1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Kyoda. I'm Murray Jones, and this is a short bonus 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: episode for their history lovers out there. It's not essential 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: to understand the central story we're telling in Heaven's Helpline, 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: but gives a whole lot more context to Mormonism in 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: Alterio New Zealand, which I promise is fascinating. You probably 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: already know that the Mormon faith started in the United 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: States with a fellow named Joseph Smith. He was a 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: farmer's son, born in Vermont in eighteen oh five and 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: raised in rural New York States. The early eighteen hundreds 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: was a time of great religious enthusiasm and revivalism in 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: the Eastern US, so you could take your pick from 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: various flavors of Christianity, as well as strands of what's 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: called folk religion esoteric practices like folk healing, folk medicines, 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: or divination. Anyway, young Joseph wasn't sure which spiritual path 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: to follow, but then he prayed and had some religious 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: visions that answer that question for him. 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: I was answered that I must join none of them, 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:05,919 Speaker 2: for they. 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 3: Were all wrong. 20 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: Follow none of those faiths. Set up your own instead. 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: By the way you're hearing clips, from some of the 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: Mormon Church's educational film strips from the mid nineteen sixties. 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: The way Smith tells it, he was visited first by 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: God and Jesus, then later by an angel called Moroni, 25 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: and one night in eighteen twenty three, Moroni showed Joseph 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: the location of some golden plates that were hidden near 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: his home in New York. He also said that the 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: fullness of the Everlasting Gospel was contained in it. There's 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: a lot more to it, but essentially, those plates, believed 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: to resemble a ringbinder of metallic gold pages rather than 31 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: plates you eat off, contain the text of the writings 32 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: of ancient prophets who had moved from the Middle East 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: in Biblical times around two thousand BC and traveled to 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: the American continent. 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: Thou shalt constructorship, that I may carry thy people across 36 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 3: these waters. 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: So the story goes. Smith translated the plates he claimed 38 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: to have found, though he later returned them to the 39 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: angel Moroni, so we can't check his working, and those 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: translations became what's known as the Book of Mormon, which 41 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: functions as a partner piece to the Old and New 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Testaments of the Regular Bible, and. 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 3: It came to pass that the people waxed strong in 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: wickedness and abomination. 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: It's an epic about two hundred and seventy thousand words 46 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: all up, and is full of astonishing tales. In the middle, 47 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 1: there's the claim that after his crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus 48 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: himself appeared many times in the Americas. Joseph Smith's new 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: religion was a hit and spread quickly. Individual followers were 50 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: called Saints. The faith itself was the Church of Jesus 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: Christ of Latter day Saints, but given the importance of 52 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: this new Book of Mormon, they called themselves Mormons. A 53 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: lot of followers headed west, setting up communities in Ohio, Missouri, 54 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: and Illinois, and right from the start, Joseph Smith had 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: a knack of making himself unpopular with those outside the church. 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: Most controversial was his practice of polygamy, men having multiple wives, 57 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: and if you know one thing about Mormons, it might 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: be that it wasn't the done thing at the time, 59 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: and Smith knew it. He married many of his thirty 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: plus wives in secret, either behind his first wife's back 61 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: or because his brides were oftentimes already married to other men. 62 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: In eighteen forty four, though, things went horribly wrong for 63 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: Joseph Smith. He announced he was running for US president, 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: and though it's unlikely he would have won, it raised 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: his profile enough that opponents set up a newspaper criticizing 66 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: his polygamy and leadership. Smith, who was mayor of his 67 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: town by the Way, ordered the printing pressed to be destroyed. 68 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: Things got out of hand and in the resulting chaos, 69 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: Smith hired a militia for this. He was arrested for 70 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: treason Smith, and while in jail, a mob stormed in 71 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: and murdered Joseph Smith. Smith's successor at the head of 72 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: the Mormon Church was a man called Brigham Young. Young 73 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: was another pretty keen polygamist. He'd married fifty six women 74 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: by the time he died. In eighteen seventy seven. He 75 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: decided there was so much heat on the church, largely 76 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: because of its views on polygamy, that they'd be better 77 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: off outside the United States. So in eighteen forty seven, 78 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: thousands of Mormons joined him in a great relocation. 