1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: The Free Speech Union has urged Tonkin and Taylor not 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: to take any disciplinary action against the Winston Peters heckler. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: This guy was dumb enough to heckle the Deputy Prime 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Minister while wearing his work lanyard, leading to his identification a. 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: Load of pollax, Like well it's gone up in the mirror. 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Such you look like like Pollock's mate. Now Tonkin and 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Taylor has apologized to Winston and is investigating the employee. 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: Nick Hannas from the Free Speech Union and with us, Hey, Nick, Hi, Ever, 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: what's your problem with them saying sorry about it? 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 3: Whether they can say sorry or they like, is it 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 3: really for them to say sorry? Though? 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: We think not. 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 3: I mean, this is an issue that isn't actually directly 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 3: related to the work that their employee does, and of 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 3: course to what they do as a company. 16 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: So it just seems like a complete overreach. 17 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 3: And I think they'll probably trying to get ahead of 18 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: any kind of reputational damage they perceived might be done 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 3: by putting. 20 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: The state's reputational damage isn't there. I mean, if they 21 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: say nothing thing, then there will be a bunch of 22 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: people who will think that they either condone or agree 23 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 1: or don't care. 24 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 3: Well, there can't be reputational damage in some cases, and 25 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 3: of course that's part of the reason codes of conduct 26 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: assigned by employees. But I think the point here is 27 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: that the specific things that were being said in the 28 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 3: context and the fact that it was outside of work 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 3: and it had nothing to do with an engineering firm, 30 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: especially the one he works for that is very pertinent, 31 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: and you know, I really would sort of try and 32 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 3: emphasize that we're going to not have a line anymore 33 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 3: between work and personal expression free expression if we continue 34 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,559 Speaker 3: to kind of go down this path. You know, when 35 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: can you clock off if you can't do it on 36 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: your way to work and express your opinion? 37 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: Well, okay, the thing is, sometimes, so, Nick, are you married, Yes? 38 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: I am. 39 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: Okay, So sometimes have you never had an instance where 40 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: your wife does something and you're like, I'm assuming that 41 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: your marriage a woman by the way, or your spouse 42 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: does something and you're embarrassed by it, and you go 43 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: to the person affected and you go, I'm sorry, they 44 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: shouldn't have behaved like that, you know, to kind of 45 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: preserve your own reputation. 46 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: Well, well, of course, but the point here is that, 47 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: I mean, and this is all. 48 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: Their Tonking and Taylor are doing right. They have been 49 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: embarrassed publicly. The guy is wearing their lanyard, so they 50 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: are just all they're doing is putting a bit of 51 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: a distance and going sorry about this guy. We're just 52 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: going to get him and remind him, you know, don't 53 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: do that. And what's the problem with that? 54 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 3: Well, I think that's the point though, is that you know, 55 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 3: they can they could be embarrassed, and they can apologize 56 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 3: if they want. 57 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 2: But the thing is that this guy is not at work. 58 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 3: You know, he's not at work when he does this stuff, and. 59 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: He says these words. 60 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 3: He's entitled to have a political opinion on topics. And 61 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: I mean clearly this kind of you know, rhetoric that's 62 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: being used not just by this guy, but by people recently, 63 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 3: you know, Andrew Advance. You can name lots of people 64 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 3: using language that clearly doesn't elevate political discourse. 65 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: This isn't issue. It's a problem. 66 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 3: But is it your employer's problem if it has nothing 67 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 3: to do with what they. 68 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: Offer as a service or you know, or whatever it's 69 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: a company. 70 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 3: I just think that we're dealing here with something that's 71 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 3: just not relevant. It's not a reputational issue. 72 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: It is because it. 73 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Is a reputational issue. I know that you guys, I 74 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: understand that you are holding a principle and I respect 75 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: you for that, but you also have to live in 76 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: the real world, and it is a reputational issue for 77 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: them if they do not at least distance themselves from 78 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: him and also Nick, is. 79 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 3: It They're welcome to distance themselves. 80 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: That's but it's not not really a disciplinary you know issue? 81 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: Is it? 82 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: Because I agree with you? Well that I agree, that's. 83 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: What that's what we're saying. That's but that's what we're saying. 84 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: Okay. But so there are two things going on here 85 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: is the disciplinary action and the apology. Now with the apology, 86 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: do you accept do you agree with me? The apology 87 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: is okay because actually the chief executive also has free 88 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: speech and has free speech which entitles her to say sorry. 89 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, of course we're going to argue that they 90 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: shouldn't apologize if they want to. 91 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: Is it necessary? We don't think so. 92 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: Okay. So the disciplinary matter, are you okay with T 93 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: and T getting them in and going, hey, listen, don't 94 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: do that with a lanyard around your neck, off you go? 95 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: Is that okay with you. 96 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think the issue around the lanyard 97 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 3: is one that actually stemmed from the media who were 98 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 3: present at that event, going who was this guy, and 99 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: then they wanted to kind of chase the story up. 100 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: I don't think that they really needed to do that. 101 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 3: And I think every time we go after people's sort 102 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: of personal backgrounds and start getting into stuff that actually 103 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 3: wasn't really relevant at the time. This guy was just 104 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 3: one of many employees expressing a political opinion in a 105 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: way that many would consider very crude. I mean, it 106 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 3: doesn't help clearly, you know, to use that kind of language, 107 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 3: But why chase the story so far? It just seems like, 108 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 3: you know, there are other big issues we could be 109 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: talking about, and this has become something, you know, it's 110 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: a bit of a bit of a circus. 111 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: YEP, I would agree with you on that, Nick, Thanks 112 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: very much in the can Free Speech Union. 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