1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: In news just out, the chair of the Reserve Bank 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: has quit after months of pressure over the handling of 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: the ex governor Adrianaw's resignation. The government this evening announced 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Neil Quigley has resigned with the mediate effect. The Finance Minister, 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Nicola Willis is with us now, Hi, Nikola. 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: Good evening, Heather. 7 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: Why did he quit? 8 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 2: Well? He tended his resignation to me today and he 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 2: noted that having completed a number of keywork streams for 10 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 2: the Bank, including the search for a new governor, that 11 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: he felt it was an appropriate time to hand over 12 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: to a new chair. 13 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: Did you ask him to quit? 14 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 2: No, but I had discussed with him ongoing criticism of 15 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: the Bank Board's handling of information relating to the exit 16 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: of the former governor. I had expressed to him my 17 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: concern that the Bank's reputation was being impacted, and he 18 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: had agreed with me that that was a serious matter. 19 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: And when had you expressed this to him, most recently 20 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: this afternoon? 21 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: What time. 22 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: I would have to to check to give you an 23 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: accurate accurate time? Would it be what the four three 24 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: o'clock or after three around that time? 25 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: And what time did he quit? 26 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: I received his resignation at four fifty five today. 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: So I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to 28 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: figure out it's your conversation that sparked him to resign. 29 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: Right. Look, I've had a couple of conversations with him today, 30 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,919 Speaker 2: but of course I've previously had conversations with him about 31 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: this matter. I've stated publicly that I have not been 32 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 2: satisfied with the way that the Reserve Bank had handled 33 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: Official Information Act requests relating to the exit of the 34 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: former governor. 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: Did you give him an ultimatum? 36 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: I wouldn't put it that way. I had expressed to 37 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: him clearly my views, and he had also expressed to 38 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: me that, with the government's decision to establish a new 39 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: medical school at the University of Waikato, that he did 40 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: want to be able to focus his efforts on work 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: for the university. And we've also together been in the 42 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: process of appointing a new governor, a process that we 43 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: both think is very important and that we didn't want 44 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: to see jepardized in any way. That process is well progressed, 45 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: and I have full confidence that that process will be 46 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 2: completed in the next few weeks. 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: If he hadn't resigned today, would you have withdrawn your confidence? 48 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: If mister Quigley had not offered his resignation, I would 49 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: have asked him for it. 50 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: Wow. Why Well? 51 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: As I've previously expressed, the Bank's handling of information requests 52 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: relating to the exit of the former governor did not 53 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: meet my expectations of transparency and of public accountability. I 54 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: had the opportunity late last night to review the Ombudsman's 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: ruling on this matter, the information that was subsequently released 56 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: by the Bank, and the Bank's press release relating to 57 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: those matters, and it did not meet my expectations for 58 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: how that matter should have been handled. 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: Did you not know? Did you know or did you 60 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: not know that Adrian Or had been sent a letter, 61 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: had stepped down from his role and Christian Hawksby had 62 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: taken over, and that he had left the office for 63 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: five days. 64 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: Did you know that I had been informed that letter 65 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: of concern had been shared with Adrian Orr and that 66 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: employment discussions were occurring. I have never seen that letter heither, 67 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: and it was my view that at the point the 68 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: Board had commenced those sorts of employment discussions with Adrian Orr, 69 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: it was really important to preserve the independence and the 70 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: reputation of the bank by not involving myself as a 71 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: minister in the board's deliberations on that employment matter. So 72 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: I intentionally distanced myself from that process, putting my faith 73 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: and trust in the Board to communicate effectively what had 74 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: happened when that time came, and as I've expressed, I'm 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: not happy with the way that that was ultimately done with. 76 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions now 77 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: so I can just get to the heart of something, right, So, 78 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: did you know that he'd stepped down and that Christian 79 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: had taken over, and that he was out of the 80 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: office for five days before he quit? Yes, okay, then 81 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: did if you knew that, then you must have known 82 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: when Neil stood up on the day that he quit 83 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: and said it was a personal decision, you must have 84 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: known Neil was wrong. 85 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: Well, ultimately, the decision for the Reserve Bank Governor to 86 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: resign was his decision, and that was his personal decision. 87 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: So shady. 88 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: That's so shady, though, isn't it? Because the truth is 89 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: he resigned because he got a letter and he was 90 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: basically in an employment situation. 91 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: Well, what I've been really conscious of is that where 92 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: there are legal issues relating to employment matters and where 93 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: there are exit agreements place between an employer and an 94 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: exiting employee, as was the case in this matter, that 95 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: anything that is said, any speculation in inference, needs to 96 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: be handled very carefully. And I thought, given I had 97 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: not seen that letter, given I did not know and 98 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: still have not seen that letter, had not seen the 99 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: contents of it, for me to speculate about what had 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: happened in any ensuing conversations that had occurred between the 101 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: Reserve Bank Governor and the board, that it would be 102 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 2: potentially jeopardizing the taxpayer for me to put myself in 103 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: the middle of it. 104 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: But were you bound by the NBA. 105 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: No, I was not. 106 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: So you're on our side. Wee've elected you right as 107 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: a country, even if we didn't vote for you. Guys, 108 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 1: you're on our side, and so you should be standing 109 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: there going, hey, Neil's not telling you the truth. This 110 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: isn't the truth. You should have been here. 111 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 2: I am on your side, and that is why I 112 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: have on several occasions reiterated my view that the bank 113 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: should seek to be as accountable, as transparent open as 114 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: possible about this matter. It was why which was why 115 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: when the Ombodsman made their ruling, because the view that 116 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 2: the bank had maintained throughout when my office, when the 117 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: Treasury had engaged with them to suggest that the way 118 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: they were responding to Official Information Act requests was inadequate, 119 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: the bank engaged their own legal advice and stress to 120 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: us that what they were doing was what was required 121 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: of them due to the employment arrangements in place now. Ultimately, 122 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: ultimately the Ombodsman has viewed that the public interest in 123 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: the matter was such that they should have waived that concern. 124 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: And it's my view that the way this matter has 125 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: been handled has not been of the standard I would expect, 126 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: has become a distraction and has ultimately had a negative 127 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: reputational effect for the bank. 128 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: I just don't know what I think. I asked you, 129 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: I have asked you on a number of occasions what 130 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: happened there, and I think you should have been upfront 131 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: about it as well. And I think I think cutting 132 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: meal quickly at this stage saves you. Bacon Billow only 133 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: just day, But can you now be clear with us 134 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: just on one thing. Adrian Or did not quit for 135 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: personal reasons. He quit because of the tenor of the 136 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: dialogue in those meetings, which led to him stepping down, 137 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: Christian taking over him leading the office, leaving the officers 138 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: for five days, and receiving a letter about his behavior 139 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: that is why. 140 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: He quit well. The timeline of events at the Reserve Bank, 141 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: released this week at the request of the Opson, makes 142 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: clear that employment conversations between the Reserve Bank Board and 143 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: Adrian Orr were precipitated in part by a letter from 144 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: the Board to Adrian Orr raising a number of concerns. 145 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: All right, listen, but I have. 146 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: Not seen that letter. Yep. I do not know the 147 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: full contents of that letter. I do not also know 148 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: what response Adrian Orr, either personally or via his lawyers, 149 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: gave to it. And I'm very conscious not to defame 150 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: anyone and to be careful about how I characterize that 151 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 2: letter when I have not seen it. 152 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, Nicola, and thank you for being so 153 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: frank with us this evening. Nichola Willis Finance Ministers for 154 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: more from hither duplessy Allen drive listen live to news talks. 155 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 156 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.