WEBVTT - Early Childhood Education: Are calls to cut regulations really what the sector needs? 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:05.680 Kyoda. 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.920 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:12.320 daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.560 We're halfway through the year. 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.759 But there have already been a number of confronting headlines 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:25.160 about early childhood education providers in twenty twenty five. Earlier 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.760 this year, the Herald ran a number of stories around 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.040 children escaping from centers around the country, and in the 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.159 last week, two coroners' reports have come out highlighting tragic 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.640 deaths that befell two young children. The news comes after 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.720 a review by the Ministry of Regulation into ecees and 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.839 how they operate, with another review just announced by the 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.640 Education Ministry into funding coming next Today on the Front Page, 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:56.080 we're discussing what's happening with the rules, regulations and funding 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.680 with doctor Sarah Alexander, Chief Advisor to the Office of 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:07.679 Early Childhood Education. Sarah, I want to start with some 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.160 high profile stories that The Herald has covered this year 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.679 around early childhood education centers. Notably, in the last week, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:20.120 we've reported on two coroners' findings around death related to ecees. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.840 The first was about Lorenzo Miranda, who was twenty months 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.800 when he suffered a fatal but invisible head injury after 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.800 a fallback in twenty seventeen. He later died in hospital, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:34.000 and findings found that ECE workers could not have expected 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.000 to have identified something was wrong with Lorenzo, but it 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.360 was noted they should have informed the parents about what happened. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:41.800 What do you make of this case? 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.160 In my opinion, to me, it's pretty much of a 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.960 cover up. I believe that the workers, that the teachers 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.640 should have known what had happened, that it was possible 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.760 to recognize some of the signs of a serious hit injury, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.520 and that there were a number of failings in the 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.440 case of of this early childhood service that he attended. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.360 Is there anything to learn from this event? 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.120 Reading the reports from the Ministry of Education, from Work 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.000 Safe and from the coroner, what we can gather from 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:17.600 those reports is that little Lorenzo potentially probably fell from 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.800 an adult sized chair. There was an adult sized table 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.440 and cheers in the center. That should not be the case. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.920 You know, I'm of the belief that if a child's 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.120 feet can't touch the floor when they're seated, then that 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.480 seat is too big for them. So you know, firstly, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.600 there was inappropriate furniture there, and I think that's a 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.560 lesson for all of their child's services and for parents 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.280 when they're you know, going down to look for an 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.640 early child's service for their child. You know, what is 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.800 the size of the furniture? Is the furniture that my 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.280 child is going to be using safe? Another thing was 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.720 that there was on that particular day that Lorenzo had 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.280 his fall, there was staff coming and going, there was 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.239 a birthday party happening in the room. There was really 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.280 no one person looking after him that day. Know, he 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.480 was cared for by multiple staff, so there wasn't a 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.600 primary you know what we call a primary caregiver, And 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.480 that's just something else that we would like to see 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.960 in the office of ec Change, you know, a requirement 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.679 that for under two year olds in particular, because they're 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.200 so vulnerable, that under two year olds to have someone 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.960 who is responsible for them and who will look out 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.959 for them at all times, someone who's keeping an eye 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.480 on them. Then there was also the issue that the 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.639 fall was not recorded, so there was no information passed 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.639 on to the family that Lorenzo had fallen, probably from 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.000 the cheer because he was seen lying at the bottom 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.400 of the adult side's cheer and also possible signs of 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.480 head injury were missed. And you know, the main one 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.240 there is drowsiness because when the parents came to pick 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:43.960 him up, you know, he was lying in the lap 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.080 of a teacher and extremely drowsy, and you know that 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:49.960 was not like him. And you know, not at that 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:51.320 time of day either. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.440 Domestic ending, nobody told me anything I went to pick 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.520 him up, so we had no clue. We were just 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.280 handed over a baby that was had a brain bleed 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.720 and we didn't know. Cause that's one of the hardest 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.720 things as well, was you know, I held him when 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.040 he came into the world, and I also that we 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.040 also held him when he left the world. 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:20.040 It's just. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.839 It's not something that you want to do as a 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:25.479 parent ever ever. 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.520 And the other case was one that your organization actually 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.240 spotted around the death of a five month old back 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:37.640 in twenty twenty three. 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.440 Why did this one catch your attention? 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:40.480 It caught our. 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.560 Attention because it's one of probably many cases in early childhood. 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.280 But it caught our attention because it was an unexplained deaths. 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.880 But there were a number of features, a number of 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.920 things seemed to add up to this unexplained death. That 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.000 possibly if these things weren't happening at the time, that 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:00.839 baby might still be alive. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.520 Now and can you tell me what happened. 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.280 So it started off with, you know, five months old baby, 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.440 you know, seemingly healthy, you know, apart from what infants 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.279 often get is you know, colds and running you know, 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.200 running noses, and he had had a bit of a 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.760 cough at the time. He was fed for lunch a 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.000 pouch of baby food. But the teacher said at the 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.400 time that he had his food, that he didn't take 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.920 to eating the food very well, and that that was 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.760 unusual for him. He was put to bed with a 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:33.680 loose blanket, which is not following guidance for the protection 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.919 you know, to mitigate the risks of sud I in 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:39.080 terms of sudden death. So you know, that's not a 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.440 best practice thing, you know, to put a baby to 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.200 bed with loose bedding, with a loose blanket. He was 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.479 also put into a room with up to eight other 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:52.240 infants and left to sleep, only being checked every ten 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.919 minutes or so. Now, an early child is centers, you 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.560 know that can be busy places, noisy places. So a 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.520 lot of centers had doors on the sleep rooms. Doors 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.840 the sleep from door may or may not have been closed. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.440 It's not mentioned in the reports. There might not have 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:10.080 been a baby monitor. So really that those nine babies 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.520 who were sleeping in the room at the time we're 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.000 lived without an adult watching over them, and yet the 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.520 Ministry of Education says that that's perfectly fine because that 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:26.159 meets current regulation standards. We believe that infants, particularly should 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.640 have someone watching over them, someone who can see them 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:30.520 when you're sleeping. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.200 Yeah, in both of those cases, do you think the 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.960 regulations in place at the moment go far enough to 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.240 protect children? Because in both situations it seems that there's 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.240 been changes made as a result of these deaths. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.760 Not really, believe it or not, there seems to have 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.400 been quite a cover up because you know, we're just 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.880 reporting the stories now. These deaths happened some time ago. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.479 You know, the five month old baby die back in 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.919 twenty twenty three, and the child who dived from a 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.280 fatal fall that was back in twenty seventeen, so you know, 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.520 their information's not out there that What the Ministry of 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.120 Education has done has just basically been to maybe put 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.000 some more advice on their website or to provide links 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:21.280 through to other agencies to health agencies on recommended best practices. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.480 But regulations have a changed, requirements haven't changed. Babies can 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.040 still be put down to sleep in a sleep rome 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.480 and left unchecked for ten minutes at a time at 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.960 adult sized furniture can still be in playrooms for children 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.360 who were too young to use that size of furniture 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.640 and not given good supervision around that furniture. And you know, 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:47.080 there is no requirement for a primary caregiver for infants 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.000 in early childhood services. So there haven't been any regulation improvements. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.960 In fact, regulations were better some years ago. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.320 Back in two thousand, before two thousand and eight, I 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.920 think it was regulations before two thousand and eight require 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.320 that there'd be an adult in the room when children 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:06.600 were resting or sleeping. 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.320 Well, that just seems like common sense. Why isn't that happening? 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.960 It does seem like common sense, and you'd expect all 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.840 early chittered services to be following common sense, but it seems, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.520 you know from our investigations that actually it doesn't. Common 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.360 sense isn't always followed. You know, early chided services are 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.160 busy places. They can have high staff. High staff turn either. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.520 They can be run by operators who don't know what 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.160 best practices are and aren't aware of research, and so 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.200 you know they'll follow the regulations perhaps, but those regulations 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.640 in themselves aren't adequate enough when there is a lack 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.719 of knowledge about best practices and when there are other 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.440 streetses and strains on the services, meaning that you know 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.320 they won't go that extra mile. And we'd like to 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:52.920 see services go that extra mile and do the best 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.040 practices and provide the high quality and be aware of 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.880 what can lead to injuries into deaths, because you know 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.240 one andrey one dar is just one two innings. 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.439 The other situation the Herald has covered a lot earlier 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.079 this year was around children managing to escape for lack 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.880 of a better term, from their ec centers. Now. Information 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.079 obtained by the Rotarua Daily Post under the Official Information 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.720 Act found that between twenty twenty and twenty twenty four, 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.079 three hundred and twenty one children managed to abscond. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.280 Are you surprised by those figures? 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.719 No, And those figures probably represent just kind of like 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.360 the tip of the iceberg because it's not a requirement 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.719 for services to report to the Ministry of Education of 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.640 the child escapes, so it could be a lot more. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.400 The figure could be much much higher than there, and 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.760 we don't know because it's not a requirement to report 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.360 child escapes. And the word child escape in itself is 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.120 language that perhaps we shouldn't be using, but as indicative 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.760 of the state of the early childhood sector in terms 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.640 of the laxness of regulations and the fact that we 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.440 see children escaping rather than children wanting to be in 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:15.160 their early childhood service and loving being there, you know. 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.400 And what we want is, you know, for every child 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.679 to be leager in the morning and want to dash 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.880 out the door and go to the early childhood service 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.800 because it's a great place to be rather than a 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.000 place to escape from. 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.880 Should there be penalties or something in place for ecs 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:35.079 that I suppose have in an abscondee. 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.000 In some cases it's because of the child has high 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:43.199 needs in terms of behavior and they might just climb 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.720 the fence because you know, the climbers. Yeah. In terms 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.520 of whether or not there should be penalties, it should. 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.440 What we are advocating in the Office of Early Childhood 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:56.520 Education is for information for parents to be made available 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.800 on when there have been escapes, when there have been 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.959 there is incidents when there have been deaths, so there 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.439 is transparency because then parents or teachers that are going 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.080 to work at a service and other services can know, hey, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.319 these are the things that we need to change in 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.160 our service, so you know, this sort of thing won't 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.840 happen again, or it won't happen at our service. And 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.240 I think that's a real issue, is the lack of transparency. 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.640 The fact that you know, these two cases of child death, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.200 there have been you know, multiple serious other cases of 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.599 serious injuries that over time will be uncovered and that 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.640 we'll be discussing, you know, more about because you know, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.800 we've got a commitment in the Office of ECE to 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.600 start the ball rolling to get some transparency going because 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.160 the Ministry of Education at the moment does not want 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.400 these cases to be known. And you know, even the 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:48.160 Ministry for Regulation, David Seymour has recently required that that 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:52.280 ECE be his first target for the Ministry for Regulation 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.720 to do a review of regulations. Now the Ministry for 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:00.600 Regulation has completed its report, changes to base, it cut 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.160 out a lot of regulations and requirements have been approved 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.880 by Cabinet. This is serious because you know, as these 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.160 cases that you know we are talking about show regulations 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.520 not strong enough as it is, and we need tighter 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:18.400 regulations rather than fewer regulations. And we also need regulations 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.160 to be in areas where we know there are needs 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:28.000 for requirements to be set, because otherwise the requirements may 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.920 not be followed within an early childhood service. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.520 The report makes fifteen recommendations to modernize and simplify regulations 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.960 across ECE so that service providers can get on with 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.520 what they do best, providing safe, high quality spaces. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.439 For children to reach their potential. 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.280 The Ministry is recommended removing, changing, or merging approximately three 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.079 quarters of the ninety eight licensing criteria for center based services, 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:01.160 simplifying the system so it focuses on children's and education 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:02.719 instead of paperwork. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.720 Regulations around early childhood education have been in the spotlight 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.000 of course, this year, the Ministry of Regulation shows easy Ease, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.400 like you said, is the first sector a review looking. 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:17.959 At the laws. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.640 Those include more flexible requirements around qualifications for staff and 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:28.280 reducing licensing criteria by about seventy five percent. Firstly, can 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.840 you explain what licensing criteria is? 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.840 Well, when you get a warrant fitness of your car, 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.360 there is like a checklist and the mechanic will go 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.800 through and check you know, breaks, steering and so on, 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.040 seat belts and so forth. The same with an early 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.400 chartered service. When someone wants to open an early charted service, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.559 the Ministry will go into it with its checklist and 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.679 check off that it's doing these things, and then it's 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.520 expected to continue doing these things while it's operating, so 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.480 you know, both before it starts operating and while it's operating. 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.240 And if the service, it's mostly through complaints and through 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.679 serious incidents that the Ministry finds out that a service 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:12.239 may potentially be having problems in complying with the licensing 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.920 requirements and it will then go into a check. In 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.559 New Zealand, we don't have a system of regular checks 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.080 on early childhood services by the Ministry of Education. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.160 I've read some comments from you where it's clear you 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.920 aren't happy about these changes. In one report, you said 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.360 it would weaken the care of our children and that 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.800 it paved the way for baby farming. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:31.960 What do you mean by that? 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.200 Yes, well, we're very concerned and you know, in my opinion, 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.440 the regulatory change as will because the Ministry for Regulation 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.640 didn't take into account and its recommendations. What we can 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.320 learn from serious incidents. It didn't look into complaints that 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.680 have been made about early childhood services to see, well, 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.080 you know, how can regulations be better and provide better 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.040 protection for children and enhance improve the standard of their 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.600 care and education. Instead, you know, it's like a how 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.200 can we slash regulations and requirements? And then we've also 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:09.720 got the added worry about this clause within the Ministry 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:15.720 for Regulations recommendations to allow for a mix of qualifications. Now, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.120 really we should be having teachers who are knowledgeable about 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.320 child development, who have completed a high level of training 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.280 working in early childhood services. You know, where parents leave 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.080 their children, they entrust their child and the care of 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.040 someone and they expect that person to have knowledge about, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.280 you know, what is the best way to care for 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.520 the child, and you know, in terms of being a 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.400 good educator and teacher. And so we're very worried that, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.880 you know, the qualification requirements already are very loose in 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.520 terms of the number of qualified staff required. It's possible 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.760 at times for them to be no early childed education 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.760 qualified teacher working with children. You know, it's allowed for 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.520 someone to be a primary school trained teacher who's trained 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.560 to work with older children, and the rest of the 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.040 staff maybe have had no training at all. They could 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.640 be you know, kids straight out of school seven, you know, 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.720 eighteen year olds for example, so or just you know, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:14.120 just relief teachers who aren't qualified, who haven't been through 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.040 the teaching counsel and got a practicing certificate and been 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.600 verified that they meet the standards of being a teacher. 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.000 Sarah, I don't have children, but I'm still terrified by 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.200 what I'm hearing from you. Is there anything in the 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.480 regulations or anything in the changes that actually can quell fears, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.240 or is the fact of the matter is that the 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:38.000 government needs to tighten, actually tighten regulations around e ces. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.680 There's nothing in the changes that are going to quell 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.080 the fears. You know, we've got a bad situation already 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.640 and it could potentially get worse. And you know that's 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.000 why I say, you know, there's a high risk here 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.160 that we're going to go to the level of child 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.920 farming because you know, we reduce the regulations down and 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.880 and trust service providers. You know, some know, some services 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:05.440 will continue to operate really well and do wonderfully by children. 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.920 Others we are you know, for example, money is a 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.720 motive for operating the service. You know, that is putting 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.159 children at risk, and we shouldn't allow that risk. You know, 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.960 we should have stringent standards and they should be good policing, 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.880 monitoring by the Ministry for Education because you know, that's 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.560 what we parents rely on and that's what we'd love 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.160 to see as a sector where everyone's providing you know, safe, 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.080 high quality care and education for children. 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:32.800 Thanks for joining us, Sarah. 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:33.760 Thank you. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.960 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.800 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.840 at enzadherld dot co dot MZ. The Front Page is 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.639 produced by Ethan Seals and Richard Martin, who is also 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:53.840 our sound engineer. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:55.840 I'm Chelsea Daniels. 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.560 Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.400 get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:04.760 behind the headlines.