1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. Wellington's More 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: Point wastewater plant has flooded and shut down, dumping raw 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: sewage into the south coast. This untreated discharge is set 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: to continue for weeks. Heavy rain overwhelmed the facility built 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: in the nineties, triggering Beach Rahui's health warnings and exposing 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 2: how climate driven storms are already stressing coastal infrastructure. Billions 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: of dollars is likely required to get our wastewater infrastructure 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: in this country up to scratch, But after a long 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: history of underfunding, are we too late? 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Today? 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: On the front page, University of Canterbury Associate Professor Ricardo 14 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: Bellowmandoz is with us to unpack the engineering lessons from 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 2: more Point, the climate risks and what it means for 16 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: our future. But first on the front page, Enzid Harold's 17 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: senior reporter Melissa Nightingale is with us to set the scene. 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 2: First off, Melissa tell us what happens? Take us back. 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the first that we heard about it in 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: the newsroom, there was some social media posts put out 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: by the council saying that sewage was flowing into the ocean. Unfortunately, 22 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: that's not one hundred percent uncommon for Wellington, but normally 23 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 3: it's something like partially treated sewage and heavy rain. But Council, 24 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: we're referring to this as a major incident, so we thought, oh, 25 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: that's a bit strange. It turns out that what had 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 3: happened was there had been some type of mechanical failure 27 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 3: at the mower Point sewage treatment plant and that had 28 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 3: caused the raw, untreated sewage to flow back into the plant, 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 3: filling it up about eighty percent of the way. And 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: then all of this had overloaded the system and it 31 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 3: was flowing out of this short pipe about five meters 32 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 3: into the sea. So just on the beaches there pumping 33 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: I think seventy million cubic meters of raw sewage into 34 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: Wellington's south coast ocean. 35 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: Wow, and is it still going? 36 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: It took them a few days, but they've managed to 37 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: get it switched out to the long outfall pipe, which 38 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 3: goes about one point eight kilometers out to sea. It's 39 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 3: only partially treated though, so we've still got pretty hazardous 40 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 3: stuff being pumped out there. So at the moment that 41 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: means that using the beaches, fishing that kind of thing, 42 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 3: even walking near the beaches is not recommended in those 43 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 3: areas because council is warning that you may have contaminated 44 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 3: sea spray flying up at you. Not a nice place 45 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 3: for a stroll at the moment. 46 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. So how long did I reckon repairs 47 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: will take? 48 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 3: It's looking pretty grim. They're saying that it's going to 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: take months to repair. They haven't figured out yet even 50 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: what caused it, so I think initially they were thinking 51 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: there might be some type of blockage in the pipe, 52 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: and the Wellington Water Chief Executive Pat Doperty, he was 53 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: saying that they had put cameras down the first few 54 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 3: hundred meters of the pipe and they didn't find anything. 55 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 3: So their next step is getting some hydraulic engineers in 56 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: and they're going to be doing like sonah testing on 57 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: this pipe to try and figure out what's happened, whether 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: there's like a problem with like an air blockage in 59 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: there or something wrong with the diffusers. So that's definitely 60 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: the big thing for them. Well, first of all, it's 61 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: fixing the issue and getting this sewage treated and the 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: plant back up and running and then it's yea figuring 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 3: out how did this happen? Why did this happen? Who 64 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 3: knew that there were problems? Did anyone know? 65 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: So Wellington Mayor Andrew Little he's met with Prime Minister 67 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: Christopher Luxen and your Energy minister there, Simon Watts last night. 68 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: What came of that. 69 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's asked for them to LA launch it an 70 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 3: independent government inquiry into this. He says that the government 71 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 3: will sponsor that and it's just going to help have 72 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: a really a proper independent overview of the investigation. What 73 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 3: he said, what Andrew Little said was that you've got 74 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: too many people possibly talking over each other. You've got 75 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: the council that owns the site, Wellington Water that runs 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: the regions who contracts the region's water, Violia that runs 77 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: this particular site, and the Greater Wellington Regional Council which 78 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 3: has regulatory oversight. And it would just be helpful, according 79 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: to Andrew Little, to have someone not connected to any 80 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: of those groups who can look at this and say 81 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 3: who knew what when and were there any red flags 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 3: that were raised with their design? 83 00:04:59,600 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: Flow? 84 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 3: Is what we're the olier doing and what were they 85 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: telling to their superios? That kind of thing. 86 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: Now, how big of a deal is it not to 87 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: be able to use those beaches or even as you say, 88 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: walk along those beaches I mean in Auckland, say, if 89 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 2: you know there's a bit of rain, there's some sewerage 90 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 2: into the you know, unfortunately not uncommon here as well. 91 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: People here don't kind of go, oh, let's go to 92 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: Auckland Harbor and have a swim this weekend, you know 93 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: what I mean? So could you paint us a picture 94 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 2: of how serious a deal this is not being able 95 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: to use those places? 96 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I mean this We're still in the heat 97 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: of summer right and Wellington already we don't get the 98 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: best summers. So where we've lost the chance to make 99 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 3: the most of some of our last couple of months 100 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 3: of beautiful sunny whether on that south coast where some 101 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: of our loveliest beaches are. I mean, those are the 102 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: beaches that you go to for surfing and things like that. 103 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: There's some really lovely spots. Thankfully there are still each 104 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: is around the Wellington area. I took my family out 105 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: to Day's Bay last weekend, which is out around the 106 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 3: Eastbourne area. You know, that was fine, The water was clear, 107 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 3: it was considered safe on the lawa website to go to. 108 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: But you know, there's a there's a lot of people 109 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 3: that are going to be very put out that they 110 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 3: can't they can't swim, that it's not even safe to 111 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: walk around these lovely South Ghost beaches, and you know 112 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 3: they're smelling. You know, it doesn't smell good, it doesn't 113 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: look good. So it's it really sucks for Wellington to 114 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: have this hit at this particular time of year as well. 115 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 2: Well, let's hope it I'll get sorted relatively quickly. Thanks 116 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: so much for joining us, Melissa. 117 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 3: Thank you. 118 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: It'll come as no surprise when I say to you 119 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: it's going to cost billions and billions of dollars to 120 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: fix our country's failing water infrastruction. University of Canfree Associate 121 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: Professor Riccardo Bello Mendoza is with us now to take 122 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: us through what we could do short term and how 123 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: we might be able to tackle this problem once and 124 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: for roll. Riccardo, what do initial reports here at more 125 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: point tell us about what perhaps went wrong with the 126 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: plant's equipment during last week's heavy rain. 127 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like the origin of the problem was 128 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: there was heavy rains in recent days and that increases 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: the flows, the volumes of wastewater coming into the treatment plant, 130 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,559 Speaker 1: and most plants are not able to deal with these 131 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: peaks in westwater flows, so in most cases they will 132 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: have to wipe us at least a portion of the 133 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: westwater will have to go straight into the outfu and 134 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: then into the ocean without any treatment. So in this case, 135 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: while it is not diabet because there is dilusion due 136 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: to the rainwater, there still needs to be some screening, 137 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: some preliminary to remove the biggest stuff in the water 138 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: and sand and so on, but organics and solids will 139 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: still be in the water and that will be discharged. 140 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: So that is something that happens. I wouldn't say it regularly, 141 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: but from time to time in most with water plants 142 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: in New Zealand, because simply they are not designed to 143 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: treat rainwater. But in this case, in more point, when 144 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: they decided to do this by passing, it looks like 145 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: there was a blockage in the outfall pipe and then 146 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: the water just packed up. So basically huge volumes of 147 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: water will just coming back into the dreaming plant and 148 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: that flooded the plant and the equipment and we were 149 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: talking about with what even though it was diluted with wine, 150 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: water still is a is a hazard, so they need 151 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: to be careful with that, and they need to then 152 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: look at the damage that has caused the equipment. So 153 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: it will take, unfortunately sometime until everything is fixed. Now, 154 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: there was some concerns about what was actually causing that blockage, 155 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: so they were even thinking that it would take weeks 156 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: to discover where the blockage was and to fix it. 157 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: But unfortunately it was fixed relatively quickly. That at least 158 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: is now solved because now the water is flowing normally 159 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: into the ocean. But getting the plant again online will 160 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: take several weeks. Most of the equipment that we used 161 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: have to be imported, so it might take a month 162 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: to actually get a plant still, I mean up and 163 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: running again. 164 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: We said relatively. 165 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 2: I mean it does happen from time to time, right 166 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 2: when there's heavy rain. These things happen, and not only 167 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: in Wellington, big surprise, Shoka, but all around the country. Yes, 168 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: Is that good enough? 169 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a problem hearing crushes. For example, we 170 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: did a study a couple of years ago looking at 171 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: the flows of water and nutrients in the city and 172 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: we found wasn't really really that new, but we found 173 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: that there is a significant portion of groundwater rainwater getting 174 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: into the sewer and that means that the wastewater turning 175 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: plant is not only receiving this sewage that should be treating, 176 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: but it's also a big portion of that is just 177 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: groundwater rain water. So there is an aging sewer infrastructure 178 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: in the country in many places, not only in Wellington, 179 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: and we need to start fixing that so we don't 180 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: actually get those peaks in what now in most treatment plans, 181 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: they don't design to cope with those peaks because it 182 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: will be overdesigning. It will be a huge investment that 183 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: is in most cases so necessary. So what they need 184 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: to do is just to control how much and when 185 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: that a peak of a sewage and rainwater is being 186 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: dumped into the environment. 187 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: Presumably when they were first designed in what the eighties 188 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: and nineties, depending on where you were in the country 189 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: they were designed. You know what the packet say is 190 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 2: for waste water only. 191 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: They were still designed for some portion of influence. We 192 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: call it influence or infiltration to happen. And when we 193 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: have a new sewer system, the infiltration and influence is minimum. 194 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: But then as we have an aging infrastructure sewers, then 195 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: we have to have some cracks in the system also 196 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: mindholes that where the water can get into, so eventually 197 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: that can increase. But again you're right, so say twenty 198 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: thirty years ago the population wasn't of the size that 199 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: it is now, so it's growing in some cases faster 200 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: than expected. And also we have these weather extreme weather 201 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: events that were not happening just ten twenty years ago, 202 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: and we have now systems that are more superceptible to 203 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: be damaged by these events. So it's also important to 204 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: think of resilience. In most cases, in New Zealand, we 205 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: have centralized with water timon plants. Basically we put all 206 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: the eggs in a basket. If that goes wrong, then 207 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: we don't have any alternative. So in some cases it 208 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: may be a waste to consider decentralized systems. But again 209 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: this is a huge investment we're talking about, so it's 210 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: a big decision and it has to be done well 211 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: considering risk and average assessment and res mitigation process. 212 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 2: Well infrastructure New Zealand estimates they reckon about one hundred 213 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: and twenty to one hundred and eighty five billion dollars 214 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 2: is needed for water upgrades over the next thirty years. 215 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: That's driven by a climate resilience. Wastewater facilities around the 216 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 2: country have always been underfunded, right, been on the founder 217 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: for years, sometimes decades. Are we just going to always 218 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: be playing catch up if we don't write that two 219 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 2: hundred billion dollar check, say. 220 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: That's the risk when these kind of events happened, we 221 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: are just well, in this case a more point a 222 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: huge amount of money we have to invest it just 223 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: to fix the plant again, just to get it back 224 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: to how it was instead of actually upgrading or improving 225 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: these systems. So it's always catching up. And also with 226 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: more common heavy range events, this again it's it's like 227 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: a risk that we might being behind. Yeah, so it's 228 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: but I mean somethings are happening in a positive way. 229 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: So now we have a national with what standard that 230 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: came into a place just a few months ago at 231 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: the end of twenty twenty five, and that will guide 232 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: how we make decisions at the national level. Well, because 233 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: in the past everything was handled at a local level, 234 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: but consoles and that means that sometimes we were actually 235 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: not learning from the experience somewhere else. We were just 236 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: making local decisions and now we will be moving forward 237 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: in a more articulated way. 238 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and way more collaboration across the board. Hey, so 239 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: something like I know that this is not wastewater, but 240 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: something like havelocked North for instance. There, I suppose there'd 241 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 2: be some people in that council who have very specific 242 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: expertise to then pass on to everybody else. But if 243 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: there wasn't you know that. I bet there's stuff like 244 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: that happening all the time over the country and people 245 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: just aren't collaborating. 246 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: Yes, correct, Yeah, I think there is need to be 247 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: a need for councils and operators to be collaborating more 248 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: closely on this. Yeah, and it is a good example 249 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: that you mentioned have looked North, because unfortunately it is 250 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: only when these kind of events happen is that we 251 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: start to pay attention. And big changes have actually happened 252 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: in New Zealands since that. So there has been an 253 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: investment in a deeper boreholes so we can get more 254 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: better quality around water, also protecting the boreholes so we 255 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: don't have the same situation of what happened in Headlock 256 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: northware overflow stone water was actually getting into the well 257 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: there is also now disinfection, so chlorination and you'll be 258 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: disinfection also happening in many places. So things have been 259 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. It's unfortunate that something like 260 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: that had to happen to move faster. So maybe I'm 261 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: hoping that with what happened with more points, other operators 262 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: will then pay attention and say, Okay, we don't want 263 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: to be in the same situation, we need to do something. Well. 264 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: Plants like my point, I believe it was built in 265 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, so they face twice normal sea rise 266 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: in Wellington for example. As an engineer, what kind of 267 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: retrofits or relocations make the most sense I suppose for 268 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: those aging coastal facilities like that nationwide. 269 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, well it has to be made on that. I 270 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: mean considering the situation a case by case basis, So 271 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly the situation at more point. But 272 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: plants that are just off the coast, they are risks 273 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: of sea level rising, so I think there is a 274 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: need and they probably have it. I will be surprised 275 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: if they don't have done a risk assessment to see 276 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: what are the threats or the plant So Bloodings Landslide 277 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: sea level rising, et cetera. Also, there is also the 278 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: situation that population may be growing surrounding the plants, so 279 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:02,479 Speaker 1: there's no room for expansion, so that I push operators 280 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: to maybe think of relocating a new West quad retainment plant. 281 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 4: We're on our drive at the moment to make sure 282 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 4: that we have as low as possible rates increase as 283 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 4: we can in the next financial year. When facebook situations 284 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 4: like this, we just have to make trade offs. And 285 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 4: there's a lot of stuff we've got in the pipeline 286 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 4: that would be nice to do, but the reality is 287 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 4: the council is going to have to say, look, there's 288 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 4: some stuff that we just can't do. Run into city 289 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 4: council that's going to have to foot the bill for 290 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 4: getting the plant back up and running further down the track, 291 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 4: but have to work out who might be responsible, who 292 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 4: might be liable, where we might keep contributions from. But 293 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 4: it will fall on will into city council in the 294 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 4: first instance. 295 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 2: Beyond investment, I suppose writing that you know those billions 296 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: and billions of dollars of chegs, how should New Zealand 297 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: rethink wastewater planning? 298 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: Well, as I mentioned before, the national standards with water 299 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: standards are I think in the right direction, because now 300 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: there is a matter of y is the the entity 301 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: that is now handling at the national level what we 302 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: do with our water and with water, so that can 303 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: be then a step in the right direction. Also, I think, 304 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: apart from the unfortunate event of this blockage at one point, 305 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: whether it was trading, also in the news listening in 306 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: the news, is that there was a situation of complaints 307 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: to the the charge. So I think it might be 308 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: just an operation. Actually it's not. Probably not like the 309 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: plant is necessarily too old. It's probably an operational problem. 310 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: So we need to pay more attention to that. So 311 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: we we even with the resources that we have, we 312 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: use it wisely properly. 313 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned before that a lot of the equipment 314 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 2: that they'll need to figure out what's wrong and kind 315 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: of fix the issue is coming in from overseas. Are 316 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 2: there any places overseas that are simply just doing it 317 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 2: better and that we should have a look at. 318 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: Well, there are some countries also, maybe I'm thinking maybe 319 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: countries with large coastal areas. Singapore has been for example, 320 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: it's smaller in terms of size country than New Zealands, 321 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: so this situation is different, but they have been doing 322 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: very well with the resources that they have, and I 323 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: think in New Zealand we have been also doing well 324 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: in the past, but I think we are now lagging 325 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: behind because we haven't been at the same pace as 326 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: the demands. So we're infrastructuralist aging. The population is growing. 327 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: There are some places I live in Royaliston near Characters 328 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: and the town has been growing very fast in the 329 00:19:54,440 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: last ten years. So the local water turning plant is 330 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: near to reach's capacity so many years before it was 331 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: initially planned. So this is against the situation where we 332 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: are behind the changes. But yeah, there are some examples. 333 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: I would probably think of Singapore as an example, but 334 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: again it's more of a local situation that need to 335 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: be considered. 336 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: There's always a real push to build up and build out. 337 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 2: So you mentioned Rolston obviously, and a lot of places 338 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 2: in North Canterbury have popped up over the years. You've 339 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: got Lincoln, You've got wood End, just things like that, 340 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: and you know everyone wants to build more houses. Make ever, 341 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: you know more people in Auckland, the populations growing. Is 342 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: it an issue of we get excited about these projects 343 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: and get excited about people moving places and living places, 344 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: and we tend to forget about the you know, the wastewater, 345 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 2: the boring stuff. 346 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: I suppose, yeah, you're right. Think with water is one 347 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: of these critical infrastructures that we actually probably don't don't 348 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: think about it, so even though it is quite important 349 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 1: for our daily lives, we just lost it and then 350 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: forget about it out of side, out of mind. So 351 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: and that usually leads to then also decision makers just 352 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: putting it behind in the priority by often will be 353 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: the things that are more visible, and that happens everywhere, 354 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: not only in New Zealand, but also yes, you're right. 355 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: So in terms of houses, I think it's a difficult situation. 356 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: On the one hand, we need to increase our housing 357 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: so we have a population that need houses, but also 358 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: we need to I think it's important not to continue 359 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: doing business as usual, so the way that we are 360 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: growing is not necessarily the best way, and it's putting 361 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: pressure on this kind of infrastructure. Is services like a 362 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: drinking water supply, like with water, then we have roads 363 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: and a number of things that we need to consider, 364 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: and usually those things are those services that are just 365 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: not at the forefront of the priorities. 366 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: It's difficult, isn't it, because when people have those conversations 367 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 2: about things being underfunded. Now you think about our hospital infrastructure, right, 368 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: and that's just a real crisis area. And if you 369 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: did have billions and billions of dollars to give away 370 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, like a genie just granted you 371 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: three wishes, people would generally go straight towards will. Hospitals 372 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: are underfunded. They've been underfunded for decades. You know, there's 373 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: mold in some hospitals in this country, and then you've 374 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: got classrooms, same situation, and wastewater is really yeah, it 375 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: does kind of sit at the back of the pack. 376 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, With so many needs and limited resources, it's 377 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: difficult to make the decisions. We have many needs, like 378 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: you're rightly highlighting over hospital infrastructure, it's also needs investment. 379 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: And if you ask people what are the priorities that 380 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: we're probably talking about that hospitals, they might be talking 381 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: about the situation of the world, maybe transport and so 382 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: on and so forth, and probably only a few of 383 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: them will be saying, okay, we need to improve with 384 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: water infrastructure because nobody sees it, so every we all 385 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: assume that it's working well, that's being care of, but 386 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: we sometimes don't know the real situation, and it's only 387 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: when this happens and then we don't have the service 388 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: so we can no longer use the toilet Los the 389 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: toilets will realize, Okay, this is actually important. Yeah, So 390 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: I think that that that puts this infrastructure in a 391 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: difficult situation. Also decision makers might find it difficult. So 392 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: I think it's important to make a national assessment of 393 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: priorities and then start investing wisely in what is actually needed. 394 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Raccato. 395 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: Thank you, and have a good day. 396 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 397 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 398 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot enz The Front Page is 399 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Chelsea daniels Kine. Dickie is 400 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and 401 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page 402 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: on the iheartapp or wherever you get your podcasts, and 403 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 2: join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.