1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,013 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be 2 00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:16,373 Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,813 --> 00:00:22,053 Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with 4 00:00:22,253 --> 00:00:23,973 Speaker 1: Elliott Smith, powered. 5 00:00:23,613 --> 00:00:24,373 Speaker 2: By News Talks. 6 00:00:24,373 --> 00:00:27,973 Speaker 3: It be Welcome into Rugby to Riggs powered by Excess Solutions, 7 00:00:27,973 --> 00:00:31,973 Speaker 3: elevating you and your business through a high level. Well, Liam, 8 00:00:32,373 --> 00:00:35,693 Speaker 3: we're back for another week, Elliott Smith, lillam Apire and 9 00:00:35,853 --> 00:00:39,933 Speaker 3: we have departed sunny Sydney for Wendy Wellington. As we 10 00:00:39,973 --> 00:00:43,133 Speaker 3: come to you this week, building up too bleddersload, too 11 00:00:43,293 --> 00:00:46,693 Speaker 3: sad to leave the sun behind and the Kuji Pavilion 12 00:00:46,693 --> 00:00:48,613 Speaker 3: behind and. 13 00:00:47,973 --> 00:00:50,173 Speaker 2: Everything else that with Sydney. 14 00:00:50,253 --> 00:00:53,573 Speaker 3: But we have some more work to do and the 15 00:00:53,573 --> 00:00:55,493 Speaker 3: the All Blacks have another test to build before. 16 00:00:55,533 --> 00:00:57,733 Speaker 2: But it was a great week in Sydney. It was 17 00:00:57,853 --> 00:01:02,613 Speaker 2: great city, interesting results, interesting tests and look at really 18 00:01:02,653 --> 00:01:05,453 Speaker 2: warms the arms of the heart, warms the cockles to 19 00:01:05,533 --> 00:01:08,613 Speaker 2: be in our nation's capital early. I know you're Maive 20 00:01:08,613 --> 00:01:11,573 Speaker 2: well Etric fans, so it's very very special for you 21 00:01:11,613 --> 00:01:12,413 Speaker 2: to have a homecoming. 22 00:01:12,453 --> 00:01:14,413 Speaker 3: Well I was hoping to have a jersey to represent 23 00:01:15,213 --> 00:01:17,693 Speaker 3: my love of the city, but I've managed to somehow. 24 00:01:17,413 --> 00:01:19,653 Speaker 2: Not get that jersey. Yes, yes, I should have brought 25 00:01:19,653 --> 00:01:21,813 Speaker 2: that to present you, but that's witing for you. When 26 00:01:21,813 --> 00:01:24,173 Speaker 2: we get back to walk on a great special that 27 00:01:24,213 --> 00:01:24,973 Speaker 2: will be great. 28 00:01:25,653 --> 00:01:29,613 Speaker 3: Right, Let's dive into this All Blacks Wallabies test in Sydney, 29 00:01:29,653 --> 00:01:33,413 Speaker 3: the All Blacks winning thirty one and twenty eight. I 30 00:01:33,493 --> 00:01:37,053 Speaker 3: guest the same old issues really cropping up for the 31 00:01:37,093 --> 00:01:41,453 Speaker 3: All Blacks, not taking their opportunities and then getting themselves 32 00:01:41,493 --> 00:01:46,053 Speaker 3: into a fourth quorder arm wrestle against an opponent. This 33 00:01:46,213 --> 00:01:48,053 Speaker 3: time they didn't end up on the winning side, but 34 00:01:49,333 --> 00:01:52,773 Speaker 3: almost to an extent, feels like a loss. Even Scott 35 00:01:52,813 --> 00:01:55,493 Speaker 3: Roberson no painting it, you know, as we've won the cup, 36 00:01:55,533 --> 00:01:58,253 Speaker 3: but you look at that and Neil Blacks really could 37 00:01:58,253 --> 00:02:01,413 Speaker 3: have belted the Wallabies and torched them. 38 00:02:01,773 --> 00:02:05,813 Speaker 2: Instead they just squeaked home. Really, yeah, you're right, it 39 00:02:05,853 --> 00:02:07,893 Speaker 2: does feel like a loss of many respects and I 40 00:02:07,933 --> 00:02:12,413 Speaker 2: think that was certainly the feedback coming through when the 41 00:02:12,413 --> 00:02:15,693 Speaker 2: WhatsApps was blowing up from people back home. A lot 42 00:02:15,693 --> 00:02:18,733 Speaker 2: of frustration, and I think that frustration stems from light 43 00:02:18,853 --> 00:02:23,333 Speaker 2: You say that the same endemic issues. Five tests in 44 00:02:23,373 --> 00:02:25,293 Speaker 2: a row now the All Blacks have failed to score 45 00:02:25,373 --> 00:02:28,413 Speaker 2: point beyond the fifty second minute. Three of those matches 46 00:02:28,413 --> 00:02:33,413 Speaker 2: are blowing massive leads, and this game they scored three 47 00:02:33,493 --> 00:02:39,573 Speaker 2: points after the twenty sixth minute. They're staggering, and particularly 48 00:02:39,613 --> 00:02:42,493 Speaker 2: given their start with the four triers. They blew the 49 00:02:42,533 --> 00:02:46,253 Speaker 2: Wallabies off the park and then allowed the Wallabies back 50 00:02:46,253 --> 00:02:52,093 Speaker 2: into the contest, and then it's their finishing to matches. 51 00:02:52,133 --> 00:02:55,573 Speaker 2: They've now had five yellow cards in their last three tests. 52 00:02:56,093 --> 00:02:59,133 Speaker 2: They are losing their heads. Their game management isn't there. 53 00:02:59,493 --> 00:03:03,933 Speaker 2: There's real questions about the on field leadership. And while 54 00:03:03,973 --> 00:03:07,173 Speaker 2: they did close out this match, it really was clinging 55 00:03:07,173 --> 00:03:08,973 Speaker 2: on for dear life, it was. 56 00:03:09,213 --> 00:03:12,773 Speaker 3: And this team went from one that was playing some slick, 57 00:03:12,853 --> 00:03:16,533 Speaker 3: sublime rugby in the opening twenty five to thirty minutes 58 00:03:17,173 --> 00:03:19,013 Speaker 3: to be in the back twenty of them. And it's 59 00:03:19,053 --> 00:03:20,653 Speaker 3: a team that didn't look like they knew each other 60 00:03:20,693 --> 00:03:22,533 Speaker 3: and that it had just been thrust all the park 61 00:03:22,613 --> 00:03:26,093 Speaker 3: together for the first time. And I don't get how 62 00:03:26,133 --> 00:03:27,773 Speaker 3: you can go from that in the first half to 63 00:03:27,813 --> 00:03:31,733 Speaker 3: being so clunky, so disorganized, so lacking of a game 64 00:03:31,773 --> 00:03:34,973 Speaker 3: plan in the closing stages of the game. I think 65 00:03:35,293 --> 00:03:36,733 Speaker 3: if we flip it around a bit, I think there's 66 00:03:36,733 --> 00:03:38,133 Speaker 3: a bit of a tactic from the All Blacks to 67 00:03:38,173 --> 00:03:41,413 Speaker 3: try and blow teams off the park early and it's 68 00:03:41,453 --> 00:03:43,533 Speaker 3: worked to an extent because they managed to build up 69 00:03:43,573 --> 00:03:46,853 Speaker 3: some leads against South Africa in the first Eastern Johannesburg. 70 00:03:46,853 --> 00:03:50,973 Speaker 3: They've got to twenty seven to seventeen again on Argentina 71 00:03:51,053 --> 00:03:53,013 Speaker 3: Wellingson you think back to that. They got to lead 72 00:03:53,053 --> 00:03:55,933 Speaker 3: early in Auckland as well. They managed to do that, 73 00:03:56,093 --> 00:03:59,093 Speaker 3: but they don't seem to know how to play the 74 00:03:59,173 --> 00:04:01,413 Speaker 3: back end of the game. Great have a fast start, 75 00:04:01,453 --> 00:04:03,493 Speaker 3: but you've got to actually close out games. And it's 76 00:04:03,493 --> 00:04:06,533 Speaker 3: becoming a really big issue for this All Blacks team 77 00:04:06,853 --> 00:04:09,693 Speaker 3: that they just can't seem to not only finding points, 78 00:04:09,733 --> 00:04:12,373 Speaker 3: but just look like they're capable of doing anything in 79 00:04:12,413 --> 00:04:15,853 Speaker 3: the back close at half of games, they just as 80 00:04:15,893 --> 00:04:18,893 Speaker 3: you said, lacks some bonfield leadership and game management. And 81 00:04:18,973 --> 00:04:22,213 Speaker 3: that last twenty to thirty minutes on the weekend, and 82 00:04:22,693 --> 00:04:24,253 Speaker 3: if the game had gone five minutes longer, there's a 83 00:04:24,253 --> 00:04:25,333 Speaker 3: real chance they would have lost that. 84 00:04:26,373 --> 00:04:28,293 Speaker 2: And I think the thing that highlights it most for 85 00:04:28,373 --> 00:04:30,773 Speaker 2: me is this was an area of strength for the 86 00:04:30,813 --> 00:04:32,773 Speaker 2: All Blacks for so long, and part of it is 87 00:04:33,693 --> 00:04:36,573 Speaker 2: to a degree, the erosion of debt right the bench. 88 00:04:36,613 --> 00:04:40,333 Speaker 2: The all Blacks used to have was phenomenal and they 89 00:04:40,373 --> 00:04:43,013 Speaker 2: were the ones that were fitter than everyone. They were 90 00:04:43,053 --> 00:04:46,053 Speaker 2: the ones that would come over top teams lates even 91 00:04:46,053 --> 00:04:47,973 Speaker 2: when they went at their best, and win matches that 92 00:04:48,013 --> 00:04:50,853 Speaker 2: they didn't deserve to win. You know, you think about 93 00:04:50,893 --> 00:04:54,933 Speaker 2: Irelands in Dublin with that great Ryan Krawdi tro or 94 00:04:55,293 --> 00:04:59,373 Speaker 2: there was another example in Australia where they won late. 95 00:04:59,453 --> 00:05:03,653 Speaker 2: I think it was Muller Kaifakatoa scored. There's countless examples 96 00:05:03,693 --> 00:05:06,613 Speaker 2: of this and now the script has been totally flipped 97 00:05:06,773 --> 00:05:12,573 Speaker 2: and there are extreme vulnerabilities there and it's a curse. 98 00:05:12,693 --> 00:05:16,893 Speaker 2: It's an unsolvable issue for Scott Robinson. And he's an 99 00:05:16,933 --> 00:05:19,653 Speaker 2: eternal optimist, isn't he. You asked him at the press, Corrence, 100 00:05:19,693 --> 00:05:23,773 Speaker 2: you know you're an optimist, clearly you know you're locking 101 00:05:23,813 --> 00:05:25,973 Speaker 2: the way the cup And he made the point about 102 00:05:26,333 --> 00:05:30,213 Speaker 2: it's not bittersweet. He's certainly tried to put a positive 103 00:05:30,253 --> 00:05:33,253 Speaker 2: spin on it. But behind closed doors they must be 104 00:05:33,853 --> 00:05:38,373 Speaker 2: kicking themselves, scratching their heads, grasping for the panantole because. 105 00:05:39,533 --> 00:05:43,013 Speaker 3: How do they fix this? Well, I don't really know, 106 00:05:43,093 --> 00:05:46,573 Speaker 3: but it kind of I mean, yeah, I don't. I 107 00:05:46,573 --> 00:05:48,493 Speaker 3: don't really know how they do sex that they've tried 108 00:05:48,493 --> 00:05:54,373 Speaker 3: a few things and changing around the bench, changing the experience, 109 00:05:54,733 --> 00:05:55,733 Speaker 3: what they're trying to get out of it. 110 00:05:55,813 --> 00:05:56,173 Speaker 2: I don't know. 111 00:05:56,213 --> 00:06:00,293 Speaker 3: Necessarily they've got the bench selections exactly right. Some terms 112 00:06:00,293 --> 00:06:03,453 Speaker 3: of getting impact in the last the back half of 113 00:06:04,453 --> 00:06:11,253 Speaker 3: a game, I think you're replacing some X factor players 114 00:06:11,293 --> 00:06:15,893 Speaker 3: in some cases with players that are learning still the 115 00:06:15,933 --> 00:06:20,133 Speaker 3: test craft of rugby. And to expect a bench performance 116 00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:22,973 Speaker 3: or a dynamic bench performance out of these players to 117 00:06:22,973 --> 00:06:26,773 Speaker 3: close out the game when they're still losing learning bits 118 00:06:26,773 --> 00:06:28,173 Speaker 3: about test rugby, I think, is. 119 00:06:30,093 --> 00:06:31,693 Speaker 2: You know, questionable, you know. 120 00:06:31,693 --> 00:06:33,293 Speaker 3: But then you've got someone like an Antlonine that Brown, 121 00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:35,853 Speaker 3: he's on the bench, who's played more than seventy tests 122 00:06:35,853 --> 00:06:39,453 Speaker 3: for his country, and apart from the yellow card, I 123 00:06:39,733 --> 00:06:41,493 Speaker 3: thought it had a good impact on the game on 124 00:06:41,533 --> 00:06:46,973 Speaker 3: the weekend. So it requires leadership on the park. It requires, 125 00:06:48,173 --> 00:06:51,413 Speaker 3: you know, some senior heads just taking charge of the 126 00:06:51,413 --> 00:06:54,093 Speaker 3: game and taking it by the throat, and they just 127 00:06:54,173 --> 00:06:57,293 Speaker 3: really haven't been able to do so as yet. And 128 00:06:57,373 --> 00:06:59,053 Speaker 3: I think we've got to get to the rest of 129 00:06:59,093 --> 00:07:01,133 Speaker 3: the game shortly. But I guess that there is a 130 00:07:01,173 --> 00:07:04,733 Speaker 3: primal question about Damien McKenzie at tin and whether he 131 00:07:04,973 --> 00:07:08,173 Speaker 3: is the answer for this All Blacks team so far 132 00:07:08,413 --> 00:07:11,773 Speaker 3: started all eight tests at this point in the campaign, 133 00:07:12,533 --> 00:07:15,333 Speaker 3: and there were times on the weekend there was the 134 00:07:15,373 --> 00:07:17,293 Speaker 3: flick pass that didn't really need to be thrown. It 135 00:07:17,293 --> 00:07:20,773 Speaker 3: could have either taken the contact recycled it and the 136 00:07:20,813 --> 00:07:22,573 Speaker 3: All Blacks would have been odds on the score or 137 00:07:23,293 --> 00:07:25,973 Speaker 3: drawing pass and they probably would have gone and then 138 00:07:26,053 --> 00:07:29,133 Speaker 3: make it thirty six, fourteen ten gone second spell and 139 00:07:30,173 --> 00:07:33,213 Speaker 3: they're not being caught from there. So I guess there 140 00:07:33,213 --> 00:07:35,733 Speaker 3: are still some questions around Damien McKenzie. What do you 141 00:07:35,733 --> 00:07:38,613 Speaker 3: think the All Blacks do there? Then I'd circle back 142 00:07:38,653 --> 00:07:39,093 Speaker 3: for a minute. 143 00:07:39,093 --> 00:07:41,413 Speaker 2: I think you're right, and part of the broader issue 144 00:07:41,453 --> 00:07:45,093 Speaker 2: here is the same theme around the All Blacks lack 145 00:07:45,133 --> 00:07:47,853 Speaker 2: of finishing. They should never have been in that position 146 00:07:47,893 --> 00:07:50,733 Speaker 2: at the weekend. They led twenty one nil, they led 147 00:07:50,813 --> 00:07:54,813 Speaker 2: twenty eight to seven and twenty eight to fourteen at halftime. 148 00:07:55,453 --> 00:08:00,093 Speaker 2: They had ample opportunity to not only kill off the Wallabies, 149 00:08:00,133 --> 00:08:03,253 Speaker 2: but rarely blow them out. You mentioned the Damien McKenzie flickball. 150 00:08:03,333 --> 00:08:06,213 Speaker 2: There was a eighty meter breakout tryer that wasn't for 151 00:08:06,293 --> 00:08:09,613 Speaker 2: Cortez at Atima. There were a couple of other examples. 152 00:08:09,733 --> 00:08:13,213 Speaker 2: Artie Severe was held up over the line and this 153 00:08:13,293 --> 00:08:16,213 Speaker 2: is a common theme around. How many times have we 154 00:08:16,253 --> 00:08:20,213 Speaker 2: heard Scott Robinson say this year postmatch, we're creating so 155 00:08:20,293 --> 00:08:23,373 Speaker 2: many chances, we just need to finish them. Well, why 156 00:08:23,453 --> 00:08:25,693 Speaker 2: is that not happening? So the All Blacks should not 157 00:08:25,893 --> 00:08:28,413 Speaker 2: have been in that position, and that's when they start 158 00:08:28,453 --> 00:08:31,413 Speaker 2: to lose their heads. When the pressure comes on, they 159 00:08:31,413 --> 00:08:35,293 Speaker 2: start to panic. You see the yellow cards. They are 160 00:08:35,333 --> 00:08:38,093 Speaker 2: under pressure, they're having to defend their own line. So 161 00:08:38,133 --> 00:08:42,453 Speaker 2: that's the wider picture of why they're in these positions, 162 00:08:42,493 --> 00:08:47,493 Speaker 2: why they're struggling to score points. Well, Damien McKenzie, I 163 00:08:47,533 --> 00:08:52,493 Speaker 2: think it is a big question. And before we get 164 00:08:52,493 --> 00:08:55,893 Speaker 2: on too, I guess the options and his game. I 165 00:08:55,933 --> 00:08:58,413 Speaker 2: want to ask you do you think there's an element 166 00:08:58,453 --> 00:09:01,453 Speaker 2: of Scott Robinson. He's backed him, he's showed a lot 167 00:09:01,493 --> 00:09:04,573 Speaker 2: of faith on the park, but how many times this 168 00:09:04,693 --> 00:09:11,493 Speaker 2: year has he volunteered or talked about Himwanga? Because in 169 00:09:11,533 --> 00:09:15,573 Speaker 2: Sydney as Press Corrency, a team naming Press Correnc, he 170 00:09:15,613 --> 00:09:19,013 Speaker 2: talked about the fact that he went surfing with Joey 171 00:09:19,093 --> 00:09:21,933 Speaker 2: John's and how Joey John's are some wins. Richie coming 172 00:09:21,973 --> 00:09:26,693 Speaker 2: back and then that's a natural headline because it's extremely topical. 173 00:09:26,773 --> 00:09:30,093 Speaker 2: Everyone is has talked about when is Richie coming back? 174 00:09:30,293 --> 00:09:33,973 Speaker 2: Likely be next year, So maybe that's unsettingly to McKenzie. 175 00:09:34,013 --> 00:09:38,413 Speaker 2: So I'm asking you, while Scott Robinson showed faith in 176 00:09:38,493 --> 00:09:40,933 Speaker 2: McKenzie on the park back to him and all eight tests, 177 00:09:41,853 --> 00:09:44,773 Speaker 2: how undermining is it that in publicly he's talking about 178 00:09:44,813 --> 00:09:45,373 Speaker 2: Richie Warner. 179 00:09:47,213 --> 00:09:50,653 Speaker 3: It is to an extent, but I guess he's backed him. 180 00:09:50,693 --> 00:09:54,053 Speaker 3: But that test jersey is only yours when your name 181 00:09:54,093 --> 00:09:58,053 Speaker 3: for each week. And I don't think Damien's under any 182 00:09:58,053 --> 00:10:00,773 Speaker 3: illusions that Richie Wongan is probably coming back to New Zealand. 183 00:10:00,893 --> 00:10:05,213 Speaker 3: He was linked erroneously from our understanding a few weeks 184 00:10:05,213 --> 00:10:08,213 Speaker 3: ago with a move to France. But I don't think 185 00:10:08,333 --> 00:10:11,533 Speaker 3: A's under any illusions that the likelihood is that Richiem 186 00:10:11,533 --> 00:10:13,333 Speaker 3: wong is coming back to New Zealand at some point, 187 00:10:13,333 --> 00:10:16,493 Speaker 3: and he'll have a real fight to have that ten 188 00:10:16,613 --> 00:10:20,373 Speaker 3: jersey on his hands come twenty twenty five, assuming m 189 00:10:20,493 --> 00:10:24,853 Speaker 3: Longer is eligible at that point. So look, I'm sure 190 00:10:25,773 --> 00:10:30,493 Speaker 3: for Damien it's you know, he hasn't had a test 191 00:10:30,533 --> 00:10:34,933 Speaker 3: this year. We'd go, yep, that's that Steel Black's ten. 192 00:10:35,013 --> 00:10:36,773 Speaker 3: There's gonna be a real competition on his hands if 193 00:10:36,853 --> 00:10:39,093 Speaker 3: Richie Moore comes home. I think that's more the issue. 194 00:10:39,253 --> 00:10:42,413 Speaker 3: Not sure Rotson saying the media, but Damien McKenzie has 195 00:10:42,453 --> 00:10:46,373 Speaker 3: had ample opportunities now to own a Test match and go, well, 196 00:10:46,613 --> 00:10:49,973 Speaker 3: maybe she comes back. Richie's on the bench option and 197 00:10:50,013 --> 00:10:52,613 Speaker 3: we haven't seen that yet. We're talking about Damien McKenzie's 198 00:10:52,853 --> 00:10:55,733 Speaker 3: era making the game management last twenty thirty minutes. So 199 00:10:56,493 --> 00:10:59,293 Speaker 3: for Damien McKenzie, I think it's a matter of concentrating 200 00:10:59,333 --> 00:11:01,293 Speaker 3: on what he can do on the park rather than 201 00:11:01,293 --> 00:11:03,573 Speaker 3: worrying what his coach says in the media. 202 00:11:03,893 --> 00:11:07,453 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair to a point. But I 203 00:11:07,493 --> 00:11:12,893 Speaker 2: think if Scott Robinson's not mentioning Anymonger, maybe it's a 204 00:11:12,933 --> 00:11:18,213 Speaker 2: bit easier for him. The other The other issue here 205 00:11:18,293 --> 00:11:20,853 Speaker 2: for me, we don't know the messages behind the scenes 206 00:11:20,853 --> 00:11:23,573 Speaker 2: in terms of communication, but is there a bit of 207 00:11:23,613 --> 00:11:28,893 Speaker 2: a clash of styles here because McKenzie, his career is, 208 00:11:29,173 --> 00:11:32,613 Speaker 2: particularly as a ten, is about balancing his natural instincts 209 00:11:32,613 --> 00:11:35,893 Speaker 2: with game management. That comes with kicking and getting teams 210 00:11:36,373 --> 00:11:38,493 Speaker 2: and the right you know, driving them around the park, 211 00:11:39,293 --> 00:11:41,413 Speaker 2: taking the right options at the right time, particularly in 212 00:11:41,453 --> 00:11:43,853 Speaker 2: the back end of matches. And that's not only on him, 213 00:11:44,133 --> 00:11:46,013 Speaker 2: that's on your full back and your half back and 214 00:11:46,053 --> 00:11:49,653 Speaker 2: your full pack and the rest of it. But McKenzie's 215 00:11:49,693 --> 00:11:53,973 Speaker 2: natural instinct is to run, run, and gun, to have 216 00:11:54,053 --> 00:11:58,493 Speaker 2: those flipballs that we saw go wrong and Razor talked about, 217 00:11:58,653 --> 00:12:00,573 Speaker 2: you know, those are his natural gifts and he's got 218 00:12:00,613 --> 00:12:06,413 Speaker 2: to you know, play with instinct. And that's true. But 219 00:12:06,453 --> 00:12:08,733 Speaker 2: if you think about the Crusaders team and the way 220 00:12:08,813 --> 00:12:13,213 Speaker 2: Muhonga played, Yes, there was that flare at certain moments 221 00:12:13,253 --> 00:12:17,333 Speaker 2: when they really needed him, but he was that game driver, yeah, quarterback, 222 00:12:17,493 --> 00:12:20,693 Speaker 2: and he put them in areas where their set piece 223 00:12:20,733 --> 00:12:22,973 Speaker 2: could dominate, where they could get the rolling wall going. 224 00:12:23,533 --> 00:12:27,973 Speaker 2: And McKenzie's probably not doing that at the right moments. 225 00:12:28,093 --> 00:12:30,373 Speaker 2: And so as a wee bit of a clash of 226 00:12:30,413 --> 00:12:34,013 Speaker 2: styles between McKenzie's natural instincts and what the oblocks and 227 00:12:34,173 --> 00:12:35,853 Speaker 2: test rugby actually requires. 228 00:12:36,253 --> 00:12:38,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love I spoke to Damien in Cape 229 00:12:38,853 --> 00:12:43,213 Speaker 3: Town around that and he volunteered that game management is 230 00:12:43,293 --> 00:12:46,293 Speaker 3: his biggest work on and I think it's evident for 231 00:12:46,333 --> 00:12:49,693 Speaker 3: ever to see on the part that he's still trying 232 00:12:49,693 --> 00:12:51,453 Speaker 3: to get that right when it comes to test level. 233 00:12:51,533 --> 00:12:55,893 Speaker 3: Very different from Super Rugby managing a game and Super 234 00:12:55,973 --> 00:12:59,253 Speaker 3: Rugby you kick on to an early lead very rare 235 00:12:59,293 --> 00:13:02,173 Speaker 3: as a team come back. That's just the nature of 236 00:13:02,213 --> 00:13:05,053 Speaker 3: Super Rugby. You can blow out to a twenty eight 237 00:13:05,053 --> 00:13:07,173 Speaker 3: to seven lead. I'd say there would be very few 238 00:13:07,173 --> 00:13:09,573 Speaker 3: occasions where teams come back from that. In Super rugue 239 00:13:09,573 --> 00:13:13,293 Speaker 3: be its very much just doesn't happen. Whereas Test rugby, 240 00:13:13,373 --> 00:13:16,973 Speaker 3: things can change on a dime, Various elements of a 241 00:13:17,013 --> 00:13:17,853 Speaker 3: game can change and. 242 00:13:18,133 --> 00:13:19,493 Speaker 2: Players can get back into it. 243 00:13:19,573 --> 00:13:22,093 Speaker 3: So I think that's a big lesson for Damien at 244 00:13:22,093 --> 00:13:25,213 Speaker 3: this point in time and still growing. You know, he's 245 00:13:25,213 --> 00:13:29,493 Speaker 3: played what fifty tests for his country, but and people say, well, 246 00:13:29,533 --> 00:13:31,093 Speaker 3: you should be a game manager by now, but he 247 00:13:31,173 --> 00:13:34,813 Speaker 3: really hasn't had this run at ten in his career 248 00:13:34,853 --> 00:13:37,973 Speaker 3: to this point. He's had eight straight tests at ten. 249 00:13:38,453 --> 00:13:40,773 Speaker 3: He certainly hasn't had as this many in a row 250 00:13:41,013 --> 00:13:46,493 Speaker 3: as a player at ten. So that's still coming to him, 251 00:13:46,573 --> 00:13:49,653 Speaker 3: but it needs to come quickly. And I guess we 252 00:13:49,733 --> 00:13:52,013 Speaker 3: have this question this week and we'll get into some changes, 253 00:13:52,093 --> 00:13:55,013 Speaker 3: perhaps later on the podcast. But do the All Blacks 254 00:13:55,013 --> 00:13:57,613 Speaker 3: make a change this week? They've seen Damien McKenzie for 255 00:13:57,653 --> 00:14:00,973 Speaker 3: eight straight tests. Is it likely that maybe with the 256 00:14:00,973 --> 00:14:03,733 Speaker 3: Bleederslow cup wrapped up now, they look at someone different 257 00:14:03,813 --> 00:14:05,013 Speaker 3: for this weekend? 258 00:14:06,213 --> 00:14:09,173 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it probably he needed to happen 259 00:14:09,213 --> 00:14:13,773 Speaker 2: before now. I think the other issue though, is Boden 260 00:14:13,813 --> 00:14:17,493 Speaker 2: Barratts as the next guy, and he actually hasn't played 261 00:14:17,533 --> 00:14:20,533 Speaker 2: ten for the All Blacks for a couple of years, 262 00:14:21,133 --> 00:14:27,253 Speaker 2: so there are options there, but are they are compelling? 263 00:14:27,613 --> 00:14:30,413 Speaker 2: Not sure, but we need to find out. I think 264 00:14:31,053 --> 00:14:35,813 Speaker 2: Harry Plummer is another guy. Stephen Petifetter is injured. His 265 00:14:36,013 --> 00:14:39,413 Speaker 2: calf came at a really an opportune time. I'm a 266 00:14:39,413 --> 00:14:42,293 Speaker 2: big fan of Stephen Petefetter, but the depth of ten 267 00:14:42,373 --> 00:14:45,293 Speaker 2: in his Zellan rugby is not great and so that's 268 00:14:45,373 --> 00:14:48,653 Speaker 2: why I think Scott Robson has backed him mackenzie and 269 00:14:48,973 --> 00:14:52,613 Speaker 2: given him the reins and trusted him. But I think 270 00:14:52,653 --> 00:14:54,533 Speaker 2: now is the time, like you say, with the Bleslow 271 00:14:54,573 --> 00:14:58,933 Speaker 2: locked away, to give Boden a crack. He was sick 272 00:14:59,053 --> 00:15:02,013 Speaker 2: last week, went down late in the week late withdrawal, 273 00:15:02,853 --> 00:15:07,133 Speaker 2: but by all accounts is bouncing back. We're talking a 274 00:15:07,133 --> 00:15:10,293 Speaker 2: lot about the All Blacks. What about the Wallabies? Did 275 00:15:10,293 --> 00:15:12,613 Speaker 2: the All Blacks make the Wallabies look good? And what 276 00:15:12,653 --> 00:15:15,173 Speaker 2: are your expectations for the Wallabies this week? 277 00:15:16,613 --> 00:15:18,653 Speaker 3: Yes, I think All Blacks to make the Wallabies look good. 278 00:15:19,773 --> 00:15:22,653 Speaker 3: It was a lot of All Blacks eras compounding eras 279 00:15:23,413 --> 00:15:27,133 Speaker 3: that allowed the Wallabies back into the game. And ruthless 280 00:15:27,133 --> 00:15:30,093 Speaker 3: All Black side would have pumped this Wallabies team by fifty, 281 00:15:30,213 --> 00:15:32,573 Speaker 3: maybe even sixty points, that's what they were on the 282 00:15:32,613 --> 00:15:35,733 Speaker 3: track for. So the All Blacks shouldn't have allowed the 283 00:15:35,733 --> 00:15:38,533 Speaker 3: Wallabies back into the game. And it felt like every 284 00:15:38,533 --> 00:15:41,333 Speaker 3: time after a certain point, after maybe even a half 285 00:15:41,333 --> 00:15:43,613 Speaker 3: hour mark, once they got into the wallabyes twenty two, 286 00:15:43,613 --> 00:15:46,293 Speaker 3: they'd be an era. They give the ball up, the 287 00:15:46,613 --> 00:15:49,933 Speaker 3: conceded penalty, whatever it might be, and that allowed the 288 00:15:49,933 --> 00:15:52,893 Speaker 3: Wallabies back in it. I thought there was some pretty 289 00:15:52,933 --> 00:15:56,333 Speaker 3: soft defense at times from the All Blacks, especially the 290 00:15:56,333 --> 00:16:00,173 Speaker 3: two Wallabies tries in the first spell when they scored 291 00:16:00,213 --> 00:16:03,293 Speaker 3: from a fastler I think was scored from the line 292 00:16:03,613 --> 00:16:07,093 Speaker 3: lineup more and Cain missed the tackle on him. There 293 00:16:07,693 --> 00:16:09,133 Speaker 3: the one where the up the All Blacks in the 294 00:16:09,133 --> 00:16:10,973 Speaker 3: middle of the park and the first spell as well 295 00:16:10,973 --> 00:16:15,173 Speaker 3: through mckwright that was poor All Black's defense or a 296 00:16:15,173 --> 00:16:18,133 Speaker 3: defensive read. They're gone wrong and then they opened the 297 00:16:18,133 --> 00:16:20,173 Speaker 3: door and allowed the Wallabies to get back in the game. 298 00:16:20,253 --> 00:16:23,093 Speaker 3: Now there were soon Wallaby's individuals that impressed me. I 299 00:16:23,133 --> 00:16:26,533 Speaker 3: thought Frais mc rydan and Harry Wilson were very very good. 300 00:16:26,613 --> 00:16:30,053 Speaker 3: Rob Valentin he wasn't too bad either. You know, Lennikow 301 00:16:30,133 --> 00:16:34,293 Speaker 3: and hunter Bay summary a good midfield combination. But they 302 00:16:34,293 --> 00:16:36,173 Speaker 3: were only in this game on the back of the 303 00:16:36,213 --> 00:16:38,853 Speaker 3: All Blacks allowing them and they basically kept the door 304 00:16:38,853 --> 00:16:41,653 Speaker 3: a jar the All Blacks and the Wallabies keep on 305 00:16:41,693 --> 00:16:44,053 Speaker 3: sneaking through and the All Blacks. 