1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: Now a major study. Staying on the subject of rugby, 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: a major study has found that playing high level rugby 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: actually does increase the likelihood of developing Alzheimer's. Auckland University 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: researchers compared players who'd played at high level to men 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: who'd never played at high level and found a twenty 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: five percent increased risk. Steve Lancaster is New Zealand Rugby's 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: general manager of Community Rugby Hay Steve Hi, Heather, listen, 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: I look at this. I think it's pretty clear rugby 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: causes Alzheimer's. If to many, Knox, what do you say? 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: I think you have to be really careful in making 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: a statement like that, because the research that's just been 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: published actually makes it very clear that it doesn't establish causation, 13 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 2: but it does establish that there is a correlation between 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: participation in high level rugby amongst men that played in 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: the game between nineteen fifty and two thousand and an 16 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: increased incidence of some neurodegenerative diseases. But the distinction between 17 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 2: an association and causation is an important one. 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: Well, what else could it be? 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: Then? 20 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: If it's just a correlation, what's causing it? 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing that we need to better understand now. 22 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: But there are a range of other factors that are 23 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: at play within that cohort, and again causation can't be 24 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: pinned twenty one of them without further research. But you know, 25 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: we know that lifestyles and social behaviors over that period 26 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: of time there was less awareness around a whole lot 27 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: of things, and so people did a whole lot of 28 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: things that had potential impacts. 29 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: So do you think, like, possibly you're a rugby player, 30 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: you go back to the sheds, you get really boozed, 31 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: that might be the cause. 32 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: Again, we don't want to speculate on what causes any 33 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 2: of these things, but you know, attitudes and behaviors around 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: alcohol consumption in New Zealand in that period of time 35 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: we're certainly very different to what they are today. So 36 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: that's one example. 37 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah maybe, But I mean I would argue that between 38 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: what was the period that this was done and was 39 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: it something like nineteen sixty to two thousand, was it? 40 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 41 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say most most people with most key 42 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: we men, whether they played rugby or not, would have 43 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: been big boozers back in that day, don't you think? 44 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: Yep? 45 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: Well, again, look Okay, we're kind of got I think, right, 46 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: you guys can't. I mean, I understand legally you guys 47 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: can't say it because then you open yourself to lawsuit. 48 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: But it's pretty clear to the average human what's going 49 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: on here. What I want to know from you is 50 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: do you need right taking into account could be the cause? 51 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: Do you need to increase your stand down periods after 52 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: a suspected or an actual concussion? 53 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: Well, we certainly need to do more around protecting players 54 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 2: from the risks of head injury and head impacts, and 55 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: so there's a lot of science actually that that is 56 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: wrapped around stand down periods for concussion. So you know, 57 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: in the community game we have a twenty one day 58 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 2: stand down for players that suffer a concussion or a 59 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: suspected concussion through the Blue Card innership, and in the 60 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: professional game that there's a whole raft of scientific measures 61 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: that are used around based. 62 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: What you in your In the professional game, it's what 63 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: twelve days? Is it? 64 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's again I don't want to I don't want 65 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: to make a misty here in terms of the number 66 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: of days, but it's very scientifically evaluated through. 67 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: I'm asking because boxing is thirty at the minimum, Steve like, 68 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: sometimes they make those guys stand down for six months. 69 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Six months compared to twelve days in rugby, does make 70 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: the twelve days look very small. 71 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, well again and again, my space is the community game, 72 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: not the professional game, So I don't want to speak 73 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: too extensively on that in detail, but I know that 74 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: in the professional game, we take a very scientific and 75 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: individualized approach, right, so players will stand down for as 76 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: long as necessary for them to be completely symptom free 77 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: before they'll take the fielder game. We put a lot 78 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 2: more resource in place around those players at the professional 79 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: level than we can at community, where we have to 80 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 2: have standardized protocols. 81 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: What do you reckon you need to do to keep 82 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: people's head safe? 83 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: Well, we're already doing a lot of things right, and 84 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: so this is why we welcome this research and why 85 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: we've actually been invested in and contributed to it, is 86 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: that we just need to understand better what's going on here, 87 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: and that will enable us to make better decisions and 88 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: more informed decisions about how we keep people safe playing 89 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: the game. So since two thousands, since this research cohort, 90 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: there's been a range of initiatives being put in place. 91 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: We've made modifications to tackle height and tackle laws. We've 92 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: introduced a whole lot of initiatives in the professional game 93 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: around things like instrumental mouth guards and head injury assessment 94 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: protocols and systems. So we're actively pursuing everything that we 95 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: can to ensure the game is as safe as possible, 96 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: and we will continue to evolve in that space. 97 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: Now, listen, Steve, I'm not sure if you're the right 98 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: guy to ask this question of, but I want to 99 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: know why ends are forced Shane Curry Shane Christy rather 100 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: to keep his report a secret, do you know? 101 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: No, Look, I mean that report's confidential. I'm not across 102 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: the detail of it because it's not my part of 103 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: the business. But what I do know is that all 104 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: of the parties at the outset of that report agreed 105 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: to it being a confidential report so that it could 106 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: enable everyone that participated to participate openly and transparently so 107 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 2: that we can get better and make improvements. So that 108 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: was a condition at the outset of the report. 109 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: So he agreed before the report happened, he agreed that 110 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: if it was done, he would not release it. 111 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: I understand, and again I'm not across the detail. It's 112 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: not my part of the business, so I don't want 113 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: to go too far on. 114 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: That, Okay, Steve, thanks very much, appreciate it. Steve Lancaster, 115 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: General Manager Community Rugby. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, 116 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 117 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.