Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
Speaker 1: ed B.
Speaker 2: You are not ah sax bar sax. You're my sax bomb.
Speaker 2: You can give it to you do. Come along, shack, Sack.
Speaker 3: You're my sax bomb.
Speaker 2: You can turn from here on. Sham me up, Sack Sack,
Speaker 2: You're my sack. You can't give you to do. Come along,
Speaker 2: shack and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3: I'm Tim Beveridge and you can give us a call
Speaker 3: anytime during this one hundred and eighty ten eighty. And
Speaker 3: we have a new guest for the art Extiosis thinking
Speaker 3: I'm not sure for quite the right selection. But of course,
Speaker 3: if you do want to have children, often the starting
Speaker 3: point is to be a bit of a sex bomb.
Speaker 3: But I can't think of any other way to to
Speaker 3: sick way out of that song. But we have a
Speaker 3: new guest on the show and he is a fertility
Speaker 3: expert and his name is Dr Simon mcdawson.
Speaker 2: Simon good, how are you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, good day, good, how are you? I don't think
Speaker 4: I've ever had that that entrance before, but I'll take it.
Speaker 3: Yes, actually maybe you should take it. It's just like
Speaker 3: here he is he's the man, he's the fertility expert. Anyway,
Speaker 3: maybe we should probably be a little bit more serious
Speaker 3: about that. But Tay, look, just before we get into it,
Speaker 3: we're gonna have a chat about fertility among other things.
Speaker 3: But if you're listening eight hundred eighty t and eighty,
Speaker 3: if you have any questions, here's a chance to talk
Speaker 3: to an expert. If you've just got a simple question
Speaker 3: about whether it's about how you prepare yourself to conceive
Speaker 3: or to help conceive, or whatever, any questions around fertility,
Speaker 3: then we'd love to hear from you on eight hundred
Speaker 3: eighty ten eighty.
Speaker 2: But actually I thought, just because your first.
Speaker 3: Time on the show, Simon, what's your bag baby, tell
Speaker 3: us about what you do and how you got there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, thanks having on the show. So I grew
Speaker 4: up in Hamilton, South Hamilton, went down to went down
Speaker 4: to Icago, did my degree down there, ended up up
Speaker 4: in Wellington when overseas came back. When overseas came back,
Speaker 4: spent some time Ossie and England's doing a bit more
Speaker 4: training and then I've been back in the back in
Speaker 4: Wellington for about a little bit more than a decade now,
Speaker 4: how much.
Speaker 3: Back and forth was was was training from university to
Speaker 3: med school to different expertises.
Speaker 4: Oh, the early stuff was probably more you know, just
Speaker 4: getting out there oe type stuff. So sort of junior doctor,
Speaker 4: went to went to Melbourne and then sort of made
Speaker 4: my way to England and you know, did a bit
Speaker 4: of traveling and stuff and then and then sort of
Speaker 4: came back and got into specialty training and then then
Speaker 4: the travel from there was more more work related. But
Speaker 4: it's nice. You know, it's good to travel. You sort
Speaker 4: of want to take those opportunities and you know, spend
Speaker 4: a year at overseas it's quite quite nice. But you know,
Speaker 4: was going to come home, you know, mchewey.
Speaker 3: And obviously you love Wellington because you're living there. One
Speaker 3: would hope that that's the answer.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I do. I do. I spent my first
Speaker 4: year of med school, the second part of my med
Speaker 4: school here and I must have been I fell in
Speaker 4: love with the city and you know where it can
Speaker 4: be amazing and sometimes not so good, but that's it's
Speaker 4: a good city, got character.
Speaker 3: Can't on a good day, you can't beat it. Actually,
Speaker 3: just before we get into how you got into a
Speaker 3: step into fertility, how what was the most enjoyable part
Speaker 3: of the world for you to practice medicine, and what
Speaker 3: did you and I guess from a medical point of view,
Speaker 3: obviously let's forget the party scene in a particular town. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but what was the what was the best place to
Speaker 3: practice medicine for you? Let's leave Wellington out.
Speaker 4: Leave Wellington out. I look London, sort of an East London.
Speaker 4: I worked a little bit the mainy sort of Loking
Speaker 4: locuming and emergency department and stuff. And I remember, I
Speaker 4: remember there was a poster on the wall of the
Speaker 4: ed which was a malaria treatment chart, and I thought
Speaker 4: that was I thought, oh my gosh, you must get
Speaker 4: that like once every decade, and they were like, oh,
Speaker 4: we get you know, one a week. So I think
Speaker 4: probably London was my favorite because you actually got so yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, it was such a you know, melting pot
Speaker 4: of people, and yeah, it was a really interesting place
Speaker 4: to work. You saw a lot of pathology you wouldn't
Speaker 4: expect to see in London. Yeah, I didn't expect.
Speaker 3: Actually on the malaria things, well, we won't delve on
Speaker 3: dwell on this topic, but that what did that mean?
Speaker 3: You have to be immunized or something, because that is
Speaker 3: kind of contagious. But I don't know it's oh.
Speaker 4: I think it's let's passed on, you know, mosquitoes and stuff.
Speaker 4: So I don't think it's sort of contagious.
Speaker 2: No, but blood to blood. Yeah that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's right. Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Okay, I know how did you get into
Speaker 3: you know, how did you get from East London Eds
Speaker 3: to fertility?
Speaker 4: So I decided sort of quite early on that I
Speaker 4: wanted to do O G. I kind of I really
Speaker 4: liked the you know, sort.
Speaker 3: Of ecology by the way, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's right. Yeah, Yeah, that's right. And I think
Speaker 4: a lot of R doctors we we sort of get
Speaker 4: into it through eb cterrics, you know, that's kind of
Speaker 4: the exciting part of it. I was always keen to subspecialize,
Speaker 4: and there's a few different subspecialties, and fertility just kind
Speaker 4: of made sense. It had a mixed sure of physiology
Speaker 4: and surgery, you know, and it it just sort of
Speaker 4: ticked all the boxes, I suppose, And you know, I'm
Speaker 4: dealing with, you know, people that are really intelligent and
Speaker 4: they know a lot about what's happening, and and you know,
Speaker 4: you can really sort of make a difference. It's it's
Speaker 4: it's a you know, it's a part of medicine where
Speaker 4: you know, you you get these outcomes. You know, people
Speaker 4: have a family that which they may not have got
Speaker 4: if you went there and or if our team wasn't there,
Speaker 4: And you know, that's a it's a pretty satisfying area.
Speaker 4: We can be bloody said as well, but it's you know,
Speaker 4: it's a really good, fascinating area and a really you.
Speaker 3: Know, medicine of course must have it's amazingly uplifting moments.
Speaker 3: But also medicine sometimes you know, there isn't the answer
Speaker 3: for people, isn't it.
Speaker 2: So you you're.
Speaker 3: Really at the you're really at the call face of
Speaker 3: disappointment as well sometimes.
Speaker 4: Of course, Yeah, I think that's right, and I think
Speaker 4: that's something you learn as you become older. Certainly I
Speaker 4: have in medicine, you you know, having a sort of
Speaker 4: being at peace with you don't know and what you
Speaker 4: can't fix it. Certainly as a more junior doctor, I
Speaker 4: probably struggled over that, but now I'm sort of you
Speaker 4: brave enough to say I don't know and I'm not
Speaker 4: sure what's going on, and you know, humans a complicated.
Speaker 2: It's a funny sense.
Speaker 3: The thing with fertility and we had my wife and
Speaker 3: I went through three miscarriages I think before we had
Speaker 3: our family, and then all of a sudden, I mean,
Speaker 3: second child came along far too early, but anyway, which
Speaker 3: is great, but it's funny. As a guy, I didn't
Speaker 3: actually I remember when we had the second loss because
Speaker 3: it was early on and I didn't feel anything.
Speaker 2: It was weird.
Speaker 3: And then I called my mom up from the hospital
Speaker 3: and I told her what had happened, and I completely
Speaker 3: broke down, and it came from nowhere, and.
Speaker 2: It was a funny.
Speaker 3: It's a weird thing to for people haven't been through
Speaker 3: it to understand.
Speaker 2: I don't even know why, isn't it funny?
Speaker 3: It's literally I was calm and let's get we better
Speaker 3: go to the hospital and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: And then I call up mum and say hey, by
Speaker 3: the way, and I couldn't complete my sentence, and it's
Speaker 3: it's a it's a strange grief that you can't understand,
Speaker 3: isn't it.
Speaker 4: It is? And I think you know the triggers, you
Speaker 4: can the sort of triggering things, and it might be
Speaker 4: you know, just talking about it and and you know guys,
Speaker 4: you know, perhaps more than woman probably just avoid those
Speaker 4: conversations and you know they come at a cost, you know,
Speaker 4: where it all comes out in a mad rush. You know,
Speaker 4: I think talking about experiences and and you know guys
Speaker 4: as well, and I think I think it is fair
Speaker 4: to say guys to probably you know, don't vocalize it
Speaker 4: as much as we should. Yeah, so no, it's I mean,
Speaker 4: it's sometimes you need something close you don't have a
Speaker 4: chat to really.
Speaker 2: And it's quite you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, now I mentioned now I still get emotional
Speaker 3: thinking about it, but you know we've had a happy
Speaker 3: ending with a couple of wonder lovely girls. But now
Speaker 3: just tell us, because you are one of your specialties
Speaker 3: you do.
Speaker 2: Somebody to do with sub it's a type of.
Speaker 3: Laparoscopic surgery that you also do as well. Does that
Speaker 3: mean that is that in connection with fertility and increased
Speaker 3: the ability to create better outcomes through surgery as well
Speaker 3: or what tell us.
Speaker 2: About that question?
Speaker 4: Question?
Speaker 2: Tell us about.
Speaker 4: That I got there. It does. I mean fertility. We've
Speaker 4: got this amazing treatment which is IVF and it's and
Speaker 4: it's very good, not not you know, not a full
Speaker 4: proof treatment, but it's a very good treatment for all
Speaker 4: types of fertility issues. But you know, fertility surgery still
Speaker 4: is a big part of what we do if we
Speaker 4: can restore fertility, if we can if we can get
Speaker 4: someone fertile for all of their children, not just sort
Speaker 4: of you know, I V each time, that's always a
Speaker 4: more desirable goal. You need to take into the counter
Speaker 4: age and other aspects. So now I do you're quite
Speaker 4: a bit of surgery and to be trust, very common
Speaker 4: cause of infertility. It doesn't always cause infertility, but it
Speaker 4: is a common cause of infertility. So a lot of
Speaker 4: the surgery do is around that serve.
Speaker 3: Involved broadly speaking, because what is endomor indoms.
Speaker 4: Where the it's where the inside lining of the uteriss
Speaker 4: grows on the outside, and it can cause inflammation, scarring, pain,
Speaker 4: It can distort the anatomy, you know, it's like glue.
Speaker 4: Everything gets stuck together, and those power organs that the
Speaker 4: ovaries and tubes shouldn't be sort of moving gently in
Speaker 4: the know, the wash of the ocean, you know, like
Speaker 4: sort of seaweed, and also can create a very inflammatory environment.
Speaker 4: And so enderbitrisis is incredibly inflammatory and affects all part
Speaker 4: of the fertility process. That the egg getting to the tube,
Speaker 4: the tube getting the egg getting fertilized by the sperm,
Speaker 4: the sperm getting to the egg, and then the ember
Speaker 4: are getting down the tube. So you know, depending on
Speaker 4: how bad it is, it may affect it in different ways. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but it's you know, it's a very common problem, and
Speaker 4: it may be you know, there may be co problems,
Speaker 4: there may be other issues, but for many patients, that
Speaker 4: is their only issue.
Speaker 3: So I have a suspicion that the answer to this
Speaker 3: question is what's more more straightforward than I want to suggest,
Speaker 3: But we are having declining fertility rates. Is that, broadly speaking,
Speaker 3: just because we're all having kids later or there are
Speaker 3: there many other issues that you can paid a broader
Speaker 3: picture with that. When it comes to fertility, I.
Speaker 4: Think it's a I think you know, there's lots of
Speaker 4: different reasons for it. It's a big issue. I was
Speaker 4: at a conference conference recently in the Philippines and this
Speaker 4: was a big part of the talk there, and a
Speaker 4: lot of a lot of the Southeast Asian countries have
Speaker 4: got incredibly low fertility rates. So you know, we all
Speaker 4: need to be having two point one or two point
Speaker 4: two children to maintain the population, and in countries like
Speaker 4: South Korea they're down at point point eight to eight,
Speaker 4: you know, really, you know, I think tai one was
Speaker 4: the lowest at point eight seven. Japan's been low for
Speaker 4: a long time, one point one point three. So yeah,
Speaker 4: it is a big issue. And you know, always reflect
Speaker 4: on sort of movies in the seventies eighties, and it
Speaker 4: was always like overpopulation and you know, not enough resources,
Speaker 4: and it seems like the opposite has happened. We're actually
Speaker 4: you know, struggling to maintain our economies by lack of populations.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, yeah, I carry on, no, carry on.
Speaker 4: So I think there's lots of factors. I think it's
Speaker 4: you know, people are having kids later, people are more educated,
Speaker 4: you know, gender imbalances, they don't want to you know,
Speaker 4: you know, woman taking time out to have children put
Speaker 4: them lower down the you know that sort of chain
Speaker 4: or sort of you know hierarchy of going up that
Speaker 4: chain cost you know, having kids as expensive, fertility treatments
Speaker 4: expensive and reduce family size. You know. I think I
Speaker 4: always remember I'm the I'm the youngest of three and
Speaker 4: my mum was twenty nine when she had me, and
Speaker 4: she was like the oldest one in the hospital in Hamilton.
Speaker 2: And pretty chicken.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know. And I've got three kids and my
Speaker 4: wife was thirty when we had our first, so you know,
Speaker 4: it's a total reversal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what about the basics sperm counts. I remember when
Speaker 3: we were going through we had fertility treatment for our
Speaker 3: first and one of the facts that came out forgetting
Speaker 3: my own sperm count and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: No want to.
Speaker 3: Overshare, but historically speaking, I think I read somewhere that
Speaker 3: sperm counts on average are way way down.
Speaker 2: Is that actually right compared to like post.
Speaker 4: War Yeah, I think there is. There's been quite a
Speaker 4: lot of reports out about that, and you know, it's
Speaker 4: probably a bunch of things. I think there's a lot
Speaker 4: more testing done than I've come back, So I think
Speaker 4: I do wonder. I do sort of wonder if that
Speaker 4: sort of plays into it. I've got a lot more information,
Speaker 4: but you know, it's probably to do with, you know,
Speaker 4: stuff in our environment. There's something called indign denstructors like
Speaker 4: plastics that can affect all different parts of health, and
Speaker 4: they probably affect our fertility health as well. So I
Speaker 4: don't know a lot about why, but I think that
Speaker 4: is a common area of concern. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a layman under thinking that after a
Speaker 3: war there's this sort of biological need to reproduce or something,
Speaker 3: and maybe that played a part of it. But I'm
Speaker 3: making that completely up just as my own.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's interesting, you know why there was such
Speaker 4: a baby boom in the fifties and stuff, you know,
Speaker 4: box of shorts.
Speaker 3: I mean, that is part of it, isn't it. You
Speaker 3: If guys, if you, if you're talking to the mail
Speaker 3: in the in the equation, is that still the advice?
Speaker 3: It's like, what do you wear? Boxes or briefs? Get
Speaker 3: rid of the briefs, get into the boxes, give the boy.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't. Some of those things become a
Speaker 4: little bit of eban myth, I say, I think, and
Speaker 4: I must have better. I don't inquire about people's underwear.
Speaker 3: I was given some advice to actually the person I
Speaker 3: won't say who it was, but she was fantastic. But
Speaker 3: she she said, look, we don't know too much about this,
Speaker 3: but probably wouldn't hurt.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't hurt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. A lot of
Speaker 4: this stuff is around that that it wouldn't hurt, you know,
Speaker 4: sort of removing potential barriers rather than us having extremely
Speaker 4: strong evidence of benefits. I don't. I always think about cyclists,
Speaker 4: you know, people that come in cycling, and you think, well,
Speaker 4: they're sitting on their testicles and they must get pretty
Speaker 4: pretty pretty hot. But I don't know of any studies
Speaker 4: to show cyclists have more infertility really that I'm aware of. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I not. There may be, but not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 4: But it'd be a very difficult study to run, wouldn't it.
Speaker 4: But I think it's about those things are small, and
Speaker 4: when you're looking at having a baby, you just, I
Speaker 4: guess you just want to do every little thing thing
Speaker 4: you can do which doesn't have a huge impact on
Speaker 4: the way you're managing your life. So you know, maybe
Speaker 4: trying to keep the testicles a bit cooler is not
Speaker 4: a bad idea. We know that some people, some men
Speaker 4: can have varicacials, which are sort of dilated veins at
Speaker 4: the top of the testicle, and we think that may
Speaker 4: impact on on the testacles and the sperm in terms
Speaker 4: of heat. You know, therese more hot blood beer, so
Speaker 4: that you know, does lead into that same sort of
Speaker 4: discussion around you know, underwear boxes versus briefs.
Speaker 3: But boxes now because they look better. I think we've
Speaker 3: got used to saying, you know, because we've seen Granddad
Speaker 3: and the briefs and it's like, no whatever, whatever avoids that. Look,
Speaker 3: I'm going with the boxes.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm with you you, okay.
