1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Fraser Winner right. It was, of course, the chief executive 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: of Mercury Energy. Then he led to Sindardun's Business Advisory 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Council and now he's been spending his time redesigning key 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: we Savor into something that he thinks would be more 5 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: competitive with Australia. He's with us now, Hi Fraser, Hi Heather. 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Before we get into the details of how this is 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: going to work, just explain to me why you're doing this. 8 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: Well, when we're on that Business Advisory Council, we did 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: give some advice to Adern's government about taking Key we 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: Savior up another year. So I guess it's unfinished business 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: from twenty nineteen twenty twenty and I picked it up 12 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: about a year ago and thought we needed to give 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 2: this a nudge. And I've been talking with a lot 14 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: of people since. 15 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: How much time you're wrecking you spending on this, ah. 16 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: Hundreds of hours. I've met with more than thirty different 17 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: organizations from wide range right across the spectrum, Union, EWE, 18 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: PACIFICA Financial Services. Because they have something that's going to 19 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: last a long time, like retirement policy, it needs to 20 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: have a pretty broad consensus. 21 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Right, So you're actually building political support for your ideas 22 00:00:59,400 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: at which. 23 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: Doing well, try to build more, get all the ideas 24 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: and from a broad bunch of people who will even 25 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: be vote for different parties, because in the end long 26 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: dated policy at least twenty years plus. You need something 27 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: that's kind of more like a that had pass a 28 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: super majority referendum, something that appeals to seventy five percent 29 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,279 Speaker 2: of the electorate, not something that appeals to thirty five percent. 30 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Have you spoken to any politicians, not yet. 31 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: They aim was to build it up with a lot 32 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: of people. Check some bits on LinkedIn to get some 33 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: more feedback. And it's amazing how many people have freely 34 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: given their time to chat through experiences, the guy at 35 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: IOD who put it in place twenty years ago, etc. 36 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: So do all that, and then I've finished the policy 37 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: summary and that went to every political leader two weeks ago. 38 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: Okay, now tell me if I've got this roughly right. 39 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: This is just a summary of what I think the 40 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: plan is. So instead of starting the account the key, 41 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: we save our account when we start work. We open 42 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: the account the minute the baby is born. We put 43 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars in as the bonus, the starting bonus, 44 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: then one hundred bucks a year from the government every 45 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: year as long as the parents put one hundred bucks in, 46 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: and we pay for this by scrapping the two hundred 47 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: and sixty dollars a year that the government gives us 48 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: as workers. So we lose this as adult workers and 49 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 1: we forfeit to give it to the kids instead. Then 50 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: we end total remuneration contracts. So this has to be 51 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: above what you are paid by your employer. And within 52 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: twenty years we want to see employers paying not three 53 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: and a half percent, twelve percent, and it not be 54 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 1: contingent on what employees are putting in, just employers twelve percent. 55 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 56 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: That's correct? 57 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: Okay, do you think you will get political support from 58 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: politicians for this? 59 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: Well, the key the first thing I want to know 60 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: is is it affordable? And this is fiscally neutral at 61 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: the moment that two hundred and sixty dollars everyone's getting 62 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: for those that are participating in Kyi Savor if they 63 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 2: put in one thousand that got halved last year and 64 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 2: no one seemed to worry about it too much, and 65 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: so it's down tony a twenty five cents and a 66 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 2: dollar incentive for those that are already participating a whole 67 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: bunch of people aren't actually participating in kiwi saber, and 68 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: so that'd look at the half billion dollars that's spent 69 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: on that two hundred and sixty dollars and go, well, cracky, 70 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: I'm missing out. So I think it's better and more equitable, 71 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: get it and at birst when you've got sixty five 72 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 2: years of compounding in front of you. So all those 73 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: kids will get to eighteen, they'll be financially literate, they'll 74 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: have twenty to twenty five thousand in their kiwisaber and 75 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: they'll all be kind of lined up like a good 76 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: league defense there head. So you know it won't be 77 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: that summer ahead and some are behind. They'll all be 78 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: feeling very good about having a crack at the future. 79 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: So is it physically neutral? Yes, do we get up 80 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: to about twelve percent of gross which is what you 81 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: need from an actu aerial basis to enjoy a good 82 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: stand of living in retirement. There is sort of almost 83 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: a respective what happens NZ super. Yes, that twelve percent 84 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: is about the right number. And do I hear anyone 85 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: in Australia in Canada saying you know what I think 86 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: we've got the superannuation thing wrong. Let's just give it up, 87 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: don't think so. So I've climbed the mountain over a 88 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: long period of time and that's why it's going to 89 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: take twenty years to get to twelve percent. It has 90 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: to be done very gently on that radio because otherwise 91 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: you'll blow the radiator going up the hill. 92 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so I know that I know that you want 93 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: to end total remuneration contracts, which is it's fine to 94 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: say that out loud, but this will depress our pay packets, 95 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: won't it. I mean, instead of taking a pay rise, 96 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: we're not going to get a pay rise, we're going 97 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: to get it's just going to go into key. We 98 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: save every year and they'll they'll sell it to us 99 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: like that, the employers. 100 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: Well, the thing is from the experience in Australian Canada. Yeah, 101 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: there's no free lunch. If a little bit more is 102 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: getting taken out of the system and going into your 103 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: own account. And by the way, that's where there's no uncertainty. 104 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 2: The money does end up in your own key. We 105 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: saver your account a little bit. Some of us will 106 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: come from wages. You won't get as high a pay raise. 107 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: That's what actually happens. In some instances, the price of 108 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: something will be higher, like a haircut, and in some 109 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 2: instances the returns to shareholders will be lower. So the 110 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: cost of adding half a percent a year over twenty 111 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: years to go from two percent next year to twelve 112 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 2: percent in twenty forty seven, that does come from somewhere, 113 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: but it does end up in an individual's account, so 114 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: there's no uncertainty about the destination. See, yes, you do 115 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: get some wage, you will get some slight wage depression 116 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 2: because of this. 117 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: So is your timing off on this phraser because it's 118 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: a fantastic idea, and I think we all know that 119 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: the young people leaving to Australia, part of the reason 120 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: they're going is higher wages but also higher super But 121 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: as you're timing off, because what you're telling us is 122 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: we have to do this thing that keeps our wages 123 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: lower and adds to inflation at a time where everybody 124 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: is bloody strapped for cash. 125 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: Well, the great thing is, as Q say at two 126 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: point nine, actually backs up the bus because a few 127 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: people never got on it, a few people have fallen 128 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: off of it. More will fall off, but probably when 129 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: the number goes from three to three and a half tomorrow, 130 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: and so this actually goes back to a point which says, 131 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: if you're an employee, put in whatever you want, and 132 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: so they don't necessarily need to put that, and this 133 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 2: is from twenty twenty seven. If you're an employer, you've 134 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: got to put in two percent. So that's not it 135 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: the three and a half. It's back at two. But 136 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: then everyone agrees and has the twenty year compact that's 137 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: going on. 138 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. So you actually way to 139 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: twenty fourty. You lighten the pressure first, and then you 140 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: start applying the pressure in around about four years. 141 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, because we've got to go back and 142 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: pick everyone up that we left behind. And we can't 143 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 2: suddenly whack the employers all in at a compulsory three 144 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: and a half or employees employees all in at three 145 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: and a half, because then they're probably going to get 146 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 2: a five percent wage chart on a t REM contract. 147 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: So we have to back the bus up slightly. But 148 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 2: then all agree we're going to go through to twenty 149 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: forty seven, and when we're there, I think we'll enjoy 150 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: the view. 151 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: Okay, so when's your first meeting with a politician. 152 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 2: Well, hopefully we'll hear back from them shortly and I'll 153 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: follow them up. They've been very busy dealing with a 154 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: with a stuck straight up he moves and the consequences 155 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: of that. So but there is an election later this year, 156 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: so hopefully they'll be wanting to think about some good 157 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: multi partisan policy that I think Keywis will get them 158 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: behind it. Certainly. It deals with other things like parental 159 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: leaven and another thing here to call the ibefa loophole, 160 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: which I can explain another time. 161 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: If you have, I will have to park that. But 162 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: I think I think that sounds like an interview in 163 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: and of itself. Fraser, thank you very much appreciated and 164 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: good work putting all this work in this phrase A winner, 165 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: a former Mercury Energy chief executive. 166 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 167 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 168 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio