58
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 2: at three percent awaver.

59
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: Again, Yeah, David, as soon as you understand the stuff.

60
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 1: What Arena Williams from Laborer is saying is she would

61
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,320
Speaker 1: support it. But as long as it's not the retailers

62
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,640
Speaker 1: who are wearing the cost but the banks that wear

63
00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 1: the cost themselves, is that possible?

64
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:05,359
Speaker 2: Ah, doubt it, No, because you can't legislate to make

65
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,480
Speaker 2: someone else responsible for paid their faith. I mean basically,

66
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 2: what a rena seems to be saying is you have

67
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 2: to do it for free, and that's not going to

68
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,519
Speaker 2: work either. So that's the compromise. I think the conclusion

69
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,080
Speaker 2: then this is dead in the water because they didn't

70
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 2: use one first. They clearly are not keen for it.

71
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: What do you make of the Gareth.

72
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 3: Well, I haven't seen the news that Labor is supporting

73
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 3: because the best advice, I think every politician gets his

74
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 3: first learned account when you're doing something like this. And

75
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,640
Speaker 3: it looked like a really messy situation where the minister

76
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 3: thought his bill was still alive, but his coalition partners,

77
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 3: who depended on the votes, weren't supporting it. So if

78
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 3: Flavor's writing to the rescue, it'll be interesting to see

79
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 3: the final outcome. I disagree with David. I think the

80
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 3: best thing to do is not put the burden or

81
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 3: the onus on the retailers, and that's why retail wind

82
00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 3: Zeta has come out so strongly against it. It's to

83
00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 3: put it on the bank. They bank because of you know,

84
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 3: they act in the public interest. They have a special

85
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 3: privileged position and our economic system and we have regulations

86
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 3: that apply to them, so that would be the way

87
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 3: to do it. I think for the government right the

88
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 3: pressure there is that they've done so little on the

89
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,720
Speaker 3: actual cost of living that resorted to things like this

90
00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,960
Speaker 3: that would have just flowing through the consumers wouldn't have

91
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 3: actually saved anyone any money. The banks made seven point

92
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 3: two billion dollars in record profits last year. I think

93
00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,760
Speaker 3: they could take a little bit of a shave.

94
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,760
Speaker 1: All right, we'll take a break. Come back shortly right

95
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,159
Speaker 1: you back of the huddle, got David Farrer and Gareth Hughes. Gareth,

96
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,480
Speaker 1: do you think it was a tough one? Do you

97
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: think we should keep or throw out the six year

98
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 1: old boy from South Africa with Down syndrome?

99
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a very sad one. I think it's quite

100
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,279
Speaker 3: unfair for this family. I understand the parents, sister. The

101
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 3: parents are in New Zealand from South Africa. At the moment,

102
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 3: the Minister hasn't given them an explanation why this child

103
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,279
Speaker 3: can't stay in New Zealand any longer. It seems to

104
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,920
Speaker 3: go back to a decision that was made we while

105
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,640
Speaker 3: to go to change the rule around learning disorders and

106
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,159
Speaker 3: also not actually needing to give people an explanation. I

107
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,120
Speaker 3: just don't think that's at all fair. You know, this

108
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,239
Speaker 3: is a huge life choice, a huge choice that's impacting

109
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 3: the life of this family by the minister. Minister pink

110
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 3: and I think the least it could do is be

111
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 3: upfront and say why he's doing it.

112
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 2: David. On a personal level, it's a horrible thing because

113
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 2: no family wants to be facing this. But where I

114
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 2: think we need to be clear is people down syndrome

115
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 2: has huge value as individual human beings. But the right

116
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 2: to residency in New Zealand is not a right. It's

117
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 2: a privilege and it's harsh, but as an economic test,

118
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,919
Speaker 2: it's why we don't let every person in the world.

119
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 2: Do we look at how much income are you likely

120
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 2: to earn, your education, et cetera, et cetera, so we

121
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 2: have controlled immigration and the said reality is only three

122
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 2: percent of people's down syndrome end up in full time employment.

