1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:16,107 Speaker 2: This weekend, the New Zealand Falcons are hosting the Purchase Cup, 4 00:00:16,187 --> 00:00:20,547 Speaker 2: the annual trans Tasman inclusive rugby tournament at Western Springs. 5 00:00:20,667 --> 00:00:23,547 Speaker 2: The Purchase Cup is named after Andrew Purchase, who founded 6 00:00:23,587 --> 00:00:26,907 Speaker 2: the Sydney Convicts Rugby Club, the first gay rugby union 7 00:00:26,907 --> 00:00:30,467 Speaker 2: club in Australia. He co founded Pride in Sport, the 8 00:00:30,467 --> 00:00:34,947 Speaker 2: world's first membership based program assisting sporting organizations with their 9 00:00:35,067 --> 00:00:40,027 Speaker 2: gender and sexuality diversity. He's the chair of its advisory committee. 10 00:00:40,067 --> 00:00:42,347 Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, he was awarded a Medal of the 11 00:00:42,467 --> 00:00:45,907 Speaker 2: Order of Australia for services to rugby union and to 12 00:00:45,987 --> 00:00:50,827 Speaker 2: the promotion of social inclusion for the LGBTI community. Earlier 13 00:00:50,827 --> 00:00:53,067 Speaker 2: this year he was appointed to the Board of Commissioners 14 00:00:53,347 --> 00:00:57,347 Speaker 2: of the Australian Sports Commission. Andrew Purchase is in studio 15 00:00:57,387 --> 00:00:59,787 Speaker 2: with us. Thanks for stopping in, Andrew. How long has 16 00:00:59,947 --> 00:01:02,467 Speaker 2: the Purchase Cup tournament been going, Jason. 17 00:01:02,227 --> 00:01:03,947 Speaker 3: Great to be here and thank you for having me on. 18 00:01:04,747 --> 00:01:08,507 Speaker 3: The first iteration was in two thousand and four and 19 00:01:08,547 --> 00:01:13,587 Speaker 3: there have been fourteen different stagings of the event with 20 00:01:13,707 --> 00:01:17,067 Speaker 3: a varying number of clubs competing over that period. 21 00:01:17,347 --> 00:01:19,347 Speaker 2: How often has it been held here in New Zealand. 22 00:01:19,987 --> 00:01:20,507 Speaker 2: This is the. 23 00:01:20,427 --> 00:01:24,667 Speaker 3: Second time it was held here in twenty fifteen, not 24 00:01:24,827 --> 00:01:30,307 Speaker 3: long after the Falcons kind of re emerged as New 25 00:01:30,387 --> 00:01:36,147 Speaker 3: Zealand's LGBTI of gay football rugby club. They stayed a 26 00:01:36,267 --> 00:01:39,387 Speaker 3: really successful tournament and in fact they won they won 27 00:01:39,867 --> 00:01:42,547 Speaker 3: the Cup that year being the Sydney Comic. So I 28 00:01:42,627 --> 00:01:46,427 Speaker 3: was certainly certainly a great effort and they've been a 29 00:01:46,467 --> 00:01:48,147 Speaker 3: great club for a long time and you know, we're 30 00:01:48,147 --> 00:01:50,147 Speaker 3: really excited to be here and they've put an enormous 31 00:01:50,147 --> 00:01:52,987 Speaker 3: amount of work to make this. I think the fourteenth 32 00:01:53,067 --> 00:01:55,067 Speaker 3: iteration of the event probably the best ever. And I 33 00:01:55,067 --> 00:01:58,347 Speaker 3: think we've got the most teams competing with six clubs 34 00:01:58,387 --> 00:02:01,627 Speaker 3: from Australia and New Zealand and eight teams in total 35 00:02:01,947 --> 00:02:04,387 Speaker 3: to be participating over the next couple of days. 36 00:02:04,627 --> 00:02:07,707 Speaker 2: How competitive is it? 37 00:02:08,147 --> 00:02:12,747 Speaker 3: Very All of the players really want to take over 38 00:02:12,787 --> 00:02:14,987 Speaker 3: the cup. So there are two divisions. There's the Cup 39 00:02:15,027 --> 00:02:19,227 Speaker 3: and the Shield division. And you know, the Cup is 40 00:02:19,467 --> 00:02:23,187 Speaker 3: for the it's kind of the premiere competition and the 41 00:02:23,267 --> 00:02:26,827 Speaker 3: Shield is the sort of second second competition. I think 42 00:02:27,067 --> 00:02:29,987 Speaker 3: one of the things that's been really pleasing with Gain 43 00:02:30,107 --> 00:02:33,467 Speaker 3: inclusive rugby has been, you know, the ability for clubs 44 00:02:33,507 --> 00:02:36,427 Speaker 3: to have multiple sides and actually been in a position 45 00:02:36,467 --> 00:02:38,467 Speaker 3: to be able to provide an opportunity for adults who 46 00:02:38,547 --> 00:02:41,867 Speaker 3: may not have played rugby before to actually learn the game. 47 00:02:41,907 --> 00:02:43,707 Speaker 3: And often you know, I think it's probably the same 48 00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:46,227 Speaker 3: in New Zealand, but in Australia, if you don't learn 49 00:02:46,267 --> 00:02:49,347 Speaker 3: as a as a kid at school or through junior 50 00:02:49,387 --> 00:02:52,587 Speaker 3: club rugby, it's often very difficult to learn as an adult. 51 00:02:52,667 --> 00:02:55,267 Speaker 3: But the gay, Gay and Inclusive teams have really made 52 00:02:55,507 --> 00:02:59,507 Speaker 3: an effort to create pathway pathways for people who want 53 00:02:59,547 --> 00:03:02,667 Speaker 3: to get involved in rugby where they can kind of 54 00:03:02,707 --> 00:03:05,867 Speaker 3: learn and develop the skills and learn how to play 55 00:03:05,907 --> 00:03:09,427 Speaker 3: a contact sport from scratch having had no experience. So 56 00:03:10,147 --> 00:03:13,267 Speaker 3: having two divisions provides the opportunity for clubs to have 57 00:03:13,467 --> 00:03:16,867 Speaker 3: those who have perhaps had some experience previously, have played 58 00:03:16,907 --> 00:03:19,827 Speaker 3: contact sport before, or are quick learners and can really 59 00:03:19,827 --> 00:03:22,347 Speaker 3: compete at a pretty high level. And then the shield 60 00:03:22,347 --> 00:03:25,547 Speaker 3: competition then, you know, provides the opportunity where teams of 61 00:03:25,627 --> 00:03:29,027 Speaker 3: a more equal standard and playing history can kind of 62 00:03:29,027 --> 00:03:32,627 Speaker 3: play it against each other, but regardless of the player's experience, 63 00:03:32,747 --> 00:03:34,667 Speaker 3: there's still a desire to want to do well. There's 64 00:03:34,667 --> 00:03:36,827 Speaker 3: still a desire to want to play rugby at a 65 00:03:36,907 --> 00:03:40,907 Speaker 3: high level and to kind and to win their games, 66 00:03:40,987 --> 00:03:43,347 Speaker 3: or at least to compete and to perform better than 67 00:03:43,347 --> 00:03:45,907 Speaker 3: they've better perform before. 68 00:03:47,867 --> 00:03:51,587 Speaker 2: How much have numbers of gay and inclusive rugby players 69 00:03:51,667 --> 00:03:55,067 Speaker 2: grown in the last no, last decade, Let's say. 70 00:03:55,947 --> 00:04:01,627 Speaker 3: The growth has been significant. My first involvement was back 71 00:04:01,667 --> 00:04:05,547 Speaker 3: in two thousand and one in San Francisco when gay 72 00:04:05,627 --> 00:04:08,347 Speaker 3: rugby was really just starting. I'd had a long rugby 73 00:04:08,387 --> 00:04:13,267 Speaker 3: background in Australia, playing club level and kind of community 74 00:04:13,267 --> 00:04:18,307 Speaker 3: based rugby. And then the first iteration of the Bingham Cup, 75 00:04:18,307 --> 00:04:22,547 Speaker 3: which is the World Cup of Gay Rugby. It started 76 00:04:22,547 --> 00:04:27,987 Speaker 3: in two thousand and two after the September eleven disaster 77 00:04:28,667 --> 00:04:32,187 Speaker 3: and it was founded by the San Francisco Fog. I 78 00:04:32,227 --> 00:04:33,947 Speaker 3: was living in San Francisco at the time, and it's 79 00:04:33,987 --> 00:04:36,867 Speaker 3: named after a guy called Mark Bingham who played with 80 00:04:36,907 --> 00:04:38,787 Speaker 3: the San Francisco Fog and I played with him the 81 00:04:38,787 --> 00:04:41,467 Speaker 3: first game that they competed in back in two thousand 82 00:04:41,507 --> 00:04:44,387 Speaker 3: and one, and he was one of the people who 83 00:04:44,907 --> 00:04:47,227 Speaker 3: were pretty sure was on that. Well, it was definitely 84 00:04:47,227 --> 00:04:49,987 Speaker 3: on the last plane that crashed. Two went in the 85 00:04:49,987 --> 00:04:51,987 Speaker 3: World Trades and one went into the Pentagon and that 86 00:04:52,667 --> 00:04:55,307 Speaker 3: plane crashed in the field in Pennsylvania, and we're very 87 00:04:55,307 --> 00:04:57,987 Speaker 3: confident that he was one of four people who overtook 88 00:04:58,027 --> 00:05:01,347 Speaker 3: the plane from the hijackers and crashed it into the field, 89 00:05:01,427 --> 00:05:05,147 Speaker 3: knowing that its intended destination was the White House. And 90 00:05:05,187 --> 00:05:08,467 Speaker 3: in honor of him, they started the BM Cup in 91 00:05:08,507 --> 00:05:12,147 Speaker 3: two thousand and two and there were six clubs competed, 92 00:05:12,307 --> 00:05:15,627 Speaker 3: eight teams all up, so that was the extent of 93 00:05:15,667 --> 00:05:17,747 Speaker 3: pretty much gay rugby around the world. Then we now 94 00:05:17,747 --> 00:05:21,587 Speaker 3: have about one hundred and fifty plus gay rugby clubs 95 00:05:21,627 --> 00:05:24,707 Speaker 3: around the world. The tenth the iteration of the BEM 96 00:05:24,747 --> 00:05:26,907 Speaker 3: Cup was held in Rome last year and I think 97 00:05:26,907 --> 00:05:29,547 Speaker 3: there are one hundred and fifty odd teams competing. So 98 00:05:30,627 --> 00:05:34,107 Speaker 3: around the world we've seen a significant increase in gay 99 00:05:34,107 --> 00:05:38,387 Speaker 3: and inclusive rugby, which has been fantastic in our region 100 00:05:38,387 --> 00:05:42,987 Speaker 3: in Australasia, you know, we've slowly developed more clubs. We 101 00:05:43,027 --> 00:05:50,267 Speaker 3: now have clubs from Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide and 102 00:05:50,347 --> 00:05:52,867 Speaker 3: of course the wonderful New Zealand Falcons. 103 00:05:53,307 --> 00:05:55,347 Speaker 2: When you were awarded the Middle of Order of Australia 104 00:05:55,347 --> 00:05:59,507 Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, you said, despite significant social advances and 105 00:05:59,547 --> 00:06:03,027 Speaker 2: the recognition of rights of gay and transgender people, discrimination 106 00:06:03,147 --> 00:06:06,547 Speaker 2: and sport continues to be both common and damaging. Have 107 00:06:06,667 --> 00:06:08,867 Speaker 2: things improved in the eight years since? 108 00:06:10,267 --> 00:06:13,227 Speaker 3: Yes? I think yes, definitely things have improved. I think 109 00:06:13,267 --> 00:06:18,747 Speaker 3: back in back around that period, in the mid noughties, 110 00:06:18,827 --> 00:06:22,147 Speaker 3: or around twenty fourteen twenty fifteen, at least in Australia, 111 00:06:22,307 --> 00:06:25,547 Speaker 3: I think New Zealand was probably ahead of us. Very 112 00:06:25,587 --> 00:06:29,027 Speaker 3: little had been done in the sporting environment. Significant progress 113 00:06:29,027 --> 00:06:33,307 Speaker 3: had been made in the corporate and business world. But 114 00:06:33,387 --> 00:06:35,747 Speaker 3: when we hosted the Bingham Cup in twenty fourteen, we 115 00:06:35,827 --> 00:06:40,427 Speaker 3: decided to put a real focus on LGBTI inclusion in 116 00:06:40,467 --> 00:06:43,747 Speaker 3: sport and we looked at the four football codes AFL, soccer, 117 00:06:43,907 --> 00:06:46,947 Speaker 3: rugby union, rugby league and cricket and none of them 118 00:06:46,947 --> 00:06:49,547 Speaker 3: had inclusion policies. They all had anti discrimination and anti 119 00:06:49,627 --> 00:06:53,187 Speaker 3: vilification policies, but none of them had made any positive 120 00:06:53,187 --> 00:06:56,427 Speaker 3: steps to recognize that there was a real barrier for 121 00:06:57,387 --> 00:07:00,947 Speaker 3: same sex attracted and tend to diverse people to actually 122 00:07:00,947 --> 00:07:04,867 Speaker 3: participate in sport, and we've seen a significant improvement, but 123 00:07:05,547 --> 00:07:08,467 Speaker 3: you know, still we've a long, long, long way to go. 124 00:07:08,587 --> 00:07:11,147 Speaker 3: If we just look at the number of our male 125 00:07:11,227 --> 00:07:15,147 Speaker 3: players across those codes, you know, it's virtually none. You know, 126 00:07:15,227 --> 00:07:17,747 Speaker 3: there've been a couple of high profile ex all blacks 127 00:07:17,747 --> 00:07:19,267 Speaker 3: who have come out over the last couple of years, 128 00:07:19,307 --> 00:07:23,187 Speaker 3: which has been fantastic, you know, recently in the Aflquacha 129 00:07:23,267 --> 00:07:25,547 Speaker 3: with the made news here, made news here, but Mitch 130 00:07:25,587 --> 00:07:29,467 Speaker 3: Brown came out he retired probably ten years ago. He 131 00:07:29,507 --> 00:07:32,547 Speaker 3: came out as bisexual, and that caused you know, significant 132 00:07:32,547 --> 00:07:36,147 Speaker 3: amount of interest. But I think the interest almost indicates 133 00:07:36,187 --> 00:07:39,467 Speaker 3: kind of how novel it is and how we've still 134 00:07:39,467 --> 00:07:41,267 Speaker 3: got a long way to go to create an environment 135 00:07:41,307 --> 00:07:45,787 Speaker 3: where people feel very well, people feel comfortable to express 136 00:07:46,067 --> 00:07:49,507 Speaker 3: their sexuality and also play sport. And I think a 137 00:07:49,587 --> 00:07:52,387 Speaker 3: consequence of that is there's been significant amount of self 138 00:07:52,387 --> 00:07:54,427 Speaker 3: selecting along the way. You know, some of the research 139 00:07:54,467 --> 00:07:56,907 Speaker 3: we did around the time of the Bingham Cup twenty 140 00:07:56,907 --> 00:08:02,627 Speaker 3: fourteen really indicated that the gay men, in particular, their 141 00:08:02,667 --> 00:08:06,627 Speaker 3: aversion to playing sport or feeling involved in sport is 142 00:08:06,707 --> 00:08:08,787 Speaker 3: very early and sometimes and it often starts at school 143 00:08:08,827 --> 00:08:11,987 Speaker 3: and pe classes. So I think where there's an awareness 144 00:08:12,387 --> 00:08:13,987 Speaker 3: of that there's a lot of work to do, and 145 00:08:14,027 --> 00:08:16,347 Speaker 3: there has been a lot of focus on it. We're 146 00:08:16,427 --> 00:08:18,747 Speaker 3: still a long way from being in a position where 147 00:08:19,267 --> 00:08:23,067 Speaker 3: the likes of the clubs that are competing in Auckland 148 00:08:23,067 --> 00:08:25,547 Speaker 3: in this weekend wouldn't necessarily need to exist. 149 00:08:25,707 --> 00:08:30,467 Speaker 2: Groundbreaking, very important work you're doing, Andrew. Look, it's a 150 00:08:30,667 --> 00:08:32,107 Speaker 2: cool thing to have it back in New Zealand for 151 00:08:32,107 --> 00:08:34,667 Speaker 2: just the second time out at Western Springs. All the 152 00:08:34,667 --> 00:08:36,307 Speaker 2: best for a wonderful couple of days and thanks for 153 00:08:36,307 --> 00:08:37,187 Speaker 2: stopping in for a chat. 154 00:08:37,507 --> 00:08:39,227 Speaker 3: Great and thank you for your interested in promoting the 155 00:08:39,227 --> 00:08:41,587 Speaker 3: event and encourage anyone who's listening to this is in 156 00:08:41,627 --> 00:08:43,947 Speaker 3: the area to come down, come down and check it 157 00:08:43,947 --> 00:08:48,067 Speaker 3: out and enjoy the festivities and no doubt enjoy some 158 00:08:48,107 --> 00:08:48,627 Speaker 3: great rugby. 159 00:08:49,667 --> 00:08:52,827 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 160 00:08:52,987 --> 00:08:56,267 Speaker 1: to News Talk said B weekends from midday or follow 161 00:08:56,267 --> 00:08:57,907 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.