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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks.

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Speaker 2: They'd be it's time to catch up with protical psychologist

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Speaker 2: Google Sutherland, who's with us this morning with a fascinating

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Speaker 2: new study.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Google, Cure Jack and I think you know,

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Speaker 3: the biggest question on everybody's lips was when when the

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Speaker 3: Smiths are going to be coming up?

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Speaker 2: Smith?

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Speaker 4: Don't you do that?

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Speaker 3: You're not going to I know they're not going to

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Speaker 3: reunite any time at all, but you know, that.

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Speaker 4: Would have been. That'd be a great thing to I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, that would be like a little Morrissey tour would.

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Speaker 3: Be yeah, yeah, well yeah, that's not going to happen,

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Speaker 3: but anyway, yes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, it's yeah, yeah, that would be. That

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Speaker 2: would be a real trick.

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Speaker 4: Now, that would be.

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Speaker 2: There's probably My theory is just that there's money in.

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Speaker 3: It, you know, one hundred you know, if you look

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Speaker 3: at the people who you know, they're targeting at those

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Speaker 3: people who are probably their kids have left home and

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Speaker 3: they've got a little bit of extra spending cash, and

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, we could go to that as opposed as

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Speaker 3: a four old you know, you know, twenty year olds

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Speaker 3: who are struggling on the doll and don't have any

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Speaker 3: money to spend on concert tickets.

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Speaker 4: So let's tag at the people with lots of money

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Speaker 4: in their pocket.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, I've just done a quick google. Apparently apparently

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Speaker 2: Morrissey is playing in Bogatart.

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Speaker 4: Really in Colombia. There you go. Okay, look, you know

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Speaker 4: with a trip, I guess playing a.

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Speaker 2: Bit and then and then following it up with a

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Speaker 2: concert in Greece. So okay, Well there's wouldn't say never.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's Christmas time and like you know,

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Speaker 3: it's people are looking around for a gift ideas for me,

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Speaker 3: so that family that's.

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Speaker 2: Like the budget extends.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, exceltely.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's funny we're always looking for Yeah. We always

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Speaker 2: hear that our phone usage is you know, we all

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Speaker 2: many of us are on our phones too much, and

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Speaker 2: that often our phone usage can be kind of anty social.

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Speaker 2: It leads to all sorts of negative impacts. But there's

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Speaker 2: a fascinating new study you have for us this week

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Speaker 2: look at ways to try and spot early signs of

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Speaker 2: problems like depression or bipole. And it's linked to your phone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, And it was when I when I

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Speaker 3: started reading this, I thought, you know, oh god, it'd

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Speaker 3: just be another way one of those ones that says

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Speaker 3: stop doom scrolling and blah blah blah and get off

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Speaker 3: social media and it and our goy was I was

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Speaker 3: really fascinated by this. So what they did, now before

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Speaker 3: people get excited or worried, perhaps worried, they did have

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Speaker 3: to download a special keyboard for use in this study.

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Speaker 4: So this wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Monitoring your your your phone just by some sort of nefarious.

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Speaker 2: They knew this was happening. It wasn't somebody.

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Speaker 3: They knew this was no, no, no, and they had

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Speaker 3: a special keyboard to monitor it. But basically what they

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Speaker 3: found was that a number of interesting patterns emerged from

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Speaker 3: looking at people's keystrokes on their on their phone, on

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Speaker 3: their cell phone.

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Speaker 4: So sort of three main things that they found.

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Speaker 3: Certainly, when people were starting to get depressed, so they

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Speaker 3: were okay, but then they were those early warning signs

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Speaker 3: starting to come on. They started to notice much lower

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Speaker 3: accuracy in their spell and they're typing speed going up

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Speaker 3: and down, which is probably they think reflective of you know,

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Speaker 3: when you start to get a bit depressed, you're thinking

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Speaker 3: everything kind of slows down a bit, and it's a

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Speaker 3: bit like thinking sort of in mud and you try,

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Speaker 3: it's always a bit more of a struggle. They found

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Speaker 3: that people tended to use their phone more when they

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Speaker 3: were getting than they were when they're not depressed, which

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Speaker 3: they were thinking might be related to lonely and withdrawing

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Speaker 3: socially and therefore starting to use my phone.

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Speaker 2: Moremsel lonelier and withdraw further. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of self fulfilling prophecy, right in terms of, yeah,

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Speaker 3: now you spend lots of time on your phone and

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Speaker 3: you don't socialize as much, and then you worry about

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Speaker 3: the fact that nobody's really calling me, or I haven't

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Speaker 3: been out with anybody, so I'll go on my phone more.

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Speaker 4: So that's it's it's a it's a tricky, you know,

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Speaker 4: spiral to fall into. I think the most fascinating one

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Speaker 4: that I found, anyway, was.

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Speaker 3: That they found that people when they're getting depressed had

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Speaker 3: much higher rates of using their backspace key, which.

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Speaker 4: Is like wow.

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Speaker 3: And again it's the the idea that you're probably typing.

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Speaker 4: More errors.

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Speaker 3: When you are or thinking or getting caught up in

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Speaker 3: your own thinking, and so you're typing something and then

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Speaker 3: oh no, no, that's not writ in backspace, backspace, backspace, And

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Speaker 3: so they found that there was an increased rate of

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Speaker 3: this increase rate of backspacing using your keyboard on your

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Speaker 3: phone predicted whether you're become.

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Speaker 4: Depressed or not, which was quite a quite a fascinating

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Speaker 4: little finding.

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Speaker 2: I thought, it is really interesting, is what I anticipated

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Speaker 2: you would say, So is it? Do you think because

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Speaker 2: people are like second guessing themselves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, second guessing and getting caught up and you start

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Speaker 3: writing something and then go oh no, you know that's

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Speaker 3: not right, or and maybe part of it too again

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Speaker 3: that's sort of slowing down of your thinking skills that you,

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Speaker 3: I know, what.

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Speaker 4: Do I want to say? I can't?

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Speaker 3: Oh no that's not right. Back backpack, back back, and

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Speaker 3: you know, just self doubt too. You know, when you

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Speaker 3: get depressed, you doubt yourself and think, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: no that I shouldn't say that. No, no, So so

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Speaker 3: there was just this increased flurry of backspacing, and they

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Speaker 3: found that that was a really great predictor of when

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Speaker 3: people were going to get depressed. So I thought, I

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Speaker 3: thought that was such a fascinating you know, just from

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Speaker 3: one literally almost one key on your phone was going

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Speaker 3: to predict your mood. It was sort of like, wow,

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Speaker 3: that's that could be That could be revolutionary in many ways.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So what do you think are the possible implications

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Speaker 2: from this?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I think, you know, you could conceivably we're

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Speaker 3: beginning to use apps in AI more and more in

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Speaker 3: mental health, and I know it's a debatable area and

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Speaker 3: we need to do it with lots of caution, But

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Speaker 3: imagine if you could hook this up, you know, and

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Speaker 3: that you've got an alert on your phone saying hey, look,

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Speaker 3: we've noticed in the past couple of days your backspace

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Speaker 3: rate has increased. We're wondering this might be a, you know,

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Speaker 3: an early sign of depression.

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Speaker 4: What do you know? Do you want to do something

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Speaker 4: about it? So just give people that feedback.

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Speaker 3: If you're working with a psychologist or a counselor, it

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Speaker 3: might be able to send them some info in real

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Speaker 3: time saying, hey, you know, perhaps monitor Google. We've just

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Speaker 3: noticed as backspace rate has increased.

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Speaker 4: That might indicate as moods going down.

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Speaker 3: But just really sort of linking in a real kind

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Speaker 3: of early intervention self awareness, and I think it could

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Speaker 3: be potentially quite revolutionary.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting. Isn't that amazing? I suppose in some

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Speaker 2: respects this is a bit of good news about the

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Speaker 2: technology in our lives, if you're honest in a productive way.

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Speaker 3: Look, let's remember, really that the Internet is just a tool,

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Speaker 3: and we can use the tool for good or for

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Speaker 3: in quotes bad. And I think this is an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to see how we could potentially use it for something

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Speaker 3: for something good, for something helpful for our mental health,

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Speaker 3: rather than it's sort of being always the thing.

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Speaker 4: That's causing our mental health problems.

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Speaker 3: This is actually the flips and saying, hey, look, if

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Speaker 3: we harness this technology properly, maybe maybe it could be

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Speaker 3: really useful for helping people's.

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Speaker 2: Mentor Yeah, yeah, great point. Hey, thank you so much too.

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Speaker 2: Will you always find these amazing studies? For us, we'd

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Speaker 2: never never come across the table, but for you and we, honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: I spend many many hours jack late at night looking

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Speaker 3: for these studies just so I can come on and

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Speaker 3: tell you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I can't imagine they're all this interesting. So the

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Speaker 2: fact that really interesting ones and and filter them for

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Speaker 2: us there's very much appreciated.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of drudgery there that I just

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Speaker 4: had to scroll and.

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Speaker 2: Go yeah, yeah, Hey, thank you so much, have a

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Speaker 2: great weekend.

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Speaker 4: Hold you again.

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Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live

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Speaker 1: to news talks that'd be from nine am Saturday, or

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