1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Now the pay talks for primary school teachers have broken down.

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,199
Speaker 1: The union has asked the ER, the Employment Relations Authority,

3
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,360
Speaker 1: to step in and make the final call here. Liam

4
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 1: Rutherford is the lead negotiator for the New Zealand Educational

5
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: Institute the NZDI. Hi, Liam, go to Heather, what's gone wrong?

6
00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's fair to say we didn't get

7
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,119
Speaker 2: the outcome out of mediated bargaining that we wanted with

8
00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 2: the Ministry of Education last week, and so teachers have

9
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,000
Speaker 2: been really clear that they're not interested in settling with

10
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 2: a mediocre offer, and so we've reached out to the

11
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,680
Speaker 2: Ministry of Education to see if we can get into urgent,

12
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,920
Speaker 2: facilitated bargaining through the ER.

13
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:41,559
Speaker 1: What are the sticking points?

14
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 2: So there are a number. The most recent one is

15
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 2: that is yet the Ministry just haven't come to the

16
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 2: party with the money that it's going to take to

17
00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,400
Speaker 2: be able to meet the needs facing teachers. We see

18
00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 2: that playing out in a number of areas. One is

19
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 2: around cost of living and particularly an offer that keeps

20
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 2: up with cost of living. One that also sees teachers

21
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,080
Speaker 2: feeling valued for the work that they're doing, and where

22
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 2: we're starting to really see this crunch in the start

23
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,040
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty six is around the level of ambition

24
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 2: that the Ministry of Education's got with her curriculum change

25
00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 2: management plan. We're hearing from teachers across the country that

26
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 2: it isn't just the size of the change, it's also

27
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 2: the speed in which the Ministry of Education wants it

28
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,120
Speaker 2: done by. And while we think that it's great that

29
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,160
Speaker 2: she's really ambitious, it's also about making sure that you're

30
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,559
Speaker 2: recognizing people when you're asking them to go over and above.

31
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 1: Okay, so two point five percent two point one percent

32
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 1: not enough.

33
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we are consistently hearing from teachers. What

34
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 2: you are that's not the that's not the wage that

35
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 2: is going to stop people from moving over to Australia.

36
00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 2: And those types of conversations are playing out across staff rooms.

37
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 2: Staff rooms are across the country. But do you know

38
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 2: what we're continually hearing. What we're continually hearing from people

39
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 2: is that they want to pay offer where they're actually

40
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: going to be valued for the work. And so we

41
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 2: don't have a specific offer on it because these packages

42
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 2: often come down to more than just a percentage pay increase.

43
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 2: We've also been talking with the ministry around how we

44
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,840
Speaker 2: can use and allow it structure to incentivize career pathways,

45
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,239
Speaker 2: because we also know it's not just about bringing people

46
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 2: into the profession, it's also about how we hold on

47
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,160
Speaker 2: to them and having a much clearer and more defined

48
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,239
Speaker 2: career pathway for teachers, particularly those that don't aspire to

49
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 2: going into principalship, is going to be a really important

50
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,240
Speaker 2: part in how we kind of recognize experienced teachers and

51
00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 2: hold on to them.

52
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 1: Are you asking her to slow down with her curriculum

53
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 1: changes as well?

54
00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 2: So not a part of negotiations. I know that there

55
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 2: is a consistent call that we are hearing from the

56
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 2: sector because I think it's important to put it into

57
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 2: cheaping around well. What people are saying is that if

58
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 2: we are going to be moving with the speed, then

59
00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 2: we do need to be valued for the work that

60
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 2: we're doing over and above regular change management.

61
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 1: Is it true that the treaty is holding this up

62
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:15,240
Speaker 1: as well.

63
00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 2: So that is definitely something that we are interested in.

64
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 2: Similar to agreements that you see across the public service,

65
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 2: what we are asking is recognition in our collective Agreement

66
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 2: of Digitity is the founding document of this country. The

67
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 2: position from the government is that they don't negotiate government policy.

68
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 2: And that's just not what we're hearing from teachers. I mean,

69
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:41,920
Speaker 2: ditidity isn't government policy.

70
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 1: I don't have that mine in my job contract. Why

71
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 1: do you want that in yours?

72
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, there are a number of job contracts with

73
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 2: that service. Okay. I guess what we are hearing from

74
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 2: teachers is that they do want to see. They do

75
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 2: want to see, well, what are the tools that they

76
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 2: can use to be able to ensure that we are

77
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: holding on to titity and education?

78
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 1: Because how does having the Treaty recognized as the founding

79
00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 1: document of this country make your pay go up, your

80
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,720
Speaker 1: conditions better, or the children learn more in class?

81
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,040
Speaker 2: Oh I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying

82
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 2: that this is the central piece that is going to

83
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,599
Speaker 2: be the difference as to whether or not this gets

84
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 2: over the line. We do have a ranger claims around pay,

85
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 2: around learning support, around change men.

86
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 1: And it's one of the last things Leam, It's one

87
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 1: of the very last things that's that's caused this thing

88
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: to break down, is that you people want the Treaty

89
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 1: recognized in a contractual document in a place that most

90
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,360
Speaker 1: of us would not expect it to be even mentioned.

91
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,480
Speaker 2: Will I statist agree agree with that. We're hearing from

92
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 2: a number of different workforces that they do want this included,

93
00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,920
Speaker 2: but I don't want to overblow how central this is

94
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 2: what we are hearing.

95
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,719
Speaker 1: You sound like you're going to back down on this one.

96
00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 2: Oh well, that is in our position. Teachers are being

97
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,200
Speaker 2: really clear about what they want to see in a

98
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 2: settlement and we're calling on the government to come to

99
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 2: the party.

100
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,320
Speaker 1: Liam, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it,

101
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 1: and best of luck with the ra Liam Rutherford nzidy

102
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 1: I lead negotiator. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive,

103
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,800
Speaker 1: listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

104
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,119
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio