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Speaker 1: Kiota.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. From the

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Speaker 2: streets of New York to around the world, the Mamdani

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Speaker 2: Effect is taking shape. Democratic socialist Zorn Mumdani won the

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Speaker 2: city's mayoralty earlier this month, sparking a new era when

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Speaker 2: an election turnout higher than any race in the last

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Speaker 2: fifty years. But this isn't just an American story. The

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Speaker 2: energy around this movement, It's bold ideas on justice, economics

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Speaker 2: and climate change is resonating with jen Z far beyond

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Speaker 2: the US. So what exactly is the Mamdani effect and

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Speaker 2: what does it tell us about the future of politics today?

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Speaker 2: On the Front Page, Victoria University of Wellington se lecturer

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Speaker 2: doctor Mona Quiel is with us to discuss how this

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Speaker 2: kind of politics could redefine the power and purpose of

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Speaker 2: the next generation of leaders. So, Minor, when people talk

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Speaker 2: about the Mamdani effect, what do you reckon that actually means?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So over all, I would say it's mostly like

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Speaker 3: a buzzword that has made the rounds. In the context

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Speaker 3: of the election, when Mandami was elected mayor of New York,

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Speaker 3: so it's actually more term that like journalists have coined

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Speaker 3: to describe the excitement around the Mandami election, then it's

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Speaker 3: actually a phenomena or an academic term. So he's a

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Speaker 3: member of the Democratic Party, he's identifying as a socialist,

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Speaker 3: he's young, and he is Muslim, and so this is

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Speaker 3: the opposite of the reactionary republican Trump politician type that

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Speaker 3: the US has recently mostly seen. So he's also the

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Speaker 3: opposite of the moderate oldies that the Democratic Party has

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Speaker 3: presented in the decades, such as Joe Biden. So that

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Speaker 3: someone like him could still get elected was actually a symbol,

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Speaker 3: i would say, of hope for all those who are

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Speaker 3: more progressive in the country. And so it got coined

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Speaker 3: at as the Mandami effect because it showed that politics

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Speaker 3: or the politics that he stands for, that those are

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Speaker 3: still successfully drawing voters. And so more than it being

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Speaker 3: an actual effect, it tells you something also about the

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Speaker 3: journalists in the US who came up with that term

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Speaker 3: and their hopes for the country and for themselves. Because

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Speaker 3: the media is under a lot of pressure in the

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Speaker 3: USA from the Trump administration at the moment, and the

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Speaker 3: freedom of present independent media coverage is actually at stake,

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Speaker 3: So for journalists, they had high hopes for him, and

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Speaker 3: so I think this was one of the reasons why

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Speaker 3: they took quickly came up with that term, the Mandami effect,

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Speaker 3: and they hoped it would be kind of a trend,

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Speaker 3: and of course it's very catchy. So the Mandami effect

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Speaker 3: as a headline gets you more clicks than thirty four

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Speaker 3: year old socialists and Muslim elected mayor of New York.

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Speaker 3: So the fact that he was an unlikely candidate with

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Speaker 3: unlikely politics and then he that he can get elected

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Speaker 3: already has a lot of news value per se. But

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Speaker 3: when it coincidence with the fact and the hope of

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Speaker 3: many journalists who are also more on the left side,

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Speaker 3: leaving Vox News aside, then basically media hype is born,

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Speaker 3: and of course that quickly gets named. So in other words,

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Speaker 3: I would say the Mandami effect tells you at least

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Speaker 3: as much about journalists in the US who are currently

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Speaker 3: under pressure as it tells you about voters preferences.

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Speaker 2: And what kind of issues did he run on that

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Speaker 2: were seen so out of left field?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think his branding was kind of different

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Speaker 3: from what we currently see in US politics. So He's

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Speaker 3: the opposite of the reactionary Trump politics of this administration

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Speaker 3: and the Republicans. So for many that actually makes him

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Speaker 3: like a hero who kind of can turn the Handmaid's

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Speaker 3: Tales story around. His platform send us a lot around

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Speaker 3: equity and affordability, and that includes things like rand control

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Speaker 3: or raising the minimum age. So literally opposite of what

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration stands for, and so it's also the

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Speaker 3: opposite of the so called He's also, I think the

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Speaker 3: opposite of the so called Washington elite, and he effectively

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Speaker 3: uses this in a sense that surely makes him a

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Speaker 3: little bit more left wing populist, and left wing populism

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Speaker 3: is more known for redistributional politics, and so that stands

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Speaker 3: out in the USA at the moment because it's different

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Speaker 3: from the right wing populism that they have seen in

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Speaker 3: recent years.

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Speaker 2: I quite liked this line from a New Yorker pace

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Speaker 2: that I read is written by a journalist there named

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Speaker 2: Eric Locke. I'll read it out to here. Mam Dani

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Speaker 2: offered his supporters an unsullied message of hope. He emphasized

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Speaker 2: the similarities between Trump, Como and Adams all figures forward

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Speaker 2: in the New York Political scene of the past century,

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Speaker 2: trapped in a psychodrama where nineteen eighty three never ended.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that expression gives a really good

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Speaker 2: US versus them mentality, And like you said that that

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Speaker 2: kind of Washington elite per se, and especially in New

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Speaker 2: York as well. You can imagine nineteen eighty three. You've

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Speaker 2: got Trump Tower, you've got Golden toilets, you've got Wall Street,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it gives you those kind of a

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Speaker 2: real picture of what he was kind of fighting against.

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Speaker 2: And people resonated with that, really, didn't they.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, So I do think this is very well captured,

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Speaker 3: like the laughing populism, he stands for setting himself aside

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Speaker 3: from this elite, and that's actually what popularism is about.

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Speaker 3: So the dichotomy of us the people against the elite,

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Speaker 3: and even like included like other candidates like in that

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Speaker 3: and yeah, you have I think very well described how

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Speaker 3: he is different from those elites and the Golden Towers.

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Speaker 3: So I did live in upstate New York for a

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Speaker 3: long time so and spend all of my weekends in

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Speaker 3: New York, so I can relate to what you are

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Speaker 3: describing or what the line in that article has been describing,

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Speaker 3: and I mean like it really resonated with people, and

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Speaker 3: probably particularly also with like Gen Z voters, who stand

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Speaker 3: like for it's a different generation, different from previous generation

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Speaker 3: in many important ways. So they are more racially and

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Speaker 3: ethnically diverse than any previous generation. So I think they're

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Speaker 3: even like projected in by twenty twenty six to become

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Speaker 3: a majority non white generation. And so basically they are

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Speaker 3: also on track to be the most well educated generation

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Speaker 3: ever and so highly educated people and also very much

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Speaker 3: support redistributional politics more than people with like lower education,

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Speaker 3: and of course this has like better chance to resonate

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Speaker 3: with people and that generation then it has like probably

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Speaker 3: had previous generations, and so in New Yorkers are also

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Speaker 3: known as much more progressive than the rest of the country.

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Speaker 3: So I think it is still an open question if

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Speaker 3: this would have been flying with the rest of the

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Speaker 3: country or nationwide. I know some people were quick to

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Speaker 3: say this is a nationwide movement, but I think urban

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Speaker 3: voters are in general more progressive than rural voters in

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Speaker 3: New York are also known to be very progressive, and

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Speaker 3: given that it's a very polarized country, I have some

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Speaker 3: doubts that he could have gotten elected elsewhere in the US.

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Speaker 3: And we are also still talking about the same country

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Speaker 3: who in twenty to sixteen and twenty twenty four was

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Speaker 3: not ready yet to elect a female president. So one

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Speaker 3: progressive mayor does not fully turn that around overnight. And

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Speaker 3: the electorate is also not made of of gen zs

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Speaker 3: and urban population alone, but surely his like platform of

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Speaker 3: equity and affordability he resonated a lot with urban voters,

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Speaker 3: progressive voters, and in particular I think gen.

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Speaker 4: Zs together we will usher in a generation of change.

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Speaker 4: And if we embrace this brave new course, rather than

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Speaker 4: fleeing from it, we can respond to oligarchy and authoritarianism

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Speaker 4: with the strength it fears, not the appeasement it craves.

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Speaker 4: After all, if anyone can show a nation betrayed by

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump how to defeat him, it is the city

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Speaker 4: that gave rise to him. And if there is any

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Speaker 4: way to terrify a despot, it is by dismantling the

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Speaker 4: very conditions that allowed him to accumulate power. This is

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Speaker 4: not only how we stopped Trump, it's how we stop

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Speaker 4: the next one. So, Donald Trump, since I know you're watching,

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Speaker 4: I have four words for you turn the volume up.

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Speaker 2: And I suppose that Generation Z or gen Z are

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Speaker 2: often described as values driven and patient for that systemic change.

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Speaker 2: How might Mamdani's leadership and this display of this kind

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Speaker 2: of Mamdani effect, I suppose, resonate with or I suppose

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Speaker 2: even reshape their expectations of political leaders Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, as I said, we do know they have high education.

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Speaker 3: So we have the highest I think level of like

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Speaker 3: college educated voters ever in the gen Z generation, and

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Speaker 3: so that means more support for read rescript politics. It

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Speaker 3: also means, so a lot of surveys have found about

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Speaker 3: gen zs in the US that they are more pro governments.

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Speaker 3: So that means they do not have this typical like

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Speaker 3: help your self attitude, and that has been embraced in

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Speaker 3: the US for a long time. And so even Gen

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Speaker 3: Z Republicans differ from older Republicans in their attitudes, and

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Speaker 3: they are, for example, much more acknowledging racial inequalities. They

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Speaker 3: are also less likely than older generations to see the

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Speaker 3: USA as superior over other countries. And so in this sense,

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Speaker 3: I think Mandami's politics surely have resonated with them. They

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Speaker 3: are also digital natives, and so if you think of

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Speaker 3: a generation that has no or just probably the earlier

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Speaker 3: ones little memory of an area before the smartphone, and

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Speaker 3: so they can very well approach through social media, which

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Speaker 3: was a cornerstone of his campaign. So whenever ask so, yeah, so,

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Speaker 3: I think when asked about political issues, they do not

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Speaker 3: differ that much from millennials. So I wouldn't expect a

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Speaker 3: huge revolution with all of them becoming eligible to vote.

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Speaker 3: But surely a candidate like Mandani has like a much

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Speaker 3: better chance to resonate with them than like older candidates

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Speaker 3: like Joe Biden, for example.

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Speaker 2: Could his style of politics become a template for young

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Speaker 2: politicians globally? Do you think? And I'm thinking of New

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Speaker 2: Zealand election next year as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I actually do think it could particularly be

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Speaker 3: a template for social democratic and labor parties around the world.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't necessarily say just for young politicians, but I

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Speaker 3: think for that you have to look back a little

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Speaker 3: bit in time and geographically, because there is something that

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Speaker 3: since twenty twelve in Europe has been called pacification. So

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Speaker 3: all of the social democratic parties have lost voters in

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Speaker 3: like high numbers, and at the same time the far

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Speaker 3: right was gaining more and more voters. And so for

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Speaker 3: a long time the media has actually spreading the stock

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Speaker 3: that the social democratic parties and the labor parties have

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Speaker 3: lost voters to the far right, and it was particular

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Speaker 3: the working class who ran away. But if you actually

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Speaker 3: do look into the data of the European election studies,

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Speaker 3: and we do have a lot of data on that,

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Speaker 3: you see that the young voters and highly educated ran

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Speaker 3: away to the green parties. They think like Green is

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Speaker 3: the new rat or is the better left party, whereas

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Speaker 3: the far right actually gained its voters from the non

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Speaker 3: voter bloc and the conservative parties. But these phenomena happening

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Speaker 3: at the same time, and is looking like a scissor

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Speaker 3: in a graph. A lot of people thought these phenomena

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Speaker 3: were related. Not so much the case. So why did

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Speaker 3: the young voters run away to the green parties Because

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Speaker 3: they embraced climate change and politics sustainability, education that matters

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Speaker 3: for them, making education for free in a lot of countries,

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Speaker 3: and LGBTQ pluss rights a lot earlier and more like

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Speaker 3: believable than the social democratic parties did, who were late

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Speaker 3: adopters of these things. And so meanwhile, the best predictor

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Speaker 3: for voting for the center left in Europe is age,

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Speaker 3: which means that these parties are dying like a dinosaur.

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Speaker 3: And so I would actually recommend to LEF parties around

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Speaker 3: the world, if they want to win back like young,

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Speaker 3: highly educated voters, to embrace those left progressive policies more

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Speaker 3: and not what parts of the European media has been

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Speaker 3: suggesting to them for a long time, anti immigration policies

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Speaker 3: and left nationalism, because that will drive those young voters

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Speaker 3: even further away from them. And so actually it would

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Speaker 3: be advisable and they could take a page from that,

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Speaker 3: from that playbook and probably yeah, embrace that trend. I

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Speaker 3: think actually in New Zealand this might have just been

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Speaker 3: a little bit delayed what we have been seeing with

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Speaker 3: social democratic parties in Western Europe, so that they have

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Speaker 3: not been part of that global decline yet because it

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Speaker 3: has been brushed over a little bit, like with an

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Speaker 3: attractive young author like to Sinda Adirn and so, but

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Speaker 3: also the Labor Party here would be advised to go

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Speaker 3: more for those progressive policies. I would say. However, the

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Speaker 3: US is still a highly polarized country and so progressiveness

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Speaker 3: at least progressiveness at least I think on the national

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Speaker 3: level must be prescribed to them in like pretty careful doses,

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Speaker 3: or just sprinkled into a Democratic campaign. So because getting

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Speaker 3: a Mandami like president elected is proborty, still too much

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Speaker 3: of a move for this country, But you I could

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Speaker 3: imagine a moderate presidential candidate with a more progressive, younger

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Speaker 3: VC choice, maybe so, or at least having people like

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Speaker 3: Mandami or Alexandra Ocasio Corotest play a bigger role in

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Speaker 3: the Democratic Party in the future. I think this would

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Speaker 3: resonate a lot, with the gen Z voters in particular,

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Speaker 3: more and more of them becoming like voting age.

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Speaker 2: A self proclaimed socialist just won the race for New

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Speaker 2: York City mayor. We hit the streets see how Yorkers

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Speaker 2: are reacting.

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Speaker 5: I was disappointed, he says a lot. He's charismatic, but

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Speaker 5: so was Castro.

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Speaker 6: I was reluctantly thankful because he was just the best

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Speaker 6: out of three that didn't quite work out.

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Speaker 4: I do fear for the future of the Democratic Party

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Speaker 4: if this is a brand of liberalism that sticks.

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Speaker 6: My initial thought, it's embarrassing for thirty four years old

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Speaker 6: turn probably the most successful city in the world it's

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Speaker 6: a disgrace for a city that was built by Jewish

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Speaker 6: immigrants and made it to be the greatest city in

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Speaker 6: the world.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because I was walking, I'd kind of like

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Speaker 2: to take in the energy of the city, especially after

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Speaker 2: such a big night.

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Speaker 3: I feel like there's a calm energy now, so I

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Speaker 3: think there's hope.

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Speaker 1: And many people are saying this is a major shift

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Speaker 1: in politics in the city. Do you feel that changed today,

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Speaker 1: and if so, what fears or hopes do you have?

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Speaker 5: First day out calling out Donald Trump, he doesn't know

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Speaker 5: who he's getting in the ring with. As Tyson once said,

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Speaker 5: everybody has a plan until you get to do the face,

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Speaker 5: so will see. I don't think he's going to be

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Speaker 5: able to change much.

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Speaker 3: I'm a little skeptical about how he's going to get

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Speaker 3: everything done. I think that's what a lot of people are.

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Speaker 6: I fear that the Democratic Party would keep losing working

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Speaker 6: class vords.

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Speaker 4: It makes me more cautious.

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Speaker 1: I lived in New York most of my life and

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Speaker 1: it's a very weird future. I'm going to see. He

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Speaker 1: says he's going to give free buses. Who pays for that?

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Speaker 1: I do business to pay for that helps nobody. You know,

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Speaker 1: the policies he's giving is not beneficial for the.

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Speaker 2: City, and especially as well you mentioned before social media,

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Speaker 2: and of course I saw everything. I wasn't even looking

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Speaker 2: for the Mamdani social media channels and I found them

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Speaker 2: upon my I think it was hot girls for Mamdani.

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Speaker 2: Then you had the Africans for Mamdani, Muslims for Mamdani,

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Speaker 2: all in this really bright colored green. I mean no,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't green, it was orange and blue, beautifully just played.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was just it. There must be parties

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Speaker 2: around the world studying those Instagram feeds and those TikTok

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Speaker 2: fades and seeing what they did, because it did speak

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Speaker 2: to current generations and people entering the voter base.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, so absolutely so. I think his social media

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Speaker 3: complaign played a huge role in his success. Social media

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Speaker 3: campaigns become more and more important around the world anyway.

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Speaker 3: But I think he was successful for basically like three reasons.

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Speaker 3: So first of all, he linked very well his online

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Speaker 3: content to his offline campaign. So he talked, for example,

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Speaker 3: to ordinary people on the streets why they voted for

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Speaker 3: Trump and presented his agenda to them, and then he

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Speaker 3: put it on TikTok and so offline and online were

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Speaker 3: very well connected. The second thing, it was believable, so

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Speaker 3: he was using social media naturally so as people of

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Speaker 3: his generation do so. With older politicians, it has been

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Speaker 3: very in the past. So think of Joe Biden joining

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Speaker 3: with like in his late seventies snapchat and he got

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Speaker 3: ridiculous by gen Z voters for that. So authenticity matters

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Speaker 3: a lot on social media. And this is also why

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Speaker 3: influenzas influenza have such like huge followers following ships. So

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Speaker 3: for example, Trump is also successful with his audience because

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Speaker 3: he is authentic, so even his typos in his social

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Speaker 3: media posts are authentic. And I think the third reason

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Speaker 3: why his social media campaign was so successful is probably

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Speaker 3: he embraced this everyday celebrity politician style as it's called

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Speaker 3: in political communication research. So this is like more trying

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Speaker 3: to make yourself relatable and very much including influenza style

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Speaker 3: elements in your campaign. This is in stark contrast to

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Speaker 3: the super celebrity politician of the past that we have

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Speaker 3: been seeing in the past, which is more traditional personalization

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Speaker 3: streatch and portrays politicians more as like extraordinary charismatic leaders.

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Speaker 3: So most politicians these days already mixed post strategies. We

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Speaker 3: have seen this from Christopher Luxan in a twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: three campaign, who tried to balance that out and presented

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Speaker 3: this traditional super celebrity politician more on Facebook where you

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Speaker 3: have an older audience, and the everyday celebrity politicians he

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Speaker 3: saved for his tiktoks with a younger audience. So I

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Speaker 3: think in like the social media age of campaigning, you

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Speaker 3: will see this more and more from politicians, and Mandami

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Speaker 3: is probably surely one of those who's like at the

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Speaker 3: forefront of this. I would think that is actually like

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Speaker 3: a really good point that campaign managers do usually watch

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Speaker 3: trends all over the world, and so campaign contacts differ

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Speaker 3: between countries, of course, and you cannot always fully copy

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Speaker 3: campaigns because you cannot transplant them into different campaign contacts

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Speaker 3: because would be incompatible. But they surely shop and we

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Speaker 3: have seen this in all campaigns all around the world

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Speaker 3: from successful examples around the world, and they really study

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Speaker 3: them and they even go there for exchanges. So also

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Speaker 3: Marine le Pen's campaign visited his Trump's campaigners and they

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Speaker 3: have been sitting together in the Trump Tower. There are

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Speaker 3: pictures of that kind of stuff. So in particular between

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Speaker 3: like parties of the same ideology, we see them like

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Speaker 3: exchanging campaign knowledge.

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Speaker 2: And I even think with Dana, I don't know that

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Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with the social media campaign, but even the

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Speaker 2: font that they chose is very I suppose trendy right now,

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Speaker 2: right and the color and the boldness of the colors,

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Speaker 2: and even the campaign imagery. You know, half of them

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Speaker 2: that I saw it looked like they had been taken

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Speaker 2: on a two thousands digital camera. That is very trendy

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Speaker 2: right now, even down to the very you know, the

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Speaker 2: placement of things is very so I think that it's

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Speaker 2: it's more than I've no just it, more than I

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Speaker 2: ever have before, I think with the men Danny one,

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Speaker 2: and that's why I was so interested in taking aback

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even the corporate design that was it was all

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Speaker 3: perfect until the last bit, and you could really see

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Speaker 3: like this was a young group of campaigners handling that

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Speaker 3: knowing what they're doing in the social media age, because

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Speaker 3: it always becomes cringe when you put the old campaign

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Speaker 3: manage on that rather have the intern was twanty something

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Speaker 3: and a college kid run the social media campaign these days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent because all the money in the

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Speaker 2: world and this is something else that I've been wanting

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Speaker 2: to talk about as well, the Bezoses' They've just announced

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Speaker 2: that they are funding the met Gala, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's just such a all the all the money in

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Speaker 2: the world cannot buy you class or call, which I

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Speaker 2: think is something that that's completely another topic for another day,

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Speaker 2: So stay tuned. Thank you so much for joining us, Mona, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: thank you. That's it for this episode of The Front Page.

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Speaker 2: You can read more about today's stories and extensive news

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Speaker 2: coverage at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page

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Speaker 2: is produced by Jane Yee and Richard Martin, who is

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Speaker 2: also our editor.

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Speaker 3: I'm Chelsea Daniels.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look

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Speaker 2: behind the headlines.