1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. When strippers 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: arrive at work, they don't know how much money they're 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: taking home at the end of the shift. 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Their employer might. 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 3: Decide to take a higher percentage. 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: Of their wages that week, or they could have been 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 2: fined for something inconsequential. With no way of rebutting, they 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: can't unionize, negotiate better contract terms, or complain to the 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: likes of Work Safe or the Commerce Commission. Fired Up 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: Stilettos is an organization and social movement working to improve 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 2: the lives of strippers and sex workers in Altieroa. Today 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: on the Front Page, one of the group's organizers, Margo Embargo, 15 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: joins us to discuss the deception. 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Discrimination and stigma these. 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: Workers face daily. 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 3: So, Margo, can you tell me about Fired Up Stilettos. 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: How did the group form? 20 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 4: Well, I do remember how we started. It was the 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 4: end of twenty twenty to Calendar Girls. The company had 22 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 4: decided that they were putting up the prices of the 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 4: services that strippers sell as part of their job. That 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 4: decision was made without the input of the dancers. When 25 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 4: they released the new prices, it was clear to the 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 4: workers that they'd also increased the percentage of how much 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 4: of our profits that they would take per booking. So 28 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 4: it had gone from you work, you do a lap dance, 29 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 4: you keep sixty percent of what the customer pays and 30 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 4: the club takes forty. That's what it was initially, and 31 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 4: then they'd redone the pricing and it was fifty to 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 4: fifty was the highest amount that a dancer could make 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 4: from a booking, and then some of the other ones 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 4: were more like forty percent of what the customer were paying, 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 4: and that's really not how contracting should work or how 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 4: stripping should work. So there was a letter written by 37 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 4: a couple of the dancers at Calendar Girls Wellington and 38 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 4: it was signed by thirty seven of us who also 39 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 4: in support of renegotiating that decision. And there were some 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 4: other issues around not receiving accurate records of payment that 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 4: was also addressed in that letter. We gave that to 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 4: the manager at the end of twenty twenty two. Nothing happened. 43 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 4: I think she responded and said, you know, it was 44 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 4: a very long message basically being like, don't ask for 45 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 4: this and then we never had any change or movement 46 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 4: on that. So it got sent to the owner of 47 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 4: Calendar Girls on the thirtieth of January last year, and 48 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 4: then I think no less than twelve hours later, half 49 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 4: of the people that signed the letter were fired in 50 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 4: a Facebook post in the Wellington Calendar Girls group page. 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 4: And that was that really, and then the nineteen of 52 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 4: us that were fired got together after that and we 53 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 4: were outraged and a lot of people really upset as well, 54 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 4: obviously like suddenly losing new job. Then we started a 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 4: movement and we're still doing it. Really, that's the story. 56 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: So that forty to fifty sometimes sixty percent of your 57 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 2: wages is that just for the privilege of being able 58 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: to work there. 59 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. 60 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 4: Basically, the general idea of how our industry works is 61 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 4: that the club operates the venue. They own the business 62 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 4: that you would work under as a stripper. If you're 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 4: in that venue, but they don't own you, you're not 64 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 4: working for the interests of their business. They own the club, 65 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 4: and they operate the bar, and they have responsible for security, 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 4: and they have a stage and you know, all the 67 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 4: things that you need as a stripper, and so really 68 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 4: it should be like the stripper is contracting the club. 69 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 4: You know, I need this, like we need to work 70 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 4: together in order for either of our businesses to succeed. 71 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 4: So that's where that like tracting deal comes in. But 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 4: how the clubs view it is really that they have 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 4: a club and everyone who works in that club is 74 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 4: theirs basically to boss around as they please. But really 75 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 4: what that cut should represent is the strippers money that 76 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 4: they're paying towards the club for working there, for having security, 77 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 4: for having a good bar, for having a nice venue 78 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 4: that customers want to go to. That's what that cut 79 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 4: should be paying for. It shouldn't just be like for 80 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: no reason. 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 3: So you've presented a petition to Parliament. 82 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: What are you calling for? 83 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,679 Speaker 4: We are calling for the outlaw of fines and bonds, 84 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 4: a nationwide maximum that have been you can take from 85 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: a contractor's profits, and for adult entertainment workers to be 86 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 4: legally allowed to collectively bargain. 87 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 5: We need to continue this conversation, hopefully right across the 88 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 5: sex industry in this example, and with the support of 89 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 5: quite a few unions who are backing them in this, 90 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 5: to work out what is the legislative solution. And I 91 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 5: really want the Minister to recognize that this is urgent 92 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 5: and really important. It's about safety as well as fairness. 93 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 5: People are just trying to pay their bills and they 94 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 5: shouldn't be made unsafe and have their wages driven down 95 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 5: because of that imbalance amount. 96 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 4: Yeah. 97 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: So when you say fines, what could entertainers be actually 98 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: fined for? Because this is quite unique to the industry. A. 99 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, we haven't come across any other workplaces that deal 100 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 4: with fines. It really depends on the club you work for. 101 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 4: They've all got different fines lists, and there are a 102 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 4: couple that don't have them, but that's not the normal. 103 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 4: The most egregious ones that we have on file are 104 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 4: from the Calendar Girls twenty twenty three contract. When you 105 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 4: find it the worst one on that list, I think 106 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 4: the one that we tend to your attention to the 107 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 4: most is the five hundred dollars for rudeness to management 108 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 4: plus four feitzure of fifty percent of your tips. And 109 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 4: there's no criteria of what rudeness is or it looks like, 110 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 4: or when it's reasonable versus unreasonable. But the other big 111 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 4: problem with the finding system is that there's no recourse. 112 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 4: You know, you can't go and be like, no, that 113 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 4: didn't happen, or this is my side of the story. 114 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 4: How it happens is instead of picking up your full 115 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 4: pay on Thursday or whatever day, you pick up your 116 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 4: pay and will be missing a few hundred dollars and 117 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 4: when you ask why, you'll be told that you've got 118 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 4: to find for something. And there are plenty of testimonies 119 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: of people who have been fined and then like they're 120 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 4: just the reason is not really there at all, but 121 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 4: there's no way to address it. 122 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: It seems wild to me that this has been going 123 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: on for so long, especially the fines. I mean, I 124 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: can't imagine it'd be ignored if it were a bunch 125 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: of trade's or something, or contractors on a work site. Hey, 126 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: if they're five minutes late, they'll fined one hundred and 127 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: fifty dollars. 128 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, you wouldn't imagine. So I don't know. I've never 129 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 4: worked as a tradee on a work site, but I 130 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 4: know that. 131 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: But I'm just assuming that nothing, that it'd be fixed tomorrow. 132 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: I mean, why can't this change? What if the government 133 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: officials said. 134 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 4: They've pretty much all said that they don't have capacity 135 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 4: to take on the things that we've reported so far, 136 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 4: and there's not really been any recommendations as to what 137 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 4: we actually could do without any kind of legislation change. 138 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 4: The most positive feedback from any of these Select Committee 139 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 4: hearings that we've had about our petition has been the 140 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 4: Commerce Commission suggesting that if individual contractors were able to 141 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 4: challenge a contract term as being unfair, then that would 142 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 4: relieve pressure on the Commerce Commission and be better for individuals. 143 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 4: That wouldn't solve our problem at all. I mean, it 144 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 4: would mean that individuals could challenge fair contract terms, but 145 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 4: then we still have all the other barriers to accessing 146 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 4: support in the first place that we would still be 147 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 4: dealing with. So it's more like that would get us 148 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff where we 149 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 4: don't have one, but it wouldn't be protecting anyone from 150 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 4: experiencing harm. And other than that, there's been there's actually 151 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 4: been no suggestions, So that's I don't know what they're 152 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 4: thinking because they haven't said like anything that sounds positive 153 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 4: or like we would solve a problem. 154 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's interesting how the whole contracting and not 155 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: being able to unionize as a contractor, that's something called 156 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: cartel bargaining. 157 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: Yes, what is that used for? 158 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 4: It's like an anti competition thing between I guess between 159 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: any business. Is what it's supposed to be used for, 160 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 4: to stop like all the plumbers from price fixing, so 161 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 4: that no one in one location can afford a plumber anymore. 162 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 4: I think like it's kind of the idea of it, 163 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 4: but that doesn't apply to us at all, because we 164 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 4: already have such a huge power imbalance between us as 165 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 4: a workforce of strippers in a club versus the owner 166 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 4: of the club, that we we need to be able 167 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: to collectively bargain because there's no way to individually do anything. 168 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: I remember in October representatives from the Commerce Commission front 169 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: of the Education and Workforce Committee, and this stuck out 170 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: to me. They said, we were concerned we would put 171 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: considerable time and effort into this matter without necessarily having 172 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: a good and widespread impact across the sector. Now, to me, 173 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: that translates to something like reluctance to do anything because 174 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: it's a bit hard and it doesn't affect as many. 175 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: People as they lie. You're probably used to responses like 176 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: this one. 177 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 4: Hey, is it frustrating, Yeah, it's really frustrating, But I 178 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 4: was just reading the response from the Commerce Commission saying 179 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 4: saying that it's just like, what more do we have 180 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 4: to do in order to get any kind of help 181 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 4: from people who make laws on this, you know, like 182 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 4: or people who are supposed to enforce safe workplaces or 183 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 4: supposed to protect people who work anywhere. You know, so 184 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 4: many of our problems come from experiencing stigma and from 185 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 4: being women as well in female dominated workplaces that are 186 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 4: often owned by men. And these are all issues that 187 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 4: we did not create. We did not create stigma or ourselves. 