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Speaker 1: How much. Yet another gent Taylor has posted a huge

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Speaker 1: profit its meridian energy up four times what it was,

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Speaker 1: more than four times what it was last year. We'll

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Speaker 1: have a chat to the CEO, Neil Barklay after six

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Speaker 1: about that. The huddle standing by hither. My issue with

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Speaker 1: the Independent Infrastructure Commission is that politics and ideology will

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Speaker 1: just enter through those who are hired. We only have

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Speaker 1: to look at the other commissions, like the Human Rights

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Speaker 1: Commission and even the Reserve Bank. You know what, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: that's actually a really good point. Thank you for making it.

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Speaker 1: We will talk to the huddle about it very shortly.

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Speaker 1: Right now, it's twenty four away from six. Now it

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Speaker 1: looks like there is reasonable trouble with NCEA. This is

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Speaker 1: the first year that students must pass the corequisites of reading, writing,

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Speaker 1: and maths in order to get the NCEA qualification, but

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Speaker 1: as many as fifty four percent have already failed the

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Speaker 1: maths exam, as more than thirty thousand kids. Kate Gainsford

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Speaker 1: is the Secondary Principle's Council Chair and the principal at

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Speaker 1: Altier College High Kate, No.

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Speaker 2: How are you this afternoon?

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Speaker 1: Very well? Thank you mate. Now, Kate, this is not

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Speaker 1: a trial. If these kids fail, can they actually get NCEEA?

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Speaker 2: That it can because there are repeated opportunities to gain

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Speaker 2: the literacy and numerous the standards, both by the online

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Speaker 2: through the online external and in twenty four and twenty

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Speaker 2: five the extra standards that are made available from an

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Speaker 2: approved list from NZQA in the ministry. So it's not yet.

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Speaker 2: So there are other opportunities.

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Speaker 1: So are you saying basically they have to either sit

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Speaker 1: the exam again or they have to do something else

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Speaker 1: to make this up in order to get these the

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Speaker 1: credits that they have failed.

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Speaker 2: Well, the idea was behind it that there would be

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Speaker 2: multiple opportunities for someone to gain these corequisites so that

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Speaker 2: it's not just a one shot and then you have

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Speaker 2: to repeat the year kind of experience. So originally my

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Speaker 2: understanding is the idea was that students could switch them

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Speaker 2: at external when they were ready. But mza's provision of

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Speaker 2: materials doesn't really suit that. They haven't got multiple kinds

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Speaker 2: of assessments ready to have multiple goals at it except

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Speaker 2: for the two shots during the year. So yes, there

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Speaker 2: are opportunities to reach it, not the same exam. They

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Speaker 2: have to rebuild the exam, so that it's not a

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Speaker 2: repeat experience of the same questions.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I mean, these are staggering numbers. What

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Speaker 1: is going on here, Kate? That these kids and so

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Speaker 1: many of them are not learning the things they're expected

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Speaker 1: to have learned and know.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think there's a couple of things. One is

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Speaker 2: that there's a gap in the policy lag and the

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Speaker 2: practice lag between setting a standard that is being put

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Speaker 2: into operation through these online exams, and the clear acknowledgment

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Speaker 2: that the government has wanted to put in a lot

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Speaker 2: of professional learning well ahead of time, starting at year

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Speaker 2: zero around literacy and unracy that they're starting with now

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Speaker 2: what we've got as young people in our schools now

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Speaker 2: who haven't had that. So there's secondary schools are in

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Speaker 2: the really difficult position of trying to catch up students

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Speaker 2: to meet the standard when they haven't had the provision

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Speaker 2: of all of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't end your position, but how

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Speaker 1: badly have failed these kids that they don't know this stuff?

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Speaker 2: Well, I am a determined optimist in this space, and

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Speaker 2: that I think schools are bending over backwards to really

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Speaker 2: make up the ground in secondary schools and the multiple

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Speaker 2: opportunities have to be part of that. But I do

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Speaker 2: think there's another kind of issue attached to this. We

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Speaker 2: have to be really clear when it comes to the

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Speaker 2: mechanics of the actual assessments that when we are assessing numeracy,

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Speaker 2: if the student is managing to get all of the

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Speaker 2: calculations right are either numbers, which to me is what

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Speaker 2: numeracy is, then there shouldn't be any room for someone

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Speaker 2: to not get that numeracy standard if they just haven't

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Speaker 2: been to put into words i e. Literacy, English fluency,

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Speaker 2: the explanation for their working. I think we've got to

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Speaker 2: look at that because at the moment there is a

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Speaker 2: possible anomaly that we could see where a year thirteen

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Speaker 2: or student doing Level three could possibly gain Level three

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Speaker 2: NCI statistics and fail a level one numeracy standard. Now

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Speaker 2: that's just silly. So we've got some more work to do.

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Speaker 2: I think with NZQA about understanding the tool that is

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Speaker 2: being used. It's not necessarily at the moment doing the

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Speaker 2: job that we intended it to do, which is to

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Speaker 2: really make an a sense.

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Speaker 1: And that's fair enough. I take that. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: might be good at maths, but you may be really

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Speaker 1: bad at writing that sentence. Out in English. But how

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Speaker 1: much of this can we split it out and say

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Speaker 1: this proportion of it is the way that we're asking

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Speaker 1: them to do the exam, and this proportion of it

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Speaker 1: is that they don't know what they need to know.

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Speaker 1: Do we know?

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Speaker 2: No, we don't, No, we don't. And that's part of

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Speaker 2: the problem is that this needs to be you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of work still needs to be done with

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Speaker 2: NZQA around making sure that the tool actually can separate

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Speaker 2: those two problems out and eliminate the one about numeracy

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Speaker 2: versus literacy so that we know what we're dealing with.

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Speaker 2: Because you can see in the steps that the number

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Speaker 2: four people gaining the numeracy is significantly lower than the literacy. Well,

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Speaker 2: if that's because you're assessing literacy and numeracy, then you've

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Speaker 2: kind of missing the mark of it in the use

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Speaker 2: of the assessment tool, so you're blurring what this information

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Speaker 2: can tell you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Kate, listen, thank you for talking us, so I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Kate Gains for Secondary Principles Council Chair,

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Speaker 1: also Altier College Principle. For more from Heather duplessy Ellen

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