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Speaker 1: Tributes to flying for Normal Heward, who died yesterday, of course,

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Speaker 1: age fifty five, fighting motor neur own disease. Former All

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Speaker 1: Black Mary all Black, Hurricane Wellington hero. Of course, for

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Speaker 1: most of his international career he was head to head

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Speaker 1: with the Shawn Fitzpatrick for that number two jumper. Shawn

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Speaker 1: is with us from Britain. Shawan morning to.

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Speaker 2: You, Mike.

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Speaker 1: When you think of Norm Hewitt, what do you think of.

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Speaker 2: I'm firstly, I'm very sad. It's been a very sad

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Speaker 2: day and I thoughts with him and his family. But

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Speaker 2: my first thoughts that he was a great All Black,

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Speaker 2: very loyal and Funnily enough, Mike, he got the best

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Speaker 2: out of me because he was hugely competitive, a very

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Speaker 2: good player. And as I said, he got the best

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Speaker 2: out of me, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: How do you handle those scenarios when you know he's

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Speaker 1: after your job and you've got his job, and how

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Speaker 1: does he how did that relationship and vibe work?

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Speaker 2: As I said, I have massive respect him as an

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Speaker 2: All Black. And you know, in the old days when

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Speaker 2: we used to go on two of the Wednesday players

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Speaker 2: are trying to get on the Saturday team and the

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Speaker 2: Saturday teams trying to keep the Wednesday player out. It

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Speaker 2: brings out the best in both of us and Norm.

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Speaker 2: Norm definitely did that. You know. I think back to

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Speaker 2: ninety three, Mike, when we lost that second Test in

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Speaker 2: Wellington and Norm was on fire and I was lucky

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Speaker 2: enough to get another opportunity on the following Saturday. But

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Speaker 2: he was a huge competitor, hugely passionate about the all

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Speaker 2: Black jersey and and that sort of relationship developed from

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Speaker 2: ninety three and then we went on ninety four or

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Speaker 2: ninety five. He went to the World Cup and I

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Speaker 2: think back to that where he started and against Japan,

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Speaker 2: and Laurie May said to me that he wanted me

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Speaker 2: to play, and I said no, I said, it's an

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Speaker 2: opportunity where Norms should start. This is a mark of

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Speaker 2: respect for what he had done for the all Black jersey.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic. What did you make of an I know you followed,

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Speaker 1: but what did you make of his turnaround of life

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Speaker 1: post rugby and what he did for other people?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, huge admiration for what he did. He had some

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Speaker 2: very difficult times and to turn that around and what

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Speaker 2: he gave back was huge. And you know, to be

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Speaker 2: to be saddled with the motor neuron disease, which is

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Speaker 2: just a horrible, horrible disease to have, and you know

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Speaker 2: the way he dealt with that, you know, and you

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Speaker 2: know I was. I was fortunate enough to see his

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Speaker 2: brother when I was down there in April and he

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Speaker 2: told me where Norm was out and it's just you know,

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Speaker 2: just tragic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, without shifting gears to awkwardly the England thing, we've

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Speaker 1: just seen. What a great way to start the season.

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Speaker 1: England were good. I thought England fantastic even they last twice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, both, it's doing a good job. They're they're in

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Speaker 2: good shape. We did we did well to beat them up.

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Speaker 2: You know. It was a good, good test for us.

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Speaker 2: But they are definitely a team that you know on

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Speaker 2: this in this cycle, they'll be hugely competitive in three

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Speaker 2: years four years time and when we heads to Australia

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Speaker 2: for the World Cup. But yeah, they're they're a good outfit.

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Speaker 2: But a good test for us and and be interesting

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Speaker 2: to see what happens in the autumn when they come

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Speaker 2: up when the aublc's come up here to play them

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Speaker 2: in that November test.

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Speaker 1: Exactly good to catch up. I appreciate it. Very much.

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Speaker 1: Shean Fitzpatrick, who with us from from Britain this morning.

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