1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Heather Duplessy Ellen say, who's excited about it? Ben Bailey 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: the key with Chef. He's going to be with us 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: after half past five. Nine two nine two is the 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: text number. Standard text fees apply. 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 2: Now. 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: The fallout continues from the government's plan to deal with 7 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: Auckland's homeless. It turns out the idea originally came from 8 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Sunny Koschel's Crime Advisory Group, and the original idea was 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: not to ban homeless, but to introduce move on orders. 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Chloe Swaarbrook is the MP for Auckland Central. 11 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: Hi. 12 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: Chloe Shaada, You okay with the idea of a move 13 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: on order. 14 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: Well, look, I welcome the government's long overdue focus on Auckland, 15 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: but what the evidence shows is that this is not 16 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: actually going to solve the problem. It merely moves it along. 17 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: In the last week or so, I have re engaged 18 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: with Minister Mark Mitchell, who's back on deck, and I 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: am feeling as though there's a constructive way through this. 20 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: I think that it is rather hysterical for the government 21 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: to respond to an issue of its own making, that 22 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: is increased homelessness, by coming down hard on criminalizing those 23 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: who it is made homeless. So I think it's time 24 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: for us to get to the core route issues here 25 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 2: and to invest sensibly to resolve them. 26 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so if you don't like the idea of move 27 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: on orders and you don't think it works, what should 28 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: we do? What's a better idea? 29 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, I think obviously what is really clear 30 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: is that the issues that have been identified by number 31 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: of my constituents and a number of small businesses, particularly 32 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: in the city center, is the fact that there are 33 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: a number of people who are using our streets as 34 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: kind of a third space, which makes sense given that 35 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: emergency housing is not a particularly nice place to spend 36 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And 37 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: then of course we also have those who are still 38 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 2: not getting access to housing. So a form of day center, 39 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 2: which is something which I've been advocating for for a 40 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: long time, along with a number of other service providers, 41 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: where people are able to use that space to have 42 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: a cup of tea and to engage with wrap around 43 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: support services, would be a far better use. 44 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Of place like this, A kitchen like this on k Road, so. 45 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: There had been Back in two thousand and nineteen, I 46 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: worch with the former government off the back of the 47 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: synthetics crisis to get access to some special funding for 48 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: our Odyssey House to run a kind of day center 49 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 2: for LifeWise out of LifeWise Merge Cafe on Kunghape Rods, 50 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: which you rightly identify. Yeah, so that was run by 51 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: peer support services. 52 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: But Merge Cafe is still there. 53 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, Merge Cafe is still there and it is still 54 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 2: used by a number of people, but that special funding 55 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,399 Speaker 2: for the specific wrap around support services for those experiencing 56 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: addiction is no longer running. 57 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: Were talking about nice people who are just sitting around 58 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: having a chat, right we are talking about people who 59 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: shouted other people who cause a nuisance, who are actually 60 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: threatening and disruptive. What do you do about them? 61 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? So look again engaging directly with service providers and 62 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: actually with our beat cops in Auckland City Center. The 63 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: police themselves are the first to say that they are 64 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: not equipped or resource to deal with social issues. And 65 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: even if they were to move people along, which they 66 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: kind of do on a day to day basis at 67 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: the moment, that doesn't stop someone from pop been back 68 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 2: up in the exact same place the next day. Right now, 69 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: it seems like really the only place that these people 70 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: can end up being cut. Is being held overnight in 71 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: the cells? Again, that doesn't go anywhere near towards resolving 72 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: the problem. 73 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: Yes, but is that not police telling? Is it not better, 74 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: Chloe for the person who's got a shop there that 75 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: that person is not there overnight and is in the cells. 76 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not ideal, but it is a better situation, 77 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: isn't it. 78 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: I mean you've kind of phut the nail on the 79 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: head by saying it's not ideal. And if we're seeing 80 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: this as a p this is a pipeline into the 81 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: criminal justice system. And if we want to talk about 82 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: spending good money after bad for worse and wors results, 83 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: we know that it costs too. 84 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: I know, but give me, don't give me the problems 85 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: and how complicated this is because I know that what 86 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: do we do about the situation in the if you 87 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: don't want them to be moved on? What do we do? 88 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: So this is exactually what I was saying at the start. 89 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: We need to fund more of these days. 90 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: But you're talking about a day center, Chloe, for people 91 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: who are you know, going to be cooperative. I'm talking 92 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: about the ones who are lying around doing drugs, shouting 93 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: at people walking around being difficult, What do you do 94 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: about them? 95 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: Well, that's where the social service support and again many 96 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: of those outreach kind of people within community are funded 97 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: by many of those social service providers, the likes of 98 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: which I'm meeting on Friday morning. 99 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: Can they go into those people and take those people away? 100 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: There would be the opportunity for those those outreach workers 101 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: to directly connect with people and then to put them 102 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: into the lights of these day centers to connect against 103 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: their will. 104 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking about the uncooperative ones. What do 105 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: you do about the uncoperative ones? It seems to be 106 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: the only thing you can do is chuck them in 107 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: jail or move them on. 108 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: Well, that is currently what is happening. If somebody is 109 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: being immensely disruptive and bordering on violence or otherwise, then 110 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: that is the role for the police, and that is 111 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: how they are currently respondible. 112 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: You know that doesn't happen that much because you live 113 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: around there. 114 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: I do live in the city. Raining again, I think 115 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 2: this is where again, this is where I come back to. 116 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: If we actually want to tangibly, meaningfully and practically practically 117 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: resolve these issues, then as you say, there are some 118 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: people who are at the most egregious end where it 119 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: may be more appropriate for there to be a different 120 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: kind of response. But what I am saying is that 121 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: for the vast majority of people who are experiencing home 122 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: listeners or who are currently put in emergency housing which 123 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: is not fit for purpose, then they are using the 124 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 2: streets as effectively a third space, and that is where 125 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: we can have serious and meaningful investment in these day centers. 126 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: Connect that up with outreach workers who are working with 127 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 2: their social service providers, which looks like a far better 128 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: and far more meaningful investment than simply kicking the can 129 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: down the road where the issue gets worse and worse 130 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: and worse as a pipeline into the criminal justice system. 131 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: Chloe listen, thanks very much. I realize you're really busy today, 132 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: so thank you for your time. That is Chloe swarbrick 133 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: Auckland Central MP. For more from Heather Duplessy, Alan Drive, 134 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks that'd be from four pm weekday, 135 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.