Speaker 3: Well, are there things that in New Zealand we because
Speaker 3: I think we might be short of a few vital
Speaker 3: sort of minerals from what I understand, do the supplements
Speaker 3: make a difference?
Speaker 2: And if so?
Speaker 3: And actually we can talk about Obviously I'm a bloke,
Speaker 3: so I'm focused on blokes things. But let's face it,
Speaker 3: as the women who have the babies, what are the
Speaker 3: things that couples can do diet wise or supplement wise
Speaker 3: or anything that can you know, they want to have
Speaker 3: a want to have a child. Is there are there
Speaker 3: things they can be doing which are going to smooth
Speaker 3: the path.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good question. Look, I think that I'm
Speaker 4: quite pragmatic about this, and you know, you couldn't sort
Speaker 4: of take the approach of no alcohol, no this, no,
Speaker 4: that cut it all out. And perhaps that is, you know,
Speaker 4: the safest thing to do. But I don't think we
Speaker 4: need to take all of those fun things out of
Speaker 4: our lives, you know, having a glass of wine, you know,
Speaker 4: having a cup of coffee. Just go for it. You know,
Speaker 4: there's no evidence that that sensible intake of things like
Speaker 4: you know, alcohol and coffee is going to you know,
Speaker 4: mental toe of fertility. I think, you know, don't smoke.
Speaker 4: That's an easy one, you know, smoking and vaping as well.
Speaker 4: Vaping seems to be the new smoking. We'll certainly that
Speaker 4: sort we see and and we know that that we'll
Speaker 4: have an impact on fertility. You know when we take
Speaker 4: when there's been studies to show that the eggs are
Speaker 4: within a follicle on the ovary, and when they take
Speaker 4: out the fluid from the from the follicle, we can
Speaker 4: actually encounter, you know, see some of those smoking toxins
Speaker 4: in there, which is kind of when you think about it.
Speaker 3: That which what'd say that again.
Speaker 4: So follicles a little cyst on the ovary and that's
Speaker 4: where the where the egg resides. So when when it ovulates,
Speaker 4: the follicle bursts and the egg comes out. So when
Speaker 4: we're doing IVF and we stimulate the ovaries, we have
Speaker 4: a whole bunch of follicles come about so we actually
Speaker 4: suck the fluid out of the out of those little cysts,
Speaker 4: out of those little follicles, and hopefully get the egg.
Speaker 4: But you can actually sort of analyze the fluid and
Speaker 4: and sort of see what's there. And there's been studies
Speaker 4: shown that you know, cigarette toxins are in that, so
Speaker 4: it's you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Well if actually that would instantly put me off vaping,
Speaker 3: if I was a woman and thinking of because I mean,
Speaker 3: you've just given such I mean it sounds almost makes
Speaker 3: me cross my legs, isn't it. But we're talking about
Speaker 3: a tiny microscopic level.
Speaker 2: But it's there. You go, there's science for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's exactly. It's kind of it's kind of
Speaker 4: crazy when you think about it that way. Supplements, I
Speaker 4: again take a very pragmatic approach there. I think there
Speaker 4: are no fertility superfoods. I mean, I think for millennia
Speaker 4: people have said you should eat this, you shouldn't eat that.
Speaker 4: I think if you've got a vaguely healthy, balanced diet,
Speaker 4: then that is fine. I don't think that a multi
Speaker 4: vitamin there's no evidence that it's helpful for fertility. Lots
Speaker 4: of people do it. I don't never want to make
Speaker 4: anyone feel silly about what they're doing. They go crazy,
Speaker 4: go for it, but I think, you know, just eating
Speaker 4: a sensible, healthy diet is enough for men. There is
Speaker 4: some evidence that antioxidants for them and it and easin
Speaker 4: is helpful if men.
Speaker 2: Is selenium one of them.
Speaker 4: I don't know much about that. I'm afraid I couldn't.
Speaker 3: I was told about that we had a we had
Speaker 3: an insufficiency of selenium in our soils or something.
Speaker 4: So yeah, well I think maybe, I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 4: think that's right. But you know, to sort of connect
Speaker 4: that to improving someone's fertility is it's there's a lot between,
Speaker 4: you know, those two points to actually make a strong connection.
Speaker 4: We know that for men having IVF, where they have
Speaker 4: a sort of low spim counc or low motility, then
Speaker 4: antioxidants may be helpful. And I think people have extrapolated
Speaker 4: from that, well it might help us get pregnant at home,
Speaker 4: and there isn't evidence to support that. But again, go
Speaker 4: for it, you know, Okay, yeah, no harm.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're going to take a break now. If you've
Speaker 3: got any questions for Simon McDowell, Doctor Som McDonell, he's
Speaker 3: a fertility expert.
Speaker 2: And you've got any.
Speaker 3: Questions, even if you're asking for a friend, then we'd
Speaker 3: love to hear from you. On eight hundred eighty ten eighty,
Speaker 3: we're going to continue having a chat about the best
Speaker 3: way you can prepare yourself for having a baby, getting
Speaker 3: pregnant being the first stage of it. Give us a
Speaker 3: call eight hundred eighty ten eighty And as I say,
Speaker 3: the text is nine two nine two, The lines are open.
Speaker 3: It's twenty six past five News Talks d B.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, there we go.
Speaker 3: I think that is I think this is sexual Healing
Speaker 3: by Marvin Gay, isn't it, Joseph, Yes, that's correct. We're
Speaker 3: talking to fertility and yes, that is possibly the most
Speaker 3: common way of conceiving these days, but we are if
Speaker 3: you don't if it's not necessarily the only way, And
Speaker 3: that's why we're having a chat with Simon mcdoal, fertility expert.
Speaker 3: I think we're gonna have to next time you're on
Speaker 3: the show, Simon, we're gonna just to keep on rolling
Speaker 3: out the sort of smooth you know, let's get it
Speaker 3: on sort of tunes. I think, hey, how much does
Speaker 3: stress pay pay a negative or non part in conceiving.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good it's a common question we get asked,
Speaker 4: and and it's and it's quite a I mean, we
Speaker 4: can't measure stress, and and I can't if I say, hey,
Speaker 4: just stop stressing, that's kind of the most un helpful
Speaker 4: comment you can make. So I think that, you know,
Speaker 4: I think stress is not good for us for lots
Speaker 4: of different reasons. But it's very difficult to manage. You know,
Speaker 4: if someone's you know, worried they're not getting pregnant because
Speaker 4: of their stressful job, well stop working, and then you
Speaker 4: don't have money to pay the bills, so then it
Speaker 4: becomes stressful. So I think that we just have to
Speaker 4: manage those things as much as we can. I certainly
Speaker 4: would never say to someone I think you're having miscarriage
Speaker 4: or struggling because of stress. You know, I had one
Speaker 4: patient once tell me. If one more person tells me
Speaker 4: just go on holiday, that's what worked for us, I'm
Speaker 4: going to stab them. And you know, sometimes I think
Speaker 4: we you know, even when we try and hop out
Speaker 4: our friends and family that are struggling to say, look,
Speaker 4: you just got to stop worrying about it. You know,
Speaker 4: when we stop thinking about it that's when it happened. Look,
Speaker 4: I think there's people and war zones around the world
Speaker 4: getting pregnant every day, you know, And I think stress
Speaker 4: is something we just have to manage and avoid. But
Speaker 4: I would resist putting an element of blame to it,
Speaker 4: if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: I think actually I've got a text here just saying
Speaker 3: does And I wonder if this ties into who knows?
Speaker 3: But it seems that here's the question, does having your
Speaker 3: first baby make it easier to conceive the second? Because
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean I can only go from our
Speaker 3: example is that first child was you know, a journey.
Speaker 3: Second child was upon us before we knew it, And
Speaker 3: I just I just wondered if there is any biological,
Speaker 3: physiological reason that once you had a child.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a question I've been asked a number of times,
Speaker 4: and I don't know of any sort of scientific answer
Speaker 4: for that. I think that you know, if you've been
Speaker 4: trying to get pregnant for twelve months, you know, compared
Speaker 4: to thirty six months, well the person that's been having
Speaker 4: unprotected six for thirty six months will have more pregnancies
Speaker 4: than the person here has twelve. So I think the
Speaker 4: more and more and more people try, I think, the
Speaker 4: more the chances are that they may become pregnant. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know if having a baby loosens the lid,
Speaker 4: if that makes sense. But it's a very very common
Speaker 4: sort of question out there. Yeah, any scientific plausibility.
Speaker 3: Okay, because I'm going to ask some dumb lay questions
Speaker 3: because I can, because if I have something silly, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter because I don't know. So here's something I'm
Speaker 3: just building on what you said that you talk about
Speaker 3: people having sex for thirty six months rather than just twelve.
Speaker 3: Is there anything and that when you are in your twenties,
Speaker 3: your sex driver is higher and you actually are probably
Speaker 3: doing it to have a lot more than people who
Speaker 3: are trying to conceive a little later, and so they
Speaker 3: have the numbers game on their side as well because
Speaker 3: simply they're doing it more.
Speaker 4: Perhaps, I mean, that is a theory idea I can't
Speaker 4: I can't confier will deny it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you're talking about thirty six months
Speaker 3: of having sex. Yeah, if you're I don't know frequency.
Speaker 4: Younger people get pregnant more readily than older people. You know,
Speaker 4: it is harder to get pregnant as you become older,
Speaker 4: and that impact is far more apparent woman than men.
Speaker 4: You know, so I think you know, you know, a
Speaker 4: couple of twenty year olds trying to get pregnant, even
Speaker 4: if the guy has got a bit of a low
Speaker 4: spem count, you know, probably there's some high quality sperm
Speaker 4: there and some high quality eggs, and then faly is
Speaker 4: likely to meet me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I mean, of course, any question I asked
Speaker 3: could be the sort of question you've been asked by
Speaker 3: a client as well. Anyway, I like a patient, should
Speaker 3: I say.
Speaker 4: Not that one?
Speaker 2: But really? Oh?
Speaker 4: Okay, no, no, that's it's a good theory. I haven't
Speaker 4: thought about it.
Speaker 3: So come back to me next time. Next time you're
Speaker 3: on what are the birth rates?
Speaker 2: These are?
Speaker 3: We're getting through quite a few texts on this one.
Speaker 3: How a second, I'm just going through because we've got
Speaker 3: a lot of got Okay, Simon, is there a best
Speaker 3: time to get pregnant? And also is there an age
Speaker 3: where being an age that would be bad for getting pregnant? Well,
Speaker 3: I would imagine as you get older, but the best
Speaker 3: time to get pregnant so we want.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So for a fertility specialist, the only answer I
Speaker 4: can give is the best time to get pregnant was yesterday,
Speaker 4: you know, given those eight related factors as we talked about.
Speaker 4: So I mean a concept I'd like people, you know,
Speaker 4: really to think about as planning for their last child.
Speaker 4: We see a lot of couples where, you know, they
Speaker 4: got their first child, you know, no worries, sort of
Speaker 4: thirty five, thirty six, but by the time they're trained
Speaker 4: for their second or perhaps their thirds, you know, the
Speaker 4: thirty eighth, thirty nine, and they've just reached a tipping
Speaker 4: point where it's very, very difficult. So flipping it around
Speaker 4: and thinking all right, hey we might want two kids,
Speaker 4: or we hey we might even want three, so we
Speaker 4: really have to think about or how old are we
Speaker 4: going to be, if that makes sense. I think if
Speaker 4: people want two kids and even the possibility of a third,
Speaker 4: I think trying for your first by your early thirties ideally,
Speaker 4: you know, would be what the recommendation I would give.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're thinking about it, start having a go yeah, okay, look,
Speaker 3: don't listen to me. People will listen to listen. Assignment
Speaker 3: on this one. Okay, what are the birth rates in
Speaker 3: comparison first world to third world?
