1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: More than half of apprenticeship trainees in this country are 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: dropping out before getting their qualification. The Vocational Education Minister 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: told the Training Research Forum that the government is wasting 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: time and money. Penny Simmons is the Vocational Education Minister, 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: joining me now, Penny, good afternoon. 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Ryan. 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: That's terrible, isn't it. How half of them dropping out? 8 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Why are they dropping out? 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it is terrible. Look for various read reasons, 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: and it's different by industry and it's different by employers. 11 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: So we know the main things that keep young people 12 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: in apprenticeships, and it's things like being feeling that they're 13 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: well supported, feeling that they are part of a team, 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: feeling that they're part of an organization. And also their 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 2: pay makes a difference as well, so we know the 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 2: things that help them to stay there. But it's also 17 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: a reflection of the previous government paid a lot in 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: terms of apprentice boost to get young people into apprenticeships 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: during that COVID period. That pushed up the numbers going 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: in and a lot of them were not that serious 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: about their apprenticeship and didn't complete. So that's been a 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 2: bit of a waste. 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: What did that cost us? How much are we wasting 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: on these apprentices not finishing. 25 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: Well. It's tens of millions, probably getting close to hundreds 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: of millions, so it's quite a lot of money. But 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 2: it's a waste all round. Really. It's a waste to 28 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: the individual that might start an apprenticeship and not finish it. 29 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: They might have spent a year or two gaining skills 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 2: in an area and then not finishing it. It's a 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: waste for the government, but it's also a waste for 32 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: the employer. So we've got to work together. And that's 33 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: why I signaled that I am wanting some research done 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: on it next year by the industry Skills Boards to 35 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: really figure out what gets better outcomes for apprentices because 36 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: we know in some of the European countries where apprenticeships 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: have been around a long time, they get up to 38 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: eighty percent completion. So we need to lift that number 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: from fifty percent or less than fifty up to somewhere 40 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 2: close to that eighty percent. 41 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: What has it been what is it normally? 42 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: Look it, it's always been relatively low, but when the 43 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: government gave those incentives for people to go into apprenticeships, 44 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: it certainly increased the numbers going in, but didn't increase 45 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: the completions. In fact, it dropped as a proportion their completions. 46 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 2: So from what's tunneling more? 47 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: How serious it's? 48 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: Look, I haven't got it in front of me, but 49 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: it was. It was a good enough number that it 50 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 2: really brought into question the value of the apprentice boost, 51 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: which is why we scaled it back a bit and 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: made it much more focused. 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: Penny, how much do they get paid in apprentice trainee? 54 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: Oh? Look, it varies by employeer, but it's at the 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 2: lower end. There's a rate that you can play apprentices 56 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: that is lower than the minimum wage, a training wage 57 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: if you wish to, but it varies. There are some 58 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: employers that pay their apprentices either training, either the minimum 59 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 2: wage or a living wage, so it depends on each employer. 60 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: Appreciate your trying, Penny Simmons, the vocational education message. For 61 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news 62 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the 63 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.