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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine

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Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB.

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Speaker 2: Taken Down Inside the Boundary by Tim Salvey, and that

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Speaker 2: completes one of the most remarkable achievements in New Zealand

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Speaker 2: Test batch cricket history. They have beaten India in India

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Speaker 2: in a series. This is no fluke.

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Speaker 3: They have outplayed a very good team and they've done

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Speaker 3: it in style.

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Speaker 4: This is the first time they've ever beaten India in India.

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Speaker 3: And for India on the other side of the ledger,

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Speaker 3: it's their first home defeat since twenty twelve. How about

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Speaker 3: Mitchell Satner, whose Test career history said he couldn't do this.

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Speaker 4: He has incredible and historic achievement for the black Caps,

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Speaker 4: clinching a Test cricket series win in India for the

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Speaker 4: first time. The black Caps wrapping up a one hundred

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Speaker 4: and thirteen run victory in Test two in poone, India

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Speaker 4: bolt out for two hundred forty five chasing three hundred

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Speaker 4: and fifty nine. Mitchell Santner again the lead act for

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Speaker 4: the black Caps six second innings wickets thirteen for the

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Speaker 4: match in forty seven innings. Prior to this Test Satne

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Speaker 4: had never taken four wickets in an innings. Now he

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Speaker 4: has two fives in one of New Zealand's greatest wins,

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Speaker 4: and nearly twenty percent of his Test wickets have come

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Speaker 4: in this one match. India before this had won eighteen

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Speaker 4: consecutive home Test series, their previous series defeat against England

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Speaker 4: in twenty twelve. Multi award winning sports journalist, editor of

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Speaker 4: the Bounce subscription sports newsletter, co host of the BYC podcast,

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Speaker 4: Dylan Cleaver is with us, Dylan, how do we even

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Speaker 4: start trying to explain what on earth has happened here?

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Speaker 5: Four thousand, three hundred and something days. It's been since

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Speaker 5: Avister Cook's very good England team feat India in India

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Speaker 5: bick in twenty twelve. So that's as good as indication

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Speaker 5: as you're going to get about what in a phenomenal achievement,

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Speaker 5: almost incomprehensible achievement, this black cap size just pulled off.

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Speaker 4: Let's go straight to Mitchell Santner. Why was he a

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Speaker 4: bowler who has never run through a team with a

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Speaker 4: red ball ever? Really? Why was he so effective?

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Speaker 5: That's a really good question. I can only guess at

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Speaker 5: the answer, but I think it was just the perfect

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Speaker 5: pace for that wicket. I think the other spinners, apart

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Speaker 5: from Washington Sunda, who almost said as good a game

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Speaker 5: as Litter Centner, they tend to be darting flat spinners.

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Speaker 5: And on that wicket which Grippton turned, you could kind

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Speaker 5: of a gripton turned if you bowled a little bit slower.

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Speaker 5: And Santa was the only one that was really giving

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Speaker 5: it loop. Like if you told me before a Test

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Speaker 5: that New Zealand left arm spinner was going to rip

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Speaker 5: through India and when the Test for their country, I

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Speaker 5: would have gone ajs Ptel first that I might have

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Speaker 5: even gone rich and revenge a second, because you know,

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Speaker 5: if it was up to me, I probably wouldn't even

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Speaker 5: picked more full eye. So yeah, I think the wicket

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Speaker 5: was just tailor made for him. And if you predicted

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Speaker 5: it beforehand in you're a genius.

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Speaker 4: Yeah No, well I don't. All I know for a

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Speaker 4: fact nobody did. Nobody. If you could bet on Mitchell

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Speaker 4: Center taking thirteen wickets in a Test match, any Test match,

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Speaker 4: you just wouldn't take the bet. I actually can't believe

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Speaker 4: I'm asking this, but Ajs Pattel got ten for and

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Speaker 4: didn't get picked in the next test. Do you think

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Speaker 4: Mitchell sent will play the home Test against England.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, again, I'm not sure. Would I do it? Probably not,

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Speaker 5: although I do like the idea that you go with

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Speaker 5: the hot hand, so maybe this is you know, someone

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Speaker 5: described it a little bit earlier as Sanders gave braceful

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Speaker 5: moment and maybe that's a good analogy. AT's see, I

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Speaker 5: think you do go with the hot hand. I think

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Speaker 5: he's probably more likely to play because of the other

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Speaker 5: things he offers than an agents to tell the New

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Speaker 5: Zealand conditions, for example, So maybe maybe he's earned the right.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, again, it's just very hard to wrap your

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Speaker 5: head around what's happened over those previous three days as

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Speaker 5: to where we're now talking about Mitchell sand There is

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Speaker 5: the key figure in this amazing test. There is victory.

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Speaker 4: Did India bat poorly in this Test match?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? They did? They better poorly in this test? They

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Speaker 5: mean you could maybe right off the first Test, although

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Speaker 5: New Zealand played fantastically well. I don't want to put

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Speaker 5: that first Test victory in Bengalu down to a flute

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Speaker 5: or anything, because it wasn't. But India were undone by

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Speaker 5: conditions on the first morning there where they misread it

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Speaker 5: and New Zealand at every edge did everything perfectly in

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Speaker 5: this Test. They just looked a little bit lost at

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Speaker 5: times hyper aggressive in that second innings and it worked

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Speaker 5: for a little while and there was potential for them

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Speaker 5: maybe to rest the initiative for New Zeerum when particularly

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Speaker 5: when joy'swell and Gil were going very well. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure that they backed their own skills against

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Speaker 5: Mitchell Sandler. And again there was something really strange about

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Speaker 5: saying that sentence out.

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Speaker 4: Loud in a low scoring Test match. How crucial was

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Speaker 4: Tom Latham's eighty six and New Zealand's second innings.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because Tom Latham had

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Speaker 5: been a player that was beginning to really frustrate me,

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Speaker 5: because we know what a good player he is, and

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Speaker 5: he had become almost a master of these occasional cameos

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Speaker 5: and i mean still without a sex and still got

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Speaker 5: an amazing amount of Test andy for someone of his ability,

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Speaker 5: without one hundred. But people who know cricket will know

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Speaker 5: that that eighty six on that wicket in that situation

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Speaker 5: was probably worth a double ton meganst another team in

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Speaker 5: home conditions it was so good, he bettered so well. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it was that. I guess the to user wore old cliche.

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Speaker 5: It was the definition of the captain's knock.

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Speaker 4: Have we. I mean, he's he's taken over the captaincy

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Speaker 4: and he's done something that no captain before him has

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Speaker 4: has done. He's I mean, with won four tests over there.

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Speaker 4: Now he's been in charge for two of them. But

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Speaker 4: did he has he stamped his captaincy on this team

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Speaker 4: or not?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? I think he probably has. And again that's the

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Speaker 5: ability to make people like me look very silly because

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Speaker 5: I really questioned whether he was the right man. I

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Speaker 5: think they had to remove the captaincy from the Southeast

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Speaker 5: because I guess how his own form was making it untenable.

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Speaker 5: But I really questioned why you had hand the captaincy

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Speaker 5: from one guy who's place in the team had to

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Speaker 5: be in up with his personal contributions to another guy

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Speaker 5: whose personal contributions have been pretty watery and pretty weak

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Speaker 5: over the past year at least. But yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 5: perhaps he is the perfect personality to meld that team

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Speaker 5: as they go through this what let's face it has

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Speaker 5: been a relatively awkward transition so far from that golden

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Speaker 5: generation of players who won the World tiesst Championship and

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Speaker 5: has got New Zealand to number one in the world,

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Speaker 5: to this new I guess, this new phase of New

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Speaker 5: Zealand cricket, and we're not quite sure how that's going

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Speaker 5: to look yet, but I guess the signs are looking.

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Speaker 4: Up and that you land on such an interesting point, Dylan,

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Speaker 4: because I look at this team and most of them

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Speaker 4: are still north of thirty, right, So that transition has

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Speaker 4: still got quite a way to go, hasn't it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it has, and we're not sure about the talent

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Speaker 5: levels below. Ratch and Revenger has been an absolute revelation.

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Speaker 5: Glenn Phillips does Glenn Phillips things and looks exciting, but yeah,

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Speaker 5: there's still I mean, Kane Williamson's obviously creaking. Tim Southy's creaking.

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Speaker 5: You know, Tom Layton's form had been I think it

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Speaker 5: was warranted to look really closely at that and wonder

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Speaker 5: whether he was ever going to be the same. Devin Conway,

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Speaker 5: who's north of thirty is again he's sort of found

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Speaker 5: some for now, but he doesn't look the same Parry

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Speaker 5: he was a couple of years ago. So there's still

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Speaker 5: questions to be asked. Let's black Caps team, and we

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Speaker 5: need to keep asking them. But let's not take anything

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Speaker 5: away from this particular moment you mentioned Devin Conway.

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Speaker 4: There is everything fifty and not a small sample size,

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Speaker 4: just the fore warnings, but a couple of half centuries

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Speaker 4: over here. Can we stop worrying about Devin Conway now

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Speaker 4: or are you still a bit concerned that he's not

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Speaker 4: quite the player he was?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, that's an interesting point when it comes to Crooked.

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Speaker 5: I sometimes tend to be a little bit of a

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Speaker 5: black hat thinker and look at the problems. And Devin

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Speaker 5: has done very well on this tour and made some

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Speaker 5: really vital contributions. But there's still things that I look

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Speaker 5: at him when he's at the crease and think his

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Speaker 5: game is just a little bit messed up. He's a

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Speaker 5: player that's really confusing me. At the moment we're in

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Speaker 5: the space of two balls. He can go from looking

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Speaker 5: like just an absolute world class left ended opening bat

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Speaker 5: to the next delivery, the one that's sort of angling

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Speaker 5: in at them, looking a little bit like a club player.

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Speaker 5: But I can't insult his mental application, and he clearly

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Speaker 5: once runs very badly and he's almost willed himself to

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Speaker 5: runs on this tour and I think that goes a

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Speaker 5: long way.

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Speaker 4: All right, let's circle back to this series win. You've

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Speaker 4: watched a lot of cricket, as have I. Dylan. Can

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Speaker 4: you put this into context for us? How significant a

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Speaker 4: series win is this for New Zealand.

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Speaker 5: I think it's the best. I really do.

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Speaker 6: Like people off in benchmark the series against Australia in

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Speaker 6: Australia in eighty five, the Hadley series, I think if yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean we often do that through rose tints and

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Speaker 6: while wanting to ruin in Australia.

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Speaker 5: Don't give me wrong, it's brilliant. You look at that

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Speaker 5: Australian team and it's not a peak Australian team by

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Speaker 5: any streets of the imagination. You look at this Indian

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Speaker 5: team and you've got Rowert Shama, You've got you know,

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Speaker 5: very Coli the King, You've got Jadasia, you've got Ashwin,

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Speaker 5: you've got some of the spectacular young talent in the world.

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Speaker 5: And Gil and Jay's well, that's a phenomenally good Indian

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Speaker 5: team that they have just taken apart to know all

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Speaker 5: the series that they're going to a dead rubber in Mumbai.

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Speaker 5: It's almost impossible to wrap your head around. So you know,

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Speaker 5: maybe I'm using shocking recency bias there, but I honestly do.

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Speaker 5: I think still when I look at it in the

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Speaker 5: cold light a day, I will come to the same

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Speaker 5: conclusion that this is as good as it gets.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Dylan, I agree, I have to agree. Thanks for

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Speaker 4: taking our call, mat Dylan Cleaver. You can read him.

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Speaker 4: His subscription newsletter is excellent. It's called The Bounce. Just

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Speaker 4: search the Bounce Dylling Cleaver. You'll find out more about it.

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Speaker 4: But your turn now. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

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Speaker 4: Let us celebrate this win for starters, But can you

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Speaker 4: put it into context? How big is this? I'm like Dylan,

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Speaker 4: I've always used that nineteen eighty five series against Australia

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Speaker 4: as the benchmark. But this is just so utterly historic

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Speaker 4: and so completely rare, so totally out of the blue.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you've heard some of these numbers. Since the

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Speaker 4: start of twenty thirteen, India have played fifty three Test

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Speaker 4: matches at home. They've won forty two of them, sixteen

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Speaker 4: of the hostpine innings and only lost four of the

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Speaker 4: twenty three of the sorry four of the fifty three,

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Speaker 4: and two of those were to us in the last fortnight.

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Speaker 4: The only sides to win series in India since two thousand,

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Speaker 4: South Africa in two thousand, Australia and four England into

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Speaker 4: twenty twelve are now us. Some of the greatest teams

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Speaker 4: in history couldn't win in India. Steve War's Australians never

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Speaker 4: won there. Graham Smith's Protea has never won their viv

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Speaker 4: Richard's West Indies never won a series in India. We've

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Speaker 4: been touring there for seventy years, seven oh seventy years

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Speaker 4: and have won just four Test matches nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty eight and these two. So is this actually

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Speaker 4: bigger than winning the World Test Championship? Is this the

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Speaker 4: cricketing everest winning a series in the hardest place there

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Speaker 4: is to do that? And just before we go to

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Speaker 4: the lines, Mitchell Santner Mitchell Santna thirteen for one hundred

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Speaker 4: and fifty seven, third best figures ever in Test matches

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Speaker 4: for New Zealand, third best Test figures ever by anybody

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Speaker 4: on Indian soil. Mitchell Santner has taken the same number

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Speaker 4: of Test wickets in the last two days, as he

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Speaker 4: took in ten test matches across three years between October

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen and November twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: I could go on for more from Weekend Sport with

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Speaker 1: Jason Fine. Listen live to News Talk set B weekends

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Speaker 1: from midday, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio