Speaker 1: Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald every
Speaker 1: few weeks. It seems that we're reporting on a recidivist
Speaker 1: drink driver who is once again going through the court
Speaker 1: system due to their behavior. And there are still thousands
Speaker 1: going through the justice system every year. In fact, figures
Speaker 1: show that over fifteen thousand people were convicted last year
Speaker 1: over driving under the influence. Now, a new survey has
Speaker 1: shown consistent support from New Zealanders to tackle drink driving,
Speaker 1: conducted by the New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council. More kiwis
Speaker 1: are keen to see police issue on the spot finds
Speaker 1: for minor alcohol related offenses, while there remains high support
Speaker 1: for confiscating cars and use of alcohol interlocks. With this
Speaker 1: high support bought in place, what can be done to
Speaker 1: get drunk drivers off our roads? Today on the front
Speaker 1: Page we're discussing how we can curb drink driving with
Speaker 1: Virginia Nichols, Executive director of the New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council. Virginia,
Speaker 1: what was the motivation for this survey starting six years ago?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the industry felt they needed to understand
Speaker 2: and get consumer feedback on their different feelings, if you like,
Speaker 2: around all sorts of different issues, and of course the
Speaker 2: industry has been listening to many of these through the
Speaker 2: years as well.
Speaker 1: So your survey shows that there's quite high support for
Speaker 1: more to be done on drink driving. Seventy nine percent
Speaker 1: support confiscating cars for repeat drink drivers, fifty nine percent
Speaker 1: want heavier fines for drunken disorderly behavior, and fifty four
Speaker 1: percent want to use alcohol interlocks in cars to reduce
Speaker 1: drink driving. Are you encouraged by the high I support
Speaker 1: for these measures?
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely encouraged, and we support it as well. I
Speaker 2: mean we're very keen to actually strengthen think we think
Speaker 2: this very strong supporter there from consumers. We support it,
Speaker 2: and we think targeted interventions are the way to go.
Speaker 1: How easy would it be for some of these things
Speaker 1: to be implemented? Are those alcohol interlocks in cars? Are
Speaker 1: those the things that you blow into before the motor starts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely they are, and you can see there from
Speaker 2: the data. Alcohol interlock courts mandated orders have increased from
Speaker 2: two hundred and sixty two.
Speaker 3: It's not a lot, is it? Back?
Speaker 2: In twenty fifteen up to nearly four thousand and twenty
Speaker 2: and twenty four and so really what we can do
Speaker 2: there is I mean we could actually all wear meaning
Speaker 2: the courts could actually increase the number of alcohol interlock
Speaker 2: orders that they actually put onto people that are doing
Speaker 2: drinking and driving.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure they'd be a cost involved in creating
Speaker 1: new laws and things like that, but surely that'd be
Speaker 1: balanced out by the savings on the court time and
Speaker 1: the stays in hospitals and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: Hey, it's a really good idea.
Speaker 2: I mean, these people are hazardous drinkers, They've got significant
Speaker 2: drinking issues. This is something we can do, we can
Speaker 2: strengthen because it is actually happening at the moment, but
Speaker 2: it needs to happen more. We think that we could
Speaker 2: be doing more with interlocks.
Speaker 1: From the survey as well, fifty five percent of respondents
Speaker 1: support police issuing spot fines for minor alcohol related offenses.
Speaker 1: In New South Wales, a low level drink driving offense
Speaker 1: starts off with a fine of about six hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and three months loss of license, whereas here a similar
Speaker 1: offense would be a two hundred dollar fine and a
Speaker 1: deduction of fifty demerit points. Do you reckon we're a
Speaker 1: bit too lenient when it comes to these on the
Speaker 1: spot fines?
Speaker 2: Look, I don't The survey doesn't delve any deeper into
Speaker 2: that there, and there is quite a lot of fines
Speaker 2: and things I know through our court system. I would
Speaker 2: need to investigate that a little bit further. But I
Speaker 2: certainly think this actually supports and actually supports heavier fines,
Speaker 2: and the industry is not against that at all.
Speaker 1: For that to be reviewed, The Herald often publishes stories
Speaker 1: showing that someone is on their umpteenth conviction, they've been
Speaker 1: through all of this before, and they got home detention
Speaker 1: or fines or some brief spell in jail, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to stick. Are we too lenient when it
Speaker 1: comes to criminal proceedings against drunk drivers? Do you think?
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to throw everyone who is
Speaker 1: over the limited in jail. But what do we need
Speaker 1: to do to hold more people to account?
Speaker 2: Well, I think what you're referring to there is hazardous drinkers,
Speaker 2: and I think we've actually got to realize as well
Speaker 2: that we are drinking less and we're drinking better. With
Speaker 2: a move to moderation as part of a balanced lifestyle.
Speaker 2: And the annual New Zealand Health Survey provides information on
Speaker 2: our health and wellbeing. It shows that round about eighty
Speaker 2: three percent or five out of six of US drink
Speaker 2: beer one and spirits responsibly. So it's an increase of
Speaker 2: four point seven percentage points over the last four years.
Speaker 2: And what you're just referring to there is hazardous drinking
Speaker 2: or harmful alcohol consumption among adults over the past four
Speaker 2: years has declined to sixteen point six percent. Now it's
Speaker 2: still too high and we still want that to be
Speaker 2: reduced a little bit better. However, we still also need
Speaker 2: to realize this tats. New Zealand alcohol consumption per capita
Speaker 2: is also declined by twenty eight percent, and we drink
Speaker 2: below the OECD average, less than the US, UK, Australia, Germany,
Speaker 2: France and Ireland. However, hazardous drinkers, and I think the
Speaker 2: surveys that it tells us as well that we really
Speaker 2: support consumers, really support heavier fines for if a drunk
Speaker 2: and disorderly behavior.
Speaker 3: We want more alcohol interlocks.
Speaker 2: And I think what's important here too is alcohol education
Speaker 2: programs as well, so targeted support programs for harmful drinkers.
Speaker 2: I think will probably do more than heavier fines.
Speaker 1: George's Jovi is too wasted.
Speaker 2: I should see something, but I could look dumb in
Speaker 2: front of Monique.
Speaker 1: Monique ses, you're dumb. But if he crashes, if the
Speaker 1: love of his family puzzle tip, and if he does,
Speaker 1: goose children avort me forever.
Speaker 2: Chip.
Speaker 1: You know I can't grab your gush chips.
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 1: I've been internalizing a really complicated situation in my head.
Speaker 1: What do you want about? I don't think you should drive, na, No,
Speaker 1: you're two drunk free just crazy. As a country, we
Speaker 1: have these kind of big drunk driving campaigns every year.
Speaker 1: Do you think that those are having an impact? Things
Speaker 1: like those that ghost chips one for example, where part
Speaker 1: of our vernacular for a while was ghost chips. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like they have the same sticking power anymore.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I think we've got to realize though, that we are
Speaker 2: as I say, we're drinking differently. We know we're doing that,
Speaker 2: and we also need to look at say, since twenty fourteen,
Speaker 2: the total number of New Zealand is convicted of driving
Speaker 2: under the influence, and this is both alcohol and or drugs.
Speaker 2: It has declined by twenty seven to send and so good.
Speaker 2: These are good indicators of what's going.
Speaker 3: On out there.
Speaker 2: However, we still need to do more, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's a balanced approach. It's a balanced approach with education,
Speaker 2: it's very important that we have a look at a
Speaker 2: whole lot of other areas as well. And part of
Speaker 2: that I think is going to be interlocks and cars,
Speaker 2: and I think alcohol, more alcohol education in schools as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those ads as well as part of that education,
Speaker 1: do they need to be a bit more brutal? I
Speaker 1: mean some of the ads that played in South Australia
Speaker 1: when I was younger were quite scarring. I still think
Speaker 1: about them.
Speaker 2: I think there is a balanced approach here and I'm
Speaker 2: sure ACC and people like that that are doing those
Speaker 2: advertisements are actually I'm sure they're doing an awful lot
Speaker 2: of research around them as well to find what works,
Speaker 2: what doesn't work. They'd be doing them for quite a
Speaker 2: long time, so I think, again, this is a many
Speaker 2: pronged approach. How do we reduce hazardous drinkers, how do
Speaker 2: we actually provide more education, and how do we actually
Speaker 2: provide more targeted programs. Are there sufficient targeted programs for
Speaker 2: these people that are hazardous drinkers?
Speaker 3: It's a health issue really, to be fair.
Speaker 1: I saw the analysis done by STUFF last year showed
Speaker 1: that the number of discharges without convictions is skyrocketed in
Speaker 1: recent years. It was one hundred and seventeen and twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: then jumped in twenty twenty one to four hundred and three.
Speaker 1: Then in twenty twenty three there were one thousand and
Speaker 1: twenty eight discharges without conviction. Do you have any inkling
Speaker 1: as to why this is happening and are you concerned
Speaker 1: about this, because of course from your survey, a lot
Speaker 1: of people would be unsettled by that number.
Speaker 2: God, I'm really surprised with those numbers. That is certainly
Speaker 2: higher than what I would have expected in the past,
Speaker 2: been very difficult to get a discharge the conviction for
Speaker 2: drink driving. So I don't actually know what's going on there,
Speaker 2: but those are concerning numbers.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about the
Speaker 1: Tomorrow Project and what impact that's having on drink driving?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's really really important.
Speaker 2: I mean, since twenty nineteen, the Tomorrow Project, it's a
Speaker 2: social change charity governed by Spirits New Zealand, New Zealand
Speaker 2: Wine Grows and the Brewers Association. They funded the Life
Speaker 2: Education Trust to deliver SMASH. It's a theater and education
Speaker 2: program for high school students that provides practical information advice
Speaker 2: to support better decision making. So I think really most
Speaker 2: of us agree that targeted education and support programs they
Speaker 2: create a much better understanding of responsible drinking. That's a
Speaker 2: fact borne out by the fact that seventy percent of
Speaker 2: New Zealanders surveyed agreed that such program will reduce alcohol
Speaker 2: related harm. So all the research tells us is that
Speaker 2: earlier you start talking to teenagers about drinking, the less
Speaker 2: likely it is they'll become hazardous drinkers or start.
Speaker 3: Drinking at all.
Speaker 2: Which is why education for youth is really important. And
Speaker 2: since it actually started in twenty nineteen, to the end
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four school year, the SMASH program has
Speaker 2: been delivered to more than one hundred and eight thousand
Speaker 2: students across New Zealand. This means it engages with about
Speaker 2: a third of year nine students in Aiti era, building
Speaker 2: on substance education that starts in primary and intermediate schools.
Speaker 2: So what it does is we've got actors and things
Speaker 2: on the stage, and it provides young people with practical
Speaker 2: information on how to say no to alcohol or not
Speaker 2: drinking at all, what a standard drink is, in counting drinks,
Speaker 2: talks about safe drinking, binge drinking, peer pressure, better decision making,
Speaker 2: and availability of zero and low alcohol drinks as well,
Speaker 2: and independent researchers show that the programs supporting positive change
Speaker 2: in youth drinking culture. So I think it's very important
Speaker 2: to get to our young people very early.
Speaker 4: How can we be upset with a player that's trying
Speaker 4: to teach kids how to drink responsibly. Well, first and foremost,
Speaker 4: they don't define what drinking responsibily is. They focus on
Speaker 4: the extreme end of drinking, the getting small, nash, binge drinking, harmful,
Speaker 4: alcohol use, misuse. These are the terms that we see
Speaker 4: throughout the teacher resources for this program. But young people
Speaker 4: are the most vulnerable to alcoholated harm, but from low
Speaker 4: levels of alcohol consumption, So you'll be.
Speaker 1: Students engaged in this program.
Speaker 4: I think it only matters if you're you know, you're blind,
Speaker 4: drunk on the floor, if you're getting into and fight.
Speaker 4: But no, those harms begin at much lower levels of
Speaker 4: alcohol consumption. And that's why our Ministry of Health guidelines
Speaker 4: is not to drink if you're fifteen years under.
Speaker 1: Or delay as long as you can. When it comes
Speaker 1: to hazardous drinking. I know that the alcohol industry, whether
Speaker 1: it be spirits, beer, wine, et cetera. I mean, you
Speaker 1: don't sit around a table and think, right, this is
Speaker 1: going to cause drink driving deaths or hazardous drinking. I
Speaker 1: mean that's not something that the industry wants, right, And
Speaker 1: that's quite clear with all the absoluty work that the
Speaker 1: industry does. How much money does the industry I mean
Speaker 1: you might not know this, but how much money does
Speaker 1: it put behind those educational programs and such.
Speaker 2: That's done connectedly with spirits, wine and beer? And I
Speaker 2: actually don't know that the money. I know it's a
Speaker 2: significant amount of money.
Speaker 1: Would the industry be open to maybe splashing out some
Speaker 1: cash on those initiatives like say the thing that you
Speaker 1: blow on when to get your car started and stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, well, to give you an idea on that, the industry,
Speaker 2: or actually us as consumers, we all pay something called
Speaker 2: exercise texts that's increased more than twenty percent in the
Speaker 2: last four or so years and consumers paid one point
Speaker 2: two three billion to government in the twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: financial year, so the industry is also paying quite a lot.
Speaker 2: But there is also from that there. At the moment,
Speaker 2: people can actually I guess, put a proposal forward to
Speaker 2: Health New Zealand to actually get more funding for the
Speaker 2: likes of the Smashed programs, which would be a really
Speaker 2: good thing.
Speaker 1: And like you mentioned earlier as well, there are some
Speaker 1: positive signs that alcohol related deaths are decreasing. Right, What
Speaker 1: are some of those bright spots from the survey?
Speaker 3: Oh well, I think I think the other area really well.
Speaker 2: We've seen in the recent New Zeale and Road Safety
Speaker 2: Week showed the number of alcohol related road desks is
Speaker 2: reduced by forty percent than last year. That's a great thing.
Speaker 2: We know, as we mentioned before that the news number
Speaker 2: of New Zealand is convicted of driving under the influences
Speaker 2: declined by twenty seven.
Speaker 3: Percent, so that's a good thing as well.
Speaker 2: So I think all the indicators are there that we're
Speaker 2: in the right We've got the right trending going on.
Speaker 2: We're drinking in different ways, our number of hazardous drinkings
Speaker 2: are declining. But as I say, we've still got more
Speaker 2: work to do.
Speaker 1: If you could get the air of the Justice Minister,
Speaker 1: Paul Goldsmith or somebody else in government, what's the one
Speaker 1: thing you'd like them to implement tomorrow to curb this hazard?
Speaker 1: Iss strong driving?
Speaker 2: Definitely more targeted education in schools, both that plus also
Speaker 2: in workplaces as well. We would like to see, as
Speaker 2: I say, we cover at the moment about you know,
Speaker 2: a third of all high schools in New Zealand. We
Speaker 2: would like to see every high school receiving this program.
Speaker 2: As I say, independent research has showed it's very successful
Speaker 2: and we need to get to young people early. But
Speaker 2: equally as well, it's also quite important that we do
Speaker 2: more in workplaces as well, and there's actually a lot
Speaker 2: of free.
Speaker 3: Programs at workplaces.
Speaker 2: A lot of it's about education and understanding about drinking
Speaker 2: and how much.
Speaker 3: Is too much?
Speaker 2: You know, what is the standard drink? If we've got
Speaker 2: an issue, where can we go to get how all
Speaker 2: those practical things that are really really important. So I
Speaker 2: think it's important that we get the young people at
Speaker 2: sort of twelve and thirteen years, but we equally go
Speaker 2: into workplaces as well, and the online there's wonderful programs online.
Speaker 2: Alcohol and Me is one of them where you can
Speaker 2: go on and do a whole lot of you can
Speaker 2: ask if you like, how much you know, any questions
Speaker 2: you want to do, and as I say, find out
Speaker 2: a lot more about what responsible drinking is all about.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Virginia.
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks Chelsea.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 1: at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 1: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 1: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Speaker 1: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
Speaker 1: tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.