79 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: He gazed at the vast expanse of desert and malhams 80 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 3: and declared, this is. 81 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 2: The right place. 82 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: The right place was Salt Lake Valley, in Utah, which 83 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: at that time was still part of Mexico and occupied 84 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: by indigenous trial tbes. The very next year, though Mexico 85 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: handed over these territories to the US. It gets complicated 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: around here. Some Mormons fled to other countries, others were jailed. 87 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: The church split into rival factions, and the Mormon leaders 88 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: in Utah were still at odds with the United States, 89 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: which passed anti polygamy laws. A few decades passed and 90 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: Utah Mormons wanted statehood within the United States, but the 91 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: federal government wasn't happy with the way that Mormon settlers 92 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: in Utah ran their communities with almost complete autonomy and 93 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: that everything, even the law, was subservient to their religious beliefs. 94 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety, the leader of the Mormons was inspired 95 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: by God to abandon the practice of polygamy, just as 96 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: the church was being threatened by the government with the 97 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: confiscation of their temples and a clamp down on basic 98 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: civil rights for Mormons. So how does Altero and New 99 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: Zealand fit into this history? It turns out the Sewe 100 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: connection was forged really early on. 101 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: It was an eighteen fifty four that New Zealand first 102 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: bad himI to missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ 103 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: of Latter day Saints. 104 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: At first, the American missionaries focused on converting Europeans, and 105 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: there were some winds, but most of these new converts 106 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: had a habit of heading off to the Promised Land 107 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: of Utah. In the eighteen eighties, though, missionaries turned their 108 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,119 Speaker 1: attention towards Maui and it went incredibly well. In fact, 109 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: Mormonism was being taken up pretty enthusiastically throughout the Pacific 110 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: at this point in New Zealand history. There were loads 111 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: of churches tussling for the souls of Tangata Fenoa, but 112 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: they were mostly from Europe Anglicans, Protestants and Wesleyans from England, 113 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: Presbyterians from Scotland, Catholics from France. But here were these 114 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: people carrying the Book of. 115 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: Mormon, Americans who were just a bit exotic and different 116 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 4: from the British missionaries. 117 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: That's historian Professor Peter Lane. Seriously, if there's anything about 118 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: Altai Roa's religious history that he doesn't know, it's not 119 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: worth knowing. And Professor Linham says Mormon missionaries were especially 120 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: successful in the parts of New Zealand where Mari landloss 121 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: was the most severe. 122 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 4: These Americans had the very opposite experience from normal colonists 123 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 4: who came to New Zealand. 124 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: To some Mari, Mormons were a refreshing alternative to the 125 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: British missionaries, who sometimes seem nothing more than the religious 126 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: wing of the British Crown's land grab. 127 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 4: And so it's quite clear that it's an anti colonial 128 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 4: move by Mauri. They're responding to specific abuses and misuse 129 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 4: of resources by the Anglican Church, and so there's a 130 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 4: very real sense in which it's a protest move. 131 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: These American missionaries, they weren't aligned with the Crown. Also, 132 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: because of the way the Mormon missions worked with visits 133 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: of fixed duration, these guys had no real plans to 134 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: stay in New Zealand. 135 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 4: Well. 136 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: Actually, apart from this, there was one sliding doors moment 137 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty six when things were getting too hot 138 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: for Mormons in Utah that a plan was hatched for 139 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: everyone to flee en mass to New Zealand, where they 140 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: thought the population would be more friendly to their polygamous ways. 141 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: According to a rapport in Wellington's Evening Post, two senior Mormons, 142 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: Elder Doolan and Elder Sorenson even met with the Waikator 143 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: leader and second Mari King, Tarfio, with a proposal to 144 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: buy half a million pounds worth of land in the 145 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: king country. The paper reported that Tafio was quite keen 146 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: on the plan, but the Mormon elders obviously couldn't quite 147 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: sell it back in Utah. So it shall forever remain 148 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: a tantalizing historical what if. But the bigger point remains 149 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: that there was an impressive level of connection between Maori 150 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: and the Mormon missionaries in this country from early on, 151 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: and it wasn't purely about land and anti colonial fis. 152 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 5: Their Book of Mormon was translated here into Tarrio in 153 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 5: eighteen eighty nine. 154 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: This is doctor Robert Joseph. He's a law professor at 155 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: Waikato University and a practicing Mormon. He's tai Nui to 156 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: faraitoa Nati Khanyunu, Rangitane and Naitahu Dtr Joseph says, Mari 157 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: appreciated the efforts the Mormon missionaries made with the language. 158 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 5: They came down to the Waikatzel and they learned to 159 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 5: speak Maori here. 160 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: In general, says doctor Joseph, The Mormon missionaries went further 161 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: than others to meet Marii. Where they were, they preached 162 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: to the people. 163 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 5: They called it a Maori. They lived with the people. 164 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: Other things sat comfortably too. Both Mormon and Maori traditions 165 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: contained similar stories of migrations across great distances under divine guidance. 166 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: Mormons taught mari that they were descendants of key figures 167 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: in the Book of Mormon, and that collectively they were 168 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: one of the Lost tribes of Israel. And yeah, there 169 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: were some uncomfortable beliefs nestled within those stories, like the 170 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: fact that, just like the indigenous Americans, their dark skin 171 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: originated as a curse put upon their ancestors, the Lamanites, 172 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: and that whiter skin was attainable if Mari took up 173 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: a more righteous way of living. For Mari, fuckerpuppa. Your 174 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: line of descent from your ancestors and ultimately the gods 175 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: that preceded them, is central to your cultural and personal identity. 176 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: Mormons are hugely interested in ancestry too. It ties in 177 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: with their practice of baptizing the dead. This is the 178 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: practice not of baptizing corpses, but of a living proxy, 179 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: baptizing a soul of a dead person into the church. 180 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: To do that, you need to know their names, which 181 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: is why the Mormon Church is famous for holding some 182 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: of the most detailed genealogical records on the planet. And 183 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: if you've ever used FamilySearch or ancestry dot Com to 184 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: look up your own family, that's thanks in part to 185 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: Mormon volunteers digitizing historical records. They also perhaps connected on polygamy, 186 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: men taking multiple wives here in Altairoa, Maori had a 187 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: history of being pretty relaxed about plural marriage. And then 188 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: there were the prophecies. According to Mormon scholars, from the 189 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: eighteen thirties three to the eighteen eighties. 190 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 5: A number of Maudi Mataquito prophets a propheside of a 191 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 5: new church coming. It's the church for Maudi. 192 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: One Langatira in the Waira Rapa Paa te Potangaroa of Nati, 193 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: Kahanunu and Raangatane described the tohu or signs that would 194 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: mark this new church. 195 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 5: And he said that the new church will come from 196 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 5: the east where the sun rises. 197 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: Well, Americans do come from the east, while European missionaries 198 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: generally arrived from the west. So check they will travel 199 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: in two's Mormons do that. 200 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 5: Check, They'll teach us in their language. 201 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 4: Check. 202 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 5: And he said they will live with our people, They'll 203 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 5: eat our food and sleep in their buddies. 204 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: Check, check, and check. Whatever the specific reasons, though, the 205 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: fact is Mormonism became really big in Marydom. By eighteen ninety, 206 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: about three thousand mary or one in every twelve, belonged 207 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: to the Mormon Church. At the same time, though, Mormons 208 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: bringing the message to New Zealand cities and to Pakia 209 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: seem to have a tougher time of it. There are 210 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: old newspaper reports from nineteen oh one of Mormon missionaries 211 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: in Dunedin being heckled and chased. 212 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: By hooting crowds of about five hundred people. 213 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: No one was hurt, but the paper does report that 214 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: the mayor of Dunedin. 215 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 5: Appealed to them to behave themselves, whereupon he was rushed 216 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 5: and his high hat knocked off. 217 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: So Dunneden nightlife circa nineteen oh one has anything much 218 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: changed anyway? The thing is, for the longest time the 219 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: New Zealand Mormon Church was strongly Maori, and according to Lyinum, 220 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: this means the church here was really quite different from 221 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: the church back at base in Utah. 222 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 4: The type of Mormonism that developed to New Zealand until 223 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 4: the nineteen forties was in fact a highly antypical Mormonism. 224 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: But then in the nineteen fifties. 225 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 4: Quite deliberately, there was a change of policy. 226 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: From this time on, leaders back in Utah decided the 227 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: worldwide Church needed to be more uniform, more conservative. This 228 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: meant that in New Zealand there'd be less tolerance of 229 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: traditional Maori practices such as open caskets at Tonguey for 230 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: Mormon members, whether Hueta or national meetings in Alta Roa 231 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: used to be held at Morai. That changed the use 232 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: of terreo mari was dialed right back as well. 233 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 5: Yeah, there was those challenges about not being able to 234 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 5: speak Marii in church, which was a real blow to 235 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 5: a lot of our Marti saints. 236 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: To be frank, make no mistake, there was still a 237 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: uniquely Maori character to the church in New Zealand. 238 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 6: Churches became marie and the temple became this pinnacle, this 239 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 6: place in which family, past, prison and future were all 240 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 6: bound together. 241 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: This is doctor Gina Colvin of Nati Perot and Napuhi 242 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: she grew up in a multi generational Mormon family. She's 243 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: a scholar and a public critic of the church, which 244 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: she's only left very recently. 245 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 6: Because of colonization, people kind of went away from their homelands, 246 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 6: so we lost a sense about EEI identification. 247 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: Gina's talking here about the urban drift in the mid 248 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: twentieth century here in Altera Roa, where over a couple 249 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: of decades the vast majority of Mary moved from rural 250 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: areas to cities looking for work. 251 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 6: And then Mormonism came by and said, that's okay because 252 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 6: you're of the tribe of Israel and this is your EWI, 253 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 6: And you know, suddenly there was a oh, I belong 254 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 6: to something. 255 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: Many Mary were able to look past the white supremacist 256 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: subtext in the Book of Mormon and the clearly racist 257 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: rhetoric coming out of the church at the time, like 258 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: the fact you couldn't be a priesthood holder if you 259 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: were black. 260 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 6: And while Mini Mary here liked to say, oh, that 261 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 6: was just a black American thing, the underside of that 262 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 6: story is actually that made a huge impact. This was 263 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 6: the push to whiten the church and to make it 264 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 6: look ib and professional so the suits and entire thing 265 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 6: that never used to be, and it was kind of 266 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 6: an evolution of image. These brown people, we can now 267 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 6: act like white people. 268 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: By the nineteen sixties, over sixty percent of the membership 269 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: of the LDS Church was Mardy. Here's how one church 270 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: leader explained it during a TV interview in nineteen sixty 271 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: eight while standing outside church college. 272 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 5: Why do you have so many Polynesians. 273 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: It has something to do with the fact that in 274 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: the doctrines and the belief of the Mormon Church, we 275 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: have something that attracts a Mari because of the fact 276 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: that we can explain his history to him. Vetter, we 277 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: do teach the islander to speak correct English. We teach 278 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: him industry. A great deal of emphasis is put on 279 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: good citizenship. We teach a young polonies. 280 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: Along with the racist paternalism, there were some other religious 281 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: concepts that well didn't sit easy. Remember the curse of 282 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: the Lamanites I mentioned earlier. This said that darker skinned 283 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: people would get lighter over time if they were faithful 284 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: to the doctrines. 285 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: By being obedient, we will become a fear and delightsome people. 286 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: Here's an interview from nineteen eighty with Church College teacher 287 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: Maui Fang. 288 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: I could be call probably dark that I've married into 289 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 3: a line which is three quarters English, and my children, 290 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: if I can say this, I certainly fair and delight them. 291 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe Mormonism caused a fair bit of internalized racism, 292 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: though to be fair, things got a little better over time. 293 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: The following year nineteen eighty one, the wording in the 294 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: Book of Mormon changed. Instead of talking about followers becoming 295 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: fair or white, it says just pure. Through the nineteen eighties, 296 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: as Maria Cross alter Roa began something of a cultural revival, 297 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: this racist stuff caused some gritted teeth, but in some 298 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: other ways, the American style optimism of the LDS Church 299 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: really did offer something to Mary. For a while it 300 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: was a heyday, this is Gina again. 