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Speaker 1: It's a big move from the government today on the

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Speaker 1: use of puberty blockers. From the nineteenth of December, transgender

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Speaker 1: children will no longer have access to puberty blockers unless

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Speaker 1: they're already using them. Puberty blockers, by the way, if

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Speaker 1: you don't know other hormones that delay puberty and young

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Speaker 1: people can stop it all together. Simeon Brown is the

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Speaker 1: Health Minister and with us high.

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Speaker 2: Simeon Hi, here the hell you'm well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Why have you moved to effectively ban them

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Speaker 1: all together?

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Speaker 2: We are following the evidence from both the CAST report

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Speaker 2: and also the Ministry of Health evidence brief from last year,

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Speaker 2: which showed there's a lack of high quality evidence that

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Speaker 2: demonstrates the benefits or risks of the use of these

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Speaker 2: treatments on children with gender dysphoria or incongruence. And while

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Speaker 2: this uncertainty persists, we're taking a precautionary approach for our

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Speaker 2: children to make sure that there are strongest safeguards in place,

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Speaker 2: and effectively, what we're doing is putting in place a

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Speaker 2: restriction on the prescribing of these drugs for this purpose,

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Speaker 2: to make sure that those that those who are prescribing

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Speaker 2: look at what are the wider range of treatments or

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Speaker 2: things that can be done to support those children.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what is the uncertainty is it whether this is reversible?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a range of things which has been considered

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Speaker 2: as part of the CASTS Report, its impacts in terms

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Speaker 2: of a child's development, impacts on in terms of the

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Speaker 2: organs and other things which have been considered. Effectively, the

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Speaker 2: evidence through the CAST Report and also the Ministry of

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Speaker 2: Health's Evidence Brief basically found there's not it. There's been

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Speaker 2: no high quality evidence to prove the benefits or risks

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Speaker 2: of these treatments, all these drugs for this purpose, and therefore,

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Speaker 2: in terms with the absence of that, we need to

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Speaker 2: take a precautionary approach in these instances, and that's why

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Speaker 2: we're following what the UK has done in which we're

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Speaker 2: putting a band in place for the prescribing of these drugs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. Did you not think about an intermediate

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Speaker 1: step perhaps where you let it a clinical psychologist or

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Speaker 1: somebody who's very well trained make the decision for transgender

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Speaker 1: children who are genuinely trans.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a range of other things and services which

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Speaker 2: are provided for children who do present two clinicians with

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Speaker 2: gender incongruence or gender dysphoria, and we expect those clinicians

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Speaker 2: to continue to work with them and their families. We've

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Speaker 2: also made the decision, and are.

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Speaker 1: They able to prescribe puberty blockers.

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Speaker 2: No, they won't be able to, but they'll be able

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Speaker 2: to consider other interventions, and there's a range of interventions

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Speaker 2: that are well, there's a range of psychosocial interventions that

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Speaker 2: are provided to support children and their families as they

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Speaker 2: go that process.

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Speaker 1: Just to be clear, there is nothing that can stop

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Speaker 1: them from actually developing into a man or a woman right.

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Speaker 2: Well, effectively, the evidence, as I said, the evidence from

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Speaker 2: both the Cash Report and also the Ministry of Health's

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Speaker 2: Evidence Brief shows a lack of evidence around the safeguards

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Speaker 2: in terms of the safety of these particular drugs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean that's cool. I understand what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to Just as attainers, any kind of interventions will

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Speaker 1: help that are able to be provided. If you don't

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Speaker 1: have the puberty blockers, These kids will have to go

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Speaker 1: through puberty, will have to become the gender they don't

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Speaker 1: think they.

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Speaker 2: Are, right, and there's a range of other interventions that

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Speaker 2: can be provided for those children through that process as

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Speaker 2: they grow older, to be able to ensure that they

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Speaker 2: can go through the process and receive that and that's

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Speaker 2: what we expect those clinicians to provide those services for them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now this is basically essentially an effective pause until

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Speaker 1: this clinical trial is completed in the UK. How long

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Speaker 1: is that going to take?

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Speaker 2: Well, it will take some time. Clinical trials are not

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Speaker 2: done overnight, so I imagine that will take probably some years.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately the decision has been made in the same

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Speaker 2: way that the UK government has in what some of

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Speaker 2: the Scandinavian countries have done, which is effectively put a

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Speaker 2: pause on the prescribing of these drugs whilst there is

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Speaker 2: further evidence collected. Government is ahead of where we are.

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Speaker 2: They've already started work and putting together a clinical trial

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Speaker 2: and once that clinical trial has reported its evidence, that

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Speaker 2: will allow the Ministry of Health to provide us with

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Speaker 2: further evidence as to what the decision should be going forward.

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Speaker 1: Sam and thanks very much for talking us through. To

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Speaker 1: appreciate it, So me and Brown Health Minister.

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Speaker 2: For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio