1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB SO. 3 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:15,587 Speaker 2: The Chiefs this week confirmed that head coach Clayton McMillan 4 00:00:15,627 --> 00:00:20,107 Speaker 2: will join Irish club Munster. He's being released from his 5 00:00:20,187 --> 00:00:23,667 Speaker 2: contract a year early and will depart after this current 6 00:00:23,747 --> 00:00:26,267 Speaker 2: season to take over at the Irish club. It'll bring 7 00:00:26,307 --> 00:00:28,907 Speaker 2: to an end five seasons in charge at the Chiefs, 8 00:00:28,987 --> 00:00:31,747 Speaker 2: during which Clayton McMillan has led them to the last 9 00:00:31,787 --> 00:00:35,427 Speaker 2: two Super Rugby finals. He's also coached the New Zealand 10 00:00:35,507 --> 00:00:38,707 Speaker 2: Under twenties, the Maldi All Blacks, New Zealand Barbarians and 11 00:00:38,787 --> 00:00:41,907 Speaker 2: the All Blacks fifteen. He has signed with Munster until 12 00:00:41,987 --> 00:00:44,667 Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty eight and will link up 13 00:00:44,707 --> 00:00:47,987 Speaker 2: with his new club in July to discuss this. Let's 14 00:00:47,987 --> 00:00:51,427 Speaker 2: bring in New Zealand Rugby's general manager of Professional Rugby 15 00:00:51,507 --> 00:00:54,747 Speaker 2: Chris Lendrum. Chris, thanks for chatting to us. First of all, 16 00:00:54,747 --> 00:00:58,507 Speaker 2: how did this conversation with Clayton play out? As he 17 00:00:58,667 --> 00:01:01,507 Speaker 2: sought a release from the final year of his contract 18 00:01:01,507 --> 00:01:01,827 Speaker 2: with you. 19 00:01:02,747 --> 00:01:07,587 Speaker 3: Sure a poney, Nice to be with you again. Yeah, 20 00:01:07,187 --> 00:01:09,547 Speaker 3: it was big news earlier in the way it wasn't it. 21 00:01:11,587 --> 00:01:16,627 Speaker 3: Clayton in New Zealand Rugby together with the Chiefs, have 22 00:01:16,667 --> 00:01:22,667 Speaker 3: always had a really strong relationship. We wrote Clayton incredibly highly, 23 00:01:22,707 --> 00:01:26,027 Speaker 3: not just as a coach but as a person. True 24 00:01:26,067 --> 00:01:30,027 Speaker 3: to form, Clayton has been really open and honest with 25 00:01:30,147 --> 00:01:33,187 Speaker 3: us for some time now about the fact that he 26 00:01:34,387 --> 00:01:40,107 Speaker 3: saw his next coaching position being offshore for a variety 27 00:01:40,147 --> 00:01:46,547 Speaker 3: of reasons, and he let us know immediately really when 28 00:01:46,867 --> 00:01:52,427 Speaker 3: this approach came from Munster to him. We've been discussing 29 00:01:52,467 --> 00:01:57,667 Speaker 3: that for a few weeks and those discussions led to 30 00:01:57,667 --> 00:01:58,707 Speaker 3: the announcement yesterday. 31 00:01:59,227 --> 00:02:02,587 Speaker 2: How do you balance the two things, losing our top 32 00:02:02,627 --> 00:02:06,587 Speaker 2: coaches but also the desire to allow them to gain 33 00:02:06,667 --> 00:02:09,907 Speaker 2: international experience and develop themselves as coaches. 34 00:02:11,627 --> 00:02:15,387 Speaker 3: Great question, and this is a really good example of it. 35 00:02:15,387 --> 00:02:21,067 Speaker 3: It's very individualized that there's no one pathway in coaching. 