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Speaker 1: So I've got a question mark around the new proposed

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Speaker 1: medical school in Wykatto. It's a national party policy, of course,

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Speaker 1: but ACT to wonder about the maths and whether it

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Speaker 1: all adds up. The ACT leader David Seymour's with us

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Speaker 1: very good morning to you, Good morning makee. This is

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Speaker 1: not an argument around whether we need more doctors or not.

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Speaker 1: This is an argument around the cost of training them.

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Speaker 1: Is that fair or not?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's absolutely an argument around how you get more doctors.

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Speaker 2: But you've got to go through all of the questions

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Speaker 2: before you decide how to do that. So, for example,

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Speaker 2: would it make sense to increase the subsidies for GPS

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Speaker 2: as ACTS campaigned on to stop them leaving? Would it

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Speaker 2: help to change the funding formula which frustrates a lot

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Speaker 2: of doctors and itcdotally While many work every hour God

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Speaker 2: gives them, there's others who actually look at the formula

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Speaker 2: and so it makes sense to work fewer days per

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Speaker 2: week for lifestyle reasons. Would it make sense to expand

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Speaker 2: the two very good medical schools we've got before we

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Speaker 2: eat the fixed costs on creating a new one? And

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Speaker 2: this I think is a very good example of the

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Speaker 2: Coalition agreement working well Act to National have quite a

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Speaker 2: different view on this, but we've put together a process

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Speaker 2: for working through our differences and that is full cost

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Speaker 2: benefit analysis on what really is the best way to

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Speaker 2: get more doctors? Is it to plug the hole in

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Speaker 2: the bucket or is it to keep putting more water

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Speaker 2: in a very expensive water In this case.

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Speaker 1: Ken Auckland and the Tiger actually expand.

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Speaker 2: They absolutely believe that they can. Logically, you know, they're

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Speaker 2: not necessarily large med schools by world standards, and what

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Speaker 2: limit is there anyway?

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Speaker 1: So can you materially put on a piece of paper

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Speaker 1: it costs X to training student at Auckland or the

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Speaker 1: Tigo versus why at a Tiger Wykato. Therefore it doesn't

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Speaker 1: make any sense or not.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the job of the cost benefit analysis and

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Speaker 2: the government's commissioned people to do it. They had to

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Speaker 2: go at it. We pointed out that they hadn't actually

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Speaker 2: counted the cost of training specialists, only the costs of

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Speaker 2: training gps, which we thought was not quite right, and

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Speaker 2: they've made it lot of assumptions about whether or not

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Speaker 2: GP trained at Wykatta would be more likely to stay

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Speaker 2: in a rural area if we pointed out that Hamilton

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Speaker 2: is not actually a rural area anymore, and Auckland and

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Speaker 2: Otago have extensive training schemes where GPS train in the

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Speaker 2: community any way, including ironically in Hamilton. So you know,

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Speaker 2: you can go back and forth with all these arguments.

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Speaker 2: But if we're going to spend taxpayer money, and I

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Speaker 2: think one of 's jobs is to be well where

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Speaker 2: the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers technically our job is

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Speaker 2: to be a second pair of eyes on government spending,

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Speaker 2: especially in these times, then we've got to be sure

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Speaker 2: this is actually the best most efficient way to get

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Speaker 2: both fair Enough, if.

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Speaker 1: The numbers don't stack up, they don't stack up. Having

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Speaker 1: said that this is a five them, have you been

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Speaker 1: recruited by a tiger in Auckland because they don't like

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Speaker 1: the five and broken?

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Speaker 2: No. I got recruited by Auckland about twenty four years ago.

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Speaker 2: But you know I've been lobbied by all three universities.

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Speaker 2: Loyalty is not to any of the three. It's to

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Speaker 2: the taxpayer. If anything, I look at the way the

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Speaker 2: University of Auckland's behaving to valuing my degree with a

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Speaker 2: forty second in the world, where I was there now

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Speaker 2: were one hundred and fifty. Because of the unending crap

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Speaker 2: that they insist on teaching students instead of actual science

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Speaker 2: in academia, I'd probably be that past prejudiced. It would

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Speaker 2: be against aora ma No.

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Speaker 1: You got me going now that course next year that

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Speaker 1: they're going to make you take in Maori. Why are

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Speaker 1: you part of a government that allows that bullocks to

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Speaker 1: come to pass?

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Speaker 2: Mainly because the government has pretty limited ability to influence universities,

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Speaker 2: the self governing entities. We are putting in place laws

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Speaker 2: that say they have to have a free speech policy.

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Speaker 2: I know Penny Simmonds, Minister for Tertiary is as quickly

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Speaker 2: as possible. She did nothing planting better people to the boards. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: you know she's only she's just about had a year.

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Speaker 2: But I just make the point to a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: You know, people say, why haven't you changed everything? If

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Speaker 2: this was Pyongyang, I would have. But as a New Zealander,

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Speaker 2: I actually want to live at a society with independent

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Speaker 2: institutions that can act on their own terms, with some

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Speaker 2: trust in society. Even if I don't agree with everything

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Speaker 2: that every institution's doing right now, So can we change it? Yep?

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Speaker 2: Can we change it right away? No? Would I want

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Speaker 2: to live in a society where a politician like me

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Speaker 2: could change every institution straight away. Definitely not good to

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Speaker 2: see it.

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Speaker 1: David Seymour, Act Party Leader. By the way, if you

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Speaker 1: haven't followed, if you're on social media, it was alluded

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Speaker 1: to it yesterday, because I'm not on social media. Actor

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Speaker 1: now sticking up what they call the bridgewalk, And the

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Speaker 1: bridgewalk is when the politician leaves the offices and goes

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Speaker 1: to the Parliament and the media gather around them and

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Speaker 1: start firing off one hundred different questions. So Actor now

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Speaker 1: filming that as an exercise. And if you ever want

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Speaker 1: to see just how unhinged some of the media in

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Speaker 1: this country are, it's the stuff we'll never put on

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Speaker 1: the television at night, and you'll never actually hear until

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Speaker 1: you see that. Go watch some of them and shake

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Speaker 1: your head in dismay. For more from the Micast Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to News Talk Set B from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.