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Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Unique Homes

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Speaker 1: Uniquely for you on the.

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Speaker 2: Huddles me this evening we have Jordan Williams Taxpayers Union

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Speaker 2: and Phil goth former Auklam mayor, form High Commissioner to

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Speaker 2: the UK, former Labor Party captain minister. Hello you too,

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Speaker 2: Hello Jordan. Should Wellington build a fence around its waterfront?

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Speaker 3: Well, it should at least consult with the public on it.

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Speaker 3: It's good to say that for once common sense broke

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Speaker 3: out at Wellington Council. Look at your real issue. I

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Speaker 3: was worried about drunken politicians jumping into the water in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the night and something bad happening. Surely

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Speaker 3: be chief, you just put a fence around the council

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Speaker 3: and round the waterfront.

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Speaker 2: In all serious notes, seriousness, Phil, there have been a

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Speaker 2: number of young people especially who have got on the

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Speaker 2: raz and and ended up in the drink and not

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Speaker 2: survived right. So and so it is a risk. The

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Speaker 2: question is if you can be blunt about it. The

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Speaker 2: question is do you fence off the entire thing and

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Speaker 2: ruin it for everybody? Because about seven people have died

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Speaker 2: in the space of time what it is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's I went back and just checked

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Speaker 4: the records on that one. There's been nine deaths and

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Speaker 4: three that were almost deaths. So you're talking about a

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Speaker 4: significant number of people, some no doubt reflecting the fact

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Speaker 4: that there are a lot of bars around that part

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Speaker 4: of the world. But you know, people do stupid things.

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Speaker 4: That doesn't mean to say you want them to die

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Speaker 4: as a result of it. Some were quite elderly and

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Speaker 4: simply had an accident, fell off. I think they're not

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Speaker 4: fencing the whole of the thing and what the paper

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Speaker 4: went up to the council to do. But the Kuma

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Speaker 4: toto and the Queen's warfarea I know it easter to

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Speaker 4: wander down there, you know, during the dinner break sometimes

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Speaker 4: you get a bit of fresh air from the stale

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Speaker 4: atmosphere of Parliament. Look, I think almost inevitably they'll have

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Speaker 4: to put the fence in. Should they consult? Yeah? Yeah, no,

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Speaker 4: I looked. You imagine you imagine what the consequences were

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Speaker 4: if somebody fell off that and died tomorrow, and you

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Speaker 4: had ignored a coroner's clear direction that there was an

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Speaker 4: urgent need to remedy a safety problem that had caused

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Speaker 4: nine deaths in since two thousand and six, and nearly

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Speaker 4: caused others. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on

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Speaker 4: if you ignored that recommendation and that death toll.

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Speaker 2: Do you think, Jordan, that it's an inevitability?

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Speaker 3: No, No, I don't. I'm interested of that number. How

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Speaker 3: many of those deaths related to people climbing the crane?

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Speaker 3: Old crane thing that a beautiful old historic.

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Speaker 1: Did you struck out when you when you counted it?

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Speaker 4: Stop?

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Speaker 3: I couldn't stop people climbing over to climb.

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Speaker 4: Of course it won't. Yeah, of course it wouldn't stop that.

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Speaker 4: And I don't and I don't think. I don't think

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Speaker 4: that the guy that jumped off the crane, which was

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Speaker 4: an act of total stupidity, is included in that death

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Speaker 4: that death total. I'd have to go back and check

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Speaker 4: that there were a couple of people that simply off

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Speaker 4: the edge. It's fairly narrow, as you know down there,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of traffic on it, bike, skateboarders, the

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Speaker 4: whole lot, and there's a clear risk. So you know,

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Speaker 4: it's funny that you have to fence your swimming pool.

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Speaker 4: I don't have kids anymore, but I have to have

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Speaker 4: a fence around the swimming pool, and I don't gristle

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Speaker 4: about that. You know, that's the way it is. And

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of kids that did dine, and

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Speaker 4: you get visitors from time to time. But you've got

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Speaker 4: a clear area where there are a lot of fatalities

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Speaker 4: and it's not just a one off. Yeah, it's common

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Speaker 4: sense that you need to do something about it.

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Speaker 3: Man, it's a huge rightly champion public access onto the

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Speaker 3: Auckland waterfront. Not the textum, but my business is actually

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Speaker 3: based down on Queens Sorry Princess Wharf and that is

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Speaker 3: a working port. We regularly reminded you couldn't possibly put

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Speaker 3: a fence around there because you know, it would mean

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Speaker 3: that the port couldn't use it. How do you have

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Speaker 3: it both or balance that between public access versus an

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Speaker 3: inner city port with the benefit that brings.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well you're not going to stop public access. You're

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Speaker 4: going to have public access there. Secondly, they're not necessarily

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Speaker 4: going to fence the whole area. They're going to fence

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Speaker 4: the area where there is a clear risk shine by

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Speaker 4: the fact there's been quite a number of fatalities as

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Speaker 4: well as a number of near misses people that nearly died. So,

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Speaker 4: as you said, it is a matter of balance and

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Speaker 4: you have to balance those factors out. But if I

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Speaker 4: was making that decision, Look, I don't know what the

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Speaker 4: legal liability of the council would be if they fail

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Speaker 4: to act on a coroner's recommendation and then another couple

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Speaker 4: of people die, you know, and there are people down

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Speaker 4: there with kids and the kids you know what kids

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Speaker 4: are like, young kids. You don't have them on a leash.

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Speaker 4: They run around. They could fall into the water. I

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Speaker 4: think you'd be at risk of something.

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Speaker 2: Fall in the water. You fish them out again. They

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Speaker 2: need to fall under the water to learn that you

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Speaker 2: can fall in the water.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, But the people that fell in the water

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Speaker 4: went fished out and they died. Three were fished out,

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Speaker 4: nearly died.

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Speaker 2: I was trucked by the kids. Hey, listen very quickly.

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Speaker 2: I just want to get your take on each of this,

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Speaker 2: right on this, each of your take, sorry, Jordan. How

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Speaker 2: bad is it? Is there anything that we can do

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Speaker 2: to stop businesses shutting down and mothballing because of the

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Speaker 2: gas prices? How bad is it if there is nothing

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Speaker 2: we can do, which is the situation we're.

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Speaker 3: In oh, I mean it's I mean we were witnessing

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Speaker 3: the de industrialization. I think that it was. I think

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Speaker 3: the most shocking staff I've seen the last six months

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Speaker 3: was the final quarter of last year. It came out

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Speaker 3: in about April electricity usage was down by eighteen percent.

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Speaker 3: That wasn't even in only twelve months, and that was

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Speaker 3: not during the peak squeat sorry, the winter squeeze. There is.

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Speaker 3: You know, the fact is a country that should have

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Speaker 3: cheap electricity and cheap power and cheap energy between. But

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Speaker 3: you know, all sources of industrial heat is now incredibly

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Speaker 3: expensive and there's quite a long lead in time with

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Speaker 3: the stuff, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you feel it's domestic customers. It's quite a

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Speaker 3: long lag effect. It takes a few years to flow through.

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Speaker 3: But you only need especially you've got kids and getting

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Speaker 3: stupidly high electricity bills to see it. Well, that's industrial

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Speaker 3: New Zella now for a few years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Phil, I want your take on it when

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Speaker 2: we come back from the break.

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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the ones

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Speaker 1: for unmashed results.

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Speaker 2: Right, you're back with a huddle Phil Golf and Jordan Williams. Phil,

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Speaker 2: what do you make of the situation with gas? Can

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Speaker 2: we do anything to stop this?

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Speaker 4: Well, if you want a cheap generation, it's not going

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Speaker 4: to be by gas. Gas costs you about one hundred

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Speaker 4: and seventy dollars per megawaite hour to generate wind is

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Speaker 4: about sixty to eighty and falling sold is around sixty

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Speaker 4: to one hundred and ten and falling and hydro and

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Speaker 4: you probably you're not going to do much more with hydro,

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Speaker 4: but geothermal is also another source. What's the problem with gas? Well,

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Speaker 4: you've got a declining domestic supply, The big fields of

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Speaker 4: Maui and Pohukura are running out, and you've got international pressures,

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Speaker 4: you know, the sanctions on Russia and all those.

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Speaker 2: So are you mean just fatalistic about what's happening with

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Speaker 2: these businesses? And no, there's nothing we can do.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, I'm not being fatalistic about it. I'm

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Speaker 4: saying you've got to look at alternative supplies of energy

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Speaker 4: generation other than gas, because gas is not the cheapest

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Speaker 4: and will never be the cheapest, and has the other

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Speaker 4: problems associated with climate self imposed.

