1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Ever do for ze Ellen now on Gaza. Our government 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: has not gone as far as the UK in threatening 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: to recognize the state of Palestine. Instead, they've signed a 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: declaration saying they are willing to consider it. Here's Winston Peters. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: New Zealand has consistently said that we're willing to recognize 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 2: Palestine and that is a question of when, not if. 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 2: But we do need to see progress on some of 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: the fundamental issues relating to a Palestine state's legitimacy and viability. 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: John Minto is the co chair of the Palestine Solidarity 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: networking with US. 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 3: Hello, John, I'll kill the heather. 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: Is this move from kir Starmer actually going to make 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: a difference? 14 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 3: Well, no, I don't think it will. I think recognizing 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 3: Palestinian state is something which we should do, all Western 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 3: countries should have done a long time ago. But it 17 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 3: won't bring peace in the Middle East. And it's important 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: to say that. I think, you know what's happened over 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: the last the last thirty or forty years is the 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: public opinion of Palestinians and I think as Raedi's that 21 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: are genuinely looking for a solution is to say, look, 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 3: two states is not going to work. It should be 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 3: instead a single state where everybody has equal rights. And 24 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: I think that's what what Israel's done, of course, is 25 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: they've made it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a 26 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 3: Palestinian state to be formed, because in the Palestinian territory 27 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 3: of the West Bank, they've built over two hundred illegal 28 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: as Raeti settlements of Palestinian land, and so all Palestinians 29 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 3: have got left as a piece of Swiss cheese. So 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: you've got all of these Israeli settlements on their land 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 3: connected by roads, and we're roads which Palestinians are not 32 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: allowed to drive on, and so Palestinians are left with 33 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 3: just these tiny little pockets of land, as I say, 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: like a piece of Swiss cheese. 35 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: Doesn't it strike you as odd to be using something 36 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: like a state, which I don't feel like it should 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: be used like a bargaining chip like this is quite 38 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: a bizarre thing to do, isn't it. 39 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: Well. I'm pleased have said that because when I first 40 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 3: heard it, he's threatening Israel with a Palestine in state. 41 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: That is absolutely bizarre. So I quite agree. I agree 42 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 3: with your characterization. 43 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: Okay, now you know what we've observed and we've been 44 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: talking about this actually in the office a bit lately. 45 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: We have not seen it. Like what is happening in 46 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: Gaza is more horrific than at any time since since 47 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: Hamas launched the attacks on Israel. But at the time 48 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: there were all these protests, and now the protests have 49 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: dried up. Why don't you people protest about this anymore? 50 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 3: There are protests going on here that every single week 51 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 3: in everything seems around New Zealand, everywhere down Queen Street 52 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: in christ Church in Well they are and. 53 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: In the odd days, back in the old days, like 54 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: last year, there were all those big protests that were 55 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: on the domain and so he's still doing that. 56 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're still happening at this time. I mean, they 57 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 3: haven't had the huge numbers they hit earlier on but 58 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 3: that definitely they're still there and the visibility of this 59 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 3: issue is really high. Oh no, I think, well, I 60 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 3: just think it's inevitable and I've been surprised that that 61 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 3: they've gone on as long as they have. But what's 62 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 3: happening now is that people that are increasing in size 63 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: because people can see the horrific, just the horror of 64 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: what's happening before our eyes. The vicious cruelty of the 65 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: Israeli occupation, and it's something I've never seen in my lifetime, 66 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 3: and so many of us older people, you know, we 67 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: look back and you know, I mean, it's been horrific 68 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: for Palestinians all the way through, but in fact what's 69 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: happening now is just beyond imagination. 70 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: John, Thanks for your time, John Minto, Palestine Solidarity Network 71 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: coachib 72 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy, Allen Drive, listen live to 73 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 74 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.