1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,973 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B. 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:19,253 --> 00:00:22,333 Speaker 2: Straight down the middle of Drum Dickey scud. 4 00:00:23,813 --> 00:00:32,773 Speaker 1: Try get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby 5 00:00:32,853 --> 00:00:36,453 Speaker 1: Direct with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier, powered by News 6 00:00:36,533 --> 00:00:37,053 Speaker 1: Talks ed B. 7 00:00:37,493 --> 00:00:41,773 Speaker 3: Welcome in to Rugby Directs, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating 8 00:00:41,893 --> 00:00:45,173 Speaker 3: you and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith 9 00:00:45,253 --> 00:00:49,573 Speaker 3: with me Liam Napier, back from Argentina and ready to 10 00:00:49,653 --> 00:00:53,333 Speaker 3: go for this huge week of test rugby. We've had 11 00:00:53,373 --> 00:00:56,013 Speaker 3: it marked on the calendar since the schedule was announced. Liam, 12 00:00:56,453 --> 00:00:58,893 Speaker 3: and finally Canterbury get this shield charge. 13 00:01:01,133 --> 00:01:02,653 Speaker 4: I should have known you to throw that down there. 14 00:01:04,373 --> 00:01:07,613 Speaker 2: Four oh five Saturday. The shield is coming to its 15 00:01:07,733 --> 00:01:09,733 Speaker 2: rightful up the stag. 16 00:01:09,853 --> 00:01:13,613 Speaker 3: Dave Dobbin out Welcome home is blasting around the cannery 17 00:01:13,653 --> 00:01:16,373 Speaker 3: once that shield comes to the mainland once again. 18 00:01:16,533 --> 00:01:19,853 Speaker 5: Look, I think it's fair to say that everyone is 19 00:01:19,893 --> 00:01:21,533 Speaker 5: an honorary stag for the weekend. 20 00:01:22,493 --> 00:01:24,053 Speaker 3: Don't know about that, but we will get onto that 21 00:01:24,093 --> 00:01:26,653 Speaker 3: bit later on in the podcast. Of course, our focus 22 00:01:26,853 --> 00:01:30,133 Speaker 3: is the All Blacks and South Africa. Seven oh five Saturday, 23 00:01:30,213 --> 00:01:32,773 Speaker 3: night and in all seriousness, this has been a game 24 00:01:33,213 --> 00:01:35,573 Speaker 3: that has been in the calendar ever since the schedule 25 00:01:35,653 --> 00:01:38,413 Speaker 3: was announced. Eden Park record on the line from the 26 00:01:38,453 --> 00:01:41,533 Speaker 3: All Blacks and you know it's just days away now, 27 00:01:41,813 --> 00:01:45,093 Speaker 3: how are your feelings in terms of this contest as 28 00:01:45,173 --> 00:01:46,493 Speaker 3: we record this five days out? 29 00:01:47,653 --> 00:01:51,333 Speaker 5: Well, you and I are positively fizzed. Elliott and I 30 00:01:51,453 --> 00:01:57,613 Speaker 5: think this match will grip New Zealand like outside of 31 00:01:57,653 --> 00:02:00,173 Speaker 5: a World Cup Final, like nothing probably since a game 32 00:02:00,213 --> 00:02:02,973 Speaker 5: on New Zealand Shows since twenty eleven. It really is 33 00:02:03,133 --> 00:02:06,573 Speaker 5: that big of an occasion. It's you know, fifty test 34 00:02:06,693 --> 00:02:10,893 Speaker 5: undefeated at Eden Park thirty four years there the World 35 00:02:10,933 --> 00:02:14,533 Speaker 5: Cup Final rematch one v two in the Worlds. The 36 00:02:14,573 --> 00:02:16,693 Speaker 5: Springboks looking to go five in a row against the 37 00:02:16,693 --> 00:02:20,053 Speaker 5: All Blacks, which is quite staggering in itself Artist Severe's 38 00:02:20,133 --> 00:02:22,973 Speaker 5: hundredth The Springboks haven't won at Eden Park since nineteen 39 00:02:23,053 --> 00:02:24,293 Speaker 5: thirty seven, so. 40 00:02:24,693 --> 00:02:25,733 Speaker 4: You know, what more do you want? 41 00:02:25,773 --> 00:02:29,653 Speaker 5: The All Blacks backs press to the wall following a loss. 42 00:02:29,973 --> 00:02:32,893 Speaker 5: Spring Box not at their best, but everything about the 43 00:02:33,053 --> 00:02:38,653 Speaker 5: year is targeted around this game. And while rugby fans 44 00:02:38,733 --> 00:02:42,853 Speaker 5: would naturally tune into this game, casual fans non rugby 45 00:02:42,893 --> 00:02:47,333 Speaker 5: supporters will be tuning in so massive occasion and how 46 00:02:47,413 --> 00:02:48,653 Speaker 5: could you not be excited. 47 00:02:48,773 --> 00:02:50,293 Speaker 3: Yeah, you get the sense that this is a test 48 00:02:50,373 --> 00:02:53,133 Speaker 3: week that we haven't had for in New Zealand, as 49 00:02:53,173 --> 00:02:56,613 Speaker 3: you say, for yeah, maybe that third week of the 50 00:02:56,693 --> 00:02:59,333 Speaker 3: line series back in twenty seventeen. But it does feel 51 00:02:59,413 --> 00:03:01,693 Speaker 3: like a World Cup final. Two teams going ahead to 52 00:03:01,773 --> 00:03:04,053 Speaker 3: hear it, it's one v two in the world. But 53 00:03:04,133 --> 00:03:06,573 Speaker 3: from an All Blacks perspective, there are questions around this 54 00:03:06,693 --> 00:03:10,173 Speaker 3: All Blacks team and their status as world number one, 55 00:03:10,173 --> 00:03:12,053 Speaker 3: because it doesn't quite feel like, especially on the back 56 00:03:12,053 --> 00:03:14,973 Speaker 3: of that performance in Buenos Aida, is that they deserve 57 00:03:15,053 --> 00:03:15,773 Speaker 3: to be sitting there. 58 00:03:15,893 --> 00:03:18,893 Speaker 2: So the All Blacks go in? Do they go in 59 00:03:18,933 --> 00:03:20,773 Speaker 2: as favorites? Do you think liam for this game. 60 00:03:20,973 --> 00:03:23,693 Speaker 5: Although actually quite hot favorites for the book is I 61 00:03:23,733 --> 00:03:26,613 Speaker 5: think the Box are at two forty two fifty, which 62 00:03:26,693 --> 00:03:30,893 Speaker 5: is quite staggering. Really, I would have them pretty neck 63 00:03:30,973 --> 00:03:33,333 Speaker 5: and neck, maybe the All Blacks favorites given to the 64 00:03:33,413 --> 00:03:37,333 Speaker 5: end park record, given they're on home soil. But you 65 00:03:37,453 --> 00:03:40,653 Speaker 5: look at that All Black squad and just the injuries 66 00:03:40,853 --> 00:03:43,733 Speaker 5: at half back and the questions around the wings do 67 00:03:43,893 --> 00:03:46,453 Speaker 5: make you a bit nervous, but on the other side 68 00:03:46,493 --> 00:03:48,813 Speaker 5: of the coin. While certainly our focus and much of 69 00:03:48,853 --> 00:03:51,453 Speaker 5: New Zealand's focus is on the All Blacks, the Springboks 70 00:03:51,453 --> 00:03:53,733 Speaker 5: have been well below their best this year as well. 71 00:03:53,893 --> 00:03:59,293 Speaker 5: They were upset by the Wallabies at Alice Park and 72 00:04:00,373 --> 00:04:02,413 Speaker 5: very much went back to type the following week and 73 00:04:02,933 --> 00:04:05,853 Speaker 5: scraped out of victory to go one on one with 74 00:04:05,973 --> 00:04:10,533 Speaker 5: the Wallabies at home. So they have question marks over 75 00:04:10,573 --> 00:04:13,333 Speaker 5: them as well. But it does sort of feel like 76 00:04:13,533 --> 00:04:17,813 Speaker 5: form is almost irrelevant in a match like this. 77 00:04:18,893 --> 00:04:19,413 Speaker 4: What do you reckon? 78 00:04:19,693 --> 00:04:20,173 Speaker 2: I think it is. 79 00:04:20,493 --> 00:04:23,293 Speaker 3: It feels like doesn't matter what's gone on in the 80 00:04:23,693 --> 00:04:27,333 Speaker 3: three five Tests that these teams have played so far 81 00:04:27,573 --> 00:04:29,093 Speaker 3: this year. That's all going to go out the window. 82 00:04:29,093 --> 00:04:30,453 Speaker 3: And it's a cliche, but it will go out the 83 00:04:30,493 --> 00:04:32,373 Speaker 3: window at seven oh five on Saturday night. It won't 84 00:04:32,413 --> 00:04:35,013 Speaker 3: matter two weeks ago that the All Blacks lost in Argentina. 85 00:04:35,093 --> 00:04:37,453 Speaker 3: It won't matter three weeks ago that the box are 86 00:04:37,533 --> 00:04:40,653 Speaker 3: upset by Australia. This will be All Blacks in South 87 00:04:40,693 --> 00:04:44,413 Speaker 3: Africa as it has always been right through their storied history, 88 00:04:44,693 --> 00:04:47,493 Speaker 3: a Test match where to be honest, on the surface 89 00:04:47,533 --> 00:04:48,893 Speaker 3: of I don't think there'll be much in it comes 90 00:04:48,933 --> 00:04:52,333 Speaker 3: Saturday and up whoever ends up winning. I think that's 91 00:04:52,613 --> 00:04:55,973 Speaker 3: the nature of the rivalry and sometimes that supersedes the 92 00:04:56,133 --> 00:04:58,653 Speaker 3: form that teams go into it prior to it. I 93 00:04:58,733 --> 00:05:01,453 Speaker 3: think this is where these two seams sit and have 94 00:05:01,573 --> 00:05:02,933 Speaker 3: always sat when they face each other. 95 00:05:03,133 --> 00:05:06,253 Speaker 5: That's right, and it is very much that rivalry, isn't it. 96 00:05:06,293 --> 00:05:13,893 Speaker 5: It's the storied history, the respect the success of the 97 00:05:14,093 --> 00:05:18,373 Speaker 5: two dominant teams within world rugby as far back as 98 00:05:18,453 --> 00:05:24,693 Speaker 5: you can remember. So that's transformed and progressed into the 99 00:05:24,813 --> 00:05:28,933 Speaker 5: modern age. But it's an interesting backdrop that we find 100 00:05:28,973 --> 00:05:31,853 Speaker 5: ourselves in because the Springboks have had the All Blacks 101 00:05:31,933 --> 00:05:35,253 Speaker 5: number and you can go back to last year and 102 00:05:35,333 --> 00:05:38,133 Speaker 5: look at the All Blacks out playing the spring Box 103 00:05:38,213 --> 00:05:41,173 Speaker 5: in South Africa for fifteen minutes only to let it 104 00:05:41,253 --> 00:05:42,213 Speaker 5: slip and fade away. 105 00:05:43,573 --> 00:05:44,973 Speaker 4: And then the World Cup final. 106 00:05:45,173 --> 00:05:47,453 Speaker 5: We could argue the All Blacks could have order should 107 00:05:47,453 --> 00:05:51,533 Speaker 5: have won that game, but they didn't. So results matter 108 00:05:52,053 --> 00:05:55,933 Speaker 5: and South Africa will certainly bring that confidence in because 109 00:05:56,653 --> 00:06:00,733 Speaker 5: no matter how you perform, no matter what decisions or 110 00:06:01,053 --> 00:06:04,013 Speaker 5: moments and matches you can highlight the spring Box have 111 00:06:04,093 --> 00:06:05,653 Speaker 5: won the last four and. 112 00:06:07,213 --> 00:06:09,573 Speaker 4: You know they have pedigree. 113 00:06:09,733 --> 00:06:14,653 Speaker 5: In recent times of winning matches of real significance, and 114 00:06:14,773 --> 00:06:18,253 Speaker 5: that does matter when all eyes are on, when the 115 00:06:18,373 --> 00:06:22,533 Speaker 5: pressure tells when you need clutch moments, so that big 116 00:06:22,613 --> 00:06:25,893 Speaker 5: game temperament is stacked in their favor. 117 00:06:26,013 --> 00:06:28,173 Speaker 3: And that's what we probably haven't seen yet from this 118 00:06:28,373 --> 00:06:30,853 Speaker 3: All Blacks era under Scott Robertson. I mean, they've had 119 00:06:30,893 --> 00:06:33,733 Speaker 3: some good wins. The Irish win last year, the England 120 00:06:33,773 --> 00:06:37,493 Speaker 3: win at Twickenham, both very very good wins. But there's 121 00:06:37,493 --> 00:06:39,453 Speaker 3: a legitimate argument you can make it they should have 122 00:06:39,533 --> 00:06:41,893 Speaker 3: left South Africa one win, one lost last year maybe 123 00:06:41,933 --> 00:06:44,653 Speaker 3: even if you're being generous, should have won potentially both 124 00:06:44,693 --> 00:06:47,853 Speaker 3: of those games given where they sat in both of them. 125 00:06:47,933 --> 00:06:51,333 Speaker 3: So it's about finishing and what we've seen from the 126 00:06:51,373 --> 00:06:54,613 Speaker 3: All Blacks is they've just had moments in games where 127 00:06:55,293 --> 00:06:57,853 Speaker 3: they've switched off and gone out of games. And last 128 00:06:57,933 --> 00:07:00,413 Speaker 3: year it was the last twenty minutes where they didn't 129 00:07:00,413 --> 00:07:03,173 Speaker 3: score a point for weeks on end. This year it 130 00:07:03,213 --> 00:07:05,733 Speaker 3: seems to be minutes forty to sixty where they go 131 00:07:05,933 --> 00:07:09,293 Speaker 3: cold and struggling to get back in the contest. So 132 00:07:10,253 --> 00:07:13,133 Speaker 3: they've got to deliver an eighty minute performance and nothing 133 00:07:13,213 --> 00:07:15,533 Speaker 3: less than that is going to do come Saturday night. 134 00:07:16,213 --> 00:07:22,173 Speaker 5: That's right, and that patchy elements has been evident largely 135 00:07:22,293 --> 00:07:26,493 Speaker 5: throughout Scott Robinson's tenure. You mentioned the victory in Dublin, 136 00:07:26,493 --> 00:07:30,373 Speaker 5: which is the standout achievement, but the French game in 137 00:07:30,453 --> 00:07:32,853 Speaker 5: Paris they were dominant throughout and then let it slip 138 00:07:32,893 --> 00:07:35,373 Speaker 5: in the second half. This year there was the one 139 00:07:35,453 --> 00:07:39,693 Speaker 5: performance against the very second string French team, the worst 140 00:07:39,893 --> 00:07:42,373 Speaker 5: side that they put out in their three match series 141 00:07:42,453 --> 00:07:46,893 Speaker 5: in Wellington. But even in Argentina, dominant first half in 142 00:07:46,973 --> 00:07:51,253 Speaker 5: the first Test, two yellow cards and they come down 143 00:07:51,293 --> 00:07:53,493 Speaker 5: a cliff and almost let the puma's back in. And 144 00:07:53,613 --> 00:07:57,453 Speaker 5: then the worst performance of Scott Robinson's tenure last time out. 145 00:07:57,573 --> 00:08:02,293 Speaker 5: So that patchy elements. Is it a lack of concentration? 146 00:08:03,293 --> 00:08:09,053 Speaker 5: Is its system error? Is its combinations? Is it coaching floors? 147 00:08:09,093 --> 00:08:13,613 Speaker 5: Because that coaching team lacks experience on the test stage, 148 00:08:13,693 --> 00:08:15,813 Speaker 5: So that the in the middle of he like you say, 149 00:08:15,853 --> 00:08:18,133 Speaker 5: to put together a four to eighty minute performance, to 150 00:08:18,253 --> 00:08:22,693 Speaker 5: stay the course, to come up clutch, to have the 151 00:08:22,853 --> 00:08:26,333 Speaker 5: right discipline when things aren't going your way, to ride 152 00:08:26,413 --> 00:08:28,973 Speaker 5: through momentum and regain composure. 153 00:08:29,573 --> 00:08:31,693 Speaker 4: There are some big question marks in that regard over 154 00:08:31,733 --> 00:08:32,533 Speaker 4: this All Black team. 155 00:08:32,453 --> 00:08:36,333 Speaker 3: Certainly a few personnel notes to go through this week. 156 00:08:37,653 --> 00:08:40,253 Speaker 3: Half back wise, Cortes Ratama is going to be given 157 00:08:40,253 --> 00:08:43,053 Speaker 3: every opportunity to play this Saturday night at Eden Park 158 00:08:43,133 --> 00:08:45,773 Speaker 3: had a rib issue that we knew about coming back 159 00:08:45,773 --> 00:08:49,333 Speaker 3: from Argentina. He is touch and go. I think it's 160 00:08:49,373 --> 00:08:51,293 Speaker 3: fair to save for Saturday Night. We heard from Scott 161 00:08:51,333 --> 00:08:53,533 Speaker 3: robertson the last couple of hours basically saying they'll give 162 00:08:53,573 --> 00:08:55,093 Speaker 3: them every chance to play. 163 00:08:55,173 --> 00:08:55,853 Speaker 2: But it's firming. 164 00:08:55,893 --> 00:08:57,653 Speaker 3: You'd have to say that Philay Christie will make his 165 00:08:57,773 --> 00:09:02,253 Speaker 3: first his start in quite some time, and Kyle Preston 166 00:09:02,453 --> 00:09:04,413 Speaker 3: likely to make a dabu off the bench. Davy Row 167 00:09:05,133 --> 00:09:07,933 Speaker 3: has been called in his training cover to the All 168 00:09:07,973 --> 00:09:11,093 Speaker 3: Blacks this week as well. So that's a big blow 169 00:09:11,213 --> 00:09:14,613 Speaker 3: losing Cortiz Ratima if indeed he is out this week, 170 00:09:14,853 --> 00:09:17,893 Speaker 3: and it's a big pressure on Finlay Christie. 171 00:09:18,613 --> 00:09:20,853 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd never profess to be anywhere near in All 172 00:09:20,893 --> 00:09:23,653 Speaker 5: Black stage, but I've broken a fracture of rib playing 173 00:09:23,693 --> 00:09:29,173 Speaker 5: rugby before, and bloody hurts, and you think about carrying 174 00:09:29,293 --> 00:09:31,213 Speaker 5: that into a game, even if you did have a. 175 00:09:32,933 --> 00:09:35,173 Speaker 4: Jab or something like that. 176 00:09:36,493 --> 00:09:38,533 Speaker 5: If it ever needs to be, it has to be 177 00:09:38,933 --> 00:09:41,173 Speaker 5: clocks you early, you're certainly going to know about it. 178 00:09:41,213 --> 00:09:45,653 Speaker 5: So it's high risk to put someone into that combative 179 00:09:45,733 --> 00:09:48,853 Speaker 5: stage with that sort of an injury. So I would 180 00:09:48,933 --> 00:09:53,013 Speaker 5: be very surprised, particularly given they've called in Xavier Row 181 00:09:54,213 --> 00:09:57,893 Speaker 5: if Cortez does play this weekend, and look, he's a tough, 182 00:09:59,133 --> 00:10:02,573 Speaker 5: tough rooster. Cortez obviously played on with that injury, but 183 00:10:02,653 --> 00:10:06,733 Speaker 5: he was in significant pain. So like you say, jeez, 184 00:10:06,733 --> 00:10:08,653 Speaker 5: I've been the all Black's been really hard there. The 185 00:10:08,973 --> 00:10:13,333 Speaker 5: missing came Roy guard Noah Hotham is potentially number two 186 00:10:13,653 --> 00:10:16,493 Speaker 5: and he's out for much of the Rugby Championship, and 187 00:10:16,573 --> 00:10:20,053 Speaker 5: then you lose Cortez Latimer, so you're really digging deep 188 00:10:20,213 --> 00:10:21,413 Speaker 5: into to one position. 189 00:10:21,653 --> 00:10:23,613 Speaker 4: So that's a real area of concern. 190 00:10:23,733 --> 00:10:26,293 Speaker 5: Look, the one thing, I'm not a huge fan of 191 00:10:26,293 --> 00:10:28,853 Speaker 5: fin Le Christie, but he's not going to be overawed 192 00:10:28,893 --> 00:10:32,013 Speaker 5: by the stage. He was involved in those World Cup 193 00:10:32,053 --> 00:10:34,213 Speaker 5: knockout games. Off the bench, he's a pretty. 194 00:10:35,693 --> 00:10:38,213 Speaker 3: Coming seems to face him. He's level headed yet very 195 00:10:38,293 --> 00:10:40,333 Speaker 3: kind of high lows really when you speak to him. 196 00:10:40,453 --> 00:10:40,893 Speaker 2: That's right. 197 00:10:42,893 --> 00:10:46,133 Speaker 5: I do have concerns about his kicking game. It's de 198 00:10:46,213 --> 00:10:49,693 Speaker 5: al Black's their contestable kicks. The accuracy of them has 199 00:10:49,773 --> 00:10:54,973 Speaker 5: been in an area of vulnerability and that's not one 200 00:10:55,013 --> 00:10:57,213 Speaker 5: of his strengths. What he does bring, he's very nuggety, 201 00:10:57,533 --> 00:11:00,293 Speaker 5: he gets over the ball. He's usually very strong defensively. 202 00:11:01,133 --> 00:11:03,573 Speaker 5: His delivery is actually quite sharp off the deck if 203 00:11:03,613 --> 00:11:08,173 Speaker 5: you look at the speed. So he's an unflappable character. 204 00:11:08,373 --> 00:11:11,493 Speaker 5: He won't be take a backward step with the big 205 00:11:11,533 --> 00:11:14,853 Speaker 5: box forwards coming around the fringes. But yeah, and then 206 00:11:14,893 --> 00:11:19,293 Speaker 5: Kyle Preston, what a potentially massive occasion to make your debut. 207 00:11:19,773 --> 00:11:21,653 Speaker 5: And I guess the other one who's coming to the mix. 208 00:11:22,573 --> 00:11:24,173 Speaker 5: Very unlucky to se him this week, but less of 209 00:11:24,253 --> 00:11:27,053 Speaker 5: fighting a Nuoku played a couple of games for Tasman 210 00:11:27,253 --> 00:11:30,253 Speaker 5: and gets the board seal of approval to come in 211 00:11:30,333 --> 00:11:32,333 Speaker 5: a in any way surprised by that. 212 00:11:33,373 --> 00:11:35,813 Speaker 3: Not really, because it feels like they can bend the 213 00:11:35,893 --> 00:11:39,493 Speaker 3: rules as they see fit to get players and to 214 00:11:39,573 --> 00:11:42,693 Speaker 3: Marthy and Wise, all Blacks rugby season is over out 215 00:11:42,733 --> 00:11:45,133 Speaker 3: for three months with a broken arm. Fighting an Ooku 216 00:11:45,333 --> 00:11:47,413 Speaker 3: has been in good form for Tasman since coming back. 217 00:11:47,413 --> 00:11:49,493 Speaker 3: It's got a great try where he rushed off several 218 00:11:49,533 --> 00:11:53,693 Speaker 3: defenders against Otago on Saturday night. He is the logical replacement. 219 00:11:54,253 --> 00:11:56,613 Speaker 3: The board have clearly given their approval. He's been with 220 00:11:56,653 --> 00:11:59,133 Speaker 3: Tasman since the start of pre season, has played some 221 00:11:59,213 --> 00:12:02,813 Speaker 3: good rugby. I've got no problem with them him being selected. 222 00:12:03,173 --> 00:12:06,453 Speaker 3: It's more the straight jacket that they put on themselves 223 00:12:06,533 --> 00:12:08,613 Speaker 3: around these rules that they've got to bend. The You know, 224 00:12:08,853 --> 00:12:10,773 Speaker 3: you put the straight jacket on yourself, you know now 225 00:12:10,813 --> 00:12:12,453 Speaker 3: you want to get out of it. These are your 226 00:12:12,493 --> 00:12:14,853 Speaker 3: own rules. They're not dictated to by World Rugby. So 227 00:12:15,213 --> 00:12:17,373 Speaker 3: that's the kind of issue I've got around the eligibility 228 00:12:17,453 --> 00:12:19,333 Speaker 3: and the seven levers that they can pull. 229 00:12:19,453 --> 00:12:19,573 Speaker 1: Is it? 230 00:12:19,813 --> 00:12:21,933 Speaker 2: These are of their own making. You can break the 231 00:12:22,053 --> 00:12:23,933 Speaker 2: rules as much as you want. I know it. Maybe not. 232 00:12:24,333 --> 00:12:26,413 Speaker 3: That doesn't send the best message to players that have 233 00:12:26,493 --> 00:12:28,253 Speaker 3: been in New Zealand rugby for a number of times. 234 00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:30,293 Speaker 2: But I've seen it before on the podcast. 235 00:12:30,453 --> 00:12:33,293 Speaker 3: If you have a contract that is existing with New 236 00:12:33,373 --> 00:12:36,093 Speaker 3: Zealand Rugby, as far as I'm concerned, you are free 237 00:12:36,173 --> 00:12:38,413 Speaker 3: to play, You're eligible to play. 238 00:12:39,053 --> 00:12:40,213 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have an issue with it. 239 00:12:40,293 --> 00:12:44,173 Speaker 5: I think technically, and this is what I've seen previously 240 00:12:44,253 --> 00:12:47,573 Speaker 5: with guys like Damian McKenzie and TJ Peinara when they 241 00:12:48,093 --> 00:12:51,333 Speaker 5: went away to Japan and didn't have a New Zealand 242 00:12:51,373 --> 00:12:53,333 Speaker 5: Rugby contract, they had to come back and play a 243 00:12:53,413 --> 00:12:56,893 Speaker 5: whole season of NPCs. So that's why that's where the 244 00:12:56,933 --> 00:12:57,813 Speaker 5: precedent is set. 245 00:12:58,293 --> 00:13:02,053 Speaker 4: That's where it is. But I don't have an issue 246 00:13:02,093 --> 00:13:02,213 Speaker 4: with that. 247 00:13:02,213 --> 00:13:04,253 Speaker 5: He's come back, he's played a couple of games, he's 248 00:13:04,613 --> 00:13:06,773 Speaker 5: I think the key thing is he's committed his future. 249 00:13:07,493 --> 00:13:10,613 Speaker 5: He's not just back for five minutes and he's going 250 00:13:10,653 --> 00:13:14,653 Speaker 5: to buger off again. And look, when I think about 251 00:13:14,653 --> 00:13:18,293 Speaker 5: a guy like Lester fining Anookoo and I compare him 252 00:13:18,333 --> 00:13:20,933 Speaker 5: even to an antoin Leina Brown, and you think about 253 00:13:21,453 --> 00:13:25,013 Speaker 5: the versatility you put Lester on the bench and he 254 00:13:25,093 --> 00:13:28,853 Speaker 5: can cover second center, wing and just his power elements 255 00:13:30,173 --> 00:13:32,013 Speaker 5: that as a massive asset to heaving your squad. 256 00:13:32,173 --> 00:13:34,253 Speaker 2: You say you wouldn't expect to see him this week. 257 00:13:34,613 --> 00:13:38,173 Speaker 5: I don't think so. He only arrived in camp on 258 00:13:39,213 --> 00:13:41,573 Speaker 5: Sunday night. I think it's probably a wee bit of 259 00:13:41,613 --> 00:13:45,053 Speaker 5: a rush perhaps for the second Test in Wellington. 260 00:13:46,293 --> 00:13:47,853 Speaker 3: If he's fit and he's a good form, why not 261 00:13:47,973 --> 00:13:50,533 Speaker 3: get him in Like I think he is the kind 262 00:13:50,573 --> 00:13:52,373 Speaker 3: of difference maker that the All Blacks have been screaming 263 00:13:52,413 --> 00:13:55,013 Speaker 3: out for, especially with some of the injuries they've got 264 00:13:55,013 --> 00:13:58,413 Speaker 3: around Caleb Clark and Billy Procter has struggled. I don't 265 00:13:58,413 --> 00:14:00,773 Speaker 3: know whether i'd start him this week necessarily, but if 266 00:14:00,813 --> 00:14:02,533 Speaker 3: you put him in Jersey twenty three and have the 267 00:14:02,573 --> 00:14:04,093 Speaker 3: ability to use him on the wing, use him in 268 00:14:04,133 --> 00:14:06,573 Speaker 3: midfield in the last twenty five thirty minutes of a 269 00:14:06,653 --> 00:14:09,493 Speaker 3: Test match, why not. And that's the kind of position 270 00:14:09,533 --> 00:14:11,413 Speaker 3: i'mond if he's going to help you win the Test 271 00:14:11,453 --> 00:14:13,053 Speaker 3: match this week, put him in there. 272 00:14:13,733 --> 00:14:15,733 Speaker 5: I wouldn't have an issue that I think he'd be 273 00:14:16,133 --> 00:14:18,653 Speaker 5: make a massive impact if you talk about bringing someone 274 00:14:18,733 --> 00:14:21,773 Speaker 5: on and that in the second half when fatigues in 275 00:14:21,853 --> 00:14:25,613 Speaker 5: the mix, and he is the type of combative character 276 00:14:25,693 --> 00:14:28,933 Speaker 5: that could really stand up to some of those spring 277 00:14:29,013 --> 00:14:32,213 Speaker 5: Box players. Just on Caleb Clark, He's come back from 278 00:14:32,213 --> 00:14:35,493 Speaker 5: an ankle injury, played one game for Auckland and will 279 00:14:35,533 --> 00:14:38,413 Speaker 5: not be available for the All Blacks this weekend. 280 00:14:38,453 --> 00:14:42,133 Speaker 4: We'll play for Auckland again. I would have picked him. 281 00:14:42,173 --> 00:14:44,613 Speaker 2: Yeah, if he's got sorow. 282 00:14:44,613 --> 00:14:47,133 Speaker 3: Wlison's explanation around it was that they wanted to see 283 00:14:47,253 --> 00:14:49,533 Speaker 3: him get another game. Well, you can see him get 284 00:14:49,533 --> 00:14:51,693 Speaker 3: another game against South Africa this weekend if he's fit. 285 00:14:51,773 --> 00:14:52,093 Speaker 2: He's fit. 286 00:14:52,893 --> 00:14:55,613 Speaker 5: Yeah, and you've got massive issue issues under the high ball. 287 00:14:55,733 --> 00:14:59,693 Speaker 5: He's by far and away your best aerial athlete. I 288 00:14:59,773 --> 00:15:02,213 Speaker 5: would have been ushering him straight into the left wing. 289 00:15:02,373 --> 00:15:02,573 Speaker 2: Yeah. 290 00:15:02,733 --> 00:15:04,933 Speaker 3: And again you can protect yourself on the bench if 291 00:15:05,493 --> 00:15:08,693 Speaker 3: you know the ankle does tweak and injuries can happen. Again, 292 00:15:08,693 --> 00:15:12,173 Speaker 3: that's why you select a bench again. I just what's 293 00:15:12,213 --> 00:15:15,813 Speaker 3: the benefit of getting NPC game versus a test match 294 00:15:16,213 --> 00:15:19,533 Speaker 3: and then to roll Lomax has been with the thumb 295 00:15:19,533 --> 00:15:20,973 Speaker 3: and dry for the last few weeks, and I get 296 00:15:21,013 --> 00:15:23,133 Speaker 3: their different parts of the body, but he's had a 297 00:15:23,173 --> 00:15:25,213 Speaker 3: thumbdrefs last few weeks. Is going to go straight back 298 00:15:25,253 --> 00:15:27,613 Speaker 3: and presumably to the run on side to start in 299 00:15:28,733 --> 00:15:30,293 Speaker 3: the three Jersey on Saturday night. 300 00:15:30,693 --> 00:15:33,293 Speaker 5: Yeah. And Caleb Clark performed very well against the spring 301 00:15:33,373 --> 00:15:37,533 Speaker 5: Box in South Africa last year, and that's possibly because 302 00:15:37,573 --> 00:15:40,853 Speaker 5: of the way the spring Box play. You know, Grant 303 00:15:40,893 --> 00:15:42,733 Speaker 5: Williams is going to box kick all day. You know, 304 00:15:42,933 --> 00:15:45,093 Speaker 5: Andre Pollard is going to hoist to the heavens and 305 00:15:45,133 --> 00:15:48,253 Speaker 5: put it in crossfield kicks so I think it's an 306 00:15:48,253 --> 00:15:50,653 Speaker 5: oversight to not select Clark this week. 307 00:15:50,693 --> 00:15:52,613 Speaker 3: It should be noted that the All Blacks and New 308 00:15:52,653 --> 00:15:55,293 Speaker 3: Zealand ABY didn't take any notice of my comments on 309 00:15:55,293 --> 00:15:57,613 Speaker 3: Aby Direct last week. All my opinion piece for the 310 00:15:57,653 --> 00:16:00,893 Speaker 3: New Zealand Herald around getting Aaron Smith in. But that's 311 00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:02,533 Speaker 3: all right. You know you can't win them all your 312 00:16:02,573 --> 00:16:04,373 Speaker 3: fly kite sometimes and see what happens. 313 00:16:05,773 --> 00:16:07,613 Speaker 4: It's good to have an opinion people, It's be a 314 00:16:07,813 --> 00:16:09,213 Speaker 4: boring line otherwise. 315 00:16:08,853 --> 00:16:09,253 Speaker 2: That's right. 316 00:16:09,973 --> 00:16:12,453 Speaker 3: A regular sis Steve Lenthial from across the TASM and said, 317 00:16:13,413 --> 00:16:15,653 Speaker 3: do you or Liam have your boots ready to PLAYT nine? 318 00:16:15,693 --> 00:16:16,933 Speaker 2: Give them the current injury crisis. 319 00:16:16,973 --> 00:16:19,453 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm fairly confident if you've got you get 320 00:16:19,453 --> 00:16:21,253 Speaker 3: through seventy five minutes, I might come on for the 321 00:16:21,333 --> 00:16:21,733 Speaker 3: last five. 322 00:16:22,013 --> 00:16:23,053 Speaker 2: Yeah, you've played half. 323 00:16:22,933 --> 00:16:26,013 Speaker 4: Bankied the new but that's not saying a lot. 324 00:16:28,053 --> 00:16:29,173 Speaker 2: In terms of that All Blacks makes. 325 00:16:29,213 --> 00:16:30,573 Speaker 3: Then if we looked at this team which will be 326 00:16:30,573 --> 00:16:34,773 Speaker 3: announced on Thursday, do you expect big changes from the 327 00:16:34,853 --> 00:16:37,413 Speaker 3: side that lost to Argentina and Buenos Aires. 328 00:16:38,533 --> 00:16:41,493 Speaker 5: I don't know, but I think Wallace the TC comes 329 00:16:41,533 --> 00:16:44,893 Speaker 5: into eight already goes to seven. I think there's a 330 00:16:44,933 --> 00:16:47,213 Speaker 5: real question about whether the tup of goes back into 331 00:16:47,293 --> 00:16:52,333 Speaker 5: Locke and maybe they start Simon Parker at six. I 332 00:16:52,453 --> 00:16:55,933 Speaker 5: think that that balance Fabian Holland started to look a 333 00:16:55,973 --> 00:16:59,973 Speaker 5: bit fatigued. I think there's a real question about whether 334 00:17:00,013 --> 00:17:03,933 Speaker 5: you potentially go six to two on the bench but 335 00:17:04,933 --> 00:17:06,733 Speaker 5: one of and then there's the wings. 336 00:17:07,413 --> 00:17:10,813 Speaker 4: I think you don't want to push the panut button 337 00:17:11,173 --> 00:17:13,373 Speaker 4: here with with the you don't want. 338 00:17:13,213 --> 00:17:14,693 Speaker 2: Putting the panic pushing the panic button? 339 00:17:14,893 --> 00:17:15,013 Speaker 5: Is it? 340 00:17:15,733 --> 00:17:16,573 Speaker 2: These guys aren't playing? 341 00:17:16,613 --> 00:17:17,373 Speaker 4: Well? What other change? 342 00:17:18,253 --> 00:17:20,293 Speaker 5: I'm happy to change the wings, but I'm just saying 343 00:17:20,373 --> 00:17:22,853 Speaker 5: that you don't want to throw the baby out of 344 00:17:22,893 --> 00:17:27,173 Speaker 5: the bath water, like you you're yeah, what will Jordan 345 00:17:27,733 --> 00:17:29,733 Speaker 5: stays at fallback? I think Bowden stays at ten, and 346 00:17:29,773 --> 00:17:32,853 Speaker 5: I think the midfield probably stays unchanged. Like what are 347 00:17:32,853 --> 00:17:33,773 Speaker 5: the changes you're making? 348 00:17:33,973 --> 00:17:35,613 Speaker 3: Well, you can put least defying a nook on one 349 00:17:35,653 --> 00:17:40,053 Speaker 3: of the wings immediately changes the dynamic. I think of 350 00:17:40,093 --> 00:17:43,133 Speaker 3: that back line. If you put him in, he's eligible 351 00:17:43,173 --> 00:17:43,573 Speaker 3: for selection. 352 00:17:43,893 --> 00:17:46,173 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a there's an element of rest with that too. 353 00:17:46,253 --> 00:17:49,893 Speaker 5: His plays basically spent two years playing midfield in France. 354 00:17:51,333 --> 00:17:53,173 Speaker 5: How much high ballwork has he done, that's where he's 355 00:17:53,213 --> 00:17:53,853 Speaker 5: going to be targeted. 356 00:17:54,013 --> 00:17:58,173 Speaker 3: Yep, And that is a very good question. What about 357 00:17:58,453 --> 00:18:00,693 Speaker 3: but what are you doing with I'm keeping too provide there. 358 00:18:00,933 --> 00:18:03,413 Speaker 3: I agree that Holland is looking a little bit fatigued. 359 00:18:03,493 --> 00:18:06,373 Speaker 3: I mean he's played. I think he came off the bench. Sorry, 360 00:18:06,773 --> 00:18:10,533 Speaker 3: was substituted in the last game in Buenos Aires, but 361 00:18:10,613 --> 00:18:12,413 Speaker 3: that was the first time he didn't play eighty as 362 00:18:12,453 --> 00:18:15,613 Speaker 3: an All Black, and this is a young kid being exposed. 363 00:18:15,653 --> 00:18:16,773 Speaker 2: He's ruby for the first time. 364 00:18:17,133 --> 00:18:19,613 Speaker 3: Probably wouldn't have played every test in the French series 365 00:18:19,613 --> 00:18:23,373 Speaker 3: if not for Scott Barrett's injury and obviously the shift 366 00:18:23,413 --> 00:18:25,293 Speaker 3: from two BO five to six, so he's had a 367 00:18:25,333 --> 00:18:27,613 Speaker 3: big workload. But I still think that they'll probably get 368 00:18:27,613 --> 00:18:28,813 Speaker 3: another test out of him this week. 369 00:18:29,853 --> 00:18:30,533 Speaker 2: What about. 370 00:18:32,013 --> 00:18:35,613 Speaker 5: Last timeouts to Mighty, Williams came off the bench Ethan 371 00:18:35,693 --> 00:18:40,613 Speaker 5: the group starts. It's an interesting question because Ethan Degree 372 00:18:40,733 --> 00:18:41,893 Speaker 5: is not really an impact player. 373 00:18:42,053 --> 00:18:42,573 Speaker 2: Yeah, but. 374 00:18:44,173 --> 00:18:47,453 Speaker 4: To Mighty and Williams can play sixty seventy minutes, So 375 00:18:47,853 --> 00:18:48,613 Speaker 4: what are you doing there? 376 00:18:48,773 --> 00:18:50,933 Speaker 3: I'm starting Ethan degreed again this week with an either 377 00:18:51,053 --> 00:18:53,253 Speaker 3: to Mighty starting next week in Wellington. 378 00:18:53,853 --> 00:18:54,333 Speaker 2: I think. 379 00:18:55,933 --> 00:18:58,213 Speaker 3: He hasn't had the rugby load to Mighty Williams in 380 00:18:58,293 --> 00:19:01,413 Speaker 3: recent times to not justify justify as the wrong word, 381 00:19:01,493 --> 00:19:04,373 Speaker 3: but as a prop to play that sixty minute spell, 382 00:19:04,533 --> 00:19:07,173 Speaker 3: I think he needs to build into it. Give him 383 00:19:07,293 --> 00:19:10,893 Speaker 3: another half hour this week. And again we're talking about 384 00:19:10,933 --> 00:19:13,293 Speaker 3: impact off the bench to Mighty can bring that in spade. 385 00:19:13,453 --> 00:19:15,733 Speaker 3: So I think for this week I would stick with 386 00:19:15,813 --> 00:19:18,013 Speaker 3: Ethan de Groot, who's I think been pretty good so 387 00:19:18,173 --> 00:19:20,613 Speaker 3: far this season, with a lot of question marks in 388 00:19:20,613 --> 00:19:22,773 Speaker 3: the offseason and various things around his role in the 389 00:19:22,813 --> 00:19:25,493 Speaker 3: All Blacks, you know, after the question marks at that 390 00:19:25,573 --> 00:19:27,293 Speaker 3: end of the year too, I think he's responded well. 391 00:19:27,733 --> 00:19:29,893 Speaker 2: But I'll probably stick with Ethan to start it this week. 392 00:19:30,413 --> 00:19:36,453 Speaker 5: Ye I think that's the way they'll go. But I 393 00:19:36,613 --> 00:19:39,613 Speaker 5: want to harness to Whity because he he is the 394 00:19:39,773 --> 00:19:42,293 Speaker 5: all court modern day prop. He's athletic, he brings so 395 00:19:42,413 --> 00:19:45,133 Speaker 5: much more around the field with his ball skills, and 396 00:19:45,253 --> 00:19:48,453 Speaker 5: I don't think you really lose much of anything from 397 00:19:48,493 --> 00:19:49,493 Speaker 5: a scrummaging perspective. 398 00:19:49,533 --> 00:19:51,533 Speaker 2: Would you go Lomax straight in at tighthead? 399 00:19:51,773 --> 00:19:53,453 Speaker 4: I think Lomex will come off the bench. 400 00:19:53,853 --> 00:19:56,253 Speaker 5: He hasn't played a lot of rugby this show and 401 00:19:56,333 --> 00:19:58,813 Speaker 5: Fletchernel's playing out of his skin exceptionally well. 402 00:20:00,653 --> 00:20:03,613 Speaker 3: Lomex played ten games, the Hurricanes had a couple of injuries. 403 00:20:03,693 --> 00:20:05,693 Speaker 3: There only once in the All Black, so eleven games 404 00:20:05,693 --> 00:20:08,853 Speaker 3: all year, which is a low low load. Let's go 405 00:20:08,933 --> 00:20:11,253 Speaker 3: back to the wings. Who are your All Black starting 406 00:20:11,293 --> 00:20:11,853 Speaker 3: wings this week? 407 00:20:15,013 --> 00:20:17,973 Speaker 5: I think there's a strong argument. I don't think they'll 408 00:20:18,013 --> 00:20:21,413 Speaker 5: do this, but Will Jordan is probably your best or 409 00:20:21,453 --> 00:20:25,613 Speaker 5: Black wing. I don't think they'll do that. I would 410 00:20:25,613 --> 00:20:28,053 Speaker 5: be putting the money in Narawa and to start because 411 00:20:28,093 --> 00:20:32,213 Speaker 5: I think he has rew upside it in the air. 412 00:20:32,893 --> 00:20:39,573 Speaker 5: He's actually quite a silky athlete. And the other thing 413 00:20:39,573 --> 00:20:44,533 Speaker 5: I would have started Caleb Clark, but I think Scott 414 00:20:44,613 --> 00:20:48,133 Speaker 5: Robinson is quite a loyal coaches and he at heart, 415 00:20:49,573 --> 00:20:55,573 Speaker 5: and maybe he drops one of them and retains Rico. 416 00:20:55,693 --> 00:20:56,093 Speaker 4: Perhaps. 417 00:20:57,493 --> 00:21:01,253 Speaker 5: I think Sevu could be targeted just purely because of 418 00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:04,733 Speaker 5: his height, but Rico hasn't shown a great capacity since 419 00:21:04,813 --> 00:21:08,253 Speaker 5: going to the wing of not only on a defensive bomb, 420 00:21:08,573 --> 00:21:11,773 Speaker 5: but contesting and chasing kicks like he really needs a 421 00:21:11,853 --> 00:21:12,013 Speaker 5: rock it. 422 00:21:12,093 --> 00:21:15,733 Speaker 3: In that regard, I would like to see Natawa this week. 423 00:21:15,973 --> 00:21:17,733 Speaker 3: I mean ideal, I like see if iing and Ky. 424 00:21:17,813 --> 00:21:19,573 Speaker 3: I mean I've advocated a few moments ago for him 425 00:21:19,613 --> 00:21:22,173 Speaker 3: to maybe come off the bench. I suspect you won't 426 00:21:22,213 --> 00:21:26,613 Speaker 3: start this week on the left wing, Leroy Carter. It's 427 00:21:26,613 --> 00:21:28,653 Speaker 3: an aerial game. Not sure that this is the test 428 00:21:28,693 --> 00:21:30,853 Speaker 3: todaybuting and again I would have liked to see him 429 00:21:30,853 --> 00:21:34,293 Speaker 3: and Is off the bench potentially, but I believe that 430 00:21:34,493 --> 00:21:36,173 Speaker 3: out and out pace. I mean, look at the box 431 00:21:36,253 --> 00:21:40,013 Speaker 3: wings that they've had through recent years, Curtly, Arens, Cheslin Colby. 432 00:21:40,093 --> 00:21:42,413 Speaker 3: These aren't big blokes. These are pocket rockets. 433 00:21:42,773 --> 00:21:46,173 Speaker 5: Same with the Wallabies. Yeah, Max Jorgensen. It's not all 434 00:21:46,173 --> 00:21:49,453 Speaker 5: about my small individuals at all. Yeah, they were some 435 00:21:49,613 --> 00:21:51,453 Speaker 5: of their best performers in South Africa. 436 00:21:51,573 --> 00:21:51,933 Speaker 2: That's right. 437 00:21:52,293 --> 00:21:55,813 Speaker 3: And then I would like to see Liroy Carter. I 438 00:21:55,853 --> 00:21:58,333 Speaker 3: think he's the point of difference that pace. I think 439 00:21:58,373 --> 00:22:02,093 Speaker 3: he's the fastest player in New Zealand Super Rugby. Again, 440 00:22:02,293 --> 00:22:04,173 Speaker 3: this is unlikely they give him the opportunity this week, 441 00:22:04,213 --> 00:22:05,533 Speaker 3: but I would like to see him in the mix 442 00:22:05,613 --> 00:22:05,893 Speaker 3: this week. 443 00:22:05,973 --> 00:22:08,613 Speaker 4: Yeah. Some of these a lot of these selection questions. 444 00:22:09,733 --> 00:22:13,253 Speaker 5: Comes back to how the All Blacks approach the box 445 00:22:13,773 --> 00:22:17,173 Speaker 5: because stylistically, for me, it's important that the All Blacks 446 00:22:17,213 --> 00:22:18,453 Speaker 5: don't go into their shells. 447 00:22:18,533 --> 00:22:20,333 Speaker 4: Yeah, don't become too conservative. 448 00:22:20,413 --> 00:22:22,653 Speaker 5: You look and for me, a lot of it comes 449 00:22:22,733 --> 00:22:25,653 Speaker 5: back to how the Wallabies really tested the spring Box 450 00:22:25,773 --> 00:22:29,293 Speaker 5: and I would argue Joe Schmidt was a massive part 451 00:22:29,493 --> 00:22:34,413 Speaker 5: of the All Black's revival and the success they had 452 00:22:34,413 --> 00:22:36,133 Speaker 5: against the spring Box, that big triumph. 453 00:22:37,813 --> 00:22:39,693 Speaker 4: They push them to the brink in the World Cup final. 454 00:22:40,373 --> 00:22:46,693 Speaker 5: Stylistically, the Wallabies are fatigued a very big, heavy. 455 00:22:46,613 --> 00:22:49,533 Speaker 4: Slow and mobile spring Box po on the high velt. 456 00:22:49,653 --> 00:22:53,093 Speaker 5: Yeah, they stretched them with their kicking game, with their pace, 457 00:22:53,293 --> 00:22:55,933 Speaker 5: with their ball movement. And for me, that's where this 458 00:22:56,013 --> 00:22:57,053 Speaker 5: All Black team needs to go. 459 00:22:57,253 --> 00:22:57,733 Speaker 4: It needs to. 460 00:22:59,693 --> 00:23:03,013 Speaker 5: Unlock and unleash their attack and they do that by 461 00:23:03,053 --> 00:23:05,133 Speaker 5: bringing fatigue into the game, not by. 462 00:23:06,693 --> 00:23:08,333 Speaker 4: Being dragged into a dog fire. 463 00:23:08,493 --> 00:23:10,493 Speaker 5: And to the South Africa, how the South Africa want 464 00:23:10,533 --> 00:23:14,973 Speaker 5: you to play with the contestable kicks, with the set 465 00:23:15,013 --> 00:23:17,453 Speaker 5: piece battle. You can be strong in those areas, but 466 00:23:18,573 --> 00:23:20,373 Speaker 5: you've got a play at pace. You have to bring 467 00:23:20,453 --> 00:23:22,573 Speaker 5: fatigue into the game. You have to use your skill 468 00:23:22,653 --> 00:23:26,413 Speaker 5: sets and attack because yeah, the Springboks are going to kick, 469 00:23:26,453 --> 00:23:28,453 Speaker 5: but that actually opens up a lot of opportunity and 470 00:23:28,533 --> 00:23:31,853 Speaker 5: the counter attack because the defensive lines are broken. So 471 00:23:32,853 --> 00:23:35,013 Speaker 5: I really want this All Black team to be brave 472 00:23:35,213 --> 00:23:38,773 Speaker 5: and to attack and to not be conservative. In the 473 00:23:38,813 --> 00:23:42,453 Speaker 5: backdrop of all this pressure of Eden Park, of the 474 00:23:42,773 --> 00:23:45,973 Speaker 5: magnitude of the occasion of coming off a defeat, then 475 00:23:46,133 --> 00:23:48,493 Speaker 5: they really need to be brave and take this head on. 476 00:23:48,933 --> 00:23:53,093 Speaker 3: This even part record, it's kind of it's the old 477 00:23:53,133 --> 00:23:56,173 Speaker 3: millstone around the neck, isn't it that eventually at some 478 00:23:56,213 --> 00:23:58,253 Speaker 3: point is going to get broken, whether it's this week 479 00:23:58,293 --> 00:24:01,733 Speaker 3: on and almost that fear of being the team that 480 00:24:01,853 --> 00:24:05,373 Speaker 3: loses it is real. It's also while we don't have 481 00:24:05,413 --> 00:24:08,533 Speaker 3: a new stadium, partly because everyone talks about how rate 482 00:24:08,573 --> 00:24:11,453 Speaker 3: even Parkers and the record it is that's trotted out 483 00:24:11,493 --> 00:24:13,693 Speaker 3: as a line, why you know we should keep it 484 00:24:13,773 --> 00:24:17,493 Speaker 3: as you know, the All Blacks spiritual home. So it's 485 00:24:17,533 --> 00:24:18,933 Speaker 3: got to go at some point, but it is. It's 486 00:24:19,173 --> 00:24:21,773 Speaker 3: a real thing that has talked about already, been talked 487 00:24:21,773 --> 00:24:25,413 Speaker 3: about at the media conferences this week. You know around 488 00:24:26,373 --> 00:24:29,013 Speaker 3: how much that Eden Park record means fifty without loss. 489 00:24:30,293 --> 00:24:32,453 Speaker 5: You can you can read a lot into these things, 490 00:24:32,653 --> 00:24:36,613 Speaker 5: and whether it transpires in the match itself is another matter. 491 00:24:36,653 --> 00:24:38,773 Speaker 5: But I was actually quite impressed with Scott Robinson today, 492 00:24:38,813 --> 00:24:40,973 Speaker 5: because there have been a number of times I think 493 00:24:41,093 --> 00:24:46,893 Speaker 5: in his short tenure where partly because of his dyslexia 494 00:24:46,973 --> 00:24:48,773 Speaker 5: and those things, he is not. 495 00:24:50,573 --> 00:24:50,813 Speaker 4: Great. 496 00:24:50,893 --> 00:24:54,813 Speaker 5: It's expressing himself when when the stakes are really high, 497 00:24:55,053 --> 00:24:57,573 Speaker 5: or when he's uncomfortable in the spotlight. But today he 498 00:24:57,733 --> 00:25:02,613 Speaker 5: was very calm and eloquent and spoke to that fear, 499 00:25:02,693 --> 00:25:07,293 Speaker 5: didn't he He said, Look, it's a human reaction and 500 00:25:07,493 --> 00:25:10,613 Speaker 5: actually that's quite a good thing to prepare the body to, 501 00:25:12,293 --> 00:25:17,933 Speaker 5: you know, like a protectionism, a reaction, and if if 502 00:25:17,973 --> 00:25:19,973 Speaker 5: that translates through the All Blacks, I think it's a 503 00:25:20,053 --> 00:25:22,493 Speaker 5: good thing. And yeah, there is a fear of losing, 504 00:25:22,573 --> 00:25:25,053 Speaker 5: but there is a real sense of comfort. You've got 505 00:25:25,093 --> 00:25:29,653 Speaker 5: to remember there's still a lot of experience and fond 506 00:25:29,733 --> 00:25:32,573 Speaker 5: memories for so many of those senior All Blacks. Eden 507 00:25:32,613 --> 00:25:36,373 Speaker 5: Park is a place of comfort. So while it's yeah, 508 00:25:36,413 --> 00:25:38,733 Speaker 5: while there is a lot of pressure to uphold that record, 509 00:25:39,213 --> 00:25:41,253 Speaker 5: it is a place of strength for the All Blacks. 510 00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:45,853 Speaker 5: And on the other side of the coin, it's the 511 00:25:45,973 --> 00:25:50,453 Speaker 5: last bastion for this Spring Boks team who are in 512 00:25:50,533 --> 00:25:53,733 Speaker 5: the conversation for among the greatest teams of all time. 513 00:25:53,933 --> 00:25:56,533 Speaker 5: They back to back Welch Cup champions have pretty much 514 00:25:56,573 --> 00:26:00,693 Speaker 5: done everything else and this is the last one they 515 00:26:00,733 --> 00:26:01,493 Speaker 5: want to knock. 516 00:26:01,293 --> 00:26:04,453 Speaker 3: Off you and that and it also there's a lot 517 00:26:04,493 --> 00:26:05,973 Speaker 3: of string Walks players that I don't think will make 518 00:26:06,013 --> 00:26:09,853 Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven and this team, and they haven't toured 519 00:26:09,893 --> 00:26:12,253 Speaker 3: New Zealand that often due to COVID. I only came 520 00:26:12,293 --> 00:26:15,693 Speaker 3: once in the last World Cup cycle when they went 521 00:26:15,733 --> 00:26:18,493 Speaker 3: to Mount Smart because of the FIFA World Cup Women's 522 00:26:18,533 --> 00:26:20,293 Speaker 3: World Cup that was on at the same time. They 523 00:26:20,333 --> 00:26:23,933 Speaker 3: haven't played at eden Park since twenty thirteen. They would 524 00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:25,733 Speaker 3: have gone there in twenty seventeen but they just had 525 00:26:25,813 --> 00:26:28,173 Speaker 3: to The backs just had two lines tests at eden Park. 526 00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,453 Speaker 3: So there's been all sorts of reasons they haven't played 527 00:26:30,573 --> 00:26:33,333 Speaker 3: at eden Park that often. And it feels like you're 528 00:26:33,413 --> 00:26:37,093 Speaker 3: right final frontier. Maybe some of these players don't make 529 00:26:37,373 --> 00:26:39,453 Speaker 3: the twenty seven World Cup, as a suggested with Aordue 530 00:26:39,453 --> 00:26:41,173 Speaker 3: respect because it feels like some of them have the 531 00:26:41,213 --> 00:26:42,773 Speaker 3: age profile that is just not going to help the 532 00:26:42,813 --> 00:26:45,613 Speaker 3: spring Box when they get there. So big tests from 533 00:26:45,613 --> 00:26:46,813 Speaker 3: the Springbox this weekend as well. 534 00:26:46,853 --> 00:26:47,213 Speaker 2: Big moment. 535 00:26:47,293 --> 00:26:49,373 Speaker 5: Well, that's right, let's run through some of their ages 536 00:26:49,413 --> 00:26:51,413 Speaker 5: because this is a big question mark around the Box. 537 00:26:51,493 --> 00:26:54,213 Speaker 5: You know, how long do you hang on to a 538 00:26:54,253 --> 00:26:56,933 Speaker 5: certain generation of player and when are they passed that 539 00:26:57,373 --> 00:27:00,893 Speaker 5: Fords do tend to play on longer yep, particularly Hookers 540 00:27:01,213 --> 00:27:04,773 Speaker 5: and the Light, but even Estabeth thirty three, Kaliss thirty four, 541 00:27:04,933 --> 00:27:09,373 Speaker 5: Oxen each thirty, marx Is thirty one, Moster thirty four, 542 00:27:09,493 --> 00:27:14,053 Speaker 5: Sniemon thirty, Thomas through Toy thirty, the Yaga thirty two, 543 00:27:14,173 --> 00:27:19,693 Speaker 5: Quager Smith thirty two. So you're coming down the other 544 00:27:19,733 --> 00:27:22,693 Speaker 5: side potentially. So that is a real question around this 545 00:27:22,773 --> 00:27:26,533 Speaker 5: Box team. You know, they haven't regenerated and will that 546 00:27:26,653 --> 00:27:28,133 Speaker 5: catch up with them and might. 547 00:27:28,133 --> 00:27:28,533 Speaker 2: Do at some point. 548 00:27:28,533 --> 00:27:30,573 Speaker 3: I mean they've got a massive squad of Lot fifty 549 00:27:30,653 --> 00:27:32,813 Speaker 3: that they had at one point. There's clearly an I 550 00:27:32,933 --> 00:27:35,773 Speaker 3: to the future from Russi, but hasn't pulled the trigger 551 00:27:36,413 --> 00:27:40,613 Speaker 3: as yet on really bringing those players into run on 552 00:27:40,733 --> 00:27:42,853 Speaker 3: sides on a regular basis. He's given a lot of 553 00:27:42,893 --> 00:27:45,693 Speaker 3: them a taste, but he's stuck with those players and 554 00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:48,973 Speaker 3: whether it happens after this Rugby Championship, whether it happens 555 00:27:49,013 --> 00:27:51,053 Speaker 3: on the end of Yew tour. Feels like at some 556 00:27:51,173 --> 00:27:53,933 Speaker 3: point he's going to have to make those decisions as 557 00:27:54,053 --> 00:27:57,293 Speaker 3: as Springbooks coach. So yeah, it's in some ways it 558 00:27:57,333 --> 00:27:59,533 Speaker 3: could be not necessarily an end of an era for 559 00:27:59,653 --> 00:28:01,213 Speaker 3: this too. You know, on this tour of the theke 560 00:28:01,213 --> 00:28:03,373 Speaker 3: a couple of weeks with the spring Walks, but you 561 00:28:03,413 --> 00:28:04,933 Speaker 3: know they are at some point going to have to 562 00:28:05,413 --> 00:28:07,293 Speaker 3: look to twenty twenty seven and decide the best mix 563 00:28:07,413 --> 00:28:07,693 Speaker 3: for them. 564 00:28:08,373 --> 00:28:11,333 Speaker 5: There's so many different elements at play here and in questions, 565 00:28:11,373 --> 00:28:13,733 Speaker 5: aren't there in the backdrop of all this. Another one 566 00:28:13,813 --> 00:28:17,853 Speaker 5: for me is the coaching wits. You've got Russi Rassmus, 567 00:28:17,933 --> 00:28:21,573 Speaker 5: the the Lord and Savior of South African rugby, you know, 568 00:28:21,693 --> 00:28:25,053 Speaker 5: this god like figure, the great innovator, the man that's 569 00:28:25,133 --> 00:28:28,573 Speaker 5: delivered them so much success, who has so much experience 570 00:28:28,733 --> 00:28:32,973 Speaker 5: at test level up against a relative rookie, and Scott Robinson, 571 00:28:33,013 --> 00:28:37,733 Speaker 5: who had great experience, great success or domestic rugby, is 572 00:28:38,013 --> 00:28:43,013 Speaker 5: unproven and his coaching team is the same your black 573 00:28:43,053 --> 00:28:45,533 Speaker 5: Sad Wayne Smith in their camp this week, So tap 574 00:28:45,613 --> 00:28:48,493 Speaker 5: into the to the professor. But on a big occasion 575 00:28:48,653 --> 00:28:51,613 Speaker 5: like this, how much do you put down to the 576 00:28:51,693 --> 00:28:52,413 Speaker 5: coaching wits? 577 00:28:52,813 --> 00:28:53,453 Speaker 4: How much. 578 00:28:55,213 --> 00:28:57,813 Speaker 5: How much influence do those little special players have, whether 579 00:28:57,813 --> 00:29:00,533 Speaker 5: it's a line out, set move or a piece of 580 00:29:00,613 --> 00:29:04,013 Speaker 5: trickery that that scene in analysis. You know how much 581 00:29:04,013 --> 00:29:07,093 Speaker 5: does experience matter. So it is a massive week from 582 00:29:07,253 --> 00:29:08,293 Speaker 5: a coaching perspective too. 583 00:29:08,493 --> 00:29:08,733 Speaker 2: It is. 584 00:29:08,893 --> 00:29:11,413 Speaker 3: Yeah, all those details that you mentioned there, and Tony 585 00:29:11,453 --> 00:29:13,613 Speaker 3: Brown's had the full bag of tricks right throughout his 586 00:29:13,733 --> 00:29:16,253 Speaker 3: coaching career when he's at the Highlanders. You know, the 587 00:29:16,493 --> 00:29:18,373 Speaker 3: special plays that he'd come up with. I'm sure there's 588 00:29:18,373 --> 00:29:20,493 Speaker 3: a couple up the sleeve from Tony Brown for this 589 00:29:20,573 --> 00:29:22,813 Speaker 3: weekend that the All Blacks won't have seen the pictures 590 00:29:22,813 --> 00:29:25,093 Speaker 3: of in their analysis. You hope that the All Blacks 591 00:29:25,173 --> 00:29:28,133 Speaker 3: have something similar. You think back to that can royguard 592 00:29:28,213 --> 00:29:30,613 Speaker 3: try he scored in Wellington off the line out that 593 00:29:30,773 --> 00:29:33,173 Speaker 3: was worked up by Brne Evans. You know, maybe the 594 00:29:33,213 --> 00:29:35,333 Speaker 3: All Blacks have got a few up their sleeve as well. 595 00:29:35,373 --> 00:29:38,853 Speaker 3: But it is all about those one percenters to try 596 00:29:38,893 --> 00:29:42,333 Speaker 3: and find, you know, whatever the small margins are to 597 00:29:42,413 --> 00:29:44,333 Speaker 3: win this Test match on Saturday night. 598 00:29:45,213 --> 00:29:47,893 Speaker 5: Do you expect the We've seen the spring Box played 599 00:29:48,253 --> 00:29:49,853 Speaker 5: two different ways against the Wallabies. 600 00:29:50,013 --> 00:29:51,373 Speaker 4: One worked for them, one didn't. 601 00:29:51,453 --> 00:29:52,693 Speaker 2: I think they'll go with the one that worked for 602 00:29:52,733 --> 00:29:53,853 Speaker 2: them this weekends. 603 00:29:54,533 --> 00:29:56,373 Speaker 5: It's my suspicion yeah, because it could be a bit 604 00:29:56,413 --> 00:30:00,453 Speaker 5: of rain rounds. It's all yeah, yeah, but I hope 605 00:30:00,453 --> 00:30:04,773 Speaker 5: the all blacks, regardless of conditions, just still play. And 606 00:30:05,013 --> 00:30:08,853 Speaker 5: Scott Robinson intimated that today. But following through on that 607 00:30:09,373 --> 00:30:11,493 Speaker 5: can be a bit of a different beast when when 608 00:30:11,533 --> 00:30:15,573 Speaker 5: that that rush pressure is coming in your face, when 609 00:30:15,773 --> 00:30:19,293 Speaker 5: you know scoreboard might not be on your sides, when 610 00:30:19,333 --> 00:30:20,253 Speaker 5: the stakes are so high. 611 00:30:20,533 --> 00:30:20,893 Speaker 2: That's right. 612 00:30:20,973 --> 00:30:22,733 Speaker 3: We'll take a quick break here on Rugby come back 613 00:30:22,733 --> 00:30:24,933 Speaker 3: with a few rugby topics to cover off after this. 614 00:30:25,973 --> 00:30:30,013 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 615 00:30:33,613 --> 00:30:37,573 Speaker 2: Try Drive had sixty sec every tackle, tackles, Get up again, 616 00:30:40,533 --> 00:30:45,093 Speaker 2: I can't afore times. It's Rugby Direct. You're back with 617 00:30:45,373 --> 00:30:47,773 Speaker 2: Rugby Direct time out for the final four. 618 00:30:47,853 --> 00:30:51,973 Speaker 3: Four rugby topics and an important one to cover off, 619 00:30:52,173 --> 00:30:55,453 Speaker 3: I think Liam the passing of Shane Christie last week. 620 00:30:56,213 --> 00:30:59,373 Speaker 3: Tasman flanker of more than seventy games for his province, 621 00:30:59,733 --> 00:31:05,333 Speaker 3: also coached Tasman Highlanders co captain and regular player for 622 00:31:05,413 --> 00:31:07,933 Speaker 3: them as well, and also the coaching role with the 623 00:31:08,013 --> 00:31:09,333 Speaker 3: high as well. 624 00:31:10,653 --> 00:31:12,253 Speaker 2: He suspected he had CTE. 625 00:31:13,133 --> 00:31:19,013 Speaker 3: He suspect you suspected suicide Last week and you know, 626 00:31:19,293 --> 00:31:23,973 Speaker 3: shockingly sad news and again just confronting around some of 627 00:31:24,013 --> 00:31:27,093 Speaker 3: those issues that face us in rugby and professional rugby 628 00:31:27,253 --> 00:31:30,333 Speaker 3: and really make you take a step back. 629 00:31:31,733 --> 00:31:32,213 Speaker 4: Massively. 630 00:31:32,413 --> 00:31:36,973 Speaker 5: And you and I were talking to Finlay Christie today 631 00:31:37,013 --> 00:31:39,093 Speaker 5: and a stand up and I think that the raw 632 00:31:39,213 --> 00:31:43,733 Speaker 5: emotion for people and players and anyone who was closely 633 00:31:43,773 --> 00:31:47,733 Speaker 5: connected with Shane is still very evident. I think his 634 00:31:48,293 --> 00:31:50,653 Speaker 5: service will be on Tuesday in New Zealand. 635 00:31:50,733 --> 00:31:53,413 Speaker 4: And look, I think. 636 00:31:54,773 --> 00:31:59,373 Speaker 5: First and foremost Shane was an incredibly courageous player, hugely underrated, 637 00:31:59,453 --> 00:32:05,213 Speaker 5: probably open side flanker. He co captain the Honders and 638 00:32:05,573 --> 00:32:09,853 Speaker 5: you know went into coaching. There's no doubt that he 639 00:32:10,053 --> 00:32:14,173 Speaker 5: was massively affected by his good friend Billy Geisen's death 640 00:32:14,573 --> 00:32:19,573 Speaker 5: and he could quite well to be found to be 641 00:32:19,653 --> 00:32:22,373 Speaker 5: found to have suffered the same fate, because Christy will 642 00:32:22,453 --> 00:32:25,973 Speaker 5: donate his brain to science to be studied to find 643 00:32:26,013 --> 00:32:28,773 Speaker 5: out whether indeed he does have CT, which can only 644 00:32:28,853 --> 00:32:34,573 Speaker 5: be diagnosed post mortem. And yeah, I guess you feel 645 00:32:34,653 --> 00:32:39,053 Speaker 5: for everyone who knew him and he was on a 646 00:32:39,093 --> 00:32:39,973 Speaker 5: bit of a crusade. 647 00:32:40,013 --> 00:32:40,813 Speaker 4: Wasn't a shamed to. 648 00:32:42,813 --> 00:32:47,133 Speaker 5: Get bitter support, education and understanding around head knocks in 649 00:32:47,213 --> 00:32:51,053 Speaker 5: the game. I think New Zealand Rugby have not shied 650 00:32:51,093 --> 00:32:52,933 Speaker 5: away from that. They have done a lot to tackle 651 00:32:53,013 --> 00:32:59,013 Speaker 5: that issue. There's always more that can be done. And yeah, 652 00:32:59,053 --> 00:33:01,773 Speaker 5: I think the one thing you've got to say is 653 00:33:01,813 --> 00:33:04,413 Speaker 5: you can never understand what people are going through unless 654 00:33:04,493 --> 00:33:06,813 Speaker 5: you're walking in those shoes. And ct is a real 655 00:33:07,413 --> 00:33:12,053 Speaker 5: disease and it can make you manic, it can make 656 00:33:12,093 --> 00:33:17,093 Speaker 5: you depressed, and unless you're in that space, you can't 657 00:33:17,133 --> 00:33:19,733 Speaker 5: relate to it. So he's thirty nine years old, man, 658 00:33:19,773 --> 00:33:24,893 Speaker 5: I'm thirty seven. Just incredibly sad to lose someone at 659 00:33:24,893 --> 00:33:25,813 Speaker 5: that age. 660 00:33:25,973 --> 00:33:28,093 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a great player, and. 661 00:33:29,613 --> 00:33:31,813 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean when it comes to rugby, and I 662 00:33:31,893 --> 00:33:34,653 Speaker 3: know there are some loud voices and you know form 663 00:33:34,733 --> 00:33:36,893 Speaker 3: players that have got CTE. I think of Alex Pop 664 00:33:36,973 --> 00:33:39,613 Speaker 3: and miss with Jackson and Pye the other day and 665 00:33:39,893 --> 00:33:42,333 Speaker 3: others that have that have lent their voice. And to 666 00:33:42,493 --> 00:33:45,813 Speaker 3: be dealing with your life while you are dealing with 667 00:33:45,893 --> 00:33:48,493 Speaker 3: what you suspect is CTE and your brain's not quite 668 00:33:48,573 --> 00:33:53,053 Speaker 3: working as you know it should is terrifying, absolutely terrifying. 669 00:33:53,253 --> 00:33:53,693 Speaker 2: You think of. 670 00:33:55,453 --> 00:33:57,173 Speaker 3: You know, people in old age who you go through 671 00:33:57,213 --> 00:33:59,533 Speaker 3: these things, Well, it's an accelerated essentially a version of 672 00:34:00,213 --> 00:34:02,213 Speaker 3: you know that right at the end of their lives. 673 00:34:02,253 --> 00:34:04,013 Speaker 3: You know, these has happened to people in their thirties 674 00:34:04,053 --> 00:34:06,093 Speaker 3: and forties. And I guess the question is, you know, 675 00:34:06,173 --> 00:34:08,173 Speaker 3: should Rugby be doing more? I suppose they can always 676 00:34:08,893 --> 00:34:13,173 Speaker 3: do more, but this isn't I think Rugby's constantly evolving, 677 00:34:13,453 --> 00:34:15,693 Speaker 3: and it's not the game that we're playing in twenty 678 00:34:15,733 --> 00:34:17,733 Speaker 3: twenty five. Isn't the game that we're playing in twenty twenty. 679 00:34:17,773 --> 00:34:19,813 Speaker 3: It's not the game they're playing in twenty fifteen or 680 00:34:19,813 --> 00:34:22,773 Speaker 3: twenty ten. This is an evolving game. We've seen that 681 00:34:22,853 --> 00:34:25,213 Speaker 3: with the rule changes that they've been implementing around head 682 00:34:25,253 --> 00:34:28,733 Speaker 3: contact in recent times, and the game has changed in 683 00:34:28,773 --> 00:34:32,853 Speaker 3: any number of ways that it is evolving to a 684 00:34:32,973 --> 00:34:36,613 Speaker 3: product where you can do the utmost potentially to try 685 00:34:36,653 --> 00:34:39,733 Speaker 3: and protect players suffering these sort of concussions. 686 00:34:39,813 --> 00:34:42,053 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the one thing that where Rugby needs 687 00:34:42,133 --> 00:34:46,293 Speaker 5: to move is not it's not been in denial, but 688 00:34:46,413 --> 00:34:50,933 Speaker 5: it's not waiting. So Christy and Billy goiiton haad CTE. 689 00:34:51,213 --> 00:34:55,373 Speaker 5: And there's no way of definitively knowing until their brains 690 00:34:55,413 --> 00:34:57,573 Speaker 5: can be examined posts mortem. 691 00:34:57,653 --> 00:34:59,493 Speaker 4: But if they need. 692 00:35:00,293 --> 00:35:02,893 Speaker 5: If anyone who's played the game for a long period, 693 00:35:02,893 --> 00:35:09,093 Speaker 5: particularly a professional level, needs psychiatric or medical support, the 694 00:35:09,253 --> 00:35:11,813 Speaker 5: rugby can be better at wrapping their arms around them 695 00:35:11,853 --> 00:35:15,173 Speaker 5: and providing that, not saying, well, you might have that 696 00:35:15,333 --> 00:35:18,293 Speaker 5: you might not. It might be personality traits, it might 697 00:35:18,373 --> 00:35:22,693 Speaker 5: be other factors. Just provide the help, and I think 698 00:35:22,733 --> 00:35:23,853 Speaker 5: that's where it needs to get to. 699 00:35:24,173 --> 00:35:24,693 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 700 00:35:24,773 --> 00:35:26,973 Speaker 3: Yeah, thoughts with Shan Cresty and his family and friends 701 00:35:27,013 --> 00:35:30,453 Speaker 3: as they prepare a farewellhem at a service on Tuesday. 702 00:35:30,573 --> 00:35:33,133 Speaker 3: Let's move on to other rugby topics and the Black 703 00:35:33,213 --> 00:35:36,293 Speaker 3: Ferns continuing at the World Cup through to the quarterfinals 704 00:35:36,853 --> 00:35:39,653 Speaker 3: with a win over Japan. Pusha Woodman fifty tries in 705 00:35:39,733 --> 00:35:43,213 Speaker 3: her test career, was in retirement a few months ago, 706 00:35:43,333 --> 00:35:45,093 Speaker 3: but I think the Black fans are building quite nicely 707 00:35:45,293 --> 00:35:49,093 Speaker 3: as they prepare for Irelands next week, which is going 708 00:35:49,133 --> 00:35:51,693 Speaker 3: to be the toughest test in Paul play. And we 709 00:35:51,933 --> 00:35:54,733 Speaker 3: hope four big test matches in a row for the 710 00:35:54,813 --> 00:35:56,853 Speaker 3: Black Ferns have changed a few things around. We saw 711 00:35:56,893 --> 00:36:00,613 Speaker 3: Georgia Miller play on the blind overnight against Japan. 712 00:36:01,853 --> 00:36:02,573 Speaker 2: Positive signs. 713 00:36:02,573 --> 00:36:04,373 Speaker 3: I think they're for the Black Ferns in a game 714 00:36:04,493 --> 00:36:06,653 Speaker 3: that Again, these games at World Cups were expected to 715 00:36:06,693 --> 00:36:08,293 Speaker 3: win are often no win situation. 716 00:36:09,453 --> 00:36:11,133 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's quite hard to get a gauge, isn't it. 717 00:36:11,173 --> 00:36:11,853 Speaker 4: In these matches. 718 00:36:11,893 --> 00:36:15,773 Speaker 5: I think they've made mass changes in both games at halftime. 719 00:36:16,173 --> 00:36:19,333 Speaker 5: They've used all, you know, thirty two players, so that's 720 00:36:19,373 --> 00:36:22,333 Speaker 5: positive to get everyone involved from the outset. Yeah, Georgia 721 00:36:22,373 --> 00:36:27,533 Speaker 5: Millis saw her try breakdown, turnover and sprint away to score, which. 722 00:36:27,373 --> 00:36:28,293 Speaker 2: She's playing like a bat. 723 00:36:28,493 --> 00:36:31,013 Speaker 3: Yeah, she's obviously from the sevens program, but she's playing 724 00:36:31,013 --> 00:36:33,333 Speaker 3: as an eight back essentially for the Ferns. 725 00:36:33,453 --> 00:36:33,733 Speaker 4: That's it. 726 00:36:33,853 --> 00:36:39,053 Speaker 5: And teenage was kid Braxton, so Sorrenson McGee three tries. 727 00:36:39,493 --> 00:36:42,013 Speaker 5: She's a bit of a weapon as well. So I 728 00:36:42,093 --> 00:36:44,933 Speaker 5: think Boxers tipped for the Black Ferns. I think that potentially. 729 00:36:45,053 --> 00:36:47,053 Speaker 5: I was taking to our colleague Chris Reeve, who's covering 730 00:36:47,093 --> 00:36:50,653 Speaker 5: the tournament from AFAR. He suggested they're potentially on course 731 00:36:50,733 --> 00:36:54,653 Speaker 5: for France in a quarterfinal. So Island will be a 732 00:36:54,653 --> 00:36:57,293 Speaker 5: big step up, won't And you need that challenge. You 733 00:36:57,333 --> 00:36:58,733 Speaker 5: can't just have runaway matches. 734 00:36:59,013 --> 00:37:00,773 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they lost Island last year. There's gonna be 735 00:37:00,773 --> 00:37:02,173 Speaker 3: a bit between the teeth. You'd hope from the Black 736 00:37:02,213 --> 00:37:05,613 Speaker 3: fans to try and rectify that Island were a bit scratchy. 737 00:37:05,653 --> 00:37:08,813 Speaker 3: I thought overnight against Spain in the game that they 738 00:37:08,853 --> 00:37:11,453 Speaker 3: probably should have won and when comfortably it was forty 739 00:37:11,533 --> 00:37:13,493 Speaker 3: three twenty seven off the top of my heir twenty 740 00:37:13,533 --> 00:37:16,613 Speaker 3: four twelve at half time. So the Black Fans win that. 741 00:37:17,293 --> 00:37:22,853 Speaker 3: Possibly South Africa or France in the quarterfinals. So you know, 742 00:37:22,973 --> 00:37:25,653 Speaker 3: big Test matches in South Africa been the vast improvers 743 00:37:25,693 --> 00:37:27,613 Speaker 3: and women's rugby over the last eighteen months or so. 744 00:37:27,733 --> 00:37:32,293 Speaker 3: They've gone huge upwards trajectory of the last eighteen months. 745 00:37:32,333 --> 00:37:34,213 Speaker 3: So we wait and see that. But big game against 746 00:37:34,253 --> 00:37:40,173 Speaker 3: Ireland next week. Topic number three Wallabies in Argentina Townsville, 747 00:37:41,093 --> 00:37:44,053 Speaker 3: home of the Cowboys. Do you give Argentina a shot 748 00:37:44,133 --> 00:37:46,733 Speaker 3: of going to Townsville and beating the Australians. 749 00:37:47,413 --> 00:37:49,493 Speaker 5: Not sure if they went in Townsville, but I think 750 00:37:49,533 --> 00:37:52,573 Speaker 5: they go. I think they do take a victory and 751 00:37:52,693 --> 00:37:55,053 Speaker 5: that would be pretty consistent with the Pomas, wouldn't it. 752 00:37:55,093 --> 00:37:58,293 Speaker 5: They tend to not hot and cold, but they tend 753 00:37:58,373 --> 00:38:00,533 Speaker 5: to have one performance in them and drop their level. 754 00:38:00,973 --> 00:38:03,653 Speaker 5: Coming off the high of the All Blacks victory. They're 755 00:38:03,653 --> 00:38:06,773 Speaker 5: first in Argentina and history. I think there will be 756 00:38:06,813 --> 00:38:10,533 Speaker 5: a bit of a calm down. There's no reason why 757 00:38:10,613 --> 00:38:13,493 Speaker 5: they can't ride that wave. The Wallabies will be without 758 00:38:13,893 --> 00:38:17,333 Speaker 5: Will Skelton, big big out for them and still nursing 759 00:38:17,893 --> 00:38:21,133 Speaker 5: some other bigs out big outs Tom Wright, who was 760 00:38:21,173 --> 00:38:26,533 Speaker 5: exceptional in their first test in Alice Park. So look, 761 00:38:26,573 --> 00:38:28,253 Speaker 5: there's no reason that Pumas can't win. But I think 762 00:38:28,293 --> 00:38:29,813 Speaker 5: they go one on one in that tour. 763 00:38:30,053 --> 00:38:31,973 Speaker 3: I so speak Australia wins this week in Townsville, but 764 00:38:32,173 --> 00:38:34,093 Speaker 3: next week might be a bit closer as well. I 765 00:38:34,133 --> 00:38:37,573 Speaker 3: mean that's a scenario for this whole Rugby Championship, isn't it. 766 00:38:37,813 --> 00:38:39,973 Speaker 3: There's not a lot between these two sides and it 767 00:38:40,053 --> 00:38:41,373 Speaker 3: might be one on ones from a lot of the 768 00:38:41,693 --> 00:38:44,333 Speaker 3: tours that are going around at the moment. And final topic, 769 00:38:44,533 --> 00:38:46,613 Speaker 3: we started with the shield, We'll end with the shield. 770 00:38:47,213 --> 00:38:50,293 Speaker 3: Waikido's tenure last did what all of seven days? 771 00:38:50,413 --> 00:38:51,773 Speaker 2: I think it was in the end. 772 00:38:53,133 --> 00:38:56,493 Speaker 3: Southland they just love the Rainfley shield. They think back 773 00:38:56,613 --> 00:38:59,213 Speaker 3: about a deck out to go. Plus they beat Canterbury 774 00:38:59,213 --> 00:39:01,613 Speaker 3: in christ Huge in two thousand and nine. I was 775 00:39:01,653 --> 00:39:04,493 Speaker 3: there at Lancaster Bark Slash Jade Stadium whatever it was 776 00:39:04,533 --> 00:39:07,173 Speaker 3: called in those days. Two thousand and nine three Robbie 777 00:39:07,213 --> 00:39:10,453 Speaker 3: Robinson penalties nine three. Cannibry lost that night, then they 778 00:39:10,533 --> 00:39:13,373 Speaker 3: lost in twenty eleven just after the earthquakes, handed the 779 00:39:13,373 --> 00:39:16,373 Speaker 3: shield over to Southland again and now Cannarbury trying to 780 00:39:16,413 --> 00:39:17,653 Speaker 3: get it off Southland this week. 781 00:39:17,733 --> 00:39:20,213 Speaker 2: But what we saw yesterday I thought was magnificent. 782 00:39:20,293 --> 00:39:23,173 Speaker 3: Sheeld rugby in the weet Southland twenty five wake at 783 00:39:23,213 --> 00:39:25,893 Speaker 3: O ten, I think the Moveler's lost their heads a 784 00:39:25,933 --> 00:39:27,453 Speaker 3: little bit in the last twenty minutes. I mean, you 785 00:39:27,493 --> 00:39:30,533 Speaker 3: still have fifteen points down, but we're playing ed lib 786 00:39:30,613 --> 00:39:32,733 Speaker 3: offload footy from about the sixty first minute. 787 00:39:33,533 --> 00:39:34,813 Speaker 2: Well deserve win for Southland. 788 00:39:35,893 --> 00:39:37,973 Speaker 5: And it's an interesting debate to be here because you're 789 00:39:38,013 --> 00:39:40,053 Speaker 5: never going to turn down all blacks coming back. But 790 00:39:41,933 --> 00:39:45,373 Speaker 5: Southland won that when Wacotta brought back four or five 791 00:39:45,453 --> 00:39:48,493 Speaker 5: all blacks and some of them were upstage big time. 792 00:39:48,533 --> 00:39:50,213 Speaker 5: You look at Sean with The's performance. I think he 793 00:39:50,293 --> 00:39:53,893 Speaker 5: got five breakdown turnovers, the most of anyone this season. 794 00:39:54,533 --> 00:39:58,013 Speaker 5: And meanwhile, you know Summer Penny Final got blitz down 795 00:39:58,053 --> 00:40:02,173 Speaker 5: the blind side, beating or Leans up for one of 796 00:40:02,253 --> 00:40:03,213 Speaker 5: Southland's tries. 797 00:40:03,813 --> 00:40:05,013 Speaker 4: Antelina Brown was. 798 00:40:06,773 --> 00:40:13,293 Speaker 5: Barely featured, so I think it did really show what 799 00:40:13,613 --> 00:40:17,373 Speaker 5: the shield still means, you know, And it was just 800 00:40:17,453 --> 00:40:20,493 Speaker 5: a really it was all heart, wasn't it from Southland? 801 00:40:20,573 --> 00:40:23,493 Speaker 5: And but look there were some brilliant moments in that 802 00:40:23,613 --> 00:40:27,573 Speaker 5: that they were technically astute and the second half really 803 00:40:27,653 --> 00:40:30,133 Speaker 5: used the wind to their advantage and never looked like 804 00:40:30,213 --> 00:40:31,013 Speaker 5: being run down. 805 00:40:31,253 --> 00:40:32,053 Speaker 2: No they didn't. 806 00:40:32,093 --> 00:40:33,413 Speaker 3: As soon as they got out to their twenty five 807 00:40:33,413 --> 00:40:35,813 Speaker 3: to ten it felt like that was the game done. 808 00:40:35,893 --> 00:40:38,413 Speaker 3: Fifteen points up that that was enough. I mean, wad 809 00:40:38,413 --> 00:40:40,533 Speaker 3: we were playing into the wind. But Southland I thought 810 00:40:40,653 --> 00:40:43,053 Speaker 3: just played superb shield footage and I really do. I 811 00:40:43,093 --> 00:40:46,613 Speaker 3: think Sean mlle is a really impressive player that maybe 812 00:40:46,653 --> 00:40:48,093 Speaker 3: taking a couple of years to get in his development. 813 00:40:48,133 --> 00:40:49,693 Speaker 2: I was really impressed with them at age group level. 814 00:40:50,133 --> 00:40:52,613 Speaker 3: He looks like a player that is building his career 815 00:40:52,693 --> 00:40:54,373 Speaker 3: quite nicely in terms of some of those you know, 816 00:40:54,453 --> 00:40:56,013 Speaker 3: loose forwards right around the country currently. 817 00:40:56,373 --> 00:41:02,653 Speaker 5: Yeah, real leadership qualities and a huge breakdown prisence, which 818 00:41:02,733 --> 00:41:06,333 Speaker 5: is incredibly valuable when you look at what do perceived 819 00:41:06,413 --> 00:41:10,013 Speaker 5: carefe brought to the Hurricanes this year. So yeah, he's 820 00:41:10,053 --> 00:41:13,493 Speaker 5: one and that the Hondas you know, he's one of 821 00:41:13,533 --> 00:41:15,853 Speaker 5: those young guns that's really come on for them and 822 00:41:16,333 --> 00:41:19,533 Speaker 5: has made a massive impact for South Fond. I guess 823 00:41:19,573 --> 00:41:21,893 Speaker 5: the challenge now, isn't it as why I could have 824 00:41:22,293 --> 00:41:24,693 Speaker 5: found out when you have a couple of big days 825 00:41:24,853 --> 00:41:27,773 Speaker 5: of celebrations and a couple of trainings and then you've 826 00:41:27,813 --> 00:41:29,653 Speaker 5: got to defend the shield, it's not so easy. 827 00:41:29,893 --> 00:41:30,533 Speaker 2: No, it is not. 828 00:41:30,893 --> 00:41:34,173 Speaker 3: And we look forward to hopefully Canterbury hoisting that around 829 00:41:34,213 --> 00:41:36,573 Speaker 3: about an hour out from kick off at Eden Park. 830 00:41:36,413 --> 00:41:39,893 Speaker 2: On Saturday, help the stacks right Okay that it has 831 00:41:39,933 --> 00:41:40,613 Speaker 2: been Rugby Direx. 832 00:41:40,733 --> 00:41:42,133 Speaker 3: We might pop back into your feet a bit later 833 00:41:42,213 --> 00:41:44,253 Speaker 3: on in the week as well as we build up 834 00:41:44,293 --> 00:41:46,093 Speaker 3: to this big Test match. But thanks to Larson Bars 835 00:41:46,093 --> 00:41:48,973 Speaker 3: English and thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and your 836 00:41:49,013 --> 00:41:50,293 Speaker 3: business to a higher level. 837 00:41:54,493 --> 00:41:57,373 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks B listen live on air 838 00:41:57,613 --> 00:42:00,253 Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you 839 00:42:00,373 --> 00:42:02,773 Speaker 1: go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.