1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Politics Time Politics Wednesday. Ginny Anderson with us along with 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Mark Mitchell. Morning to both of you, journey Mark, I'll 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: ask both of you, but given you on the role 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: currently Mark, this this headhunter's thing yesterday, fifteen million dollars 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: worth of assets are having to be seized, et cetera, 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: et cetera. Is there something wrong with the law in 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: this country that needs amending that you can surely see 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: an operation of that size and ask yourself the obvious question, 9 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: which is I wonder if they went to work to 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: earn all that money, and then having answered it with 11 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: the word no, why isn't that stuff enacted faster? 12 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: Well, I mean it is. So the law has changed 13 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 2: back in two thousand and nine around that round proceeds 14 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: of crime. So the outcome that the judges ruling is 15 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: very very good. Sends a very clear message to gains 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: that if they want to appropriate property through ill gotten 17 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: games in the state, and the police are going to 18 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 2: take ettion on that. But of course we're constantly sort 19 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: of scanning the horizon and looking at legislation and seeing 20 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: whether or not it needs improvement, especially in justice and 21 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: public So. 22 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: To Ginny, do you argue the laws of find the 23 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: way they are. 24 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: We changed them after most recently in the last couple 25 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 3: of years, so that we flipped the owner. So the 26 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 3: criminal their cues has to prove what they got was 27 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: got legally. Was previously you needed forensic accountants to try 28 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: improve that they'd got it illegally. So it is much 29 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 3: easier now for those processes for restraining and forfeiting illegal 30 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: button gains. 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: So is it mark just the wheels of justice turned 32 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: too slowly, because I mean, I'm that building that's been 33 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: seized now that that's been there for years. 34 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: Yes, ten, Yeah, So the short answer is, yes, the 35 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: wheels of justice are turning too slowly, and obviously there's 36 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: there's a big folks we're doing as the incoming government 37 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: to make that more efficient. 38 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: Because it just it's almost struck me as a sort 39 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: of ironic Jenny that I know where these guys get 40 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: their Harley Davidson's from, and it's not from good, legitimate work, 41 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: So why are they driving them? 42 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 3: We're pleased to a good dog, and I think flipping 43 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 3: that owner so the crominal now has to prove they've 44 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: got it legally makes it a lot easier for police. 45 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: I've been to the warehouse where they have all the 46 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: stuff that have had and they hold it there until 47 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: the court case is completed. So while they'll take it 48 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: put it in the warehouse, they still have to go 49 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: through that process of proving it before they can sell it, 50 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: and the problem often is it depreciates over that time. 51 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: But just interestingly in that warehouse is actually a tank 52 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 3: the police have are confiscated a tank of someone and 53 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: it's sitting in there, so waiting for that one to. 54 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: Make that fuld trade. 55 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: Yeah you could. 56 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: You never know what you get for a tank, mark, 57 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: are you sorry? Carry on? 58 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: Just the other thing that we are doing is that 59 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: when that legislation went through, a part of the legislation 60 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: that Jilly was talking about went through the government's the 61 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: threshold of thirty thousand dollars above the advice against the 62 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: advice of the place, the police said we won't. So 63 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: we're looking at changing that because you know it'll be 64 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: it'll mean that it's far more effective. Okay in terms 65 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: of being able to see zis ginny. 66 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: This oil and gas debate. Hipkins comes out yesterday say 67 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: if you get back into power, you're going to ban 68 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: it once again. What do you tell the people who 69 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: are losing their jobs, you know right now, literally losing 70 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: their jobs because their employer can't afford to pay power. 71 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: We don't have the gas, we don't have the supply, 72 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: and what you were advocating for maybe one day works, 73 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: that's fantastic. Right now it doesn't. What do you say 74 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: to them. 75 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 3: The problem we have is that there hasn't been any 76 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 3: new discovery of guests for over twenty years. And it's 77 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: not for lack of trying. But even if we did 78 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 3: find a natural guess, it'll be another five to ten 79 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 3: years before it came online. So just pointing to LNG 80 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: as a solution is not it's not going to affect that. 81 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: The problem we've got is those large generator retailers who 82 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: are focused on mex To my Hair profits and when 83 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: we have a cold dry wind tilot we've got, they 84 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: rub their hands because they make a good profit on 85 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 3: that debt. That's the market that's broken. 86 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: Well, it's okay, So why didn't you fix the market 87 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: when you had succeeds. 88 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: To do it. 89 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: This has been an ongoing This has been an ongoing 90 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 3: issue of generations, and part of the issue is that 91 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: we need a variety of different ways of addressing it. 92 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 3: So you need solar, you need wins, you need GFRM 93 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 3: or and so there are a number of projects that 94 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: have been consented that are a new ways of generating electricity. 95 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: But Genny, this is all the theory. This is what 96 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: I've been hearing from you for the last six years. 97 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: And I get, I mean, I disagree with you that 98 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: the market's broken, but be that as it may. The 99 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: fact is right here, right now, we cannot produce power 100 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: in this country that companies can afford, and people are 101 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,559 Speaker 1: losing their jobs to those people. 102 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 3: You say, what, it's a significant problem for New Zealand, 103 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: and we need to invest in more solar, more people 104 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: being able to generate schools, hospitals. That's that's the way 105 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 3: forward is to have other forms of generation that's not 106 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 3: relying on hydro and to utify that. And we will 107 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: have we need to have more cross partty agreement on 108 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 3: how we get here. 109 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 1: Okay, Mark, you say what new oil and guess. 110 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: A look, energy shortages are driving electricity prices higher, so 111 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: you know we have to take it. Should secure abundant, 112 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: affordable energy that families and businesses can rely on and 113 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: actually have certainty around and luckily most families have been 114 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: insulated by the recent price sites, but the impact on 115 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: businesses has been significant. And at the end of the day, 116 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: our plan is to unleash the energy we need, myke, 117 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: whether it's renewable soul or wind and hydro or the natural. 118 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: Guess we need to keep the light on instead of 119 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: dirty Indonesian coal. 120 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: Problem you've got now is in trying and Shane Jones 121 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: has talked about this a lot in the house is 122 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: the problem is you've got to go out into the 123 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: world and you go, right, we're open for business, come 124 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: on and there as a license start exploring why would 125 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: they when Hipkins yesterday said the moment we get back, 126 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: it's off. 127 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: So Ginny Anderson just said this should be a bi 128 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: partisan approach to this. Totally agree. So let's see them 129 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: step forward so that we'll agree to give us some certainly, 130 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 2: so that we can get the investment that we need 131 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 2: our energy sector, so that we're not placed in a 132 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: position like we're a banana a public and we can't 133 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: deliver the energy that we need in our country. 134 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: And that's the problem, though, Jenny, isn't it with with 135 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: bipartisan approaches. You've got to be sort of in the 136 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: same room on this. You're not you do you do? 137 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: And part of the issue we have is the fact 138 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: that they haven't found any LNG for twenty years, and 139 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 3: even for you to get it, it's not going to 140 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 3: suck the current problem. So you need a mixture. And 141 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: I think that we're investing in bigger solar projects and 142 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 3: wind is important to New Zealand given our geography and 143 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: the benefits we have to generate energy. But I think 144 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 3: it's it's unacceptable. It's completely unacceptable that we have big 145 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 3: scale businesses in New Zealand that's limiting our productivity because 146 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: we're there and able to get the power. They need 147 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: to keep it. 148 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: Exactly, but do we accept it all your energy policies. 149 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: It's mark You know that because you know that twenty 150 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 3: years we haven't found LNG. So you can cross fingers 151 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: and hope they're going to find some ling and great, 152 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 3: you know if you do that, but the chances are 153 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: pretty limited. That's not the solution to the problem we're facing. 154 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: And if you think it's the we're never gonna move. 155 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: But here's just let me step in the middle. You 156 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: guys seem to be an agreement. We're all actually, we 157 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: all seem to be an agreement. Renewables are a good idea, 158 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: and if we all had solar, and we all had wind, 159 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: and we all had some hydro and stuff, all of 160 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: that's fantastic. But the problem is we don't, and we've 161 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: been caught badly short in the transitionary period. And part 162 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: of the ANSWER's lerg and part of the answers something 163 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying. See what I'm saying. So 164 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: what you're still arguing ideology, Jenny, but people are losing 165 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: their jobs while you argue it. 166 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: That's right, and you need a transition fuel, and we 167 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: do have natural guess and that's what we should be 168 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: using instead of the coal. And that's it's just it's ironic. 169 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: It's ridiculous that you've got, specially a labor governments supported 170 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: by the Greens, that we're having to portant news coal 171 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: and we've got natural guess. So there is natural guess 172 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: available and it's our transition energy and we should have 173 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: been using it instead of having I don't know it 174 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: canceled and you and you canceled any exploration or any 175 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 2: harvesting of a of a fuel that we actually need. 176 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: In No, we didn't. We stopped. We got new license, 177 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: so that I was looking at you. 178 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: Jilly once again, that's ideology. All the people with licenses 179 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: gave them back. They're packed up and went home. They 180 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: saw there's no we're gone. 181 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: What would you so? What? 182 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: What isn't your government invested in solar power? Why don't 183 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: we have schools? 184 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: Hospital? 185 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: We're first, but there are large process but they're a 186 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: large process problem. 187 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 2: The problem is the problem is this. If there's no 188 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: sun and there's no rain and there's no wind, then 189 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: what do you need a transition energy that is able 190 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: to fill the gap? And these energy policies have put 191 00:08:58,880 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: us in an awful position. 192 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: Quick question before we end, Mark Carmel Seppaloni double dipping 193 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: on Treasure Island scandal or not? 194 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: No comment? 195 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: Why is it so if she if she wants to 196 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: as a politician, If you want to go and do 197 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: some television and get paid for that while you're being 198 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: paid as an MP, that's okay according to. 199 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 2: You, that's something for the Labor Party and for the 200 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: lead of the Labor Party to sort out and figure out. 201 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 2: You know, we're paid to do a job, and it's 202 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: a serious job and you should take it seriously. 203 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: Well, she donates to that time to charity. 204 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's once everyone said, hey, how come you 205 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: double dipping? She and she suddenly discovered a charity she 206 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: was going to get to. 207 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 3: Said was her appearance and too cellary at the time, Right, 208 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 3: do you have. 209 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: Time to appear on television reality television? 210 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: But I would definitely watch it if you were on it, Mike, 211 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 3: because if you're in Treland, I think everyone would watch. 212 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: That would be really you'd take it out question. 213 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: There was no question. That's no question I want, of course, 214 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: And I don't know you guys, you're so off track. 215 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: Ginny Anderson Mark Mitchell. 216 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 217 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 218 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.