306 00:16:43,853 --> 00:16:44,693 Speaker 2: Did and jam it shut. 307 00:16:44,813 --> 00:16:48,613 Speaker 3: So that might sound harsh on the Wallabies, but you know, 308 00:16:49,173 --> 00:16:51,373 Speaker 3: there were twenty eight seven down, the twenty one Niel down. 309 00:16:51,933 --> 00:16:54,133 Speaker 3: They were only backing it because of the All Blacks 310 00:16:54,173 --> 00:16:55,453 Speaker 3: and competence at times. 311 00:16:55,973 --> 00:16:58,053 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think the All Black should have 312 00:16:58,053 --> 00:16:59,973 Speaker 2: put the foot on the throat, should have put the 313 00:16:59,973 --> 00:17:03,213 Speaker 2: Wallabies away. Defensively, the All Blacks should not be conceding 314 00:17:03,213 --> 00:17:06,493 Speaker 2: twenty eight points to the Wallaby's team. There needs to 315 00:17:06,493 --> 00:17:09,293 Speaker 2: be yes, they scramble. We showed a lot of character 316 00:17:09,333 --> 00:17:11,973 Speaker 2: when there were two men short in the closing stages. 317 00:17:12,093 --> 00:17:14,813 Speaker 2: It was a couple of massive turnovers on their own line. 318 00:17:14,813 --> 00:17:19,293 Speaker 2: I think it was Luke Jacobson and was it Wallace 319 00:17:19,333 --> 00:17:23,213 Speaker 2: a t T. And there was the mall turnover that 320 00:17:23,693 --> 00:17:25,973 Speaker 2: killed the game off at the death. But like you say, 321 00:17:25,973 --> 00:17:29,573 Speaker 2: there's some glaring errors as well. So they should have 322 00:17:29,613 --> 00:17:32,173 Speaker 2: put the Wallabies to the sword and they didn't and 323 00:17:32,173 --> 00:17:34,933 Speaker 2: that will be where the clips come this week. 324 00:17:35,053 --> 00:17:37,773 Speaker 3: And even hearing from Joe Schmitt post game, he didn't 325 00:17:37,813 --> 00:17:40,613 Speaker 3: really feel like they just got close to the All Blacks. 326 00:17:40,653 --> 00:17:43,133 Speaker 3: It felt like, well the All Blacks missed a couple 327 00:17:43,173 --> 00:17:47,093 Speaker 3: of opportunities and we were sick and best. And I 328 00:17:47,133 --> 00:17:49,173 Speaker 3: think there's a sense from Joe Schmitt that he'll be 329 00:17:49,213 --> 00:17:51,733 Speaker 3: concentrating more on the opening thirty minutes and what went 330 00:17:51,773 --> 00:17:53,613 Speaker 3: wrong there than the fact they got two with them 331 00:17:53,613 --> 00:17:54,533 Speaker 3: three points at the end. 332 00:17:54,973 --> 00:17:58,333 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a right. What about the let's talk about 333 00:17:58,493 --> 00:18:01,453 Speaker 2: Joe Schmitt? He was asked should the bledder as though 334 00:18:01,533 --> 00:18:04,213 Speaker 2: be three tests? We could now come to Wellington. It's 335 00:18:04,213 --> 00:18:08,653 Speaker 2: sold out test here where it is interesting because earlier 336 00:18:08,973 --> 00:18:11,213 Speaker 2: couple you know what was it last month when the 337 00:18:11,213 --> 00:18:13,253 Speaker 2: Pumas were here beat the All Blacks it was half 338 00:18:13,293 --> 00:18:15,773 Speaker 2: full stadium, So this has sold out test, but the 339 00:18:15,773 --> 00:18:18,333 Speaker 2: Blizzlow's not on the line. I don't believe there's no 340 00:18:18,893 --> 00:18:21,693 Speaker 2: dead rubber friendly tests. I don't buy into that at all. 341 00:18:22,093 --> 00:18:26,933 Speaker 2: But it would be more engrossing contests if the Blaerzlow 342 00:18:27,013 --> 00:18:28,653 Speaker 2: was still up for grabs. So all of these could 343 00:18:28,693 --> 00:18:32,013 Speaker 2: potentially bounce back, but it has been a bit one 344 00:18:32,093 --> 00:18:34,573 Speaker 2: sided in recent years. The Blazlow contest is probably not 345 00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:36,853 Speaker 2: a great deal of interest from New Zealand Rugby to 346 00:18:36,933 --> 00:18:40,373 Speaker 2: extend it out beyond two tests. What's your read on that? Jochma, 347 00:18:40,493 --> 00:18:43,453 Speaker 2: interestingly enough, said I was quite happy with how it 348 00:18:43,493 --> 00:18:46,093 Speaker 2: wasn't last year when I was in the All Blacks, 349 00:18:46,293 --> 00:18:49,133 Speaker 2: and now I'd like it to be having you jump 350 00:18:49,213 --> 00:18:51,173 Speaker 2: the fence. Now, I'd like it to be three tests. 351 00:18:51,613 --> 00:18:56,133 Speaker 3: Well, no, I don't agree with judgment because the fact 352 00:18:56,173 --> 00:18:58,133 Speaker 3: of the matter is, but and this is one match, 353 00:18:58,133 --> 00:19:00,133 Speaker 3: You've still got to win two matches to win the Blittesloader. 354 00:19:00,133 --> 00:19:02,493 Speaker 3: Whether it's two or three, you're still going to win 355 00:19:02,533 --> 00:19:04,613 Speaker 3: two matches to win the Blutaslow. That's a simple task 356 00:19:04,613 --> 00:19:08,733 Speaker 3: for Australia, so effectively, you win the series two nil 357 00:19:08,813 --> 00:19:10,493 Speaker 3: or two one, you've still got the blood is thow 358 00:19:10,533 --> 00:19:14,493 Speaker 3: there for Australia. So no, I don't necessarily get that 359 00:19:14,693 --> 00:19:16,773 Speaker 3: argument if it's a one off test and that makes 360 00:19:16,813 --> 00:19:18,613 Speaker 3: it different. It's up for grabs every time these two 361 00:19:18,653 --> 00:19:21,653 Speaker 3: sides play. But no, I think the task is still 362 00:19:21,653 --> 00:19:23,413 Speaker 3: there for the Wallabyes. You either've got to win, yeah, 363 00:19:23,533 --> 00:19:26,013 Speaker 3: series two one, whatever it might be if it's three 364 00:19:26,013 --> 00:19:30,053 Speaker 3: tests series. So just you know, the thing with the 365 00:19:30,093 --> 00:19:32,853 Speaker 3: wallaby is that I just don't ever see them returning 366 00:19:32,893 --> 00:19:34,573 Speaker 3: to the top of a rugby. 367 00:19:34,253 --> 00:19:36,533 Speaker 2: And now tenth in the world. Yeah as ee a 368 00:19:36,693 --> 00:19:38,373 Speaker 2: sorry Fiji when I hit of them at the weekend. 369 00:19:38,493 --> 00:19:40,493 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this might sound harshenf coming off a backup 370 00:19:40,493 --> 00:19:42,973 Speaker 3: a three point loss to the All Blacks, but I 371 00:19:43,093 --> 00:19:47,253 Speaker 3: just don't see them ever returning to those pretty special 372 00:19:47,333 --> 00:19:52,533 Speaker 3: heights of the nineteen nineties early two thousands. There is 373 00:19:52,573 --> 00:19:55,773 Speaker 3: nothing in the Australian rugby at the moment that suggests 374 00:19:55,773 --> 00:19:58,453 Speaker 3: that they're genuinely capable of doing so I don't see 375 00:19:58,453 --> 00:19:59,253 Speaker 3: it coming. 376 00:20:00,613 --> 00:20:00,813 Speaker 2: Yeah. 377 00:20:00,813 --> 00:20:02,973 Speaker 3: The Bledders, I say, for another year and All Blacks 378 00:20:02,973 --> 00:20:05,613 Speaker 3: poor performance was still good enough to win by three. 379 00:20:06,213 --> 00:20:09,773 Speaker 2: Yeah they have. I saw us stat at the weekends 380 00:20:09,813 --> 00:20:15,813 Speaker 2: that rugby in Australia is the night most participated sport. Yeah, 381 00:20:15,893 --> 00:20:18,133 Speaker 2: counts you. That really hit me between the eyes. 382 00:20:18,653 --> 00:20:22,493 Speaker 3: Yeah. It has fallen off the thing with Australia. And 383 00:20:22,693 --> 00:20:24,653 Speaker 3: you know this is very Richard in Yonder to say 384 00:20:24,813 --> 00:20:26,733 Speaker 3: coming from the outside looking at but they love winners 385 00:20:26,933 --> 00:20:30,413 Speaker 3: and Australia and rugby needs to win to get some 386 00:20:30,733 --> 00:20:34,213 Speaker 3: supporters back again and kids back playing rugby. 387 00:20:34,253 --> 00:20:35,533 Speaker 2: They it's kind of like. 388 00:20:35,613 --> 00:20:39,773 Speaker 3: You know what comes first, Well, all the business that 389 00:20:39,813 --> 00:20:41,293 Speaker 3: are just spend money to make money, you've kind of 390 00:20:41,293 --> 00:20:43,333 Speaker 3: actually got to get that success a little bit before 391 00:20:43,333 --> 00:20:46,293 Speaker 3: you and show the world what you can do before 392 00:20:46,293 --> 00:20:48,093 Speaker 3: people come on board and jump on board. And I 393 00:20:48,133 --> 00:20:50,413 Speaker 3: think that's going to be the really tough task for 394 00:20:50,533 --> 00:20:54,213 Speaker 3: rugby Australia managing to do that because it's just not 395 00:20:54,253 --> 00:20:55,333 Speaker 3: in a place where they're doing so. 396 00:20:55,453 --> 00:20:56,813 Speaker 2: It reached some really big heights. 397 00:20:56,853 --> 00:20:58,613 Speaker 3: You know, the host of the three World cover course 398 00:20:58,813 --> 00:21:01,053 Speaker 3: had a really good Wallaby team in that era and 399 00:21:01,333 --> 00:21:04,093 Speaker 3: it was a legitimately big sport in it it's fallen off, 400 00:21:04,133 --> 00:21:07,453 Speaker 3: so I rugby doesn't have great viewership there on PACV 401 00:21:07,573 --> 00:21:11,093 Speaker 3: or stands sport that once I would say though, is 402 00:21:11,093 --> 00:21:12,213 Speaker 3: it polsing crowd still? 403 00:21:12,373 --> 00:21:15,653 Speaker 2: Well? I was about made that point that it was 404 00:21:15,693 --> 00:21:19,653 Speaker 2: a massive advertisement for daytime rugby, wasn't it three forty 405 00:21:19,693 --> 00:21:23,613 Speaker 2: five pm kickoff local time in Sydney? Sixty eight thousand? 406 00:21:23,693 --> 00:21:26,573 Speaker 2: Great turnout for a weekend in which you had the 407 00:21:26,613 --> 00:21:32,013 Speaker 2: AFL Finals. You insert the Sharks and Cowboys on the 408 00:21:33,253 --> 00:21:36,893 Speaker 2: Friday night and then the Roosters played the played Manly 409 00:21:37,053 --> 00:21:40,293 Speaker 2: on the Saturday straight after the All Black So massive weekend, 410 00:21:40,373 --> 00:21:42,613 Speaker 2: sporting weekend of Sydney and they've still got sixty eight 411 00:21:42,653 --> 00:21:46,173 Speaker 2: thousand to a course stadium, So great turn out there. 412 00:21:46,213 --> 00:21:50,013 Speaker 2: And look, I do expect Joshmitt to make the Wallabies 413 00:21:50,053 --> 00:21:53,693 Speaker 2: competitive and they do have a platform to relaunch the 414 00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:57,453 Speaker 2: sport back into the you know, to gain more profile 415 00:21:57,493 --> 00:22:00,933 Speaker 2: with the Lions coming with a home World Cup. So 416 00:22:01,573 --> 00:22:04,293 Speaker 2: it's not all doom and gloom, but there are massive 417 00:22:04,373 --> 00:22:09,133 Speaker 2: challenges from a financial perspective. I have touched on a 418 00:22:09,213 --> 00:22:11,253 Speaker 2: number of different talking points, a lot of them negative. 419 00:22:11,373 --> 00:22:16,333 Speaker 2: I just do want to touch on a couple of 420 00:22:16,493 --> 00:22:20,053 Speaker 2: great performances, individual performances. Wallace a TC He's been a 421 00:22:20,093 --> 00:22:23,933 Speaker 2: revelation at Blood so I thinker. But for me, Cortez 422 00:22:24,013 --> 00:22:27,013 Speaker 2: Latima was by far and away the best All Black 423 00:22:27,053 --> 00:22:29,293 Speaker 2: on the park at the weekend, not just what he 424 00:22:29,373 --> 00:22:31,893 Speaker 2: did with his speed to the base. I thought his 425 00:22:32,013 --> 00:22:36,653 Speaker 2: kicking has really improved. He has sniping run, set up 426 00:22:37,053 --> 00:22:40,573 Speaker 2: Rikowane for his first try since the World Cup last year, 427 00:22:41,933 --> 00:22:48,253 Speaker 2: and his defense he absolutely clobbed Marika Corobetti the stinging 428 00:22:48,413 --> 00:22:51,853 Speaker 2: shoulder after that and Corobtty is a ball of muscle, 429 00:22:52,573 --> 00:22:54,733 Speaker 2: so he loves getting stuck into the physical side of 430 00:22:54,733 --> 00:22:57,973 Speaker 2: the game. And the future halfback finis On is really bright. 431 00:22:58,133 --> 00:23:01,733 Speaker 2: Cam Rouygad returns to the All Blacks training this week. 432 00:23:01,813 --> 00:23:05,333 Speaker 2: He will return has comeback first match since pre season 433 00:23:06,053 --> 00:23:09,493 Speaker 2: for County's Monaco. I think this week, next week, next 434 00:23:09,533 --> 00:23:14,533 Speaker 2: weekends and Noah Hopham is another real prospect. So there 435 00:23:14,573 --> 00:23:16,853 Speaker 2: are a lot of issues for the All Blacks to address, 436 00:23:16,893 --> 00:23:21,093 Speaker 2: but I think halfback is not one. No, it's certainly not. 437 00:23:21,173 --> 00:23:26,053 Speaker 3: And Ratima has been superb and was again on the weekend. 438 00:23:26,253 --> 00:23:28,893 Speaker 3: Really enjoying his style and what he brings to the game. 439 00:23:29,133 --> 00:23:32,773 Speaker 3: And he's tough, he's hard, but he's got great vision, 440 00:23:32,813 --> 00:23:35,293 Speaker 3: great stiping, runs around the base of the ruck and 441 00:23:35,733 --> 00:23:39,133 Speaker 3: completely agreas those three half backs are going to be. 442 00:23:39,893 --> 00:23:41,693 Speaker 3: It's gonna be a really exciting challenge to see how 443 00:23:41,693 --> 00:23:44,053 Speaker 3: they will joss off a position over the next two 444 00:23:44,133 --> 00:23:45,453 Speaker 3: or three years and building to. 445 00:23:47,013 --> 00:23:48,893 Speaker 2: Hopefully world class half backs. 446 00:23:48,973 --> 00:23:51,253 Speaker 3: And what is the teasy you know again, a player 447 00:23:51,293 --> 00:23:54,973 Speaker 3: that doesn't look daunted by test level at all. Mister 448 00:23:54,973 --> 00:23:57,733 Speaker 3: Fy tackles in Cape Town but was still excellent on 449 00:23:57,773 --> 00:24:02,293 Speaker 3: that night and I think grew again on Saturday afternoon 450 00:24:02,333 --> 00:24:04,373 Speaker 3: in Sydney. So really exciting to see what he can 451 00:24:04,413 --> 00:24:06,933 Speaker 3: do heading forward. Right, we'll take a break here on 452 00:24:07,013 --> 00:24:09,373 Speaker 3: Rugby direc come back with these and half of the 453 00:24:09,453 --> 00:24:13,333 Speaker 3: podcast Powered by Excess Solutions elevating you and your business 454 00:24:13,373 --> 00:24:14,733 Speaker 3: to a higher level. 455 00:24:17,973 --> 00:24:24,253 Speaker 2: Talent Badies talks Ever Try Try had sixty every tackle 456 00:24:24,333 --> 00:24:32,013 Speaker 2: to tackle Get up again. It's Rugby Direct Talent Badies. 457 00:24:32,933 --> 00:24:35,533 Speaker 3: You're back with Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions. Time 458 00:24:35,573 --> 00:24:37,493 Speaker 3: to get into our final four and plenty to get 459 00:24:37,533 --> 00:24:41,093 Speaker 3: stuck into here. We're going to change tech temporarily though. 460 00:24:42,653 --> 00:24:45,373 Speaker 3: It's great to be on the ESPN Scrum Reset podcast 461 00:24:46,293 --> 00:24:48,253 Speaker 3: ahead of bleders Low one. You might have heard it 462 00:24:48,293 --> 00:24:50,893 Speaker 3: at our Feet as well, or watched it with the 463 00:24:50,933 --> 00:24:54,733 Speaker 3: boys Simmy Bruceon and Christy Douran from Australia. Good to 464 00:24:55,173 --> 00:24:58,413 Speaker 3: hit at Disney Studios in Sydney and chew the fat 465 00:24:58,413 --> 00:25:00,853 Speaker 3: with those fellas. But one thing that did come out 466 00:25:01,693 --> 00:25:08,293 Speaker 3: when we went for a post podcast settler was yes 467 00:25:08,373 --> 00:25:12,813 Speaker 3: schooner were some of the Australian rugby journos had put 468 00:25:12,853 --> 00:25:18,613 Speaker 3: together the trans tasment team of the professional era and 469 00:25:18,653 --> 00:25:21,493 Speaker 3: there was some interesting selections that you know over a 470 00:25:21,573 --> 00:25:25,013 Speaker 3: schooner caused plenty of debate, lim I know you've been 471 00:25:25,333 --> 00:25:28,733 Speaker 3: leaked the team by a source. Do you mind reading 472 00:25:28,733 --> 00:25:30,253 Speaker 3: through it for us if you possibly could? 473 00:25:30,333 --> 00:25:31,893 Speaker 2: It would be my pleasure out of that because it 474 00:25:31,973 --> 00:25:35,213 Speaker 2: will cause a lot of debate. And it's fair to 475 00:25:35,253 --> 00:25:39,173 Speaker 2: say there was a good eight odd Ossie journos and 476 00:25:39,213 --> 00:25:41,293 Speaker 2: they'd clearly put a lot of work into this, a 477 00:25:41,293 --> 00:25:45,453 Speaker 2: lot of debate over a number of schooners. So without 478 00:25:45,493 --> 00:25:49,013 Speaker 2: further ado, I start sure to start at fallback, because 479 00:25:49,413 --> 00:25:51,653 Speaker 2: I regon started fall back. This is this is the 480 00:25:51,733 --> 00:25:57,173 Speaker 2: most controversial, So sit down, make yourself comfy because they've 481 00:25:57,173 --> 00:26:02,613 Speaker 2: gone Matt Burke at they went Ben Smith on the 482 00:26:02,693 --> 00:26:05,093 Speaker 2: right wing. Although there was a bit of debates about 483 00:26:05,093 --> 00:26:11,013 Speaker 2: whether Israel Filow should be there midfield. Mar highly controversial 484 00:26:11,453 --> 00:26:14,653 Speaker 2: at center, basically never played there in his career. Tim 485 00:26:14,693 --> 00:26:19,813 Speaker 2: Horem left wing, Joan Olmu Carter, Aaron Smith, Totai Kfu 486 00:26:19,973 --> 00:26:26,453 Speaker 2: number eights, Richie mccare, George Smith at blindside, flanker, Sam 487 00:26:26,493 --> 00:26:30,133 Speaker 2: Whitelocke and John Eels and the Locke in combination on 488 00:26:30,293 --> 00:26:34,853 Speaker 2: Frank's Cody Taylor, Tony Woodcock and the reserves Dane Cole's 489 00:26:34,933 --> 00:26:39,653 Speaker 2: Joe Moody, Taniella two po. I think like that one 490 00:26:39,773 --> 00:26:44,213 Speaker 2: summer Brody Ritzel, like Artie Severe, George Gregen Bodenberger and 491 00:26:44,453 --> 00:26:47,493 Speaker 2: Tana Well. 492 00:26:47,653 --> 00:26:50,773 Speaker 3: You hear that team and it's really you know, if 493 00:26:50,773 --> 00:26:53,013 Speaker 3: that's what's selected there, it's really no surprise the world's 494 00:26:53,013 --> 00:26:55,013 Speaker 3: having won the bladers Low they've selected there, you know, 495 00:26:55,053 --> 00:26:58,333 Speaker 3: if this is a symptomatic of their entire country. Look, 496 00:26:59,653 --> 00:27:03,693 Speaker 3: Matt Burke at fullback is an interesting one. I sort 497 00:27:03,693 --> 00:27:06,813 Speaker 3: of played a lot a little bit on Thursday night 498 00:27:08,173 --> 00:27:10,293 Speaker 3: and suedest to that I always feared Matt Burke, which 499 00:27:10,333 --> 00:27:14,293 Speaker 3: is true. But yeah, I just don't know quite some 500 00:27:14,333 --> 00:27:16,333 Speaker 3: of those selections there. I maybe you can make the 501 00:27:16,413 --> 00:27:18,253 Speaker 3: argument that Christian Callen was a bit of central wing. 502 00:27:18,253 --> 00:27:21,293 Speaker 3: It's certainly multiple All Blacks coaches tried to do that. 503 00:27:21,453 --> 00:27:23,813 Speaker 3: So yeah, I loved him at center though great in 504 00:27:23,853 --> 00:27:26,653 Speaker 3: the twitter don't know nine World Cup that really helped 505 00:27:26,653 --> 00:27:29,653 Speaker 3: out the All Blacks. So there he had well five 506 00:27:29,733 --> 00:27:31,733 Speaker 3: tests into I think, And if you're on the right wing, 507 00:27:31,813 --> 00:27:34,413 Speaker 3: maybe maybe that's where the Wallabies were going Assie selectors 508 00:27:34,493 --> 00:27:35,133 Speaker 3: rather be going. 509 00:27:35,693 --> 00:27:38,773 Speaker 2: You know, maybe you want to see more of it center. Yes, 510 00:27:38,933 --> 00:27:41,693 Speaker 2: what's stood out for you? Look, I think you can't 511 00:27:41,693 --> 00:27:46,453 Speaker 2: go past Nonavan Smith. Timboran was a great, genuine great, Yes, 512 00:27:46,853 --> 00:27:50,173 Speaker 2: you can't go past Nonavos Smith. In my mind, the 513 00:27:50,253 --> 00:27:54,213 Speaker 2: greatest midfield combination of all time Jerome Cano has to 514 00:27:54,253 --> 00:27:58,093 Speaker 2: be at blind Side's. Yeah, Matt Burke, sorry, does not 515 00:27:58,213 --> 00:28:01,813 Speaker 2: make it. So it's fair to say Taliaa Tupo would 516 00:28:01,813 --> 00:28:09,253 Speaker 2: not be near my greatest all time Bleslo Can team either. 517 00:28:09,373 --> 00:28:13,133 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's always good to have some healthy debates. 518 00:28:15,013 --> 00:28:17,053 Speaker 3: I can see the is ruffle our argument to an extent, 519 00:28:17,093 --> 00:28:19,133 Speaker 3: though he was very good on the right wing. 520 00:28:19,213 --> 00:28:22,373 Speaker 2: Maybe phenomenal athlete, brilliant in the air. I think there's 521 00:28:22,413 --> 00:28:24,613 Speaker 2: a strong case for him for sure. 522 00:28:25,573 --> 00:28:27,973 Speaker 3: Yeah, listen back to that team if you want, and 523 00:28:28,173 --> 00:28:30,413 Speaker 3: you can give us some feedback as well, or some 524 00:28:30,453 --> 00:28:32,773 Speaker 3: of the AUSSI knows feedback next week on the podcast 525 00:28:32,933 --> 00:28:34,933 Speaker 3: We'd love Yeah. 526 00:28:35,453 --> 00:28:36,973 Speaker 2: Names and Numbers. 527 00:28:38,013 --> 00:28:42,453 Speaker 3: Box Argentina a big surprise there to an extent Argentina 528 00:28:42,893 --> 00:28:46,173 Speaker 3: twenty nine, the spring Box twenty eight. Now you can say, yeah, 529 00:28:46,253 --> 00:28:48,613 Speaker 3: so Avery were missing a couple of their big names. 530 00:28:49,093 --> 00:28:51,733 Speaker 3: You know, they made Libot coming off the bench, Paulood 531 00:28:51,773 --> 00:28:54,573 Speaker 3: started at ten and Libock missed the penalty that would 532 00:28:54,573 --> 00:28:57,373 Speaker 3: have won them the game. It's Abeth only came off 533 00:28:57,373 --> 00:29:00,773 Speaker 3: the bench. Calisi wasn't there at all. So you can 534 00:29:00,853 --> 00:29:02,653 Speaker 3: go about that, or you can look at the other side, 535 00:29:02,653 --> 00:29:04,493 Speaker 3: which is what I'm going to do and go Argentina 536 00:29:04,693 --> 00:29:07,733 Speaker 3: under Felippe Contopomi, who has only had them for a 537 00:29:07,773 --> 00:29:11,173 Speaker 3: couple of months it's now really three months. Look like 538 00:29:11,213 --> 00:29:14,853 Speaker 3: a team that is building very very nicely. First time 539 00:29:14,853 --> 00:29:18,373 Speaker 3: they've beaten Australia and New Zealand, South Africa and the 540 00:29:18,413 --> 00:29:23,333 Speaker 3: one Rugby Championship one calendar year. I think good on Argentina. 541 00:29:23,373 --> 00:29:25,653 Speaker 3: It keeps the Rugby Championship alive for another week, and 542 00:29:26,133 --> 00:29:28,013 Speaker 3: you know it's that sense of belief. You know, they've 543 00:29:28,013 --> 00:29:29,773 Speaker 3: talked a bit on the podcast about them trying to 544 00:29:29,773 --> 00:29:33,373 Speaker 3: back up performances. Well, they backed up a big performance 545 00:29:33,493 --> 00:29:35,493 Speaker 3: into Australia a couple of weeks later at Medley with 546 00:29:35,533 --> 00:29:39,053 Speaker 3: another one over argent out of South Africa. They ride 547 00:29:39,093 --> 00:29:41,493 Speaker 3: that emotion really really high. Now it's a really tough 548 00:29:41,533 --> 00:29:45,013 Speaker 3: test for Argentina but Hoosa, so they couldn't go and 549 00:29:45,053 --> 00:29:47,573 Speaker 3: win the Republic this weekend on that emotion, on that feeling, 550 00:29:48,693 --> 00:29:51,173 Speaker 3: Severians will get some players back. They're playing at home. 551 00:29:51,813 --> 00:29:53,693 Speaker 3: But there's a lot to like about this Argentina team 552 00:29:53,693 --> 00:29:54,173 Speaker 3: at the moment. 553 00:29:54,413 --> 00:29:57,013 Speaker 2: There is, And like you said, they've had some big scalps, 554 00:29:57,053 --> 00:29:58,733 Speaker 2: haven't they The All Blacks and w Wellings and nobody 555 00:29:59,053 --> 00:30:03,493 Speaker 2: gave them a shot there. They surprise loss at home 556 00:30:03,613 --> 00:30:06,493 Speaker 2: to the Wallabies at one point the last minute I 557 00:30:06,493 --> 00:30:09,853 Speaker 2: think it was Ben Donaldson penalty, and then they absolutely 558 00:30:09,853 --> 00:30:12,373 Speaker 2: pumped the Wallabies the following week. But this is this 559 00:30:12,413 --> 00:30:14,693 Speaker 2: is a big result of massive scalp. For them to 560 00:30:14,733 --> 00:30:16,893 Speaker 2: knock over the World champions doesn't matter where in the 561 00:30:16,893 --> 00:30:21,573 Speaker 2: world that happens and what circumstances. So I think you're 562 00:30:21,653 --> 00:30:24,453 Speaker 2: right that Felipe con Topoma has taken this team forward. 563 00:30:24,613 --> 00:30:28,093 Speaker 2: He's given them a real belief structure, bringing through some 564 00:30:28,213 --> 00:30:30,933 Speaker 2: talent I didn't see. I've only seen the highlights of 565 00:30:30,933 --> 00:30:33,693 Speaker 2: the game because we were out at Sydney Airport at 566 00:30:33,733 --> 00:30:36,453 Speaker 2: seven am and Scott Robinson was actually watching this game 567 00:30:36,493 --> 00:30:39,253 Speaker 2: live on his foe before we spoke to him. So 568 00:30:39,293 --> 00:30:41,053 Speaker 2: I have gone back and watched some of it, but 569 00:30:41,173 --> 00:30:44,333 Speaker 2: not the entirety of it. But I think it's good 570 00:30:44,413 --> 00:30:49,013 Speaker 2: for Southern Hemisphere world rugby to have the Pumas. You 571 00:30:49,053 --> 00:30:52,773 Speaker 2: know that they are World Cup semi finalists, but they 572 00:30:52,813 --> 00:30:54,653 Speaker 2: had a soft side of the draw last year and 573 00:30:54,693 --> 00:30:57,133 Speaker 2: I think they have improved markedly since then. 574 00:30:57,413 --> 00:30:59,573 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're on maybe about having it. Argentinian 575 00:30:59,613 --> 00:31:02,293 Speaker 3: coach them as well. They've had Michael Cheker in recent times. 576 00:31:02,293 --> 00:31:04,933 Speaker 3: Marially Desmitts got them some success for us one of 577 00:31:04,973 --> 00:31:08,773 Speaker 3: the All Blacks, but I think he's He's a quite coach, 578 00:31:08,813 --> 00:31:11,773 Speaker 3: has been seen in club level and now coming back 579 00:31:11,813 --> 00:31:14,413 Speaker 3: to coaches national side. Very very impressive. I think that 580 00:31:14,453 --> 00:31:16,973 Speaker 3: the takim to win the Rugby Championship is pretty difficult, 581 00:31:17,893 --> 00:31:19,453 Speaker 3: but even if they went over to so Africa and 582 00:31:19,493 --> 00:31:22,013 Speaker 3: won the test match in Suffaca win the Rugby Championship 583 00:31:22,013 --> 00:31:25,093 Speaker 3: by point, it's still a very very big win for Argentina. 584 00:31:25,213 --> 00:31:29,573 Speaker 3: If they'd beat in Australia in Argentina, it'd be all 585 00:31:29,613 --> 00:31:30,293 Speaker 3: on this weekend. 586 00:31:30,413 --> 00:31:34,413 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's great for the Rugby Championship to have 587 00:31:35,813 --> 00:31:39,253 Speaker 2: the elements of genuine competitiveness because it wasn't that long 588 00:31:39,293 --> 00:31:42,533 Speaker 2: ago the Pumas went through the Rugby Championship winless and 589 00:31:42,573 --> 00:31:47,613 Speaker 2: that was pretty consistent. Now, not just from a Wallabies. 590 00:31:47,693 --> 00:31:49,973 Speaker 2: You know, they don't just knock over the Wallabies. There's 591 00:31:50,093 --> 00:31:52,653 Speaker 2: genuine interrepidation whenever they played the All Blacks. 592 00:31:52,933 --> 00:31:55,733 Speaker 3: There is I wrote a column last week sort of 593 00:31:55,813 --> 00:32:00,173 Speaker 3: saying the Rugby Championship as a competition doesn't really mess 594 00:32:00,213 --> 00:32:02,133 Speaker 3: and I probably I still stand by that, but I 595 00:32:02,133 --> 00:32:04,453 Speaker 3: think it is healthy for this competition to be having 596 00:32:04,933 --> 00:32:07,013 Speaker 3: the kind of jeopardy, the kind of results that we've 597 00:32:07,213 --> 00:32:13,773 Speaker 3: got at the moment, and Argentina wouldn't been against them. 598 00:32:13,813 --> 00:32:16,893 Speaker 3: You're going over Savregan and shocking things up and sent 599 00:32:17,053 --> 00:32:21,453 Speaker 3: in another result over there. Tomming Onmer three, what changes 600 00:32:21,493 --> 00:32:23,333 Speaker 3: for the All Blacks for Wellington? Now we sort of 601 00:32:23,853 --> 00:32:27,253 Speaker 3: mentioned around that the ten do you see Scott Robinson 602 00:32:27,293 --> 00:32:28,533 Speaker 3: making that change at ten this week. 603 00:32:28,693 --> 00:32:32,493 Speaker 2: Well, one point we haven't mentioned is Jordi Barrett's did 604 00:32:32,693 --> 00:32:36,573 Speaker 2: a medial ligaments to his knee as we are speaking 605 00:32:36,613 --> 00:32:39,333 Speaker 2: now on Monday. He was going for a scan today 606 00:32:39,773 --> 00:32:44,053 Speaker 2: but he looked very sore and medial ligament these are 607 00:32:44,053 --> 00:32:47,213 Speaker 2: typically four to six weeks. So I would not expect 608 00:32:47,253 --> 00:32:50,733 Speaker 2: to see Jordi Barrett before the England Test at Twickenham, 609 00:32:51,293 --> 00:32:57,693 Speaker 2: which from memory is late October, and that's a big 610 00:32:57,733 --> 00:32:59,893 Speaker 2: blow for the All Blacks. Jordi Barrett is a very 611 00:33:01,013 --> 00:33:03,693 Speaker 2: unique player and what he brings to that twelve jersey, 612 00:33:03,773 --> 00:33:06,293 Speaker 2: so you'd expect Antelina Brown to come in for him. 613 00:33:07,373 --> 00:33:10,973 Speaker 2: Elsewhere we touched on, I think Boden Barrett possibly gets 614 00:33:10,973 --> 00:33:16,373 Speaker 2: a chance. Ethan Blackheader is due to return from his 615 00:33:17,493 --> 00:33:24,693 Speaker 2: hamstring injury, and yeah, I think elsewhere maybe you'll see 616 00:33:24,733 --> 00:33:29,093 Speaker 2: Mark Tala. I don't think we'll see Noah Hotham just yet. 617 00:33:29,093 --> 00:33:32,253 Speaker 2: I think they'll keep him back for Japan. TJ. Pennarre's 618 00:33:33,093 --> 00:33:36,573 Speaker 2: last test at home at Wellington. I think they'll want 619 00:33:36,573 --> 00:33:39,853 Speaker 2: to give him a run off the bench. I think 620 00:33:39,853 --> 00:33:43,173 Speaker 2: they'll want to keep Will Jordan at fullback. That was 621 00:33:43,293 --> 00:33:48,653 Speaker 2: unplanned but he took his chance there and in the pack, 622 00:33:48,933 --> 00:33:52,133 Speaker 2: I think Sam Kane probably starts for his one hundred tests. 623 00:33:53,213 --> 00:33:55,813 Speaker 2: Not sure about the front row Ethan the group was 624 00:33:55,813 --> 00:33:57,413 Speaker 2: short of a gallop. For me, I expect to build 625 00:33:57,413 --> 00:34:00,373 Speaker 2: black scrum to dominate the Wallabies. That didn't happen and 626 00:34:00,933 --> 00:34:04,613 Speaker 2: some weird rulings there, but that they didn't dominate them 627 00:34:05,013 --> 00:34:07,173 Speaker 2: in the capacity I expected. What about you? Where do 628 00:34:07,173 --> 00:34:08,253 Speaker 2: you see changes? Look? 629 00:34:08,573 --> 00:34:10,893 Speaker 3: I think they will maybe look at elsewhere at ten 630 00:34:11,573 --> 00:34:14,693 Speaker 3: this week. I think the opportunity is there. Having said that, 631 00:34:14,733 --> 00:34:18,173 Speaker 3: they'll probably do it again in Japan, so maybe two 632 00:34:18,213 --> 00:34:21,453 Speaker 3: tests in a row without your first choice ten and 633 00:34:21,693 --> 00:34:22,653 Speaker 3: David McKenzie. 634 00:34:23,413 --> 00:34:24,493 Speaker 2: Maybe they don't do that. 635 00:34:24,573 --> 00:34:26,373 Speaker 3: So I think there's going to be a little bit 636 00:34:26,373 --> 00:34:28,373 Speaker 3: of thinking about what they're doing Japan, albeit that's still 637 00:34:28,413 --> 00:34:31,493 Speaker 3: a month away. Just around how they playing things out. 638 00:34:31,533 --> 00:34:34,973 Speaker 3: I'd love to see Billy prop to get another crack 639 00:34:35,053 --> 00:34:38,533 Speaker 3: this week. Yeah, and I mean Caleb Clark has has 640 00:34:38,573 --> 00:34:40,133 Speaker 3: just come back in and taken his chance. But do 641 00:34:40,173 --> 00:34:42,893 Speaker 3: they look at Rico Yowani on the left wing again, 642 00:34:43,013 --> 00:34:48,413 Speaker 3: He's adamant, he's a center Rico, but maybe you can 643 00:34:48,573 --> 00:34:50,253 Speaker 3: sort of be Rico has been going back to the 644 00:34:50,293 --> 00:34:51,813 Speaker 3: wing and the end of the games. Maybe you can 645 00:34:51,893 --> 00:34:56,773 Speaker 3: change that out willst Tisi. I think keep them in there, 646 00:34:56,853 --> 00:35:00,453 Speaker 3: keep going, keep going, keep playing him and that may 647 00:35:01,333 --> 00:35:02,333 Speaker 3: facilitate a change. 648 00:35:02,573 --> 00:35:02,813 Speaker 2: Maybe. 649 00:35:02,813 --> 00:35:05,053 Speaker 3: Also maybe you move ball TDI back to number eight 650 00:35:05,053 --> 00:35:07,533 Speaker 3: this weekend and Ardie Savia comes off the bench. 651 00:35:07,573 --> 00:35:09,653 Speaker 2: It's going to happen at some point. I just I 652 00:35:09,693 --> 00:35:16,133 Speaker 2: think Scott Robinson's quite a not nostalgic but sentimental. I'd 653 00:35:16,133 --> 00:35:18,613 Speaker 2: be very surprised if Sam Kane doesn't start as hun 654 00:35:18,693 --> 00:35:20,773 Speaker 2: just here. Whether it happens this week or not, not 655 00:35:20,853 --> 00:35:23,453 Speaker 2: too sure, but I think he will start his hundred. 656 00:35:23,533 --> 00:35:24,933 Speaker 3: Well you could move west to t D back to 657 00:35:24,973 --> 00:35:27,453 Speaker 3: number eight. You could have Sam Kner open so flanker 658 00:35:27,493 --> 00:35:28,893 Speaker 3: and eating black head at blindside. 659 00:35:29,733 --> 00:35:32,453 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the all black small start Areadie pretty 660 00:35:32,493 --> 00:35:35,053 Speaker 2: hard to go away from that. But look, I want 661 00:35:35,093 --> 00:35:37,333 Speaker 2: to see what at eight. It has to happen at 662 00:35:37,373 --> 00:35:40,253 Speaker 2: some point soon. Well, I want to see it last 663 00:35:40,253 --> 00:35:44,253 Speaker 2: week when we said the week before, I'm not Razor 664 00:35:46,133 --> 00:35:46,813 Speaker 2: Harry Flummer. 665 00:35:47,533 --> 00:35:48,933 Speaker 3: Yeah, they have another look at him this week your 666 00:35:48,973 --> 00:35:52,173 Speaker 3: four minutes unexpectedly off the bench and congratulations to him 667 00:35:52,173 --> 00:35:54,333 Speaker 3: on becoming all black number one thy two hundred and 668 00:35:54,333 --> 00:35:57,813 Speaker 3: twenty one. It was unexpected with blowing Barrett's illness, but 669 00:35:57,933 --> 00:36:00,493 Speaker 3: do they give him another crack off the bench this week? 670 00:36:00,733 --> 00:36:02,613 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, a great story for a guy 671 00:36:02,893 --> 00:36:05,573 Speaker 2: that has really toiled away behind the scenes and was 672 00:36:05,773 --> 00:36:10,053 Speaker 2: very unheralded even right up until the point end of 673 00:36:10,053 --> 00:36:11,973 Speaker 2: this year. If he lose guided them to a Super 674 00:36:12,053 --> 00:36:17,173 Speaker 2: Rugby title after you know all the trials and tribulations. 675 00:36:16,533 --> 00:36:19,733 Speaker 2: He's had a number of injury setbacks. He early in 676 00:36:19,733 --> 00:36:21,973 Speaker 2: his career missed a couple of kicks that he was 677 00:36:22,693 --> 00:36:25,213 Speaker 2: vilified for on social media, so he's had to deal 678 00:36:25,253 --> 00:36:27,013 Speaker 2: with a lot of shit. And I know this was 679 00:36:27,253 --> 00:36:30,093 Speaker 2: very popular debut within the All Blacks, not just with 680 00:36:30,173 --> 00:36:33,733 Speaker 2: the Blues players. With Jordi Barrett out, I think he 681 00:36:33,773 --> 00:36:36,093 Speaker 2: probably does stand the mixt day. David de Hevelli is 682 00:36:36,093 --> 00:36:39,093 Speaker 2: another guy that hasn't seen any game time, so probably 683 00:36:39,093 --> 00:36:42,053 Speaker 2: going head to head there, but the fact they put 684 00:36:42,093 --> 00:36:46,453 Speaker 2: Plumber in last week suggests that he's Yeah. It does 685 00:36:46,853 --> 00:36:48,013 Speaker 2: so it's going to be a very interesting team. 686 00:36:48,053 --> 00:36:51,853 Speaker 3: And it'snamed Thursday Morning around what changes the All Blacks 687 00:36:52,093 --> 00:36:54,653 Speaker 3: make final topic in the final four. As we touched 688 00:36:54,653 --> 00:36:58,293 Speaker 3: on their sm Kaines one hundredth for coming up this week. 689 00:36:58,373 --> 00:37:00,973 Speaker 3: I spoke to him last week ahead of his ninety 690 00:37:01,053 --> 00:37:02,173 Speaker 3: nine if you can hear that into you on the 691 00:37:02,173 --> 00:37:07,213 Speaker 3: news talks HEDI website if you so desire. But s look, 692 00:37:07,213 --> 00:37:08,853 Speaker 3: he hasn't got much more time left in the All 693 00:37:08,893 --> 00:37:12,933 Speaker 3: Blacks Juessey. It was Scott Robertson who said on Thursday 694 00:37:12,973 --> 00:37:14,933 Speaker 3: and he named the team that they are where it's 695 00:37:14,933 --> 00:37:18,173 Speaker 3: Scott Sam Caine swansong and how long does the song last? 696 00:37:18,213 --> 00:37:18,293 Speaker 1: For? 697 00:37:19,173 --> 00:37:22,013 Speaker 3: When did they stop singing? But he's been in a 698 00:37:22,093 --> 00:37:23,773 Speaker 3: very very good form this season. I only missed that 699 00:37:24,133 --> 00:37:27,253 Speaker 3: tackle on the weekend, you know, but everyone misses tackles. 700 00:37:28,693 --> 00:37:32,973 Speaker 3: But he's made it a conversation this year and it 701 00:37:33,053 --> 00:37:36,653 Speaker 3: didn't appear like it would be earlier on this season. 702 00:37:36,653 --> 00:37:39,693 Speaker 3: It felt like bench rugby and maybe some starts against 703 00:37:39,693 --> 00:37:42,813 Speaker 3: the Lesa Lights might be his lot. But he's closing 704 00:37:42,813 --> 00:37:46,653 Speaker 3: out his tenure as a Test rugby footballer in some 705 00:37:46,693 --> 00:37:50,733 Speaker 3: pretty good form. And I think you look back at 706 00:37:50,733 --> 00:37:53,493 Speaker 3: his career, he was in the shadow of Richie McCaw 707 00:37:53,933 --> 00:37:56,733 Speaker 3: for so long that Burt in twenty twelve was pretty 708 00:37:56,813 --> 00:38:00,893 Speaker 3: much a bench specialist for three or four seasons behind. 709 00:38:01,093 --> 00:38:04,373 Speaker 3: McCaw got a captaincy not at the World Cup in 710 00:38:04,373 --> 00:38:07,613 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen against Namibia, if I recall rightly, and then 711 00:38:07,653 --> 00:38:11,893 Speaker 3: has grown and grown since then, but he's always lived 712 00:38:11,893 --> 00:38:14,053 Speaker 3: in the shadow of Richie Mccooh. It's a really tough 713 00:38:14,093 --> 00:38:18,373 Speaker 3: position to be in for not only applied coming into issues, 714 00:38:18,413 --> 00:38:20,853 Speaker 3: but then you're also elevated to the All Blacks captaincy 715 00:38:21,493 --> 00:38:22,453 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. 716 00:38:24,173 --> 00:38:26,253 Speaker 2: He's not retiring just yet. But how will you look 717 00:38:26,293 --> 00:38:29,133 Speaker 2: back at Sam Kaine's career. M Yeah, just before I 718 00:38:29,213 --> 00:38:32,013 Speaker 2: get to that, I think what Sam Kane has done 719 00:38:32,173 --> 00:38:36,373 Speaker 2: is he's really surprised Razor because I think Raiser's perception 720 00:38:36,493 --> 00:38:40,453 Speaker 2: from the outside was that maybe he shouldn't have been 721 00:38:40,493 --> 00:38:43,693 Speaker 2: captain of the All Blacks. And I know for a 722 00:38:43,733 --> 00:38:46,053 Speaker 2: fact that Rais has been blown away by his presence 723 00:38:46,053 --> 00:38:50,773 Speaker 2: in the All Blacks, particularly around his leadership off the field, 724 00:38:51,573 --> 00:38:56,093 Speaker 2: helping Scott Barrett's, his respect within the playing group, the 725 00:38:56,173 --> 00:39:00,493 Speaker 2: MANI he carries, and so I think that's been a 726 00:39:00,533 --> 00:39:06,453 Speaker 2: big shift for Razor to see that in person. His career, 727 00:39:06,933 --> 00:39:10,773 Speaker 2: he has survived a lot of adversity. He broke his 728 00:39:10,893 --> 00:39:18,133 Speaker 2: neck in South Africa and it wasn't just his career uncertainty, 729 00:39:18,173 --> 00:39:20,893 Speaker 2: but you know there was real fears for whether he 730 00:39:20,933 --> 00:39:23,933 Speaker 2: would walk again. And at the time Russia Rasmus talked 731 00:39:23,933 --> 00:39:26,693 Speaker 2: about how he went and visited him at the hospital room. 732 00:39:27,053 --> 00:39:31,733 Speaker 2: So he came back from that. He's extremely dogged. He 733 00:39:31,813 --> 00:39:36,733 Speaker 2: has been one of the biggest hatting defenders in New 734 00:39:36,813 --> 00:39:40,133 Speaker 2: Zealand rugby. He lived and breathed the adversity of the 735 00:39:40,253 --> 00:39:44,853 Speaker 2: m Foster era, fronted through some of the worst times 736 00:39:45,133 --> 00:39:49,213 Speaker 2: in the professional era, some horror records and stood firm 737 00:39:49,253 --> 00:39:50,733 Speaker 2: and then that you know, the red card and the 738 00:39:50,773 --> 00:39:52,893 Speaker 2: World Cup final, and then comes back again this year. 739 00:39:53,013 --> 00:39:58,173 Speaker 2: So look, the character of the bloke, you cannot questions. 740 00:39:58,613 --> 00:40:00,733 Speaker 2: If there's anyone deserving to get to one hundred caps, 741 00:40:00,773 --> 00:40:07,213 Speaker 2: it is him. I as it stands right now, I 742 00:40:07,253 --> 00:40:11,093 Speaker 2: would have moved on from him last week. I think 743 00:40:11,693 --> 00:40:15,373 Speaker 2: you can justify the style of rugby that he plays, 744 00:40:15,413 --> 00:40:18,813 Speaker 2: coming in and starting against the spring Box. But I 745 00:40:18,813 --> 00:40:21,653 Speaker 2: think there's real questions now and particularly the style of 746 00:40:21,653 --> 00:40:26,093 Speaker 2: the Wallabies play, about moving on and getting to the future. Yes, 747 00:40:26,653 --> 00:40:29,013 Speaker 2: Sam Kame will get to one hundred caps, but what 748 00:40:29,173 --> 00:40:31,893 Speaker 2: is the future of the seven Jersy here. You know, 749 00:40:31,933 --> 00:40:36,813 Speaker 2: where's Dalton Papa Lei gone? Why isn't Peter Luckeye in 750 00:40:36,893 --> 00:40:39,613 Speaker 2: the squads? You know? Maybe that will come, But the 751 00:40:40,133 --> 00:40:42,493 Speaker 2: wider issue for me about what is the future of 752 00:40:42,533 --> 00:40:46,533 Speaker 2: the Seven Jews is almost more pressing than Sam can 753 00:40:46,573 --> 00:40:49,413 Speaker 2: getting too A hundred one hundred percent deserves that. But 754 00:40:49,893 --> 00:40:53,093 Speaker 2: from an interest perspective, I'm really fascinated about where the 755 00:40:53,173 --> 00:40:55,933 Speaker 2: Seven Jewsy goes because you talk about their legacy with mccare, 756 00:40:56,333 --> 00:40:59,173 Speaker 2: that's always going to be there. But who is the 757 00:40:59,213 --> 00:40:59,693 Speaker 2: next guy? 758 00:40:59,893 --> 00:41:02,933 Speaker 3: Well, as far as I understand, Sam Kame is still 759 00:41:02,933 --> 00:41:06,293 Speaker 3: there until the end of the year. Yeah, so that's 760 00:41:06,293 --> 00:41:09,053 Speaker 3: the problem for twenty thirty five, finding out who the 761 00:41:09,093 --> 00:41:09,893 Speaker 3: next open sider is? 762 00:41:10,853 --> 00:41:14,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. But what's happening from a grooming perspective, 763 00:41:15,573 --> 00:41:17,773 Speaker 2: you and I right now, I can't say who is 764 00:41:17,813 --> 00:41:20,573 Speaker 2: the ext guy? But does that matter? Because look at look, look, 765 00:41:20,573 --> 00:41:22,133 Speaker 2: look you need to be planning for the future. 766 00:41:22,653 --> 00:41:25,573 Speaker 3: But last year in the All Blacks courtez Ratima not there, 767 00:41:25,853 --> 00:41:27,493 Speaker 3: while it's a teating not there. They're until the All 768 00:41:27,493 --> 00:41:30,573 Speaker 3: Blacks best this year? So why not live in the 769 00:41:30,613 --> 00:41:33,133 Speaker 3: moment and go Sam Kaine is the best open side 770 00:41:33,133 --> 00:41:34,853 Speaker 3: flanker for the All Blacks. At this point in time, 771 00:41:35,933 --> 00:41:38,493 Speaker 3: we're going to seleck them in the seven jowsey. We'll 772 00:41:38,533 --> 00:41:40,293 Speaker 3: worry about that in twenty and twenty five. It's shown 773 00:41:40,333 --> 00:41:42,493 Speaker 3: that doesn't take long for certain players to get up 774 00:41:42,493 --> 00:41:44,773 Speaker 3: to speed and teas Rugi have Don and Papale's not 775 00:41:44,773 --> 00:41:47,853 Speaker 3: the best open side flanker at the moment behind Sam Kine, 776 00:41:48,453 --> 00:41:49,573 Speaker 3: then why give them the jersey? 777 00:41:49,973 --> 00:41:52,133 Speaker 2: Now? Was a nod to the future. You can live 778 00:41:52,133 --> 00:41:54,453 Speaker 2: in the moment and plan for the future. I would 779 00:41:54,573 --> 00:41:57,253 Speaker 2: argue right now, Razor does not know who his next 780 00:41:57,293 --> 00:42:00,733 Speaker 2: open siders, and that's why Peter Luckey has to go 781 00:42:00,773 --> 00:42:04,133 Speaker 2: on the India Tour because if Sam Kain is a 782 00:42:04,133 --> 00:42:07,413 Speaker 2: guy right now, fine playing, but start grooming the next 783 00:42:07,453 --> 00:42:09,093 Speaker 2: guy and that's not happening. 784 00:42:09,173 --> 00:42:13,133 Speaker 3: But yeah, I take your point, But then grooming is 785 00:42:13,173 --> 00:42:15,413 Speaker 3: only good to an a certain extent because you've got 786 00:42:15,453 --> 00:42:17,613 Speaker 3: to play what's in front of you at a certain time, 787 00:42:17,653 --> 00:42:20,053 Speaker 3: and you can you know, Filly Christie was the All 788 00:42:20,093 --> 00:42:22,133 Speaker 3: Black second choice half beat last year. Now he's probably 789 00:42:22,133 --> 00:42:25,893 Speaker 3: down to fourth fifth in the in the rankings. Different 790 00:42:25,893 --> 00:42:28,773 Speaker 3: coaches at midley. But I think you've got to play 791 00:42:28,773 --> 00:42:30,373 Speaker 3: for the test match that's in front of you, not 792 00:42:30,413 --> 00:42:32,093 Speaker 3: the one that's been played in twelve months time. 793 00:42:33,053 --> 00:42:35,533 Speaker 2: That's fair. But I'll give you an example. How much 794 00:42:35,773 --> 00:42:39,933 Speaker 2: is Courses Latima benefiting from TJ pet Andarra's presence and 795 00:42:40,013 --> 00:42:43,453 Speaker 2: the All Blacks. So handing over that experience and that 796 00:42:43,453 --> 00:42:47,053 Speaker 2: that grooming process, particularly for a twenty one year old 797 00:42:47,133 --> 00:42:52,293 Speaker 2: kid like Lakey, is so important. So yep, have to 798 00:42:52,333 --> 00:42:55,093 Speaker 2: win in the now, but groom for the future. 799 00:42:55,493 --> 00:42:58,093 Speaker 3: There we go on that notes, we will wrap up 800 00:42:58,453 --> 00:43:01,053 Speaker 3: Rugby Directs. Good to be in the Capitol. We'll be 801 00:43:01,093 --> 00:43:04,373 Speaker 3: back again next week to wrap up the first or 802 00:43:04,413 --> 00:43:07,853 Speaker 3: the first Rugby Championship under Scott Robinson and look aheads 803 00:43:08,013 --> 00:43:10,333 Speaker 3: to the end of year tour as well. All the 804 00:43:10,373 --> 00:43:13,253 Speaker 3: coverage on India here dot co dot India this week 805 00:43:13,493 --> 00:43:16,413 Speaker 3: and on News TALKSB, Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. That has 806 00:43:16,413 --> 00:43:19,373 Speaker 3: been Rugby direct with access solutions, elevating you and your 807 00:43:19,373 --> 00:43:21,853 Speaker 3: business to a higher level. We think last and bars 808 00:43:21,893 --> 00:43:28,693 Speaker 3: English is always for producing Rugby Directs. 809 00:43:28,693 --> 00:43:31,653 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk, SEDB, listen live on air 810 00:43:31,813 --> 00:43:34,533 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you 811 00:43:34,613 --> 00:43:37,013 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio