1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Marking the birth of our nation White Tiny Day Breakfast 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: with Andrew Dikets News Talks. There'd be sometimes of feel. 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: Like a Donna Bard, sometimes a feel welcome on to you, 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: welcome to the program. White Day. We're playing a little 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 2: bit of red hot Chili peppers and under the bridge 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: because the Mayor of Auclands, Wayne Brown, decided to talk 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: about the bridge over the course of the past week. 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: He came out and said we need a second harbor 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: crossing and he said it should be on Meola Reef. 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: So recommendations on Aucland's future plans are due in front 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: of the government soon, so we'll see if Uncle Wayne 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: is right in his belief of a second harbour crossing 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: on Meola Reef. And personally, a Meola Reef crossing seems 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: absolutely bonkers to me because where will all the traffic 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: go and where will all the approaches be. It's nowhere 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: near the current motorway system in any way, shape or form. 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: And to me, whenever this debate rioters the people have 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: aucan drive me crazy because I think the most important 19 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: part of the debate is being missed because it's not 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: about a second crossing, it's about the first crossing, the 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: crossing the city already has. The bridge is over sixty 22 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: years old, it was not built well, it's not up 23 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 2: to scratch and it's going to break. And so I 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: think the real question is can we replace the existing 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: structure in its existing location, because if we don't, the 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: entire motorway system is compromised. And yet in all the debate, 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: we never hear COUI on that. We hear about train 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: tunnels and second crossings, but not about this is how 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: we're going to fix the first crossing. Is this just me? 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: Or are we being deliberately blind to the real problem. 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: It's twenty five. 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: To eight Andrew Dickens. 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: So this was another story that shot me yesterday ended 34 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: out in the news as breaking news. A new court 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: hearing will get underway on Monday for the Australian man 36 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: convicted of the twenty nineteen christ Church terror attacks. He's 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: seeking to overturn his guilty please to fifty one council murder, 38 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: fifty of attended murder and one terrorism charge that the 39 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: appeal argues he was not in a rational state when 40 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: he pleaded guilty, claiming inhumane and torturous prison conditions. Now 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 2: this this will happen five years ago. So Steve Cullen 42 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: is a criminal defense lawyer, and as with us this morning, 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: Steve community. When I first heard this, I thought, why 44 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: is this happening? Because I believe that you had what 45 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: twenty days to lodge an appeal. This is five years later. 46 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: Why is he being allowed to lodge an appeal? 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 3: Well, there must be a valid reason that the Court 48 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: of Appeals permitted him to actually have this heard. But 49 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: there is a principle of finality. Once somebody's entered a 50 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: guilty plea and they have competent, responsible counsel, then it's 51 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: very difficult to have that plea overturned. 52 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: So why do they over Why are they considering it 53 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 2: five years afterwards? You know surely as you say that 54 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: the finality of at all? Is this a political decision? 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: Well, no, we will find out when the hearing commences 56 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: on Monday. It's a bit premature to start speculating why 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 3: they're allowing it to happen when they have allowed it 58 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 3: to happen, and they will all come out of the wash. 59 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 3: He's trying to argue, as I understand that he was 60 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: subject to some sort of inhumane treatment in the prison 61 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 3: system thereby breach in the Bill of Rights. But how 62 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: that somehow would have affected his mental capacity or given 63 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 3: rise to an argument that he was incapable of making 64 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: proper and competent decisions is yet to be seen. It's 65 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: going to be very difficult to argue when he had 66 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: competent and reasonable and very responsible counsel. He's somehow trying 67 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: to vacate that. One speculates that he's really seeking more 68 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: publicity that we will find out very shortly. 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: This is right. This appeal rewards delay and manipulation and 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: plays exactly into his hands, which is just to publicize 71 00:03:58,360 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: his cause. 72 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: Well, one suspects that's the case. Let's wait and see 73 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 3: what unfolds. 74 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: But what about the victims and families who were promised 75 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: finality when he pleaded guilty and they locked him away 76 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: and they thought they'd never have to hear from this 77 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: person again. 78 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: Yes, you can only sympathize with people who were caught 79 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 3: up on that side of the equation. Very difficult situation 80 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 3: for all, But we have to let the wills of 81 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 3: justice cribed on and let it be dealt with properly, 82 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 3: so that hopefully whatever the outcomers will get finality enclosure 83 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: this time. 84 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of answers that could of appeal 85 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: have to come up with. And Steve Cohen and I 86 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: thank you so much because that was the thing that 87 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: got me last night. I'm watching the TV and I'm 88 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: going what there are time delays on this twenty days? 89 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: I believe it is. You've got twenty days to lodge 90 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: an appeal. He's had his time to say I got 91 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: treated rough in jail. He had his time to do that. 92 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: He did not do that. Now suddenly they're saying, okay, 93 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: you can have another crack, and we know exactly what 94 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: he wants to do. He wants to get his name 95 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: out there again, the name that we never mentioned anymore, 96 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: because we now are supposed to want to hear from 97 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: him ever again. I find it extraordinary, don't you? News 98 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: talksp It is twenty one to eight. We were going 99 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: to be talking to Chris Hopkins round about now, but 100 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: of course everything's going late at White Tonguey because lots 101 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: of speech you're fining, and so he can't really join 102 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: us for another ten minutes. We will get to him 103 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: before the end of this hour. Also talk sport with 104 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: de McLachlin and this is News talks. Heb Now, just 105 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: a few, just a few things that came out after 106 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: my editorial that I did just before the News Andrew 107 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: you have viewed the politicians have been disrespectful of Mary 108 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: for the past eighteen months as a misconception of the 109 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: ongoing debate around the principles. Yeah, okay, a few people 110 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 2: are saying that what grief did Maori feel? Well, I 111 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: don't know about you, but i'd did you see the 112 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: hiccoys and do you hear the whole Toytu titility debate? 113 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: And did you see the masses of people getting together 114 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: of marching and complaining and wearing T shirts? Do you 115 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: think that wasn't as a result of some of the 116 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: grief because the debate was allowed to continue, which the 117 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: National Party allowed because this was an act thing, the 118 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: Treaty Principal's debate. National never wanted to support it all 119 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: the way through, but we're more than happy to have 120 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: a bit of a shouting match beforehand, which Mary went, well, 121 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: if you're going to shout about this, we're going to 122 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: shout back at you. So you know, it caused a 123 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: bit of arjibaji I'd have to say, actually, there's a 124 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: certain lack of arjibaji at White Tangy this year, considering 125 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: the year that's been. But there we go. Here's a 126 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: very good point from Jil though. Imagine Andrew, if New Zealanders, 127 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: the setler New Zealanders protested and yelled and shouted at 128 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: the Marlred Queen and or Mildred leaders, for instance, at 129 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 2: the inauguration of the Mari Queen, all hell would break loose. 130 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: And that is true. But the Mari Queen was never 131 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: actually telling us, telling the settler population exactly how you know, 132 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: and they were supposed to behave and what they're supposed 133 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: to do and what their rights were underneath the Treaty 134 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 2: of White Tangy, So they weren't quite as controversial I 135 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: think as a treaty principal's debate, which by the way, 136 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 2: is gone if National Party is back in power, it's gone. 137 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: We had the good old debate about it, and now 138 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: we move on. And Gay reckons that Wayne Brown is 139 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: talking about the Meola reef crossing to distract us from 140 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: his latest rate rises. Surprise, surprise. Fair to say, I 141 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: have to say that seemed to be just a headline 142 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: looking for some publicity, didn't it it is at nineteen 143 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: minutes to eight News TALKSB. 144 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: For more from the mic asking breakfast, listen live to 145 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: News Talks It B from six am weekdays, or follow 146 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.