36 00:02:22,187 --> 00:02:27,707 Speaker 3: It's a really hard career. Coaches tend to move around 37 00:02:27,947 --> 00:02:33,267 Speaker 3: a lot that can be hard on family infano. In 38 00:02:33,267 --> 00:02:37,187 Speaker 3: this case, we of course would have loved to have 39 00:02:37,227 --> 00:02:39,947 Speaker 3: had Clayton and the Chiefs are on records saying this 40 00:02:40,027 --> 00:02:41,827 Speaker 3: as well. We would have loved to have had them 41 00:02:41,867 --> 00:02:44,747 Speaker 3: collectively in New Zealand in twenty twenty six, but we 42 00:02:44,827 --> 00:02:49,027 Speaker 3: knew that would be as last year. In this case, 43 00:02:50,427 --> 00:02:53,747 Speaker 3: I would rate Monster as one of the top half 44 00:02:53,787 --> 00:03:00,587 Speaker 3: dozen also club coaching opportunities in the world. It's a 45 00:03:00,627 --> 00:03:07,107 Speaker 3: province with a proud rugby history, great links New Zealand 46 00:03:07,227 --> 00:03:13,227 Speaker 3: that feature prominently. Traditionally in European competitions play a lot 47 00:03:13,227 --> 00:03:19,907 Speaker 3: of knockout rugby, that sort of thing, and in this 48 00:03:20,027 --> 00:03:24,947 Speaker 3: case we felt collectively that the Chiefs have good succession 49 00:03:24,987 --> 00:03:30,667 Speaker 3: options available to them who could be ready to coach 50 00:03:30,907 --> 00:03:36,747 Speaker 3: earlier than seven. So all of those things go in 51 00:03:36,827 --> 00:03:38,907 Speaker 3: the mix. And I think you can see there in 52 00:03:38,907 --> 00:03:43,467 Speaker 3: my comments around the club Munster, the province Munster, and 53 00:03:43,587 --> 00:03:46,587 Speaker 3: the comments about the club the Chiefs, that there's quite 54 00:03:46,587 --> 00:03:51,107 Speaker 3: a lot that's individual to this case of Clayton's. 55 00:03:51,347 --> 00:03:52,907 Speaker 2: Indeed, I want to talk a bit more about the 56 00:03:52,947 --> 00:03:54,987 Speaker 2: succession planning side of this in a moment. But do 57 00:03:55,067 --> 00:03:59,507 Speaker 2: you think ambitious coaches in New Zealand feel that they 58 00:03:59,587 --> 00:04:03,547 Speaker 2: have to work overseas to enhance their prospects for a 59 00:04:03,667 --> 00:04:04,627 Speaker 2: role with the or Blacks. 60 00:04:06,667 --> 00:04:09,387 Speaker 3: I hope not. As I said, there's no one pathway 61 00:04:09,427 --> 00:04:14,507 Speaker 3: and if you look at the last two appointments as 62 00:04:14,707 --> 00:04:17,787 Speaker 3: All Black's head coach, and Ian Foster and Scott Robertson 63 00:04:19,987 --> 00:04:27,747 Speaker 3: neither of them had direct international coaching experience I guess, 64 00:04:28,747 --> 00:04:31,547 Speaker 3: or coaching experience where they had been based off shore. 65 00:04:32,387 --> 00:04:34,787 Speaker 3: They all had a range of experiences, and Ian of 66 00:04:34,827 --> 00:04:38,787 Speaker 3: course had coached many have been involved in coaching many 67 00:04:38,827 --> 00:04:43,987 Speaker 3: many international test matches before he ascended to the All 68 00:04:43,987 --> 00:04:49,907 Speaker 3: Black's head coach position. Scott played a lot overseas coach 69 00:04:50,027 --> 00:04:57,347 Speaker 3: Barbarians rugby. Is a student of the game and so 70 00:04:57,787 --> 00:05:01,987 Speaker 3: I hope not but yet. There are also plenty of 71 00:05:01,987 --> 00:05:10,307 Speaker 3: examples where people have gone overseas and returned to coach 72 00:05:10,907 --> 00:05:13,307 Speaker 3: in New Zealand and up to the All Black level. 73 00:05:13,307 --> 00:05:17,107 Speaker 3: And the obvious example that people will go to, which 74 00:05:17,147 --> 00:05:19,907 Speaker 3: is a very successful period in All Black history, was 75 00:05:20,667 --> 00:05:24,587 Speaker 3: the period of Graham Henry and Steve Hanson and Wayne Smith, 76 00:05:26,587 --> 00:05:30,907 Speaker 3: who all had international coaching experience before they came back. 77 00:05:30,947 --> 00:05:33,307 Speaker 3: I think the key thing for people to understand is, 78 00:05:33,347 --> 00:05:40,067 Speaker 3: in the right circumstances, coaching overseas is never going to 79 00:05:40,107 --> 00:05:47,507 Speaker 3: be a negative. You will get experiences of playing and 80 00:05:47,547 --> 00:05:53,707 Speaker 3: coaching against different oppositions that play different style of game, 81 00:05:56,427 --> 00:06:03,827 Speaker 3: different conditions, different levels of physicality and that can only 82 00:06:03,947 --> 00:06:10,547 Speaker 3: enhance you as a coach. So it's one pathway, but 83 00:06:10,707 --> 00:06:15,787 Speaker 3: it's definitely not the only pathway. In Clayton's case, sitting 84 00:06:15,827 --> 00:06:20,547 Speaker 3: here looking at the end of twenty twenty five, he 85 00:06:20,667 --> 00:06:24,707 Speaker 3: will absolutely aspire to one day coach the All Blacks. 86 00:06:26,107 --> 00:06:29,467 Speaker 3: That pathway is closed at the moment. There's only one 87 00:06:29,467 --> 00:06:33,307 Speaker 3: All Blacks team and one All Blacks head coach role. 88 00:06:33,427 --> 00:06:36,867 Speaker 3: So you know, I think people sitting back and understanding 89 00:06:36,907 --> 00:06:39,627 Speaker 3: all of that landscape will really understand the decision that 90 00:06:40,067 --> 00:06:45,547 Speaker 3: he's arrived at, and we certainly understood it as well. 91 00:06:46,467 --> 00:06:50,267 Speaker 2: How do you show aspiring coaches in New Zealand the 92 00:06:50,347 --> 00:06:52,547 Speaker 2: pathway to the All Blacks because, as you say, there's 93 00:06:52,547 --> 00:06:55,067 Speaker 2: only one job that pathways closed at the moment until 94 00:06:55,067 --> 00:06:57,467 Speaker 2: at least the back end of twenty twenty seven, and 95 00:06:57,507 --> 00:07:00,547 Speaker 2: who knows beyond that. How do you show our top 96 00:07:00,587 --> 00:07:05,187 Speaker 2: coaches an aspirational pathway to the job. Let's be honest, Chris, 97 00:07:05,227 --> 00:07:05,907 Speaker 2: that they all want. 98 00:07:08,067 --> 00:07:12,267 Speaker 3: Well, there are other Team in Black opportunities for our coaches, 99 00:07:12,307 --> 00:07:16,387 Speaker 3: and you look at Clayton and is a good example. Again, 100 00:07:17,307 --> 00:07:21,427 Speaker 3: he has coached mariol Blacks, He's coached at under twenties level. 101 00:07:22,067 --> 00:07:26,587 Speaker 3: He has coached New Zealand Barbarians and most recently he's 102 00:07:26,627 --> 00:07:30,347 Speaker 3: been involved in coaching and has been head coach of 103 00:07:30,387 --> 00:07:34,027 Speaker 3: the All Blacks fifteen. So there's a whole lot of 104 00:07:34,027 --> 00:07:39,667 Speaker 3: pathway programs there and special purpose teams like Mario Blacks 105 00:07:39,747 --> 00:07:45,267 Speaker 3: that do enable coaches to get more experience and to 106 00:07:45,347 --> 00:07:50,547 Speaker 3: feel perhaps even closer to New Zealand rugby to understand 107 00:07:50,587 --> 00:07:56,107 Speaker 3: where they may sit. The reality is is that the 108 00:07:56,587 --> 00:07:59,787 Speaker 3: full time head coaching roles that exist outside of the 109 00:07:59,787 --> 00:08:03,347 Speaker 3: All Blacks exist a Super rugby level, and what we 110 00:08:03,907 --> 00:08:07,427 Speaker 3: tend to see is that coaches love coaching at Super 111 00:08:07,467 --> 00:08:12,107 Speaker 3: rugby level for a number of years, but you know, 112 00:08:12,227 --> 00:08:17,507 Speaker 3: it's unlikely to be a role that a coach will 113 00:08:17,547 --> 00:08:22,747 Speaker 3: sit in for ten or fifteen or twenty years, and 114 00:08:23,307 --> 00:08:26,947 Speaker 3: so that's where the international side does come in. But 115 00:08:27,187 --> 00:08:29,867 Speaker 3: we do a lot. We work really closely with these coaches. 116 00:08:29,907 --> 00:08:33,867 Speaker 3: Pine all the Super rugby head coaches are actually employees 117 00:08:33,907 --> 00:08:37,827 Speaker 3: of New Zealand Rugby. We're involved in all of their 118 00:08:37,867 --> 00:08:45,987 Speaker 3: development conversations. We see them regularly and talk to them 119 00:08:46,347 --> 00:08:49,827 Speaker 3: about what they're seeing, not just in the game and 120 00:08:49,947 --> 00:08:52,947 Speaker 3: around what we're doing and how we're playing, but also 121 00:08:53,587 --> 00:08:57,427 Speaker 3: how they see their own future. So again, you know 122 00:08:57,547 --> 00:09:01,027 Speaker 3: the pathway as a concept, it can be very individualized. 123 00:09:02,587 --> 00:09:07,987 Speaker 3: There's lots of specific factors that go into anyone individual 124 00:09:08,067 --> 00:09:13,827 Speaker 3: coaches pathway or perception of it, and we're just part 125 00:09:13,867 --> 00:09:17,427 Speaker 3: of that conversation, supporting them and their growth and their development. 126 00:09:18,027 --> 00:09:20,987 Speaker 2: Do you worry that if we use Clayton as an example, 127 00:09:21,347 --> 00:09:25,067 Speaker 2: he's traveling his pathway and as you say, he I'm 128 00:09:25,107 --> 00:09:28,707 Speaker 2: sure at one stage would like that pathway to include 129 00:09:28,747 --> 00:09:31,027 Speaker 2: coaching the All Blacks. Do you worry that he'll find 130 00:09:31,027 --> 00:09:32,987 Speaker 2: a fork in the road that will send him off 131 00:09:32,987 --> 00:09:36,027 Speaker 2: in a different direction and he'll end up coaching the 132 00:09:36,147 --> 00:09:38,707 Speaker 2: Wallabies or Scotland or someone like that. 133 00:09:41,467 --> 00:09:45,587 Speaker 3: I don't worry about it. I think it's just a 134 00:09:45,627 --> 00:09:51,507 Speaker 3: reality for us. You and your listeners will know how 135 00:09:51,507 --> 00:09:59,707 Speaker 3: many New Zealanders have coached other international sides and I 136 00:09:59,827 --> 00:10:03,747 Speaker 3: see that as a great strength for New Zealand rugby. 137 00:10:05,547 --> 00:10:11,267 Speaker 3: Look at Jamie. You know Jamie had a fork in 138 00:10:11,307 --> 00:10:13,947 Speaker 3: his road. He did his time at the Highlanders, he 139 00:10:14,067 --> 00:10:17,907 Speaker 3: was highly successful in the final analysis there. He's then 140 00:10:17,947 --> 00:10:24,147 Speaker 3: been coaching Japan for eight seasons and look where he 141 00:10:24,267 --> 00:10:28,987 Speaker 3: is now, and look at how the Highlanders played last week. 142 00:10:29,027 --> 00:10:33,667 Speaker 3: I was down in Dunedin and you know, all credit 143 00:10:33,747 --> 00:10:37,867 Speaker 3: to the players obviously, but to me, that team had 144 00:10:38,667 --> 00:10:43,547 Speaker 3: Jamie Joseph's stamp all over it. And that's fantastic because 145 00:10:43,547 --> 00:10:46,347 Speaker 3: he's going to come back and he will in his 146 00:10:46,467 --> 00:10:49,747 Speaker 3: coaching group down there in the club, will grow All 147 00:10:49,787 --> 00:10:54,227 Speaker 3: Blacks for us and all of his experience that he's 148 00:10:54,267 --> 00:10:59,347 Speaker 3: picked up offshore will help him lead that program. So 149 00:11:00,467 --> 00:11:02,347 Speaker 3: part of is just the reality. We do only have 150 00:11:02,387 --> 00:11:06,627 Speaker 3: one all black's head coach role, and we have one 151 00:11:06,707 --> 00:11:12,067 Speaker 3: set of all Blacks assistant coaching roles, and we fortunately 152 00:11:12,307 --> 00:11:18,067 Speaker 3: enough produce surplus talent. That means that not everybody can 153 00:11:18,107 --> 00:11:23,147 Speaker 3: be satisfied immediately by moving into those roles, and they're 154 00:11:23,307 --> 00:11:27,587 Speaker 3: highly highly competitive. I think that's the standard we want 155 00:11:27,627 --> 00:11:33,307 Speaker 3: for the All Blacks. And yep, while some coaches applying 156 00:11:33,347 --> 00:11:35,267 Speaker 3: their trade and growing in New Zealand, others will be 157 00:11:35,387 --> 00:11:39,147 Speaker 3: plying their trade and growing offshore. And in the end, 158 00:11:39,267 --> 00:11:43,627 Speaker 3: I'm comfortable that the vast majority of those people are 159 00:11:43,707 --> 00:11:49,067 Speaker 3: motivated to want to coach the All Blacks as a priority, 160 00:11:49,827 --> 00:11:52,307 Speaker 3: and when the time is right for them, they will 161 00:11:52,307 --> 00:11:53,987 Speaker 3: put their hat in the ring. 162 00:11:54,787 --> 00:11:59,187 Speaker 2: Just on succession planning, Chris, I know that there's no 163 00:11:59,387 --> 00:12:02,587 Speaker 2: error apparent to Scott Robertson, it doesn't work that way. 164 00:12:02,627 --> 00:12:04,947 Speaker 2: But what about it at super level where you've got 165 00:12:04,987 --> 00:12:08,747 Speaker 2: five franchises and you know, and we've had this week 166 00:12:08,787 --> 00:12:11,347 Speaker 2: Clayton McMillan, move on, Have you got a spreadsheet or 167 00:12:11,387 --> 00:12:13,707 Speaker 2: a whiteboard or something that's you know, perhaps just in 168 00:12:13,747 --> 00:12:17,667 Speaker 2: your mind of the next potential candidates for each of 169 00:12:17,667 --> 00:12:19,747 Speaker 2: the super right by sides, for example. 170 00:12:21,907 --> 00:12:26,747 Speaker 3: Between us and in our five clubs, we do sometimes 171 00:12:26,787 --> 00:12:32,747 Speaker 3: the succession is more about than others. Sometimes we need 172 00:12:32,787 --> 00:12:38,827 Speaker 3: to go to recruitment processes, but absolutely you're always thinking 173 00:12:38,867 --> 00:12:46,627 Speaker 3: about that, and the pastway into those roles is also 174 00:12:48,747 --> 00:12:52,947 Speaker 3: or can be quite individualized. You know, there is a 175 00:12:52,987 --> 00:13:00,467 Speaker 3: growing distinction in coaching between what it takes to be 176 00:13:00,507 --> 00:13:02,987 Speaker 3: a head coach and what it takes to be a 177 00:13:02,987 --> 00:13:09,267 Speaker 3: great assistant coach. And it is not always the case 178 00:13:09,587 --> 00:13:15,347 Speaker 3: that assistant coaches who do a lot of the delivery 179 00:13:15,947 --> 00:13:22,827 Speaker 3: on and off the training field and our teams either 180 00:13:22,947 --> 00:13:25,627 Speaker 3: will make good head coaches or even want to be 181 00:13:25,747 --> 00:13:30,947 Speaker 3: head coaches. So sometimes from the outside, the obvious succession 182 00:13:31,307 --> 00:13:34,867 Speaker 3: people might think well, okay, we'll just promote the assistant 183 00:13:34,907 --> 00:13:37,427 Speaker 3: coach up to the head coach role. Sometimes that's not 184 00:13:37,467 --> 00:13:44,507 Speaker 3: the case, and so we're always thinking coaching is a 185 00:13:44,547 --> 00:13:49,427 Speaker 3: critical part of you know, what we hope will be 186 00:13:49,587 --> 00:13:54,547 Speaker 3: our competitive advantage in New Zealand Rugby. It's always been 187 00:13:54,587 --> 00:13:58,027 Speaker 3: a big part of who we are. You know, we 188 00:13:58,147 --> 00:14:08,227 Speaker 3: do populate other countries' programs with our coaches. And yeah, 189 00:14:08,267 --> 00:14:11,947 Speaker 3: absolutely basically is the one word an'swer at all of that, 190 00:14:12,027 --> 00:14:13,027 Speaker 3: I suppose indeed. 191 00:14:13,427 --> 00:14:16,187 Speaker 2: And as far as the recruitment of a replacement for Clayton, 192 00:14:16,627 --> 00:14:18,867 Speaker 2: the process around that, as you say, these coaches are 193 00:14:18,907 --> 00:14:23,187 Speaker 2: employees of New Zealand Rugby, but clearly there's a vested 194 00:14:23,227 --> 00:14:26,467 Speaker 2: interest around the Chiefs franchise in this case. So do 195 00:14:26,507 --> 00:14:28,507 Speaker 2: you work together with the Chiefs. Is that how it 196 00:14:28,547 --> 00:14:30,347 Speaker 2: works to come up with Clayton's replacement? 197 00:14:31,387 --> 00:14:35,947 Speaker 3: Yes, that's absolutely how it works. We'll be very aligned 198 00:14:36,027 --> 00:14:42,747 Speaker 3: with the club. As I say, technically the head coach 199 00:14:42,787 --> 00:14:45,627 Speaker 3: of the Chiefs and zeal And Rugby employee, but you 200 00:14:45,747 --> 00:14:49,587 Speaker 3: absolutely have to make sure that the coach is set 201 00:14:49,667 --> 00:14:54,347 Speaker 3: up for success luckily, and that the club is aligned 202 00:14:54,867 --> 00:14:59,707 Speaker 3: and supportive of that candidate and can build a team 203 00:14:59,787 --> 00:15:03,787 Speaker 3: around that candidate, which which is their responsibility. So I've 204 00:15:03,787 --> 00:15:07,267 Speaker 3: got no doubt that we're very align with the Chiefs. 205 00:15:08,387 --> 00:15:13,707 Speaker 3: They're a really strong club, they're well led, they work 206 00:15:13,827 --> 00:15:17,227 Speaker 3: hard in the high performance space, both and player and 207 00:15:17,267 --> 00:15:22,067 Speaker 3: coach development, and when we get to that point later 208 00:15:22,107 --> 00:15:24,787 Speaker 3: in the year, it'll be a really good conversation with him. 209 00:15:25,267 --> 00:15:27,587 Speaker 2: Just to finish, what does your gut tell you? Do 210 00:15:27,667 --> 00:15:30,027 Speaker 2: you expect Clayton will coach in New Zealand Again? 211 00:15:31,667 --> 00:15:34,547 Speaker 3: I do expect your coach in New Zealand. Again, I 212 00:15:34,587 --> 00:15:37,387 Speaker 3: don't know at what level or in what role. That's 213 00:15:37,427 --> 00:15:39,587 Speaker 3: part of the fun of all of this and part 214 00:15:39,627 --> 00:15:41,787 Speaker 3: of his challenge. I expect him to do a really 215 00:15:41,787 --> 00:15:46,787 Speaker 3: good job at Munster. I think the fits there for 216 00:15:46,907 --> 00:15:50,027 Speaker 3: what I understand that Province needs at the moment, and 217 00:15:50,387 --> 00:15:57,347 Speaker 3: Clayton's skill sets is excellent and he's still young, He's 218 00:15:57,587 --> 00:16:01,027 Speaker 3: still got a big coaching career ahead of him if 219 00:16:01,027 --> 00:16:05,387 Speaker 3: he wants it, and he knows we would love to 220 00:16:05,387 --> 00:16:11,067 Speaker 3: see him back in New Zealand in what role is 221 00:16:12,027 --> 00:16:14,587 Speaker 3: in the lap of the gods as they say, Piney. 222 00:16:14,747 --> 00:16:17,507 Speaker 2: Indeed is thanks for wrapping so much context around this 223 00:16:17,627 --> 00:16:19,667 Speaker 2: for us. Chris really appreciate your time this afternoon. 224 00:16:19,787 --> 00:16:22,067 Speaker 3: Always a pleasure, mate. Thanks no, thank you, Chris. 225 00:16:22,147 --> 00:16:24,067 Speaker 2: Chris Lendrum there ahead of the professional game or New 226 00:16:24,147 --> 00:16:29,107 Speaker 2: Zealand Rugby's general manager of professional Rugby lots to unpack, 227 00:16:29,187 --> 00:16:31,427 Speaker 2: their lots to get stuck into. You've had the chance 228 00:16:31,587 --> 00:16:35,347 Speaker 2: to think about this new since it broke on Thursday morning. 229 00:16:35,347 --> 00:16:36,987 Speaker 2: You've heard from Chris Lendrum. 230 00:16:37,627 --> 00:16:40,827 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live 231 00:16:40,947 --> 00:16:44,227 Speaker 1: to News Talk sed B weekends from midday or follow 232 00:16:44,267 --> 00:16:45,867 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.