188 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 189 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: Fired up Stilettos also speaks of the stigma surrounding the industry, 190 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: which I think is really important, and it impedes workers' 191 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: access to justice as well. You've written adult entertainment workers 192 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 2: suffer prejudice and discrimination within institutions including work Safe, the 193 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 2: Criminal Court, Commerce Commission, the Employment Relations Authority, and the 194 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: Disputes Tribunal basically everyone. 195 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 4: Stigma has like a profound impact not just on the 196 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 4: way society views you and you know, the kind of 197 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 4: barriers you're going to run into if people are viewing 198 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 4: through a stigmatized lens, but also on the way that 199 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 4: you view yourself, Like for example, when I started stripping 200 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 4: and I did actually tell my parents about it, and 201 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 4: then I had I got into this mindset of having 202 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 4: to defend the job and defend the club. So then 203 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 4: when I was at work and I was like thinking, 204 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 4: we don't have enough rights. Maybe this isn't how a 205 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 4: workplace should be, YadA, YadA. It's much harder to have 206 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 4: those thoughts and then do anything about them because you've 207 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 4: already backed yourself into a corner in a way. 208 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I told you so treatment yeah. 209 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: Exactly, or even recognizing that you deserve rights because so 210 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 4: many of us are told you know, what, did you expect? 211 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 4: Get a different job if you don't like it. 212 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: Let's use work Safe as an example. 213 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: So what reasons were given by them when it declined 214 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: to intervene or even assign an inspector following a complaint 215 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: about uneven floor surfaces, black mold, unsanitary toilets and showers, 216 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: and a lack of security. 217 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 4: They said it is unlikely to meet the threshold to 218 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 4: trigger an investigation. This is because work safe has finite 219 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 4: investigation resources which we deploy towards investigating fatal and serious harm. 220 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 4: I think there is a real idea among the institutions 221 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 4: that what we're experiencing isn't serious harm, and that is 222 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 4: quite hard to combat. Like there are a lot of 223 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 4: people who leave the industry and just immediately get on 224 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 4: like an ACC benefit for trauma, and that is also 225 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 4: having impacts on the state obviously if they're being paid 226 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 4: by ACC. So I like, it's in everyone's best interests 227 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 4: to help us address the harm that we're experiencing. 228 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: And it's not many workplaces where you go in and 229 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: have a real fear of being sexually assaulted as well. 230 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 4: No, And I mean, and that's the other thing is 231 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 4: they put a lot of emphasis on that, and of 232 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 4: course it is a risk. It's a risk anywhere, and 233 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: it can be more of a resk depending on the 234 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 4: mindset of the patrons that come in, and you don't 235 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 4: know who that's going to be, just like you don't 236 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 4: need any other business. But that risk should be it 237 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 4: should be more mitigated than in real life because of 238 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 4: the presence of security and staff who are attentive and 239 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 4: know what to do. Like, all of those things should 240 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 4: be happening, and I'm not saying that they do happen, 241 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: but there is opportunity for that to be actually a 242 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 4: really safe space. But the spaces are being made unsafe 243 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 4: predominantly by the people who run them, not by the customers. 244 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 6: We have laws in this country that supposedly protect against trafficking, 245 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 6: but what about our own citizens who are working off 246 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 6: manipulated depth and venues because there is no effective way 247 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 6: to challenge it. The current profit share has some workers 248 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,479 Speaker 6: in our industry leaving in depth mentally unwill, physically exhausted, 249 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 6: and results in benefit dependency if this committee does not 250 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 6: commit to an effective change now, like so many of 251 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 6: our club managers have told us, every day and your 252 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 6: girl turns out, and this is what they will be 253 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 6: walking into. 254 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: In terms of So we've spoken about collective baggining and 255 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: outlawing fines, Yeah, what about setting a maximum that venues 256 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: can take. 257 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 4: This is an interesting one because I think people generally 258 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: hear it as within the contractor space, as being like, 259 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 4: how could you possibly you know? Like that doesn't interest 260 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 4: of all parties, blah blah blah, And that's all well 261 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 4: and good, but people need to remember that we do 262 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 4: not work for the interests of these businesses. We work 263 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: with them, but we are our own business, our own 264 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 4: contractors deciding how we work when we work, ideally, deciding 265 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 4: how we work when we work, what services we're willing 266 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 4: to offer, how we want to present ourselves, and we 267 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 4: can make all of those adjustments with our own business 268 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 4: interests in mind. But the venues are making at the moment, 269 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 4: and let's use Calendiles as an example. At Calendile's, at 270 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 4: the moment, the venues are making fifty percent of every 271 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 4: thing every working dancer earns in their venue. They're also 272 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 4: making money from the bar. They're also making money from 273 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 4: the door fee that they're able to charge because they 274 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 4: have strippers working in their venue, and the strippers don't 275 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 4: see any of the profits from the bar, or the 276 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: profits from the door sales or any of that stuff. 277 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 4: The idea that the club should be taking fifty percent 278 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 4: of a stripper's income is just absurd. 279 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: So you guys are saying twenty percent should be the 280 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,359 Speaker 2: absolute maximum. And that's for things like you said before, security, 281 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: the bar, the venue, the promotion, et cetera. 282 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 4: Working in a well maintained venue. 283 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: Yes, so strippers are contractors. 284 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: People suggest to get around the whole collective bargaining thing 285 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: to become employees instead of contractors, Can you explain to 286 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: me why that probably isn't the best option. 287 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, So there's a few reasons. The most important one, 288 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 4: I suppose, or the one at the forefront, is that 289 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 4: for our job to be safe, because it is like, 290 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 4: it's not always sexual job, but it definitely can be 291 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 4: like a sexually natured job. In order for that to 292 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 4: be safe, you need to be able to withdraw your 293 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 4: concenter anytime and change your mind. And so any idea 294 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 4: that the club could be controlling or managing or dictating 295 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 4: what workers are doing is really unsafe. And that's already 296 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 4: the problem that we're dealing with. So we kind of 297 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 4: feel that to make us employees would be to put 298 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 4: us in a closer relationship with the venues. We would be, 299 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 4: in that case directly working for the interests of that business, 300 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 4: not for ourselves, And we don't want that. We don't 301 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 4: want to be close with them. We just want them 302 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 4: to not be able to control us into behaving like 303 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 4: employees when we're actually independent contractors. 304 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 305 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And then being an employee would then mean that 306 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: you have to book holidays off and etc. 307 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: And put that trust in your employer. 308 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: More So, how has the industry responded to your petition 309 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: really positively. 310 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 4: We've had a lot of support from dancers all across 311 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: the country and. 312 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: Even overseas as well. 313 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 4: Hey yeah, yeah, overseas as well. So it's really interesting 314 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 4: because there's a lot of stripper based I don't know, activism, 315 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 4: labor rights movements happening across the world, and it's hard. 316 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 4: We don't exactly work together on our plans because we 317 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 4: all work in different labor rights context everyone has different laws, 318 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 4: et cetera. But it's really amazing to interact with them 319 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 4: and realize that all the things that you're like that 320 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 4: you've realized everything is so harmful, and all of the 321 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 4: systems that are upholding each other in certain ways and 322 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 4: all it starts to feel a bit like your conspiracy 323 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 4: theory when you first like get fired and sit down 324 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 4: and be like damn, like this is actually really bad 325 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 4: and really harmful, and you feel a bit crazy, especially 326 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 4: because the clubs has been telling you you're crazy for 327 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 4: however long. And then you talk to people overseas and 328 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 4: they are coming to the same conclusions about the same problems, 329 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, damn, okay, cool, this is this 330 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 4: is happening everywhere this is not We're not insane. 331 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: And so the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, Andrew Bailey, 332 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: has indicated he's open to a review of the Fair 333 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: Trading Act. Offer told me the Minister intends to review 334 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: the Fair Trading Act next year. 335 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: Do you reckon that's a positive sign? 336 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 4: I suppose if the Communist Commission's concern is that they 337 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 4: don't have the capacity to take on all cases for 338 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 4: unfair contract terms, it is only reasonable that individuals are 339 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 4: able to do that for themselves. But it will not 340 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 4: solve our widest strip club problem. That one change will. 341 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 4: It will offer another avenue to us, which is cool 342 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 4: because we don't have very many. But at the same time, 343 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 4: the ones that we do have don't usually deliver results. 344 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 4: So I can't say whether or not that's positive. 345 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 2: And what are you hoping for when the Fair Trading 346 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 2: Act is reviewed next year? Obviously the end of fines, 347 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 2: but also collective bargaining and of course the twenty percent 348 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: maximum take right. 349 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I would hope that all the things that 350 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 4: we have put in our possession would be delivered on 351 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 4: because those are the things that we've assessed are necessary 352 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 4: our industry to be safe. 353 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Margo. 354 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 4: No worries, thanks for having me. 355 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 356 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 357 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 2: at enzdhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 358 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also 359 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 2: our sound engineer. 360 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 361 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 362 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another 363 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: look behind the headlines.