WEBVTT - Survey shows Kiwis want harsher penalties for drunk drivers - so what more can be done to keep our roads safe?

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<v Speaker 1>Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

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<v Speaker 1>a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald every

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<v Speaker 1>few weeks. It seems that we're reporting on a recidivist

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<v Speaker 1>drink driver who is once again going through the court

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<v Speaker 1>system due to their behavior. And there are still thousands

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<v Speaker 1>going through the justice system every year. In fact, figures

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<v Speaker 1>show that over fifteen thousand people were convicted last year

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<v Speaker 1>over driving under the influence. Now, a new survey has

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<v Speaker 1>shown consistent support from New Zealanders to tackle drink driving,

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<v Speaker 1>conducted by the New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council. More kiwis

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<v Speaker 1>are keen to see police issue on the spot finds

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<v Speaker 1>for minor alcohol related offenses, while there remains high support

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<v Speaker 1>for confiscating cars and use of alcohol interlocks. With this

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<v Speaker 1>high support bought in place, what can be done to

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<v Speaker 1>get drunk drivers off our roads? Today on the front

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<v Speaker 1>Page we're discussing how we can curb drink driving with

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<v Speaker 1>Virginia Nichols, Executive director of the New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council. Virginia,

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<v Speaker 1>what was the motivation for this survey starting six years ago?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the industry felt they needed to understand

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<v Speaker 2>and get consumer feedback on their different feelings, if you like,

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<v Speaker 2>around all sorts of different issues, and of course the

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<v Speaker 2>industry has been listening to many of these through the

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<v Speaker 2>years as well.

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<v Speaker 1>So your survey shows that there's quite high support for

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<v Speaker 1>more to be done on drink driving. Seventy nine percent

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<v Speaker 1>support confiscating cars for repeat drink drivers, fifty nine percent

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<v Speaker 1>want heavier fines for drunken disorderly behavior, and fifty four

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<v Speaker 1>percent want to use alcohol interlocks in cars to reduce

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<v Speaker 1>drink driving. Are you encouraged by the high I support

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<v Speaker 1>for these measures?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, absolutely encouraged, and we support it as well. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean we're very keen to actually strengthen think we think

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<v Speaker 2>this very strong supporter there from consumers. We support it,

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<v Speaker 2>and we think targeted interventions are the way to go.

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<v Speaker 1>How easy would it be for some of these things

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<v Speaker 1>to be implemented? Are those alcohol interlocks in cars? Are

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<v Speaker 1>those the things that you blow into before the motor starts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely they are, and you can see there from

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<v Speaker 2>the data. Alcohol interlock courts mandated orders have increased from

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and sixty two.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not a lot, is it? Back?

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty fifteen up to nearly four thousand and twenty

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty four and so really what we can do

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<v Speaker 2>there is I mean we could actually all wear meaning

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<v Speaker 2>the courts could actually increase the number of alcohol interlock

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<v Speaker 2>orders that they actually put onto people that are doing

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<v Speaker 2>drinking and driving.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm sure they'd be a cost involved in creating

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<v Speaker 1>new laws and things like that, but surely that'd be

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<v Speaker 1>balanced out by the savings on the court time and

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<v Speaker 1>the stays in hospitals and all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, it's a really good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, these people are hazardous drinkers, They've got significant

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<v Speaker 2>drinking issues. This is something we can do, we can

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<v Speaker 2>strengthen because it is actually happening at the moment, but

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<v Speaker 2>it needs to happen more. We think that we could

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<v Speaker 2>be doing more with interlocks.

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<v Speaker 1>From the survey as well, fifty five percent of respondents

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<v Speaker 1>support police issuing spot fines for minor alcohol related offenses.

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<v Speaker 1>In New South Wales, a low level drink driving offense

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<v Speaker 1>starts off with a fine of about six hundred dollars

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<v Speaker 1>and three months loss of license, whereas here a similar

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<v Speaker 1>offense would be a two hundred dollar fine and a

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<v Speaker 1>deduction of fifty demerit points. Do you reckon we're a

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<v Speaker 1>bit too lenient when it comes to these on the

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<v Speaker 1>spot fines?

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I don't The survey doesn't delve any deeper into

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<v Speaker 2>that there, and there is quite a lot of fines

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<v Speaker 2>and things I know through our court system. I would

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<v Speaker 2>need to investigate that a little bit further. But I

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<v Speaker 2>certainly think this actually supports and actually supports heavier fines,

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<v Speaker 2>and the industry is not against that at all.

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<v Speaker 1>For that to be reviewed, The Herald often publishes stories

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<v Speaker 1>showing that someone is on their umpteenth conviction, they've been

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<v Speaker 1>through all of this before, and they got home detention

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<v Speaker 1>or fines or some brief spell in jail, but it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem to stick. Are we too lenient when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to criminal proceedings against drunk drivers? Do you think?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think we need to throw everyone who is

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<v Speaker 1>over the limited in jail. But what do we need

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<v Speaker 1>to do to hold more people to account?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think what you're referring to there is hazardous drinkers,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think we've actually got to realize as well

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<v Speaker 2>that we are drinking less and we're drinking better. With

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<v Speaker 2>a move to moderation as part of a balanced lifestyle.

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<v Speaker 2>And the annual New Zealand Health Survey provides information on

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<v Speaker 2>our health and wellbeing. It shows that round about eighty

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<v Speaker 2>three percent or five out of six of US drink

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<v Speaker 2>beer one and spirits responsibly. So it's an increase of

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<v Speaker 2>four point seven percentage points over the last four years.

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<v Speaker 2>And what you're just referring to there is hazardous drinking

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<v Speaker 2>or harmful alcohol consumption among adults over the past four

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<v Speaker 2>years has declined to sixteen point six percent. Now it's

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<v Speaker 2>still too high and we still want that to be

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<v Speaker 2>reduced a little bit better. However, we still also need

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<v Speaker 2>to realize this tats. New Zealand alcohol consumption per capita

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<v Speaker 2>is also declined by twenty eight percent, and we drink

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<v Speaker 2>below the OECD average, less than the US, UK, Australia, Germany,

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<v Speaker 2>France and Ireland. However, hazardous drinkers, and I think the

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<v Speaker 2>surveys that it tells us as well that we really

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<v Speaker 2>support consumers, really support heavier fines for if a drunk

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<v Speaker 2>and disorderly behavior.

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<v Speaker 3>We want more alcohol interlocks.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think what's important here too is alcohol education

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<v Speaker 2>programs as well, so targeted support programs for harmful drinkers.

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<v Speaker 2>I think will probably do more than heavier fines.

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<v Speaker 1>George's Jovi is too wasted.

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<v Speaker 2>I should see something, but I could look dumb in

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<v Speaker 2>front of Monique.

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<v Speaker 1>Monique ses, you're dumb. But if he crashes, if the

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<v Speaker 1>love of his family puzzle tip, and if he does,

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<v Speaker 1>goose children avort me forever.

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<v Speaker 2>Chip.

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<v Speaker 1>You know I can't grab your gush chips.

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<v Speaker 3>What are you doing?

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<v Speaker 1>I've been internalizing a really complicated situation in my head.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you want about? I don't think you should drive, na, No,

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<v Speaker 1>you're two drunk free just crazy. As a country, we

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<v Speaker 1>have these kind of big drunk driving campaigns every year.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that those are having an impact? Things

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<v Speaker 1>like those that ghost chips one for example, where part

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<v Speaker 1>of our vernacular for a while was ghost chips. But

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't feel like they have the same sticking power anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we've got to realize though, that we are

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<v Speaker 2>as I say, we're drinking differently. We know we're doing that,

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<v Speaker 2>and we also need to look at say, since twenty fourteen,

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<v Speaker 2>the total number of New Zealand is convicted of driving

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<v Speaker 2>under the influence, and this is both alcohol and or drugs.

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<v Speaker 2>It has declined by twenty seven to send and so good.

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<v Speaker 2>These are good indicators of what's going.

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<v Speaker 3>On out there.

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<v Speaker 2>However, we still need to do more, and I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>it's a balanced approach. It's a balanced approach with education,

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<v Speaker 2>it's very important that we have a look at a

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<v Speaker 2>whole lot of other areas as well. And part of

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<v Speaker 2>that I think is going to be interlocks and cars,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think alcohol, more alcohol education in schools as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and those ads as well as part of that education,

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<v Speaker 1>do they need to be a bit more brutal? I

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<v Speaker 1>mean some of the ads that played in South Australia

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<v Speaker 1>when I was younger were quite scarring. I still think

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<v Speaker 1>about them.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there is a balanced approach here and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure ACC and people like that that are doing those

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<v Speaker 2>advertisements are actually I'm sure they're doing an awful lot

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<v Speaker 2>of research around them as well to find what works,

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<v Speaker 2>what doesn't work. They'd be doing them for quite a

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<v Speaker 2>long time, so I think, again, this is a many

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<v Speaker 2>pronged approach. How do we reduce hazardous drinkers, how do

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<v Speaker 2>we actually provide more education, and how do we actually

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<v Speaker 2>provide more targeted programs. Are there sufficient targeted programs for

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<v Speaker 2>these people that are hazardous drinkers?

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<v Speaker 3>It's a health issue really, to be fair.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw the analysis done by STUFF last year showed

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<v Speaker 1>that the number of discharges without convictions is skyrocketed in

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<v Speaker 1>recent years. It was one hundred and seventeen and twenty fourteen,

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<v Speaker 1>then jumped in twenty twenty one to four hundred and three.

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<v Speaker 1>Then in twenty twenty three there were one thousand and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eight discharges without conviction. Do you have any inkling

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<v Speaker 1>as to why this is happening and are you concerned

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<v Speaker 1>about this, because of course from your survey, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people would be unsettled by that number.

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<v Speaker 2>God, I'm really surprised with those numbers. That is certainly

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<v Speaker 2>higher than what I would have expected in the past,

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<v Speaker 2>been very difficult to get a discharge the conviction for

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<v Speaker 2>drink driving. So I don't actually know what's going on there,

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<v Speaker 2>but those are concerning numbers.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell us a little bit more about the

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<v Speaker 1>Tomorrow Project and what impact that's having on drink driving?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's really really important.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, since twenty nineteen, the Tomorrow Project, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>social change charity governed by Spirits New Zealand, New Zealand

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<v Speaker 2>Wine Grows and the Brewers Association. They funded the Life

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<v Speaker 2>Education Trust to deliver SMASH. It's a theater and education

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<v Speaker 2>program for high school students that provides practical information advice

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<v Speaker 2>to support better decision making. So I think really most

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<v Speaker 2>of us agree that targeted education and support programs they

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<v Speaker 2>create a much better understanding of responsible drinking. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>fact borne out by the fact that seventy percent of

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<v Speaker 2>New Zealanders surveyed agreed that such program will reduce alcohol

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<v Speaker 2>related harm. So all the research tells us is that

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<v Speaker 2>earlier you start talking to teenagers about drinking, the less

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<v Speaker 2>likely it is they'll become hazardous drinkers or start.

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<v Speaker 3>Drinking at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is why education for youth is really important. And

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<v Speaker 2>since it actually started in twenty nineteen, to the end

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<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty four school year, the SMASH program has

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<v Speaker 2>been delivered to more than one hundred and eight thousand

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<v Speaker 2>students across New Zealand. This means it engages with about

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<v Speaker 2>a third of year nine students in Aiti era, building

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<v Speaker 2>on substance education that starts in primary and intermediate schools.

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<v Speaker 2>So what it does is we've got actors and things

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<v Speaker 2>on the stage, and it provides young people with practical

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<v Speaker 2>information on how to say no to alcohol or not

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<v Speaker 2>drinking at all, what a standard drink is, in counting drinks,

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<v Speaker 2>talks about safe drinking, binge drinking, peer pressure, better decision making,

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<v Speaker 2>and availability of zero and low alcohol drinks as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and independent researchers show that the programs supporting positive change

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<v Speaker 2>in youth drinking culture. So I think it's very important

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<v Speaker 2>to get to our young people very early.

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<v Speaker 4>How can we be upset with a player that's trying

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<v Speaker 4>to teach kids how to drink responsibly. Well, first and foremost,

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<v Speaker 4>they don't define what drinking responsibily is. They focus on

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<v Speaker 4>the extreme end of drinking, the getting small, nash, binge drinking, harmful,

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<v Speaker 4>alcohol use, misuse. These are the terms that we see

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<v Speaker 4>throughout the teacher resources for this program. But young people

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<v Speaker 4>are the most vulnerable to alcoholated harm, but from low

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<v Speaker 4>levels of alcohol consumption, So you'll be.

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<v Speaker 1>Students engaged in this program.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it only matters if you're you know, you're blind,

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<v Speaker 4>drunk on the floor, if you're getting into and fight.

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<v Speaker 4>But no, those harms begin at much lower levels of

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<v Speaker 4>alcohol consumption. And that's why our Ministry of Health guidelines

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<v Speaker 4>is not to drink if you're fifteen years under.

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<v Speaker 1>Or delay as long as you can. When it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to hazardous drinking. I know that the alcohol industry, whether

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<v Speaker 1>it be spirits, beer, wine, et cetera. I mean, you

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<v Speaker 1>don't sit around a table and think, right, this is

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<v Speaker 1>going to cause drink driving deaths or hazardous drinking. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean that's not something that the industry wants, right, And

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<v Speaker 1>that's quite clear with all the absoluty work that the

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<v Speaker 1>industry does. How much money does the industry I mean

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<v Speaker 1>you might not know this, but how much money does

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<v Speaker 1>it put behind those educational programs and such.

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<v Speaker 2>That's done connectedly with spirits, wine and beer? And I

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<v Speaker 2>actually don't know that the money. I know it's a

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<v Speaker 2>significant amount of money.

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<v Speaker 1>Would the industry be open to maybe splashing out some

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<v Speaker 1>cash on those initiatives like say the thing that you

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<v Speaker 1>blow on when to get your car started and stuff.

0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, to give you an idea on that, the industry,

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.959
<v Speaker 2>or actually us as consumers, we all pay something called

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.960
<v Speaker 2>exercise texts that's increased more than twenty percent in the

0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 2>last four or so years and consumers paid one point

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.079
<v Speaker 2>two three billion to government in the twenty twenty four

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 2>financial year, so the industry is also paying quite a lot.

0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.360
<v Speaker 2>But there is also from that there. At the moment,

0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.000
<v Speaker 2>people can actually I guess, put a proposal forward to

0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.719
<v Speaker 2>Health New Zealand to actually get more funding for the

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 2>likes of the Smashed programs, which would be a really

0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:46.200
<v Speaker 2>good thing.

0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.520
<v Speaker 1>And like you mentioned earlier as well, there are some

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 1>positive signs that alcohol related deaths are decreasing. Right, What

0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.439
<v Speaker 1>are some of those bright spots from the survey?

0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh well, I think I think the other area really well.

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 2>We've seen in the recent New Zeale and Road Safety

0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Week showed the number of alcohol related road desks is

0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 2>reduced by forty percent than last year. That's a great thing.

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 2>We know, as we mentioned before that the news number

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 2>of New Zealand is convicted of driving under the influences

0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:14.679
<v Speaker 2>declined by twenty seven.

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 3>Percent, so that's a good thing as well.

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.440
<v Speaker 2>So I think all the indicators are there that we're

0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.679
<v Speaker 2>in the right We've got the right trending going on.

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.320
<v Speaker 2>We're drinking in different ways, our number of hazardous drinkings

0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.040
<v Speaker 2>are declining. But as I say, we've still got more

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:28.520
<v Speaker 2>work to do.

0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.000
<v Speaker 1>If you could get the air of the Justice Minister,

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Paul Goldsmith or somebody else in government, what's the one

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.640
<v Speaker 1>thing you'd like them to implement tomorrow to curb this hazard?

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Iss strong driving?

0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Definitely more targeted education in schools, both that plus also

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 2>in workplaces as well. We would like to see, as

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I say, we cover at the moment about you know,

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 2>a third of all high schools in New Zealand. We

0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 2>would like to see every high school receiving this program.

0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.559
<v Speaker 2>As I say, independent research has showed it's very successful

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 2>and we need to get to young people early. But

0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 2>equally as well, it's also quite important that we do

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.680
<v Speaker 2>more in workplaces as well, and there's actually a lot

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 2>of free.

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:08.839
<v Speaker 3>Programs at workplaces.

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 2>A lot of it's about education and understanding about drinking

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 2>and how much.

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 3>Is too much?

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.240
<v Speaker 2>You know, what is the standard drink? If we've got

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.199
<v Speaker 2>an issue, where can we go to get how all

0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 2>those practical things that are really really important. So I

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 2>think it's important that we get the young people at

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>sort of twelve and thirteen years, but we equally go

0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 2>into workplaces as well, and the online there's wonderful programs online.

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Alcohol and Me is one of them where you can

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.200
<v Speaker 2>go on and do a whole lot of you can

0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 2>ask if you like, how much you know, any questions

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 2>you want to do, and as I say, find out

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot more about what responsible drinking is all about.

0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, Virginia.

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 3>Okay, thanks Chelsea.

0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 1>That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 1>can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 1>at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.200
<v Speaker 1>produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:10.040
<v Speaker 1>our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.359
<v Speaker 1>tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.