123
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 2: So it's not actually just the minister's decision. That immigration

124
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 2: law basically says that if you're likely to never end

125
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 2: up working in New Zealand, then you're going to cost

126
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,719
Speaker 2: quite a lot on education, health, you do not qualify.

127
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,159
Speaker 2: Now the Minister hasn't overruled that, but that is what

128
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 2: the law is. So it's horrible for the family, but

129
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 2: they would have known when they moved to New Zealand

130
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,400
Speaker 2: what the immigration law was and that this was a

131
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 2: very significant risk.

132
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,479
Speaker 1: Okay, do you location share with anybody Garrison?

133
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 3: Well, actually I do so. I don't want to be

134
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,479
Speaker 3: a stereotype. But my wife and I were cruising around

135
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 3: the wineries and the worded upper and on our electric bikes,

136
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 3: and I wanted to keep biking. My wife wanted to

137
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 3: go back to the airbnb, and on the rural narrow

138
00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 3: roads were utes driving past. She thought, no, it's probably

139
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 3: safer of it. You know where you are in case

140
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 3: you come acropper. So yeah, and I've kept it on

141
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 3: the whole time. I travel a lot for work, so

142
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 3: I'm quite happy knowing, well, really happy actually with my

143
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 3: partner knowing where I am.

144
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: David a year lot.

145
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,359
Speaker 2: But before I SA my ex and I had permanent

146
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 2: location Sharon, I haven't to keep track of each other

147
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,440
Speaker 2: or anything of that. It was simply great logistics. You

148
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 2: could see if she'd left home, no winter, start again,

149
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,200
Speaker 2: the dinnery. You can tell the kids and we'll be

150
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 2: home in five minutes. So very much from a practical

151
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 2: point of view as great. I also have somebody else

152
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 2: who started sharing their location with me seven years ago.

153
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 2: On a ski truck. We were driving through a repayo

154
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 2: and they haven't taken it off, just off, and I

155
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,720
Speaker 2: keep telling you I can still see your location, but

156
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 2: she doesn't mind. But quite funny because my kids see

157
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 2: my phone and they're like, why didn't you see their

158
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 2: location on your phone? And it's just like it's not

159
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 2: tuned off for seven.

160
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 1: Years Jesus, a hangover from your young days when you

161
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 1: were having a party. Hey, listen, can I just ask

162
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,280
Speaker 1: you guys something? Something has just popped up on Sydney

163
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: Morning Herald for me, which is that over in Australia

164
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 1: they're seeing people are canceling their Easter holiday plans because

165
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 1: of the cost of your Gareth, are you think are

166
00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 1: you rethinking Easter?

167
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,000
Speaker 3: Were you planning to go anywhere? I am actually because

168
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm a keen sailor and we're thinking about hitting if

169
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,680
Speaker 3: the weather was okay over to the sounds. But I've

170
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 3: got two hundred liters of diesel in my boat and

171
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 3: that might be like with gold it sometime soon, so

172
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 3: maybe I'm thinking of keeping that diesel in my yacht.

173
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,119
Speaker 1: Interesting, what about you, David?

174
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because we've gone eleven day road trip to kate

175
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,680
Speaker 2: Rieger and back planned and that price of petrit is

176
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 2: going up. Now we have an electric vehicle and a

177
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 2: non electric vehicle, a non electric for the longer cuts.

178
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,680
Speaker 2: But where we have been looking at could we do

179
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 2: this in the electric vehicle, Which towns have charges that

180
00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,600
Speaker 2: we could stop at, et cetera. So we're not going

181
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 2: to cancel the road trip, but we're very, very worried

182
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,199
Speaker 2: about what their cost is. Gave to be on two

183
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 2: two hundred calometers.

184
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, lads, thanks very much, Hey listen, go and

185
00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 1: have a lovely weekend. Really appreciate your time. That's Gareth

186
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 1: Use and David Farrer are Huddle this evening.

187
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,320
Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live news

188
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,199
Speaker 2: Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the

189
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 2: podcast on iHeartRadio