Speaker 2: Do we have any data on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they. You know, the third world is
Speaker 4: definitely higher. I don't. You know. All of the sets
Speaker 4: I've got around the replacement rates are really from those
Speaker 4: first world countries, you know, Australia, Taiwan, Singapore, stuff like that,
Speaker 4: that are are very low. I think that there are
Speaker 4: still challenges in some of those other other countries, but
Speaker 4: it's certainly the sort of propping up the world population probably.
Speaker 4: I know from the study from some of the stuff
Speaker 4: I've got Vietnam has one of the sort of high
Speaker 4: high batility rates compared to many of the other southeastising countries.
Speaker 4: And why that is I don't know.
Speaker 3: But data on how old people are when they're having
Speaker 3: babies in those countries.
Speaker 4: There is, but I don't have it. You don't have
Speaker 4: to younger, but it's young absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3: And in first world countries, we're people have careers they
Speaker 3: want to pursue. I mean, logically, there are some logical
Speaker 3: deductions you can sort of make. I guess, can't you that?
Speaker 3: And OECD countries where women have careers they want to
Speaker 3: pursue and they might put it off a bit, it
Speaker 3: would make sense. I guess that there might be that
Speaker 3: would be reflected in birth statistics.
Speaker 2: Is that right? Or no?
Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely? I think you know the you know, it
Speaker 4: wasn't that long ago. You kind of got married, you
Speaker 4: bought a house, and then you had a kid and
Speaker 4: you started your family, and you know that's how hard
Speaker 4: is that now? You know? Really difficult?
Speaker 3: Oh well, the house thing, I mean we blame the
Speaker 3: housing market for Actually that sounds a ridiculous thing to say,
Speaker 3: but if we were doing a more broader talk back topic,
Speaker 3: you could say, how much is you know, put your
Speaker 3: ambitions to buy a house affecting on your chances of
Speaker 3: having a baby when you want it?
Speaker 4: It is? It's huge. I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 4: having kids is expensive, and I think if we want
Speaker 4: to really try and improve utility rates, it's you know,
Speaker 4: there are sort of financial factors and encomic factors we
Speaker 4: need to look at. I mean, an interesting thing to
Speaker 4: think about is as people have less kids and the
Speaker 4: average age of the population increases, we have more people
Speaker 4: not paying taxes, and you know that will have economic
Speaker 4: consequences which really can be quite quite substantial.
Speaker 3: Okay, I put a few I want to put a
Speaker 3: few urban myths to rest.
Speaker 2: If in fact, they are urban myths.
Speaker 3: So for guys, does saving up abstaining help you with
Speaker 3: having yeah, you know, delivering a high number of sperm?
Speaker 4: Yep? So men, So the less you ejaculate, lest you ejaculate,
Speaker 4: the volume increases, but the volume also includes more dead
Speaker 4: and dying sperm. Okay, So the more you ejaculate, the
Speaker 4: lower the volume of the ejaculate, but the better the
Speaker 4: quality of the sperm. So we actually have no data
Speaker 4: to show that having you know, sex bloody three times
Speaker 4: a day versus you know, every day is so sort
Speaker 4: of once once or twice a week is potentially any different.
Speaker 4: A good rule of thumb should be ejaculating two or
Speaker 4: three times a week, you know, so they should be
Speaker 4: over that sperm. So saving it up as something we
Speaker 4: would recommend avoiding.
Speaker 3: Okay, good, I mean that was actually the advice I
Speaker 3: got was to get cracking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. If people are having your dinner early, and
Speaker 3: you know, somebody sent me a text same ham having
Speaker 3: my dinner right now, it's like we're only talking biology here, people,
Speaker 3: We're not talking.
Speaker 2: Explicit stuff anyway, Just to deal with it.
Speaker 3: But that that's that was the advice that. In fact, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I just thought I put that out there because I
Speaker 3: have spoken to a lot of guys who think, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, and their first question, which was dispelled by
Speaker 3: the expert they spoke to, was no, no, no, it's
Speaker 3: not a case of saving up for a rainy day.
Speaker 3: Let's get into it. That's right, Okay, got lots of
Speaker 3: questions here. I guess the is I'm fleshing out this
Speaker 3: question from Sally. It's saying, talk about the emotional stress
Speaker 3: on couples, struggling and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I.
Speaker 3: Does the emotional it's tied into the stress thing, simon.
Speaker 3: I guess about if you are getting really emotional about things, Okay,
Speaker 3: that's a mental health issue. But does that impact on fertility?
Speaker 3: And I'm guessing we don't know.
Speaker 4: Look, I think in terms of the impact on fertility,
Speaker 4: you know, from a stats point of view, would probably
Speaker 4: be quite difficult. But the emotional burden, the burden of treatment,
Speaker 4: the burden of failure, the burden of miscarriages is absolutely huge.
Speaker 4: And and those things can you know, become cumulative. I
Speaker 4: think you know the rate of people splitting up through
Speaker 4: fertility treatment, you know, it's much higher than those not
Speaker 4: having fertility treatment. So you know, it takes its toll
Speaker 4: on people in lots of different ways. And I think,
Speaker 4: you know, the wider friends and family as well. I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, the more we talk about it, it's great,
Speaker 4: you know, but also it can be very hard for
Speaker 4: the for our closest you know, the closest people to us,
Speaker 4: because they really want us to have that, you know,
Speaker 4: that that thing we want, which is a t older
Speaker 4: a family, and so it's hard to measure, but it's
Speaker 4: it's significant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think that advice you talked about when
Speaker 3: you talked about the best time to get pregnant is
Speaker 3: yesterday is and I have spoken to you know, we're
Speaker 3: given the battle that we had at firstly I was
Speaker 3: talking to other people about when when suddenly you were
Speaker 3: under almost under prescription too try hard for a baby,
Speaker 3: and that can put a lot of pressure on a
Speaker 3: relationship because it's, you know, something that felt like it
Speaker 3: should be just in the moment of you know, in
Speaker 3: a relationship suddenly became something like we've you know, it's
Speaker 3: Wednesday night, We've got all it's.
Speaker 2: You know, And that that is a.
Speaker 3: Tough one, isn't it, Because you still want people to
Speaker 3: try and conceive naturally if they can.
Speaker 4: That's right, And I guess it's the cruel reality, isn't it,
Speaker 4: you know, of the situation. And I guess you know,
Speaker 4: people taking time to you know, to remember the stuff
Speaker 4: outside of fertility, and it is really important. But you know,
Speaker 4: we're a living, busy lives, and you know, I guess
Speaker 4: things can sometimes end up on a bit of a schedule
Speaker 4: for many many of our patients.
Speaker 3: How easy is it to work out because when a
Speaker 3: woman's ovulating.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good question. And look, I think there's
Speaker 4: lots of apps out there and people use urine cats
Speaker 4: and stuff and go for it. People go crazy. But
Speaker 4: we would recommend people just to have regular, unprotected sex.
Speaker 4: You know, I think trying to time it carefully is
Speaker 4: not you know, in a way, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: You know, we also get told when we're teenagers, hey,
Speaker 4: we're a condom. You know you'll get pregnant. And some
Speaker 4: of our mates, did you know they didn't get pregnant
Speaker 4: when the condo brookes once or they're just a bit
Speaker 4: useless once. So to go from that you have to
Speaker 4: sort of really carefully time it. You know, those are
Speaker 4: so very different ends of the spectrum. So some people
Speaker 4: are some woman a lot of ovulator ratically as well,
Speaker 4: their cycle won't be consistent. It may range, you know,
Speaker 4: seventeen days even more. So, you know, trying to pinpoint
Speaker 4: ovulation in some situations, I think people may actually, you know,
Speaker 4: they only they really sort of focus on having sex
Speaker 4: in this period and maybe they do actually miss the
Speaker 4: boat because it's a later ovulation. So if you haven't
Speaker 4: sex two or three times a week, you know, regardless
Speaker 4: where you're at in the cycle, you will get the
Speaker 4: timing right. Okay, So I think you know that's a
Speaker 4: general thumb. You know, you use your apps, look at
Speaker 4: all that kind of stuff, but you still want to
Speaker 4: be having sex broadly at least twill three times a week.
Speaker 3: What about I remember this advert years ago. It ended
Speaker 3: up with the line and folic acid for reproduction, and
Speaker 3: somebody's texted me about folic acid. What what's the role
Speaker 3: of follic acid for?
Speaker 4: Just to prevent spina bifitter so spina bist an narsty
Speaker 4: or neuritube defect, quite an narsty spinal condition. It doesn't
Speaker 4: help people become pregnant, but it's really more of a
Speaker 4: public health measure. Those who are taking folic acid preconceptually
Speaker 4: will have lower rates of spina bifida. I believe in
Speaker 4: New Zealand we don't fortify our breed with fol eight.
Speaker 4: So I think that's that's part of I don't know
Speaker 4: too much about that, but yeah, it's it's purely to
Speaker 4: reduce that id and when you are pregnant. A lot
Speaker 4: of people take it beforehand, but it's really when you
Speaker 4: are pregnant for sort of help development of the fetal brain.
Speaker 3: But well, these about but these are I mean, these
Speaker 3: are important things to know because a lot of people,
Speaker 3: you know, they love the pink Himalayan sort of sultan things.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, that's not I dosed. I mean salts
Speaker 3: where we get iding from generally? Isn't it all vitamins?
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's just just one last question, because time has flown.
Speaker 3: What are the treatments that are available now? Are there
Speaker 3: any specific things that stand out to you that have
Speaker 3: changed that changed the game for people who might twenty
Speaker 3: years ago have struggled to conceive in terms of YE
Speaker 3: fertility associates.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I mean, our standout performer in terms of
Speaker 4: treatment has been IVF. You know, IVF has continued to
Speaker 4: increase in success rates and become more refined. You know,
Speaker 4: it is our kind of you know itsel that's our
Speaker 4: higher paid player on the team, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4: So things like insemination remain very simple, if anything, probably
Speaker 4: you know, we've found that early recourse to IVF treatment
Speaker 4: and many situations is he so actually sort of being
Speaker 4: brave enough to talk to our patients and actually say, hey, look, IVF.
Speaker 4: You know it is your best your best step. You
Speaker 4: know there are other options or you know this all that,
Speaker 4: but this, this will be people's best best option. So
Speaker 4: you know, I think it's forty years since we're the
Speaker 4: first child born in New Zealand with IVF. I think
Speaker 4: that was not too long ago, and forty five the
Speaker 4: first child born in England. So you know, it's it's
Speaker 4: been a massive, amazing colesion of technology and knowledge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, Simon, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: And people can reach you in Wellington and I think
Speaker 3: you wake for Field Clinic as part of Fertility Associates, right,
Speaker 3: and I think.
Speaker 4: We're on the we're on the TIRA, so Fertility Associates
Speaker 4: Wellington on the tear.
Speaker 2: The wrong wrong address there.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I do some work there as well.
Speaker 2: Good stuff.
Speaker 4: So yeah, ready music probably shouldn't said that.
Speaker 2: I think you can mention so much for thanks so
Speaker 2: much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: No worries. Thanks very dumb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, we'll catch you again.
Speaker 3: That's something from Fertility Associates and you know, if you
Speaker 3: if you wanted to speak to a doctor, then give
Speaker 3: them a call. And anyway, we'll be back in just
Speaker 3: a moment to wrap sport with Elliot Smith, who is next. Yes,
Speaker 3: that wraps up the parents squad actually, because now it
Speaker 3: is that time of day at eleven minutes to six.
Speaker 1: Good weekend, collective sports.
Speaker 3: Rat and look he's in the studio. I wish we
Speaker 3: had the cameras on because he's pretty in pink today
Speaker 3: Elliot Smith and now Elliott I just need you to
Speaker 3: acknowledge that I did predict. It's not over yet, but
Speaker 3: I did predict the Warriors would come back and beat
Speaker 3: the Broncos.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is half time and they lead sixteen six
Speaker 5: over the Broncos this afternoon at Mount Smart Stadium. You
Speaker 5: did predict it. Yeah, congratulations, there are still forty minutes
Speaker 5: to go.
Speaker 3: I did call the Chiefs and the Blues at the
Speaker 3: other week.
Speaker 5: You said the Blues would win comfortably in the final.
Speaker 3: If I recall right, And I also predicted that the
Speaker 3: Titans would beat the Warriors.
Speaker 5: You did, and so you're on track for three from three.
Speaker 2: I just wish I had the money on it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you should have. You should have look id caution
Speaker 5: to say there are still forty minutes to go, and
Speaker 5: in a Warriors game, there is plenty of time for
Speaker 5: the game to go one of two directions. So we
Speaker 5: wait and see. But a very good start from the Warriors.
Speaker 5: A couple of tries from Chanelle Harris Tavita could have
Speaker 5: been a third. I just had one ruled out before halftime.
Speaker 5: But sixteen six at the break, you'd take that from
Speaker 5: the Warriors' perspective against the Broncos. So, yes, they're missing
Speaker 5: some their State of origin players who are being rested
Speaker 5: this week coming off the game on Wednesday night, but
Speaker 5: buying large, a pretty good start from the Warriors.
Speaker 3: Actually, I guess who cares who they're resting. What matters
Speaker 3: is on the pitches.
Speaker 5: Two points is up for grabs, so that's what you
Speaker 5: need to do, and these are the games to the
Speaker 5: Warriors perspective that you need to win. Coming off the
Speaker 5: back of that humiliation last week on the Gold Coast,
Speaker 5: they need to balance back and all the signs are
Speaker 5: pretty positive so far this afternoon.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I always find it one of the more fatuous sort
Speaker 3: of discussions that you hear about who's missing from the
Speaker 3: field in sport, because it's like, Okay, you do it
Speaker 3: briefly and let's move on to who's on the pitch.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right. Although I think in the NL it
Speaker 5: is important because you've got the state of origin period
Speaker 5: where some teams do get weakened by things, and this
Speaker 5: traditionally has been a very strong period for the Warriors,
Speaker 5: where they go through last week obviously belted by the
Speaker 5: and they're playing a Broncos, you know, a team dominated
Speaker 5: by state of origin players. There are a few players out.
Speaker 5: But having said that, you know it's the same as
Speaker 5: week one of the competition. There are still two points
Speaker 5: for a win, so do you take those if you
Speaker 5: get in the saft Now.
Speaker 3: We've had the all blacks named and the captain all
Speaker 3: that sort of thing, when it's actually the when's the
Speaker 3: first game for the All Blacks.
Speaker 5: This time next week, well not exactly this time next
Speaker 5: week sevenar five, next Saturday night against England in Dunedin.
Speaker 3: That is actually hitting the ground running, isn't it.
Speaker 2: How are England looking?
Speaker 5: England have had a game under their belts. They played
Speaker 5: Japan last week relatively comfortable. Then obviously they've had the
Speaker 5: Six Nations a bit earlier on in the years, So
Speaker 5: if you're comparing the two, you know, new slate for
Speaker 5: the All Blacks versus England coming in with a bit
Speaker 5: more time under their belts, then that's obviously a benefit
Speaker 5: for England. They're in the country at the moment, training
Speaker 5: away and so you know, I guess it's we'll find
Speaker 5: out next Saturday night.
Speaker 2: Won't be very much.
Speaker 5: Looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: And of course the Mario Blacks they're playing.
Speaker 5: Japan tonight, so that's at ten o'clock over in Japan,
Speaker 5: so that's another one with a lot of those players.
Speaker 5: And that Mex just coming off the Super Roggy playoffs
Speaker 5: and now into multi All Blacks mode. They haven't had
Speaker 5: a lot of time together. I mean that squad was
Speaker 5: only selected on Tuesday. They're now playing it game on
Speaker 5: Saturday night, which is quite remarkable, isn't it So the quivery,
Speaker 5: quick turnaround for the moldy All Blacks.
Speaker 2: But they're looking as a team.
Speaker 3: What's the selections looking strike?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there's got the strong base of a
Speaker 5: few players that missed out on All Black selection, a
Speaker 5: few players that perhaps you know, you don't know too
Speaker 5: much about. Is the case sometimes of the moldy All
Speaker 5: Blacks that you have to dig a little bit deeper
Speaker 5: to find moldy heritage in certain positions. But really looking
Speaker 5: forward to watching that game tonight. All Blacks played Japans
Speaker 5: that later on in the year, so interesting to get
Speaker 5: a prac on on how things are tracking. But yeah,
Speaker 5: the big game for the All Blacks next Saturday night
Speaker 5: seven or five. Life here on News Talks.
Speaker 3: Absolutely I'm looking forward to hearing your call on that, Elliott,
Speaker 3: And good to see you mate, Thanks for coming home,
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: There we go, Elliott Smith, the voice of.
Speaker 3: Rugby and Carago Chicken before get.
Speaker 2: And thanks so much for listening and stay tuned for
Speaker 2: Roman Travers.
Speaker 3: He's got a special, very special guest joining him to
Speaker 3: take calls about his stories and incredible career. Barry Holland
Speaker 3: will be in with from seven to eight with Roman
Speaker 3: Travers and join us again tomorrow. We've got Davis similar O'Connors.
Speaker 2: Or what was I saying?
Speaker 3: It was about to give the wrong Samin Brown? What
Speaker 3: has I had the wrong name for singing? The Ministry
Speaker 3: of Minister of Transports joining us. Enjoy your night, We'll
Speaker 3: catch you soon and have a great evening.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
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