1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: One of the more eye opening stats that's come out 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: of the scrutiny week at Parliament this week is the 3 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: factor quarter beneficiaries been paid incorrectly. Only seventy seven point 4 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: six percent are on the money. The target is ninety 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: five percent, So no Christmas party for them this year. 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Criminal Advice Bureau Criminal Advice Citizens' Advice Bureau Deputy CEO 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: Andrew Hubbard is with us. Andrew, very good morning. 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: To you, Cira, Mike, how are you very well? 9 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: Imagine if you were called the Criminal Advice Bureau different anyway, Listen, 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: what's gone wrong here? Has this been I take it 11 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: this doesn't happened yesterday. This is an ongoing thing. 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: Right, yes, although one of the I think most disappointed 13 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: things has actually been got worse over the last several years. 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: So instead of heading towards the ninety five percent, heading 15 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 2: away from it, which is a serious problem. 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: Is this nurse's robo pay. All the complexities we've seen 17 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: around pay and this is just another example of it. 18 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: I mean, that's definitely part of the factor. I think 19 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: if we look at you know, there's thirty thousand more 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: people on income support in the last year and no 21 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: increase in the start to deal with that. And so 22 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: you know what we're seeing is you know, really struggling 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: to be to talk to a real person to address 24 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: the problem if you do to come across one in 25 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: your payment. 26 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: Is it fair to suggest that, as I understand the 27 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: beneficiary system, it's complex. It's not just you know, you 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: just get a thing, you can apply for all sorts 29 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: of different things available to you, and it's that complexity 30 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: that will be the problem. 31 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: Yes, that's definitely a huge component of the problem. I 32 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: was thinking of an example of a client who we 33 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: dealt with very recently, who had applied, was struggling financially, 34 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: had applied to some extress supplementary benefit which she got 35 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: given to her, and then four days later she gets 36 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 2: a different ly there from Work and Income saying they've 37 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: overpaid her on some other element of a benefit. And 38 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: now that is that has a one and a half 39 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: thousand dollars debt to work an income they're going to 40 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: take away from the benefit they disclosed her. And so 41 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: we see lots of situations like that, And. 42 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Here's the problem that causes stress, doesn't it in difficult times? 43 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: It's thing you need, yeah, exactly, And so you know, 44 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: we're really concerned. In the last five years or so, 45 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 2: debt to MSD's almost doubled, and a lot of that 46 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: is to do with overpayments that you know, quite frankly 47 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: shouldn't be you know, the people who've been over at 48 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: Paige shouldn't be held responsible for that. Mostly it's to 49 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: do with a change of circumstances. Maybe they've been a 50 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: week late, or it's taken MSD time to catch up 51 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 2: with the change that they've told them about, and yet 52 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: they are then facing a debt which comes out of there. 53 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: You know, people are already struggling on the amount they 54 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: get from working income and then they get a debt 55 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: taken off there, and it's just it's counterproductive. 56 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: Do you have any sense of whether anybody's on top 57 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: of this and going, actually, seventy seven is not good 58 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: enough and we are correcting it and it will be 59 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: sorted by X. 60 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it will be fair to say 61 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 2: that this stat wasn't surprise for us from our in 62 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 2: directions with clients over the last year. You know, we've 63 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 2: been seeing what we really are concerned aout is the 64 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 2: level of inconsistency. Depending on who you talk to and 65 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: so you know, we are concerned that you know, there's 66 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: no apparent change for the better in the situation. 67 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: Oh all right, Well, I've got the Prime Minister on 68 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: the program tomorrow, so we'll we'll put that to him 69 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: and see what he's up to. Andrew Hubbard, who's the Citizens' 70 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: Advice Bureau Deputy Chief Executive. 71 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, Listen live to 72 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 73 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.