1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:11,973 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks at B. 2 00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:16,373 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,813 --> 00:00:22,053 Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle, It's Rugby Direct with 4 00:00:22,253 --> 00:00:24,573 Speaker 1: Elliott Smith, powered by news Talks at B. 5 00:00:24,773 --> 00:00:27,973 Speaker 2: Welcome into RPY Direct, power by Excess Solutions, salivating you 6 00:00:28,093 --> 00:00:31,613 Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Back with you 7 00:00:31,733 --> 00:00:35,893 Speaker 2: from across Capetown and indeed New Zealand. After the All 8 00:00:35,893 --> 00:00:38,853 Speaker 2: Blacks so went down eighteen points to twelve to South 9 00:00:38,893 --> 00:00:42,013 Speaker 2: Africa in the second game of this two of the 10 00:00:42,013 --> 00:00:46,013 Speaker 2: fourth game with the Rugby Championship, it's a loss that 11 00:00:46,093 --> 00:00:48,213 Speaker 2: consigns the All Blacks the three defeats in their last 12 00:00:48,333 --> 00:00:51,653 Speaker 2: four full straight defeats of South Africa. The Freedom Cup 13 00:00:51,693 --> 00:00:54,213 Speaker 2: goes back to South Africa for the first time since 14 00:00:54,293 --> 00:00:58,613 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. All sorts of things to unpack 15 00:00:58,693 --> 00:01:02,813 Speaker 2: once again. Liam, Greetings from Cape Town and look at 16 00:01:02,853 --> 00:01:06,013 Speaker 2: another loss for the All Blacks in similar risk condition, 17 00:01:06,453 --> 00:01:08,293 Speaker 2: you know, circumstances to the last. 18 00:01:09,813 --> 00:01:14,253 Speaker 3: That's all another week, another deflating defeats, isn't it And 19 00:01:14,333 --> 00:01:19,133 Speaker 3: as you say, very similar circumstances and the trophy cabinet. 20 00:01:19,173 --> 00:01:22,933 Speaker 4: You meant to rattle off some stats there for some seventy. 21 00:01:22,613 --> 00:01:25,813 Speaker 3: Five years that fullbacks have lost four times in a 22 00:01:25,893 --> 00:01:32,213 Speaker 3: row to South Africa and Raises Tenya is looking you know, teetering, 23 00:01:32,373 --> 00:01:37,733 Speaker 3: isn't it. He was came riding a wave of goodwill 24 00:01:37,813 --> 00:01:40,133 Speaker 3: and public support and he will certainly be feeling the 25 00:01:40,173 --> 00:01:43,453 Speaker 3: heat now on the trophy cabinet looking very bad. There's 26 00:01:43,453 --> 00:01:46,213 Speaker 3: going to be no Rugby Championship, no freedom cut, so 27 00:01:46,933 --> 00:01:48,133 Speaker 3: only the Blairs low left. 28 00:01:48,853 --> 00:01:51,693 Speaker 2: Indeed it is and cheaper is We'll get to the 29 00:01:51,773 --> 00:01:55,413 Speaker 2: Australia Argent send to result of it later on, but yeah, 30 00:01:55,573 --> 00:01:57,933 Speaker 2: I mean, surely that can't go this year. But anyway, 31 00:01:58,013 --> 00:02:00,493 Speaker 2: let's focus on the spring Box game first and foremost, 32 00:02:00,573 --> 00:02:03,293 Speaker 2: and for Megleam, this was a tale of just not 33 00:02:03,373 --> 00:02:05,933 Speaker 2: taking opportunities. I think the All Blacks had plenty of them, 34 00:02:05,973 --> 00:02:10,293 Speaker 2: plenty of opportunities or around the spring Box red zone 35 00:02:11,013 --> 00:02:13,933 Speaker 2: they could have capitalized on. They weren't good enough to 36 00:02:13,933 --> 00:02:16,333 Speaker 2: take those opportunities. They missed the penalty that would have 37 00:02:16,373 --> 00:02:20,973 Speaker 2: got in front. So ultimately, you know, similar to last week, 38 00:02:20,973 --> 00:02:24,533 Speaker 2: they were good enough to win that Test match but didn't. 39 00:02:24,573 --> 00:02:26,173 Speaker 2: It's not though I were blowing off the park. There 40 00:02:26,213 --> 00:02:29,293 Speaker 2: theres thereabouts but it was the critical moments that they're 41 00:02:29,333 --> 00:02:30,533 Speaker 2: just not nailing at the moment. 42 00:02:32,173 --> 00:02:36,693 Speaker 3: Well that's there's once again, the All Blacks were dominant 43 00:02:36,733 --> 00:02:38,973 Speaker 3: in the first half and I think one of the 44 00:02:39,013 --> 00:02:43,053 Speaker 3: major concerns coming into this two tests series was how 45 00:02:43,133 --> 00:02:46,053 Speaker 3: the All Blacks would compete physically, because the forward pack 46 00:02:46,373 --> 00:02:51,933 Speaker 3: had struggled against England at home. Didn't really you know, 47 00:02:52,013 --> 00:02:56,773 Speaker 3: might have got parody at most. They were beaten at 48 00:02:56,773 --> 00:02:59,293 Speaker 3: the breakdown and the loss to the Pumas, and Wellington 49 00:02:59,693 --> 00:03:02,213 Speaker 3: obviously responded the following week, but going up against the 50 00:03:02,213 --> 00:03:05,933 Speaker 3: world champions on their on their home court, very physical 51 00:03:06,253 --> 00:03:08,533 Speaker 3: prow West. As we know, the spring box and the 52 00:03:08,573 --> 00:03:12,013 Speaker 3: All Blacks forward pack has been a revelation, a real 53 00:03:12,093 --> 00:03:15,493 Speaker 3: success on this tour. They fronted physically, they competed well, 54 00:03:15,533 --> 00:03:18,893 Speaker 3: they laid a platform and it's actually been the back line, 55 00:03:18,973 --> 00:03:22,053 Speaker 3: the decision making and the final quarters. The final quarter 56 00:03:22,093 --> 00:03:26,013 Speaker 3: collapses again. This is a fourth Test in succession where 57 00:03:26,013 --> 00:03:27,933 Speaker 3: the All Blacks have failed to score a point in 58 00:03:27,973 --> 00:03:28,773 Speaker 3: the final quarter. 59 00:03:29,173 --> 00:03:31,933 Speaker 4: You mentioned the McKenzie kick, he missed three. 60 00:03:32,773 --> 00:03:35,613 Speaker 3: I've got question marks about why Jordi Barrett wasn't taking 61 00:03:35,653 --> 00:03:39,853 Speaker 3: the long kicks and then Obviously the All Blacks did 62 00:03:39,933 --> 00:03:42,813 Speaker 3: well to build pressure. There was a Scott Barrett drop 63 00:03:42,893 --> 00:03:46,333 Speaker 3: ball just completely slipped through his hands. There was a 64 00:03:46,373 --> 00:03:50,213 Speaker 3: line out era from Ardie Severe and then the McKenzie 65 00:03:50,253 --> 00:03:53,213 Speaker 3: missed penalty from thirty meters out bang in fronts. You know, 66 00:03:53,333 --> 00:03:56,053 Speaker 3: those are the kicks that you have to take. And 67 00:03:56,093 --> 00:03:58,613 Speaker 3: then the box come home late through Malcolm Marx. So 68 00:03:59,893 --> 00:04:04,613 Speaker 3: is it as much a mental failing for the All Blacks? 69 00:04:04,653 --> 00:04:08,293 Speaker 3: Are they wilting under the pressure more so than anything 70 00:04:08,373 --> 00:04:08,813 Speaker 3: else here? 71 00:04:09,693 --> 00:04:10,693 Speaker 5: It's quite possibly it. 72 00:04:12,013 --> 00:04:13,853 Speaker 2: And you look back, I mean, I think that's the 73 00:04:13,933 --> 00:04:16,173 Speaker 2: early two thousands where they just didn't quite have it 74 00:04:16,253 --> 00:04:20,013 Speaker 2: mentally over a very very good Wallaby side and they 75 00:04:20,053 --> 00:04:23,613 Speaker 2: went able to nail those key moments, and you think 76 00:04:23,853 --> 00:04:27,173 Speaker 2: years straight they're lost on Toto Kefu. 77 00:04:28,813 --> 00:04:30,413 Speaker 5: Try and Matt Book penalty. 78 00:04:30,453 --> 00:04:32,213 Speaker 2: They seem to lose right at the very end in 79 00:04:32,213 --> 00:04:34,253 Speaker 2: those key matches and at that point it was sort 80 00:04:34,293 --> 00:04:37,613 Speaker 2: of they didn't have a mental fortitude to close out 81 00:04:37,613 --> 00:04:40,933 Speaker 2: those test matches. And I think that is where they're 82 00:04:40,933 --> 00:04:43,053 Speaker 2: at at the moment. They just don't quite have that 83 00:04:43,133 --> 00:04:45,773 Speaker 2: killer instinct that great All Blacks teams have. And indeed 84 00:04:45,813 --> 00:04:48,653 Speaker 2: this great Spring Box team does have it at the moment. 85 00:04:48,733 --> 00:04:52,893 Speaker 2: They you know, can go ten rounds a few maybe 86 00:04:52,893 --> 00:04:55,013 Speaker 2: be almost on the canvas, but they rise up and 87 00:04:55,053 --> 00:04:57,813 Speaker 2: they deliver the knockout blue when it really matters, and 88 00:04:57,853 --> 00:05:02,613 Speaker 2: that's what great rugby teams do. And I agree with 89 00:05:02,613 --> 00:05:04,893 Speaker 2: Scott robertson the fact that he says they're not far away, 90 00:05:04,893 --> 00:05:08,533 Speaker 2: but test rugby is a game of inches, and you're 91 00:05:08,533 --> 00:05:10,733 Speaker 2: not far away can feel like a million miles away. 92 00:05:10,893 --> 00:05:14,173 Speaker 2: And what we've seen over the last couple of weeks 93 00:05:14,213 --> 00:05:16,573 Speaker 2: is the All Blacks could be leaving South Africa, you know, 94 00:05:16,733 --> 00:05:20,253 Speaker 2: in theory, with two wins and no defeats. As it happens, 95 00:05:20,293 --> 00:05:24,133 Speaker 2: they're zero to two from the tour, and Rugby Championships 96 00:05:24,133 --> 00:05:26,653 Speaker 2: gone and the Freedom Cup has gone. So it's a 97 00:05:26,653 --> 00:05:28,973 Speaker 2: game of fine margins. And I think the thing for 98 00:05:28,973 --> 00:05:31,093 Speaker 2: the All Blacks is now is they have to get 99 00:05:31,093 --> 00:05:33,373 Speaker 2: those fine margins right. They have to get their mental 100 00:05:33,813 --> 00:05:37,173 Speaker 2: side of the game switched on again, and they have 101 00:05:37,213 --> 00:05:39,333 Speaker 2: to learn how to close out test matches. Something's not 102 00:05:39,533 --> 00:05:42,373 Speaker 2: right in those last twenty minutes of test matches. They 103 00:05:42,453 --> 00:05:46,373 Speaker 2: changed the bench around this week, bench didn't really have 104 00:05:47,133 --> 00:05:49,773 Speaker 2: too much of an impact this time of round so 105 00:05:49,893 --> 00:05:54,413 Speaker 2: and Sandarry didn't come on from the bench. So whether 106 00:05:54,453 --> 00:05:57,533 Speaker 2: that's the answer, whether it's it's you know, the bench 107 00:05:57,613 --> 00:06:00,213 Speaker 2: or whatever it is, there was changes made and it's 108 00:06:00,253 --> 00:06:02,053 Speaker 2: the same story as the previous week. 109 00:06:03,133 --> 00:06:04,933 Speaker 3: I want to touch on the bench there because for me, 110 00:06:05,053 --> 00:06:08,573 Speaker 3: it was very bizarre use of the bench. The All 111 00:06:08,573 --> 00:06:12,933 Speaker 3: Blacks props, I think both of them, certainly Tyrrel Lomax 112 00:06:12,973 --> 00:06:16,373 Speaker 3: because he got the late yellow card, paid seventy plus minutes. 113 00:06:16,733 --> 00:06:18,533 Speaker 3: You know, when's the last time you saw an All 114 00:06:18,533 --> 00:06:21,413 Speaker 3: Blacks prop go that deep into the game. I think 115 00:06:21,413 --> 00:06:24,893 Speaker 3: Fletchereneul might have played five or ten minutes. As you say, 116 00:06:24,933 --> 00:06:28,053 Speaker 3: Sam Darry didn't even come on off between a fussy 117 00:06:28,653 --> 00:06:31,933 Speaker 3: you know, barely used as well. So you know, the 118 00:06:31,973 --> 00:06:35,533 Speaker 3: All Blacks did reshape the bench and with Bodenbarro and TJ. 119 00:06:35,613 --> 00:06:39,893 Speaker 3: Perternaro there but some very bizarre substitutions or lack of 120 00:06:40,373 --> 00:06:42,493 Speaker 3: and that again goes back to the point that we 121 00:06:42,533 --> 00:06:45,333 Speaker 3: made last week about the lack of trust in the 122 00:06:45,373 --> 00:06:48,653 Speaker 3: bench and when you're coming up against the bomb squad 123 00:06:49,333 --> 00:06:52,773 Speaker 3: and we all know how vaunted they are, that was 124 00:06:52,813 --> 00:06:55,573 Speaker 3: bizarre for me. You know, the All Blacks props to 125 00:06:55,653 --> 00:06:59,253 Speaker 3: Mighty Williams and Tyrrel Lomax did very well throughout that test, 126 00:06:59,693 --> 00:07:02,653 Speaker 3: but I think there was an element of fatigue in 127 00:07:02,693 --> 00:07:06,893 Speaker 3: the Box winning some late scrum penalties and Tyrrel Lomax 128 00:07:07,093 --> 00:07:10,933 Speaker 3: given away that late yellow cards. I don't think there's 129 00:07:10,973 --> 00:07:13,093 Speaker 3: any need for the All Blacks props to be playing 130 00:07:13,093 --> 00:07:14,493 Speaker 3: seventy plus minutes. 131 00:07:14,893 --> 00:07:15,573 Speaker 5: No, I don't think so. 132 00:07:15,613 --> 00:07:18,013 Speaker 2: I think they've got too able replacements in the form 133 00:07:18,053 --> 00:07:20,413 Speaker 2: of Offer and Fletcher that can come on. I thought 134 00:07:20,453 --> 00:07:23,493 Speaker 2: that was an interesting one. We haven't heard further about 135 00:07:23,493 --> 00:07:25,853 Speaker 2: a stuff when Cody Taylor I thought was the best 136 00:07:25,853 --> 00:07:28,973 Speaker 2: player in the park for the All Blacks in that game, 137 00:07:29,093 --> 00:07:32,213 Speaker 2: and he played all the game bar that time it 138 00:07:32,293 --> 00:07:34,253 Speaker 2: was off for an Hia and I did see a 139 00:07:34,253 --> 00:07:37,093 Speaker 2: suffer one more getting some treatment later in that periods 140 00:07:37,133 --> 00:07:38,933 Speaker 2: on the pitch, so maybe he wasn't fit to return. 141 00:07:38,973 --> 00:07:41,933 Speaker 2: But regardless, I mean, Cody Taylor was in ridiculous form 142 00:07:42,493 --> 00:07:43,933 Speaker 2: in that game yesterday, so I can. 143 00:07:43,893 --> 00:07:46,093 Speaker 5: Understand why they didn't. 144 00:07:46,293 --> 00:07:50,573 Speaker 2: I guess we should pay respect to South Africa as well, 145 00:07:50,613 --> 00:07:52,893 Speaker 2: because I think this is a very very good spring 146 00:07:52,933 --> 00:07:55,973 Speaker 2: Box team and probably not getting the plaudits they deserve 147 00:07:56,653 --> 00:07:58,533 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. I mean, this is a team that 148 00:07:58,573 --> 00:08:00,693 Speaker 2: won a world championship last year and has just got 149 00:08:00,693 --> 00:08:03,533 Speaker 2: even better the year following. Reminds me a little bit, 150 00:08:03,733 --> 00:08:05,733 Speaker 2: to be honestly, in of twenty sixteen and the All 151 00:08:05,733 --> 00:08:07,893 Speaker 2: Blacks won the previous year. They had some retirements but 152 00:08:08,413 --> 00:08:12,533 Speaker 2: actually kicked on and performed even better in twenty sixteen. 153 00:08:12,733 --> 00:08:16,213 Speaker 2: So this is a very very good box team deserving 154 00:08:16,213 --> 00:08:18,733 Speaker 2: of their rugby championship win. That'll be rubber stamped, you 155 00:08:18,733 --> 00:08:21,093 Speaker 2: would think at some point in the next couple of 156 00:08:21,173 --> 00:08:24,413 Speaker 2: weeks once they get some points against Argentina. But this 157 00:08:24,493 --> 00:08:27,253 Speaker 2: is a box team that is imperious at the moment 158 00:08:27,373 --> 00:08:31,413 Speaker 2: and is running world rugby and leading the charge. 159 00:08:32,333 --> 00:08:33,413 Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent earlier. 160 00:08:33,493 --> 00:08:35,453 Speaker 3: I think there's a case to be made that this 161 00:08:35,653 --> 00:08:40,093 Speaker 3: is one of, if not the greatest spring box eras 162 00:08:40,373 --> 00:08:43,333 Speaker 3: and teams of all time. And there has been some 163 00:08:43,413 --> 00:08:46,893 Speaker 3: great South African teams down the years when you go 164 00:08:47,013 --> 00:08:51,333 Speaker 3: back in time, but their list of achievements, the depth 165 00:08:51,373 --> 00:08:55,093 Speaker 3: that they've built, you know, you can forget about how 166 00:08:55,133 --> 00:08:58,813 Speaker 3: many changes they made between Test one and two against 167 00:08:58,813 --> 00:09:00,733 Speaker 3: All Blacks here. They did the same when they were 168 00:09:00,773 --> 00:09:05,293 Speaker 3: in Australia, vastly different starting teams. They brought about Hondro 169 00:09:05,373 --> 00:09:07,973 Speaker 3: Pollard and Willie LaRue. I think it was five or 170 00:09:08,013 --> 00:09:11,933 Speaker 3: seven starting changes from Alice Park to Cape Town and 171 00:09:12,533 --> 00:09:17,013 Speaker 3: usually that would be disruptive. But their ability to know 172 00:09:17,133 --> 00:09:20,973 Speaker 3: their game, their depth of character and in a belief 173 00:09:21,573 --> 00:09:25,373 Speaker 3: they have been twice overturn leads against the All Blacks 174 00:09:25,373 --> 00:09:29,133 Speaker 3: and never really looked rattled. Obviously came over the top 175 00:09:29,173 --> 00:09:32,733 Speaker 3: and in the back end of those last quarters. So 176 00:09:33,253 --> 00:09:35,333 Speaker 3: you're right, we do need to pay tribute to this 177 00:09:35,413 --> 00:09:39,133 Speaker 3: box team. But we did see Ireland go out there 178 00:09:39,173 --> 00:09:43,173 Speaker 3: in July and respond from a first Test loss to 179 00:09:43,293 --> 00:09:47,253 Speaker 3: win their second test. So I think, you know, there's 180 00:09:47,253 --> 00:09:49,573 Speaker 3: a question mark around this All Black team, and I 181 00:09:49,653 --> 00:09:52,933 Speaker 3: think this is another reality check about just where New 182 00:09:53,053 --> 00:09:57,773 Speaker 3: Zealand rugby at the elite level is at. Maybe they 183 00:09:57,853 --> 00:10:02,573 Speaker 3: are I think world number three maybe currently, but maybe 184 00:10:02,573 --> 00:10:05,853 Speaker 3: there's even question marks about that because right now you 185 00:10:05,973 --> 00:10:08,933 Speaker 3: have to say Islands and South Africa are ahead of them. 186 00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:10,573 Speaker 4: Maybe France as well. 187 00:10:11,133 --> 00:10:13,333 Speaker 3: England came down and there was a ding dong battle 188 00:10:13,373 --> 00:10:16,133 Speaker 3: in July here wasn't there, So there's a bit of 189 00:10:16,173 --> 00:10:18,253 Speaker 3: ground for this All Black team to make up and 190 00:10:18,493 --> 00:10:21,013 Speaker 3: just on you mentioned Cody Taylor there. You know, I 191 00:10:21,013 --> 00:10:23,213 Speaker 3: don't want to be too critical, so we'll have some 192 00:10:23,253 --> 00:10:28,053 Speaker 3: positives in here, you know, keep keep the mood up somewhat. 193 00:10:28,053 --> 00:10:32,213 Speaker 3: But Cody Taylor toop by coming of age tour. For him, 194 00:10:32,333 --> 00:10:36,573 Speaker 3: he was absolutely outstanding. Again, I thought Sam Kane was 195 00:10:36,613 --> 00:10:39,933 Speaker 3: good to Mighty Williams and Wallace a TC in his 196 00:10:39,973 --> 00:10:41,933 Speaker 3: first start. I think he missed a couple of tackles, 197 00:10:41,973 --> 00:10:46,213 Speaker 3: but in the unfamiliar role of blindside, I thought he 198 00:10:46,293 --> 00:10:50,853 Speaker 3: really stood up, physically, carried well, never looked overawed. So 199 00:10:51,413 --> 00:10:54,653 Speaker 3: he's got to be a long term prospect that he 200 00:10:54,733 --> 00:10:57,653 Speaker 3: has to be in that's the composition of that loose 201 00:10:57,733 --> 00:10:58,853 Speaker 3: Ford trio going forward. 202 00:10:59,213 --> 00:11:00,733 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he was excellent. 203 00:11:00,733 --> 00:11:03,093 Speaker 2: Obviously the miss tackles aside, and you can kind of 204 00:11:03,133 --> 00:11:04,733 Speaker 2: forgive that to an extent given the. 205 00:11:06,093 --> 00:11:07,573 Speaker 5: First test start and everything like that. 206 00:11:07,613 --> 00:11:10,013 Speaker 2: Obviously it's a pressure burner environment, but I thought he 207 00:11:10,093 --> 00:11:12,253 Speaker 2: was press cooker environment suny. But I thought he was 208 00:11:12,333 --> 00:11:16,533 Speaker 2: absolutely superb in that start and he took his opportunities 209 00:11:16,573 --> 00:11:18,893 Speaker 2: and black Head are ruled out with a minor handstring injury. 210 00:11:18,893 --> 00:11:24,173 Speaker 2: Another issue for Ethan alongside his other ones he's had 211 00:11:24,173 --> 00:11:27,293 Speaker 2: throughout the course of his career. But SOA Titi stood 212 00:11:27,333 --> 00:11:29,773 Speaker 2: up and I suppose leading into that those players you 213 00:11:29,853 --> 00:11:32,453 Speaker 2: mentioned they are perhapsical, with the exception of Taylor and Kin, 214 00:11:32,893 --> 00:11:36,013 Speaker 2: a lot of them are young. And is this maybe 215 00:11:36,093 --> 00:11:37,853 Speaker 2: where the all Blacks now need to go? I mean, 216 00:11:38,293 --> 00:11:41,693 Speaker 2: they won't say it outright, we can sort of speculate 217 00:11:41,853 --> 00:11:44,293 Speaker 2: on it, but you know, should they I mean the 218 00:11:44,493 --> 00:11:46,893 Speaker 2: kind of halfway house for a rebuild at the moment? 219 00:11:47,413 --> 00:11:50,693 Speaker 2: Is it time to go full not baby blacks necessarily, 220 00:11:50,733 --> 00:11:53,893 Speaker 2: but give some of these younger players a shot. And 221 00:11:54,093 --> 00:11:56,333 Speaker 2: because clearly they're taking their chances at the moment, some 222 00:11:56,373 --> 00:11:59,893 Speaker 2: of those younger players they're putting in and look to 223 00:11:59,933 --> 00:12:00,773 Speaker 2: the future a little bit. 224 00:12:02,053 --> 00:12:04,493 Speaker 4: It is it is one hundred percent time for that 225 00:12:04,533 --> 00:12:05,093 Speaker 4: to happen early. 226 00:12:05,173 --> 00:12:08,733 Speaker 3: I think it's been a really conservative selection ste for 227 00:12:08,813 --> 00:12:11,693 Speaker 3: Scott Robinson and you can understand that to a degree, 228 00:12:11,973 --> 00:12:15,973 Speaker 3: but there hasn't been enough evolution. He's you know, when 229 00:12:15,973 --> 00:12:19,453 Speaker 3: you look at the selections of TJ. Petinara and Sam 230 00:12:19,533 --> 00:12:23,293 Speaker 3: Kine to a lesser extent, he has picked for the 231 00:12:23,373 --> 00:12:26,133 Speaker 3: now and the need to win test matches now or 232 00:12:26,133 --> 00:12:31,053 Speaker 3: what he believes is necessary in this moment. But you're right, 233 00:12:31,133 --> 00:12:34,053 Speaker 3: the youth is what's actually performing for this All Black team. 234 00:12:34,093 --> 00:12:37,613 Speaker 3: Wallace a tit was another example. Peter Luckeye should be 235 00:12:37,653 --> 00:12:41,533 Speaker 3: in the squad for me, the really missing cam royguards. 236 00:12:41,893 --> 00:12:44,493 Speaker 3: He'll be back for the Northern Tour. But I also 237 00:12:44,573 --> 00:12:47,333 Speaker 3: think Billy Procter has to get a crack at center. 238 00:12:47,653 --> 00:12:50,373 Speaker 3: I think Riekowane could move out to the wing because 239 00:12:50,413 --> 00:12:52,613 Speaker 3: we need to talk about this All Black back three. 240 00:12:52,933 --> 00:12:54,453 Speaker 4: They were very, very. 241 00:12:54,293 --> 00:12:57,933 Speaker 3: Underwhelming when they exposed under the high ball. Will Jordan 242 00:12:57,973 --> 00:13:00,933 Speaker 3: looks really short of a gallop after missing the whole 243 00:13:00,973 --> 00:13:03,813 Speaker 3: Super Rugby season. He was quite on the wing last week, 244 00:13:04,013 --> 00:13:07,053 Speaker 3: looked very uncomfortable at times at fallback. But just the 245 00:13:07,053 --> 00:13:09,733 Speaker 3: makeup of that back three for the All Blacks, they 246 00:13:09,733 --> 00:13:12,133 Speaker 3: were peepered with the high ball. They got exposed there. 247 00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:14,533 Speaker 3: It would be very very surprised if we saw that 248 00:13:14,573 --> 00:13:15,573 Speaker 3: back three start again. 249 00:13:15,973 --> 00:13:18,773 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think we'll see that in Sydney or Wellington. 250 00:13:18,853 --> 00:13:24,013 Speaker 2: Look at severy Reese deserved yellow card for that takeout 251 00:13:24,013 --> 00:13:25,973 Speaker 2: in the year. You can see maybe what he's trying 252 00:13:26,013 --> 00:13:29,893 Speaker 2: to do, but he completely misjudged it. March Talia is 253 00:13:30,533 --> 00:13:33,293 Speaker 2: not the player he was certainly in All Blacks Jersey 254 00:13:33,573 --> 00:13:35,653 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. Even last year just seems 255 00:13:35,693 --> 00:13:39,813 Speaker 2: to have not quite got where he needs to be 256 00:13:40,613 --> 00:13:43,853 Speaker 2: this season, just doesn't seem to have that instinct with 257 00:13:43,893 --> 00:13:47,533 Speaker 2: born hand, hasn't been searching for work, made a couple 258 00:13:47,533 --> 00:13:52,133 Speaker 2: of errors in Cape Town here, so and then Will Jordan, 259 00:13:52,213 --> 00:13:55,293 Speaker 2: You're right, I think this looks out of sorts a 260 00:13:55,293 --> 00:13:57,373 Speaker 2: little bit at the moment. And you know hasn't played 261 00:13:57,413 --> 00:14:00,173 Speaker 2: a lot of rugby this season. You just wondered whether 262 00:14:00,253 --> 00:14:03,173 Speaker 2: some more rugby under his belt he can begin to improve. 263 00:14:03,293 --> 00:14:05,693 Speaker 2: It's it's only read the test arenderm where he can 264 00:14:05,733 --> 00:14:08,933 Speaker 2: get it. But maybe he goes and help out Tasma 265 00:14:08,973 --> 00:14:12,213 Speaker 2: with a shield challenge your shield defense next weekend against Wellington. 266 00:14:12,213 --> 00:14:14,373 Speaker 2: I don't know, but I think game times and is 267 00:14:14,373 --> 00:14:15,853 Speaker 2: the thing that Will Jordan needs to be a big 268 00:14:15,853 --> 00:14:17,853 Speaker 2: ass room to go halfway around the world and do that. 269 00:14:17,893 --> 00:14:21,413 Speaker 2: But he does look just not the player we know 270 00:14:21,533 --> 00:14:23,613 Speaker 2: he is, and I'm sure he'll get back to there 271 00:14:23,653 --> 00:14:27,733 Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But I think you two tests he's had 272 00:14:27,733 --> 00:14:29,733 Speaker 2: at full back starting now, I think the jury is 273 00:14:30,213 --> 00:14:33,893 Speaker 2: firmly out over whether that is the role that he 274 00:14:34,013 --> 00:14:38,253 Speaker 2: is destined for in this all blacks environment. I agree 275 00:14:38,253 --> 00:14:41,373 Speaker 2: about Billy Proctor. I think they need something in midfields. 276 00:14:41,413 --> 00:14:43,293 Speaker 2: I thought Antonine and Brown performed well when he came 277 00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:47,293 Speaker 2: off the bench, but I think someone like a Billy 278 00:14:47,293 --> 00:14:48,733 Speaker 2: prop dick and add a real edge to the all 279 00:14:48,733 --> 00:14:50,933 Speaker 2: Blacks and midfield. We saw he had a great game 280 00:14:50,973 --> 00:14:54,493 Speaker 2: against the Figians and San Diego hasn't been cited since. 281 00:14:55,813 --> 00:14:57,813 Speaker 2: I think putting him out against the Wallabies would be 282 00:14:58,613 --> 00:15:01,733 Speaker 2: a big boost for this it's all blacks back line. 283 00:15:02,173 --> 00:15:02,373 Speaker 5: Liam. 284 00:15:02,413 --> 00:15:05,133 Speaker 2: The Prenier question is obviously around the All Blacks and 285 00:15:05,373 --> 00:15:11,053 Speaker 2: not having South Africans Scythes and Super been missing that physicality. 286 00:15:11,093 --> 00:15:14,053 Speaker 2: Having seen this tour here, seeing the twenty twenty two tour, 287 00:15:14,413 --> 00:15:17,653 Speaker 2: obviously the World Cup final last year, where are you 288 00:15:17,693 --> 00:15:19,133 Speaker 2: at her on this whole debate? 289 00:15:21,333 --> 00:15:24,253 Speaker 3: Look, I think it's it is an issue in terms 290 00:15:24,253 --> 00:15:30,053 Speaker 3: of preparation for the elite arena Test arena that It's 291 00:15:30,133 --> 00:15:34,533 Speaker 3: clear Australian Super rugby teams are several rungs down. The 292 00:15:35,293 --> 00:15:37,013 Speaker 3: lack of competitiveness. 293 00:15:37,053 --> 00:15:38,053 Speaker 4: There has been. 294 00:15:38,413 --> 00:15:42,493 Speaker 3: A deep seated frustration, but I think South Africa's exit 295 00:15:43,293 --> 00:15:46,933 Speaker 3: has been rewritten to a degree. Yes, it came about 296 00:15:47,013 --> 00:15:50,173 Speaker 3: because of COVID and New Zealand Rugby. Maybe I think 297 00:15:50,173 --> 00:15:52,293 Speaker 3: they forced the issue, but I think it would have 298 00:15:52,293 --> 00:15:55,253 Speaker 3: happened anyway. South Africa had a desire to hear north 299 00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:59,333 Speaker 3: because of the time zone, and I think that would 300 00:15:59,333 --> 00:16:03,133 Speaker 3: have always happened. And I think the physicality aspect is 301 00:16:03,213 --> 00:16:06,933 Speaker 3: somewhat overblown. I think if you look across New Zealand rugby, 302 00:16:06,133 --> 00:16:09,253 Speaker 3: there are the athletes there and I think when we 303 00:16:09,293 --> 00:16:13,293 Speaker 3: look at this tour, physicality hasn't been an issue. It's 304 00:16:13,333 --> 00:16:16,493 Speaker 3: been the last quarters. It's been the decision making, the 305 00:16:16,573 --> 00:16:21,893 Speaker 3: ill discipline, you know, the lack of accuracy that the 306 00:16:21,933 --> 00:16:25,533 Speaker 3: final quarter meltdowns. That's been the issue. So yes, in 307 00:16:25,573 --> 00:16:29,773 Speaker 3: an ideal world, New Zealand would have greater exposure to 308 00:16:29,853 --> 00:16:32,373 Speaker 3: South Africa. I think they're going to get that in 309 00:16:32,413 --> 00:16:35,853 Speaker 3: the coming years with more touring and the like. But 310 00:16:36,093 --> 00:16:38,413 Speaker 3: it's never going to change now. We can't go back 311 00:16:38,413 --> 00:16:41,613 Speaker 3: in time. They're not coming back to Super Ragby. So 312 00:16:41,693 --> 00:16:43,613 Speaker 3: it's about what can you do now. 313 00:16:44,413 --> 00:16:47,693 Speaker 2: It is and I think not I mean, I agree 314 00:16:47,733 --> 00:16:50,173 Speaker 2: with you on most those points there. I think around 315 00:16:50,213 --> 00:16:55,973 Speaker 2: South Africa it's been rewritten a significant amount. And this 316 00:16:56,013 --> 00:16:59,213 Speaker 2: is a very very good spring Box team we're watching 317 00:16:59,413 --> 00:17:01,213 Speaker 2: at the moment, and the All Blacks team are not 318 00:17:01,293 --> 00:17:03,453 Speaker 2: quite there, but it's not like their poles apart. I 319 00:17:03,493 --> 00:17:07,333 Speaker 2: think you look at Australia or in Argentina that result 320 00:17:07,373 --> 00:17:09,333 Speaker 2: this morning, look at South Africa in the way they 321 00:17:09,373 --> 00:17:14,693 Speaker 2: played Australia earlier on in this rugby Championship, that's a 322 00:17:14,733 --> 00:17:17,933 Speaker 2: bigger gap between those two. So while there are issues, 323 00:17:18,373 --> 00:17:20,333 Speaker 2: I'm sure it plays a little bit of a factor 324 00:17:20,453 --> 00:17:23,853 Speaker 2: the All blacksmissing South African experience super level, but I 325 00:17:23,893 --> 00:17:25,813 Speaker 2: don't think it's the be all and endul I think 326 00:17:25,813 --> 00:17:27,533 Speaker 2: the big issue for the All Blacks and you mentioned 327 00:17:27,533 --> 00:17:30,693 Speaker 2: some players there, but I think it's producing those big 328 00:17:30,733 --> 00:17:33,333 Speaker 2: body types that were actually struggling with at the moment 329 00:17:33,373 --> 00:17:37,333 Speaker 2: in New Zealand rugby, those big imposing body types, and 330 00:17:37,773 --> 00:17:41,573 Speaker 2: we just simply don't have the likes of body for 331 00:17:41,653 --> 00:17:43,453 Speaker 2: you that the South Africans are able to call on 332 00:17:43,533 --> 00:17:47,133 Speaker 2: and that are getting rugby game time. It's while we 333 00:17:47,213 --> 00:17:49,133 Speaker 2: people are looking at you know, Fabian Holland, who is 334 00:17:49,173 --> 00:17:51,773 Speaker 2: still more than a year away from being eligible to 335 00:17:51,813 --> 00:17:55,493 Speaker 2: play for the All Blacks, that New Zealanders just aren't 336 00:17:55,493 --> 00:17:57,373 Speaker 2: those big body types wh aren't getting them playing on 337 00:17:57,373 --> 00:17:59,333 Speaker 2: the rugby fields at the moment. I think that's the 338 00:17:59,333 --> 00:18:01,893 Speaker 2: big issue for New Zealand rugby. A lot of playing basketball, 339 00:18:02,133 --> 00:18:05,013 Speaker 2: a lot aren't playing sport at all. So if you 340 00:18:05,053 --> 00:18:06,813 Speaker 2: get more of those sort of body types on the 341 00:18:06,893 --> 00:18:10,013 Speaker 2: rugby fields, that's going to try into better games of 342 00:18:10,053 --> 00:18:12,253 Speaker 2: the domestic level, better games of the Super rugpy level. 343 00:18:12,253 --> 00:18:15,973 Speaker 2: Bigger players, you're playing those players more often. I think 344 00:18:16,093 --> 00:18:18,533 Speaker 2: that's the that's the real telling issue for New Zealand 345 00:18:18,573 --> 00:18:21,533 Speaker 2: rugby is finding these bigger bodies and getting them into 346 00:18:21,533 --> 00:18:23,613 Speaker 2: the mixes. Why they've targeted Josh Lord. You know, he's 347 00:18:23,613 --> 00:18:26,733 Speaker 2: barely played NPC was Super Rugby for the last three 348 00:18:26,813 --> 00:18:29,733 Speaker 2: or four years through injuries and various things. But he's 349 00:18:29,773 --> 00:18:32,093 Speaker 2: a kind of frame that they believe can be converted 350 00:18:32,093 --> 00:18:33,133 Speaker 2: into a test footballer. 351 00:18:34,853 --> 00:18:37,093 Speaker 5: And so I think that's the ultimate one for the 352 00:18:37,133 --> 00:18:37,573 Speaker 5: All Blacks. 353 00:18:37,573 --> 00:18:40,573 Speaker 2: No doubt missing some of that phasicalty's key, but towards 354 00:18:40,573 --> 00:18:42,693 Speaker 2: the end of Super Rugby, those South African teams weren't 355 00:18:42,773 --> 00:18:44,053 Speaker 2: much chop anyway. 356 00:18:44,973 --> 00:18:45,613 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 357 00:18:45,653 --> 00:18:50,213 Speaker 3: I think some of those records are you know, looked 358 00:18:50,213 --> 00:18:52,453 Speaker 3: at through roast and glasses. Some of the South African 359 00:18:52,733 --> 00:18:56,173 Speaker 3: teams were canon fighter to a certain degree. Wentn't they 360 00:18:56,933 --> 00:18:58,293 Speaker 3: blown out of the water when you look at the 361 00:18:58,653 --> 00:19:01,333 Speaker 3: cheatahs and the likes. So it wasn't like they were 362 00:19:01,573 --> 00:19:04,053 Speaker 3: coming down to New Zealand and knocking over teams here 363 00:19:04,093 --> 00:19:07,933 Speaker 3: on a regular basis. So yeah, one one question I 364 00:19:07,973 --> 00:19:10,133 Speaker 3: want to put to you we haven't touched on really 365 00:19:10,733 --> 00:19:14,213 Speaker 3: an overarching view of Scott Robinson's tenure to day So 366 00:19:14,853 --> 00:19:17,893 Speaker 3: four and three as it stands. You mentioned his record 367 00:19:17,933 --> 00:19:21,533 Speaker 3: before in terms of lost, what is it three of 368 00:19:21,613 --> 00:19:25,933 Speaker 3: the last four we've seen, you know, Leo McDonald exit abruptly. 369 00:19:26,453 --> 00:19:29,813 Speaker 3: What's his demeanor been like in South Africa in terms 370 00:19:29,853 --> 00:19:31,493 Speaker 3: of following these defeats. 371 00:19:31,973 --> 00:19:33,493 Speaker 4: How do you think he's handling the pressure? 372 00:19:33,533 --> 00:19:36,133 Speaker 3: Because it always was going to be a massive step 373 00:19:36,133 --> 00:19:38,773 Speaker 3: step up from Super rugby to the Test scene. So 374 00:19:38,813 --> 00:19:41,613 Speaker 3: what's he been like from your perspective, how do you 375 00:19:41,653 --> 00:19:44,333 Speaker 3: think he's handling the pressure cooker of Test rugby? 376 00:19:44,573 --> 00:19:48,693 Speaker 2: Well, I think he's frustrated because he can see it 377 00:19:48,813 --> 00:19:53,093 Speaker 2: almost coming together and it's not quite there and he 378 00:19:53,133 --> 00:19:55,013 Speaker 2: can see, you know, they scored one or two of 379 00:19:55,053 --> 00:19:58,373 Speaker 2: those opportunities or purity goal goes over, then they win 380 00:19:58,413 --> 00:20:00,253 Speaker 2: the Test match yesterday, or they put themselves in at 381 00:20:00,333 --> 00:20:02,773 Speaker 2: least in a very very good position to win the 382 00:20:02,813 --> 00:20:05,693 Speaker 2: Test match. So there's a little bit of frustration that 383 00:20:05,733 --> 00:20:09,253 Speaker 2: they those opportunities aren't being converted. I think the reality 384 00:20:09,293 --> 00:20:12,173 Speaker 2: of Tests rugby is certainly there now for Scott Robinson 385 00:20:12,213 --> 00:20:15,133 Speaker 2: is that these are the fine margins that Test rugby 386 00:20:15,413 --> 00:20:18,693 Speaker 2: is decided upon, and you have to back up week 387 00:20:18,773 --> 00:20:21,373 Speaker 2: after week. You have to wipe the slate clean. You're 388 00:20:21,413 --> 00:20:26,413 Speaker 2: not about accumulating competition points. You're not, you know, playing 389 00:20:27,453 --> 00:20:29,893 Speaker 2: the Blues one week and the Rebels the next. You're 390 00:20:29,933 --> 00:20:32,653 Speaker 2: playing you know, the Suffragans twice in a row, and 391 00:20:32,653 --> 00:20:34,293 Speaker 2: they're going to come at you and come at you 392 00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:37,973 Speaker 2: for the full eighty minutes. So I mean, I think 393 00:20:37,973 --> 00:20:40,693 Speaker 2: there's definitely a sense of belief from Scott Robinson, but 394 00:20:40,733 --> 00:20:42,773 Speaker 2: also a sense of frustration as well that it's not 395 00:20:42,813 --> 00:20:45,933 Speaker 2: coming together, maybe as quickly as he would have liked. 396 00:20:45,973 --> 00:20:48,333 Speaker 2: I interviewed in the Sky yesterday and he pointed out 397 00:20:48,333 --> 00:20:51,773 Speaker 2: that the South Africans were seven years into their journey 398 00:20:51,813 --> 00:20:55,093 Speaker 2: and the All Blacks are, you know, seven matches, so 399 00:20:55,253 --> 00:20:58,253 Speaker 2: there is a disparity there. But as an All Blacks 400 00:20:58,253 --> 00:21:01,493 Speaker 2: coach and as an All Blacks team, Unfortunately, you don't 401 00:21:01,493 --> 00:21:04,853 Speaker 2: get time to rebuild necessarily. There's an expectation that you 402 00:21:04,973 --> 00:21:08,293 Speaker 2: win and win every Test match, and at the moment 403 00:21:08,533 --> 00:21:10,853 Speaker 2: you pointed out the record four and three, with some 404 00:21:10,893 --> 00:21:13,893 Speaker 2: big Test matches to come later on in this season, 405 00:21:14,893 --> 00:21:17,373 Speaker 2: we've got to learn quickly about what test rugby is 406 00:21:17,893 --> 00:21:20,533 Speaker 2: about and for learn to execute those key moments. 407 00:21:21,933 --> 00:21:25,453 Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it's been underwhelming to date because I 408 00:21:25,493 --> 00:21:28,573 Speaker 3: expected more. I expected him to come in with a 409 00:21:28,573 --> 00:21:32,973 Speaker 3: bit of a blank page and usher and not necessarily 410 00:21:33,453 --> 00:21:38,613 Speaker 3: an overnight revolution that's unrealistic. But I expected him to 411 00:21:38,653 --> 00:21:41,213 Speaker 3: put his stamp on this team and we're only rarely 412 00:21:41,253 --> 00:21:45,093 Speaker 3: seeing that. In terms of the selections now, you know 413 00:21:45,213 --> 00:21:47,813 Speaker 3: in this Test and a couple of those were injury enforced. 414 00:21:48,493 --> 00:21:51,293 Speaker 3: For me, it's been very much a continuity from last 415 00:21:51,373 --> 00:21:54,853 Speaker 3: year's World Cup team, almost picking the same team that 416 00:21:54,893 --> 00:21:58,533 Speaker 3: am Foster did to a degree. So for me, in 417 00:21:58,573 --> 00:22:01,213 Speaker 3: the face of adversity and the face of back to 418 00:22:01,293 --> 00:22:04,573 Speaker 3: back defeats to the world champion, in the face of 419 00:22:04,693 --> 00:22:07,733 Speaker 3: mounting pressure and scrutiny, now he needs to be brave 420 00:22:07,773 --> 00:22:11,333 Speaker 3: and bold and promote that youth around some experience, but 421 00:22:11,413 --> 00:22:13,573 Speaker 3: really put a stamp on this team because I think 422 00:22:13,613 --> 00:22:15,933 Speaker 3: that's what we've we've been waiting to see. 423 00:22:16,733 --> 00:22:18,733 Speaker 2: Indeed, yes, it's got to be interesting to see how 424 00:22:18,733 --> 00:22:21,133 Speaker 2: they look for Australia get coming up in a couple 425 00:22:21,173 --> 00:22:25,093 Speaker 2: of weeks time in both Sydney and in Wellington the 426 00:22:25,173 --> 00:22:27,173 Speaker 2: sact click break here and Rugby Direct come back with 427 00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:28,653 Speaker 2: more after this. 428 00:22:28,653 --> 00:22:36,013 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 429 00:22:36,293 --> 00:22:39,973 Speaker 2: Every try do try a sixty sec every tackle to tackle, tackle, 430 00:22:40,053 --> 00:22:42,333 Speaker 2: get up again till. 431 00:22:43,973 --> 00:22:47,053 Speaker 5: You before After it's Rugby Direct, Bladies Talk. 432 00:22:47,813 --> 00:22:53,133 Speaker 2: We're back with Rugby Directs powered by Access Solutions and 433 00:22:53,213 --> 00:22:56,093 Speaker 2: Liam let's get into the final four and let's just start. 434 00:22:56,173 --> 00:22:57,933 Speaker 2: We got away from your Blacks from a moment or two, 435 00:22:57,973 --> 00:23:01,493 Speaker 2: but what on earth happened? And then Australia Argentina gain 436 00:23:02,373 --> 00:23:04,973 Speaker 2: looking at it a halftime, Australia leaving twenty points to 437 00:23:05,013 --> 00:23:08,573 Speaker 2: seventeen and then just blowing off the park in the 438 00:23:08,613 --> 00:23:11,093 Speaker 2: second spell conceiving fifty points to seven. 439 00:23:11,973 --> 00:23:14,093 Speaker 5: This is a big win for Argentina. 440 00:23:14,133 --> 00:23:16,853 Speaker 2: And know the conditions were hot, but Australia having led 441 00:23:16,853 --> 00:23:19,093 Speaker 2: twenty to three after half an hour shouldn't be losing 442 00:23:19,093 --> 00:23:21,373 Speaker 2: a match in the manner that they. 443 00:23:21,213 --> 00:23:25,013 Speaker 4: Did, then, no they shouldn't. It was very much. 444 00:23:26,333 --> 00:23:27,813 Speaker 3: You know, you think it's tough being an All Blacks 445 00:23:27,853 --> 00:23:32,333 Speaker 3: fan drumbing a Wallabies fan. It's I have to ask 446 00:23:32,613 --> 00:23:36,933 Speaker 3: Morton how he's getting on. Look very much a foal storm, 447 00:23:37,013 --> 00:23:41,173 Speaker 3: wasn't it? The last gasp win in Laplace last week 448 00:23:41,253 --> 00:23:44,653 Speaker 3: for the Wallabies. I think they yet conceded something like 449 00:23:44,813 --> 00:23:49,413 Speaker 3: forty seven points. I think they let at one stage 450 00:23:49,453 --> 00:23:54,293 Speaker 3: twenty points to three. So a massive meltdown in Argentina 451 00:23:54,493 --> 00:23:58,293 Speaker 3: and very much shredding you know, all the confidence that 452 00:23:58,333 --> 00:24:01,013 Speaker 3: they built the week before. So I guess it just 453 00:24:01,133 --> 00:24:05,693 Speaker 3: underlines the task in front of Joe Schmidt and expectations, 454 00:24:05,893 --> 00:24:09,773 Speaker 3: reinforces expectations for the All Blacks to retain the bleederslow, 455 00:24:09,813 --> 00:24:10,773 Speaker 3: doesn't it. 456 00:24:10,773 --> 00:24:13,093 Speaker 2: It does, and it's going to be a tricky task 457 00:24:13,173 --> 00:24:15,413 Speaker 2: for them to come back home and figured that out 458 00:24:15,853 --> 00:24:19,773 Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks time in Sydney and in Wellington. 459 00:24:19,813 --> 00:24:22,053 Speaker 5: It's yeah, there's a lot. 460 00:24:22,213 --> 00:24:24,613 Speaker 2: There's a lot to work on for the Wallabies, that 461 00:24:24,733 --> 00:24:27,653 Speaker 2: is for certain at this point, and doesn't appear like 462 00:24:27,773 --> 00:24:30,093 Speaker 2: there's too much light at the end of the tunnel 463 00:24:31,253 --> 00:24:33,653 Speaker 2: you have to say. And I've seen people saying it's 464 00:24:33,693 --> 00:24:38,053 Speaker 2: just time to open the borders and select players from 465 00:24:38,053 --> 00:24:40,413 Speaker 2: a board, which probably leads us into a pretty good 466 00:24:40,773 --> 00:24:42,613 Speaker 2: second topic, Limb that are going to throw out you. 467 00:24:42,973 --> 00:24:45,053 Speaker 2: Given the All Black performances in the last couple of weeks, 468 00:24:45,133 --> 00:24:48,853 Speaker 2: is the time to change New Zealand rightbe's eligibility laws? 469 00:24:51,253 --> 00:24:53,693 Speaker 3: No, No, I don't think it is. I think for 470 00:24:53,773 --> 00:24:55,733 Speaker 3: me there's a bit of context to be ahead here. 471 00:24:55,933 --> 00:24:59,733 Speaker 3: And I would put this question to you, Elliott, how 472 00:24:59,733 --> 00:25:04,413 Speaker 3: many overseas players would you actually select for the All 473 00:25:04,413 --> 00:25:05,173 Speaker 3: Blacks right now? 474 00:25:07,813 --> 00:25:11,893 Speaker 2: Well, richi In will be one, Yeah, Shannon Brazzel would 475 00:25:11,893 --> 00:25:16,413 Speaker 2: be another, leicestifying and Nukhu would be three. And then 476 00:25:16,653 --> 00:25:20,293 Speaker 2: I think you look at you know, whether they retire 477 00:25:20,333 --> 00:25:24,093 Speaker 2: internationally or not. You know, Brady Retallic if he's still 478 00:25:24,213 --> 00:25:27,853 Speaker 2: charging around in Japan and wanted to play test Rake, 479 00:25:27,933 --> 00:25:31,693 Speaker 2: but I think he'd be a prospect that you could 480 00:25:31,693 --> 00:25:33,493 Speaker 2: look at as well. 481 00:25:34,853 --> 00:25:37,493 Speaker 5: I mean, Aaron Smith, you could look at him. 482 00:25:37,613 --> 00:25:41,173 Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways, those players going abroad is 483 00:25:41,333 --> 00:25:44,613 Speaker 2: essentially a retirement for them, not so much Monger in 484 00:25:44,693 --> 00:25:47,733 Speaker 2: fighting a Nuku necessarily in Frazell but some of those 485 00:25:47,773 --> 00:25:51,013 Speaker 2: players they're basically retiring by going abroad and probably wouldn't 486 00:25:51,013 --> 00:25:53,093 Speaker 2: be eligible for the All Blacks. Again, I think there's 487 00:25:53,133 --> 00:25:55,333 Speaker 2: five or six that you can potentially put into twenty three. 488 00:25:55,693 --> 00:25:57,373 Speaker 2: You know, if you're able to bring say a Retallic 489 00:25:57,413 --> 00:26:00,133 Speaker 2: off the bench and Aaron Smith off the bench, will 490 00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:03,733 Speaker 2: make things like that possible, lestifying and Nookie maybe off 491 00:26:03,733 --> 00:26:06,693 Speaker 2: the bench, you know, it enhances the twenty three. I 492 00:26:06,853 --> 00:26:08,853 Speaker 2: would be in favor of a hard cap, whether it's 493 00:26:09,053 --> 00:26:12,493 Speaker 2: seventy tests or something like that. And I don't know 494 00:26:12,493 --> 00:26:14,533 Speaker 2: that it would actually make Richie Monger eligible, but I 495 00:26:14,573 --> 00:26:17,373 Speaker 2: think that's something that they do need to look at. 496 00:26:17,413 --> 00:26:19,733 Speaker 5: And I think that day is approaching pretty quickly. 497 00:26:19,773 --> 00:26:23,213 Speaker 2: I think for the spring Boxley it's actually been the 498 00:26:23,253 --> 00:26:26,093 Speaker 2: reason why they are as good as they are. It 499 00:26:26,173 --> 00:26:29,293 Speaker 2: was long seen as a detriment bringing players in from 500 00:26:29,333 --> 00:26:32,013 Speaker 2: right around the globe, but such as their team culture 501 00:26:32,173 --> 00:26:36,093 Speaker 2: that Russia Rasmus is built, that it doesn't seem to matter. 502 00:26:36,213 --> 00:26:38,013 Speaker 2: Have come again from all points of the globe, playing 503 00:26:38,053 --> 00:26:43,733 Speaker 2: all sorts of different competitions Japan, France, England, et cetera, 504 00:26:43,853 --> 00:26:44,173 Speaker 2: that they. 505 00:26:44,173 --> 00:26:44,893 Speaker 5: All come together. 506 00:26:45,013 --> 00:26:47,693 Speaker 2: So I think the day is coming faster than perhaps 507 00:26:47,733 --> 00:26:48,773 Speaker 2: has been anticipated. 508 00:26:50,173 --> 00:26:50,373 Speaker 5: Yeah. 509 00:26:50,413 --> 00:26:53,653 Speaker 3: Look, I think there's always a discussion to be had 510 00:26:53,733 --> 00:26:57,973 Speaker 3: around flexibility and caps, but there's counterpoints for everything, is it? 511 00:26:58,013 --> 00:27:01,213 Speaker 3: So you bring a Brodie Retallic back and that potentially 512 00:27:01,213 --> 00:27:05,013 Speaker 3: compromises to proudvised development and game time. So at what 513 00:27:05,093 --> 00:27:09,413 Speaker 3: point are we looking ahead, are for the future, and 514 00:27:09,453 --> 00:27:11,613 Speaker 3: what point are we living in the now? I think 515 00:27:11,853 --> 00:27:14,173 Speaker 3: the owners has to be on Scott Robertson to develop 516 00:27:14,213 --> 00:27:16,853 Speaker 3: the next generation of players and bring them through, and 517 00:27:16,893 --> 00:27:19,253 Speaker 3: maybe some of them aren't ready yet, but they will 518 00:27:19,293 --> 00:27:22,613 Speaker 3: benefit from these experiences. So I think I'd give you 519 00:27:22,773 --> 00:27:26,373 Speaker 3: Rich and Wonger, Shannon Frazelle at a pinch, Lester Fine, 520 00:27:26,413 --> 00:27:29,733 Speaker 3: and Nuku. Yes, it would be nice to have Aaron Smith, 521 00:27:29,853 --> 00:27:33,453 Speaker 3: but then Cortiers Latimer is not developing, he's not getting 522 00:27:33,453 --> 00:27:36,293 Speaker 3: the game time and then that experience. So I'm in 523 00:27:36,333 --> 00:27:38,813 Speaker 3: favor of keeping things how they are for now. But 524 00:27:39,293 --> 00:27:42,333 Speaker 3: I agree it should be an open debate. But it's 525 00:27:42,373 --> 00:27:45,253 Speaker 3: not the quick, fixed solution that some people painted out 526 00:27:45,253 --> 00:27:45,733 Speaker 3: to be either. 527 00:27:46,653 --> 00:27:50,213 Speaker 5: I mean number three in the final four more confirmation. 528 00:27:50,253 --> 00:27:51,973 Speaker 2: I don't know if you can have more confirmation, but 529 00:27:52,013 --> 00:27:55,293 Speaker 2: it's continuing to build. Put it that way around. These 530 00:27:55,533 --> 00:27:59,693 Speaker 2: tours from twenty twenty six look a great idea. It's 531 00:27:59,733 --> 00:28:02,333 Speaker 2: going to be great for rugby. Just being here the 532 00:28:02,373 --> 00:28:04,453 Speaker 2: last couple of weeks and getting a sense of it. 533 00:28:04,533 --> 00:28:07,533 Speaker 2: If come back in a couple of years time for 534 00:28:07,613 --> 00:28:11,573 Speaker 2: a full with tour matches is going to be pretty 535 00:28:11,573 --> 00:28:14,773 Speaker 2: pretty special. So we knew this was happening. It's not 536 00:28:14,853 --> 00:28:18,773 Speaker 2: been officially confirmed yet, but all signs points it to yes, 537 00:28:18,853 --> 00:28:20,893 Speaker 2: and my understanding is that we could even have an 538 00:28:20,893 --> 00:28:23,533 Speaker 2: announcement perhaps by the time the all Black sleeve this 539 00:28:23,613 --> 00:28:24,533 Speaker 2: year's end of year tour. 540 00:28:26,133 --> 00:28:28,853 Speaker 3: Yeah, a very real bucket list item. I think it's 541 00:28:29,573 --> 00:28:34,613 Speaker 3: two months, eight weeks. What a tour to be a 542 00:28:34,653 --> 00:28:36,893 Speaker 3: part of. If you've never been to South Africa before. 543 00:28:36,933 --> 00:28:42,893 Speaker 3: It's an amazing country, beautiful landscapes, great people, food, wine, 544 00:28:43,573 --> 00:28:46,613 Speaker 3: the works, and then the rugby is the absolute cherry. 545 00:28:46,653 --> 00:28:53,013 Speaker 3: On top three tests, multiple games against provincial teams, it 546 00:28:53,093 --> 00:28:56,773 Speaker 3: will just be an amazing occasion. So the trade off, 547 00:28:56,813 --> 00:29:00,653 Speaker 3: of course is what's going to happen around the Rugby Championship, 548 00:29:00,653 --> 00:29:02,933 Speaker 3: which I think is still a bit of a discussion about, 549 00:29:03,293 --> 00:29:05,813 Speaker 3: and it does seem like all signs point to a 550 00:29:05,853 --> 00:29:10,213 Speaker 3: bit of a compromise with Australia around the ANZACT Test, which. 551 00:29:11,293 --> 00:29:13,973 Speaker 4: Clearly Australia value the All Blacks. 552 00:29:14,013 --> 00:29:18,493 Speaker 3: That's their biggest commodity in terms of revenue, in terms 553 00:29:18,533 --> 00:29:21,493 Speaker 3: of their their home tests. So uzel and Rugby is 554 00:29:21,533 --> 00:29:22,893 Speaker 3: going to have to throw them a bone and it 555 00:29:22,933 --> 00:29:26,173 Speaker 3: looks like it will be that probably for twenty twenty six. 556 00:29:27,253 --> 00:29:30,333 Speaker 2: Yes indeed, although yeah, I'm not entirely convinced it's going 557 00:29:30,373 --> 00:29:32,453 Speaker 2: to happen. I kind of felt to me seeing that 558 00:29:32,493 --> 00:29:35,293 Speaker 2: story in the press, it felt like Australia Rugby, Australia 559 00:29:35,333 --> 00:29:38,013 Speaker 2: is trying to get some headlines and not wanting to 560 00:29:38,013 --> 00:29:40,293 Speaker 2: be left behind. I think that's a little bit of 561 00:29:40,333 --> 00:29:43,693 Speaker 2: water to go on the bridge is yet till that 562 00:29:43,773 --> 00:29:44,373 Speaker 2: gets signed off. 563 00:29:44,373 --> 00:29:45,933 Speaker 5: I mean it would disrupt Super Rugby. 564 00:29:46,053 --> 00:29:50,853 Speaker 2: They've been told on this podcast around various things around 565 00:29:50,893 --> 00:29:53,173 Speaker 2: Super Rugby and disrupting that and taking the best players 566 00:29:53,173 --> 00:29:55,333 Speaker 2: out and ANZAC test would do that. So I think 567 00:29:55,373 --> 00:29:59,973 Speaker 2: tread pretty carefully would be my message around that and 568 00:30:00,013 --> 00:30:03,213 Speaker 2: whether it's actually the right thing for both the Bleedersloe Carpitals, 569 00:30:03,733 --> 00:30:06,013 Speaker 2: Super Rugby taking those players out of Super Rugby for 570 00:30:06,013 --> 00:30:08,853 Speaker 2: a week or two and playing that Anzact Test and 571 00:30:08,893 --> 00:30:11,933 Speaker 2: Perth surrounding it obviously with the super rounders as part 572 00:30:11,973 --> 00:30:15,133 Speaker 2: of the reporting as well, So I'm not sold on 573 00:30:15,173 --> 00:30:18,093 Speaker 2: the idea necessarily. I can see why Stratie wants to 574 00:30:18,093 --> 00:30:22,093 Speaker 2: do it, and it day's pretty crowded over there, as 575 00:30:22,093 --> 00:30:24,693 Speaker 2: it is in certain markets around the NRAL and AFL. 576 00:30:24,813 --> 00:30:29,453 Speaker 2: So mark me down as unconvinced on that ANZAC Day 577 00:30:29,613 --> 00:30:30,813 Speaker 2: Test match possibility. 578 00:30:31,733 --> 00:30:32,893 Speaker 5: And topic number four Lamb. 579 00:30:34,013 --> 00:30:36,213 Speaker 2: The Shield era ends for Hawks Bay and a new 580 00:30:36,213 --> 00:30:39,453 Speaker 2: one begins for Tasmin Muckel for the first time. That 581 00:30:39,533 --> 00:30:42,653 Speaker 2: was a cracking match. It was listening to it on 582 00:30:42,693 --> 00:30:44,973 Speaker 2: the radio commentary on gold Sport. It was a game 583 00:30:45,013 --> 00:30:47,853 Speaker 2: of twists and turns a Tasman League comfortably at halftime 584 00:30:47,933 --> 00:30:51,053 Speaker 2: Hawks back flod their way back in and got their 585 00:30:51,053 --> 00:30:52,773 Speaker 2: noses back in front to look like that hold the 586 00:30:52,773 --> 00:30:54,493 Speaker 2: shield and then a fifty minute of penalty to win it. 587 00:30:54,533 --> 00:30:57,493 Speaker 2: And they couldn't do it in party time in Nelson 588 00:30:57,493 --> 00:30:58,093 Speaker 2: and Marlborough. 589 00:30:59,253 --> 00:31:05,173 Speaker 3: Indeed, our colleague Clay Wilson has been partying for days. 590 00:31:05,253 --> 00:31:08,333 Speaker 3: I don't think he actually has, but he's a proud 591 00:31:08,373 --> 00:31:11,773 Speaker 3: Marble boy. And they won the Shield many moons ago 592 00:31:11,893 --> 00:31:13,853 Speaker 3: and he's actually from Blenham. I should get that right. 593 00:31:14,653 --> 00:31:17,693 Speaker 3: But yeah, like a massive occasion for Tasman. They had 594 00:31:17,693 --> 00:31:21,373 Speaker 3: it at Trafelga Park today and the Magpies have had 595 00:31:21,533 --> 00:31:24,733 Speaker 3: a great shield run. Just a word on the match itself. 596 00:31:24,773 --> 00:31:27,173 Speaker 3: A bit of a bizarre atmosphere. The DJ was playing 597 00:31:27,933 --> 00:31:32,053 Speaker 3: music throughout the game. It looked like a real party 598 00:31:32,053 --> 00:31:34,453 Speaker 3: atmosphere in the stands, so that was a bit bizarre. 599 00:31:34,493 --> 00:31:39,333 Speaker 3: But yeah, crazy crazy match. Ebbs and Flows. Campbell Potterpa 600 00:31:39,573 --> 00:31:43,693 Speaker 3: comes off the bench to kick a fifty odd meter 601 00:31:44,133 --> 00:31:47,533 Speaker 3: on full time to spark the celebrations for the Marco 602 00:31:47,813 --> 00:31:49,413 Speaker 3: and it was a bit of a weekend like that 603 00:31:49,453 --> 00:31:53,013 Speaker 3: for the NPC. Elliott Auckland got their first one and 604 00:31:53,053 --> 00:31:55,693 Speaker 3: there was some classic ship house sorry at the end 605 00:31:55,733 --> 00:31:58,613 Speaker 3: with one of the Auckland players wetting the ball. Bryn 606 00:31:58,733 --> 00:32:01,173 Speaker 3: Hall is a North Harbor scrum wet the ball with 607 00:32:01,493 --> 00:32:04,733 Speaker 3: a drink bottle. Bryn Hall's unhappy, he goes off to 608 00:32:04,813 --> 00:32:08,133 Speaker 3: change the ball, gets penalized for time wasting free kick 609 00:32:08,173 --> 00:32:11,053 Speaker 3: and Aukland from the free kick score the match winning try. 610 00:32:11,133 --> 00:32:15,733 Speaker 3: So don't let anyone tell you that being Neglie doesn't 611 00:32:15,733 --> 00:32:16,213 Speaker 3: pay off. 612 00:32:17,053 --> 00:32:19,013 Speaker 5: The Battle of the bridge always delivers. 613 00:32:19,013 --> 00:32:20,853 Speaker 2: Great to say that the word for Canterbury as well, 614 00:32:21,533 --> 00:32:24,013 Speaker 2: bouncing back from the horror defeat to Wellington. 615 00:32:24,093 --> 00:32:26,813 Speaker 5: So the Red and Blacks come back again, don't you 616 00:32:26,813 --> 00:32:27,333 Speaker 5: worry about that? 617 00:32:28,453 --> 00:32:31,293 Speaker 3: Well, let's just say I know you've had a great 618 00:32:31,333 --> 00:32:34,493 Speaker 3: tool bit of tough tour results wise, and we'll really 619 00:32:34,533 --> 00:32:37,733 Speaker 3: lift the spirits with that Wellington jersey presentation that's waiting 620 00:32:37,773 --> 00:32:39,253 Speaker 3: for you when you come home. 621 00:32:39,413 --> 00:32:41,573 Speaker 2: Yeah, I might have to avoid coming into the office, 622 00:32:41,573 --> 00:32:46,373 Speaker 2: that might be wise, I think, Liam, Thank you as always. 623 00:32:46,853 --> 00:32:48,613 Speaker 2: Next how we record is going to be in Sydney 624 00:32:49,533 --> 00:32:52,293 Speaker 2: for the build up to the Bladerslope very much looking forward. 625 00:32:52,093 --> 00:32:55,373 Speaker 3: To that well, great trip, good to get over to 626 00:32:56,013 --> 00:32:59,293 Speaker 3: their mates across the ditch and hopefully from an all 627 00:32:59,333 --> 00:33:01,213 Speaker 3: back to perspective, a better result over there. 628 00:33:01,533 --> 00:33:05,613 Speaker 2: Indeed, thanks to access solutions elevating you and your business 629 00:33:05,613 --> 00:33:08,053 Speaker 2: to a higher level, I think to Lace and Bars English, 630 00:33:08,053 --> 00:33:10,813 Speaker 2: we will at you next week from Sudnay on right be. 631 00:33:10,893 --> 00:33:17,013 Speaker 5: Direct for more from News Talk st B. 632 00:33:17,293 --> 00:33:20,533 Speaker 1: Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows 633 00:33:20,573 --> 00:33:23,893 Speaker 1: with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.