301 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 6: So that kind of American relationship with Mary Mormonism was 302 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 6: a huge boone in terms of social mobility, the building 303 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 6: of confidence and that swag than Americans have, like you know, 304 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 6: we can do it. So there was this huge possibility 305 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 6: that this partnership between Marii and the elm Is Church 306 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 6: would raise this amazing generation, according to that American spirit 307 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 6: of possibility, to be these enlightened leaders. 308 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: Growing up in the nineteen eighties in the church. 309 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 6: As a working class brown kid, Gina. 310 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: Was super aware of the hypocrisies and inconsistencies around identity 311 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: in the Mormon Church. Gina recalls the time as a 312 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: child when some American mission presidents visited her church. 313 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 6: I think they were in the jewelry business, and the 314 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 6: woman was just dripping with diamonds. You know, you could 315 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 6: see them sparkling as she grabbed the podium, and she 316 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 6: was busy telling us that, you know, we could be 317 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 6: like her, if we just kept to the principles of 318 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 6: the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we could have all of this. 319 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 6: And I just looked at these people who I loved 320 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 6: so deeply, working class park Your families and Mardy families. 321 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 6: I'm thinking, as a nine year old, I'm thinking, this 322 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 6: doesn't seem right. She shouldn't be here sharing that story. 323 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 6: Even at that age, I don't feel very Christian. The white, 324 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 6: rich people from America who're dripping with jewels have almost 325 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 6: no Christian message to share with brown indigenous people. 326 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: You can maybe hear why Gina's got in trouble with 327 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: the church over the years. Anyhow, when members ask themselves, 328 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: am I a Mary Mormon or a Mormon Mary. The 329 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: answer wasn't easy. 330 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 6: What the church wanted for you was to say that 331 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 6: I am a Mary Mormon, and the hierarchy of ideological 332 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 6: or theological frameworks you were supposed to situate the church 333 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 6: there with the greatest authority, and your identity as Marty 334 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 6: was required to be structured or reconciled around that primary 335 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 6: identity as woman. 336 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: But as the Mary Renaissance became stronger during the eighties, 337 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: more began to push back at this idea. Gina tells 338 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: me about another moment at church in her teens that 339 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: she remembers well, a conversation a relief society for women. 340 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 6: My foster mother said to this woman, she said, well, 341 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 6: of course, Darlane, you're Mormon first before your MANI. And 342 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 6: I remember this beautiful, fierce Maori woman rose up and 343 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 6: all of her wheh and her ihi and said, I 344 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 6: am Maori first, and I am Mormon next. And I 345 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 6: thought it was just glorious. 346 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: All those church reforms that started in the nineteen fifties, 347 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: coupled with a return of Mari language, culture, and customs 348 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: in wider society, eventually led to a change in the 349 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: membership of the church here. 350 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 4: While there's the striking demographic decline of and aging of 351 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 4: Maori Mormons. 352 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: This is historian Peter Linham. 353 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 4: Again, there is very, very strikingly the emergence of large 354 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 4: numbers of Samoan and Tongan Mormons, who are now far 355 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 4: and away the most prominent and active members of the church. 356 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: Just under half the membership of the LDS Church here 357 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: now is pacifica people, and that number continues to grow. 358 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: So it's no coincidence that New Zealand's second temple is 359 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: being built in what some refer to as the biggest polonies, 360 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: in city Manaco in the south of Auckland. So there 361 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: you go, Mormon history and Altero one oh one. If 362 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: you've listened to this immediately after episode one, you're now 363 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: extra ready to get on with episode two and rejoin 364 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: the main story of Heaven's Helpline, the six part investigation 365 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: into the Mormon Church in New Zealand.