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Speaker 3: Come on, we're the only country in the world that's

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Speaker 3: reducing gas usage in favor of building up coal stocks

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Speaker 3: because we stopped the willing gas expiration.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, look at if you could do.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm sure, And they don't have any

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Speaker 4: vested interest in it. But I do know this that

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Speaker 4: we've signed up under both both governments toi's carbon mission payments,

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Speaker 4: and they're going to become more and more expensive. We've signed,

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Speaker 4: We've tried, not method we've signed. We've signed treaties, trading

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Speaker 4: treaties where we've guaranteed that we'll meet what we've set

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Speaker 4: out and are obligated to meet. That will put our

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Speaker 4: trading religion them those things, that's those things are serious issues.

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Speaker 4: You can't ignore them. I went to a lot of

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Speaker 4: London last year with a climate change minister, hard headed

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Speaker 4: businessmen in the city of London, and they said, you've

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Speaker 4: got to do more to deal with the problems of

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Speaker 4: climate change because so many of your places will become

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Speaker 4: uninsurable unless you have adaptation and unless we do the

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Speaker 4: mitigation that we need to do. Now. They're not green,

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Speaker 4: they are hard headed insurers and everybody that whatever.

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Speaker 2: Side of the political spectrum you want it's not going

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Speaker 2: to happen. We're not going to meet those targets. All

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Speaker 2: we can do is adapt. That's the truth.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, we've taken action to make it sure that

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Speaker 4: we won't meet those tickets. There are other things that

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Speaker 4: we could have done. You know, we all we all

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Speaker 4: carry on about China creating so much. China now has

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Speaker 4: the best battery, the best electric car supply, and dealing

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Speaker 4: with their remissions problem. We haven't shown the same we

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Speaker 4: haven't shown the same determination. And Donald Trump's course doing

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Speaker 4: exactly the opposite.

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Speaker 2: China's got a leading when it comes to what we

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Speaker 2: do with the climate. How very quickly, guys, Okay, Jordan,

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Speaker 2: how damning do you think it is that Treasury warned

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Speaker 2: Grant Robertson multiple times to reign in the COVID spending

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Speaker 2: and he didn't.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean what in fairness, neither has Nichola Willis.

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Speaker 3: You know, I mean, there's a percentage of the economy

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Speaker 3: of government's now bigger. We're borrowing at a faster rate

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Speaker 3: than when Grant Robinson left office. And you saw these

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Speaker 3: unbelievable public servet numbers out last week showing that the

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Speaker 3: bureaucracy is currently larger than it was when Labor left

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Speaker 3: left office. Yes, obviously, you know I would say that,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was outrageous that, you know, the rest

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Speaker 3: of the world turned off turned down the tap again,

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Speaker 3: and New Zealand didn't. But we're still turning it on harder.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And Phil, how damning is it that Nikola Willis is

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Speaker 2: still spending as much as Grant Robertson did at the

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Speaker 2: height of the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: Well, you can't, it's not quite not long on that,

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Speaker 4: that's a fact. But you know, just think back to

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Speaker 4: what happened during COVID. Every small business, every industrial group

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Speaker 4: was lobbying the government to do more to help them

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Speaker 4: because they talked about having to mass lay off and

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Speaker 4: an almighty recession caused by COVID and the measures taken

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Speaker 4: to combat OVID. So it's wise. It may be wise

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Speaker 4: after the event. At the time, we were pretty damn

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Speaker 4: pleased that there were subsidies to keep people employed and

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Speaker 4: people with incomes and industry are going rather than going bankrupt.

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Speaker 4: So you want to think of it in.

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Speaker 3: That context, Jordan, did you want to correct me, Well,

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Speaker 3: we're not spending at the very height of COVID. That

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Speaker 3: would be guilding the lily. But the point is that

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Speaker 3: the rest of the world pulled back a lot harder.

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Speaker 3: We're knowing near where we were pre pre COVID. And

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Speaker 3: the fact is that, you know, the market is sending

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Speaker 3: a signal right now. A ten year bond yield is

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Speaker 3: higher than the UK. The colaxons are flashing, the government

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Speaker 3: gets grief, a so called cut suspending it's actually only

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Speaker 3: slowed down the growth. You know, the government was elected

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Speaker 3: to pull back and it actually isn't.

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Speaker 2: Guys. It is lovely to chat to the pair of you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Phil GoF Jordan Williams a huddle.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: News Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.