1 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: It is the sixth of August twenty twenty four and 2 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: this is your daily bespoke podcast. Welcome all you bespokey dokies. 3 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: It's a serious podcast today, So boys. 4 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 2: I want you to not embarrass me. We're talking to 5 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: We're going to interview Chuck Enwood. 6 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: He served thirty seven years in South Auckland before retiring 7 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven. He had the rank of 8 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: a detective sergeant and was rewarded a record three Silver 9 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: Merit awards during his time as an officer. Now and 10 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: as early seventies, Hendwood has six grown up children and 11 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: he lives in Cambridge. 12 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: Is a really interesting boch. It's about how this guy started. 13 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: The criminal profiling units. So when they were trying to 14 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: solve crimes in New Zealand, they used to do them 15 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: independently and act as if every criminal, every crime was 16 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: committed by different people. And then Chuck Enwood started reading 17 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: up overseas about MS. Modus operati and on the theory 18 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: that most crime has committed lots of crimes are committed 19 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: by one person as opposed to you know what I mean, Like, 20 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: criminals commit a lot of crimes. So if you're a 21 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: criminal a murderer or a rapist, then you were quite 22 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: likely to do those things more than once. And so 23 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: he started the criminal Profiling Unit in New Zealand which 24 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: had never been before, which was psychologists kind of like 25 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: what you might see on TV, you know, like Criminal 26 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: Minds and those kind of TV shows where you had 27 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: a group of people that were trying to go from 28 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: crime to crime and link them using science and psychology. 29 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: Because we forget and I think there was only a 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: recent thing about mid eighties when people started taking serial 31 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: killers as a serious thing, as people whenever there was 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: a murder, people would just you know, the idea of 33 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 3: murders being linked, I think was quite a foreign idea. Yeah, yeah, 34 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 3: I mean it was similar to the TV show, was it, 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 3: mind Hunter that examined a similar thing over in the States, And. 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was ahead of his time or chocky, yeah, 37 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: chucky wise and you know, but it is the case 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: with crime. So there's a lot of burglaries, but there's 39 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: not that many burglars because if you're a professional burglar, 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: you might do one hundred and. 41 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: Fifty houses, you know, and so. 42 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: When you put one burglar away, you actually end up 43 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: solving a whole lot of a whole lot of burglaries. 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: And it's the same with horrific crimes like rape as 45 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: well as these people that just repeat and repeat again. 46 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: And so you know, if you can profile them and 47 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: work out what they do and why they do it, 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: then you can maybe you know, bust them quicker and 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: know what they're can do and help people predict themselves. 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: So it's a pretty serious thing. 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: And what I found interesting when I read the book 52 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: as that you think that this would all be known about, 53 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: but you realize that policing is something that changes with 54 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: time and people get better at it. I mean, for me, 55 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: I thought, sure Holmes, he got it all sorted way 56 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: back in the day. I know he was a private investigator, 57 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: but you know, like you'd go to a scene, you'd 58 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: work it out, youselve the crime quickly too, yeah, quite quickly, 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: you know. But it turns out that policing was quite rudimentary. 60 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: Like even in the eighties, you just sort of some 61 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: dudes just rocked around in a car, sort of knocked 62 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: on some. 63 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: Doors, did chucky hands and hin would sorry have a 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: Michael Watson, you know, like if they have a sidekick, 65 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: maybe that's a question I could ask, makes you. 66 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: He had his criminal profile and unit, which was a 67 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: group of people Watson's, Yeah, Grover Watsons that have him solved. 68 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: I mean he solved the murder of the Ghost, which 69 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: was a horrific rapist that was operating for a long time. 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: Yep. 71 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so and that that was what's the guy's name, 72 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: the ghost when they found him. 73 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 4: His name was Joseph Thompson. 74 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 2: Joseph Thompson, that's right. Yeah. 75 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: He also Malcolm Rawa, he dealt with him. And also 76 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: he was one of the first people to remember Tenor Porter. 77 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 4: Oh, yes, Tan of Porter. 78 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: He wasn't he was wrongly convicted and and Chuck Enward 79 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: knowing his stuff. 80 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: He was. He was an advocate for this guy. 81 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: So he was finding people that have done it and 82 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: find people that have been accused of doing it and 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: be convicted of doing it, and bloody campaigning for them. 84 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: That must have been quite hard being in the police 85 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 4: and saying, actually, guys, I think you've got this wrong, 86 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 4: and to continue campaigning, yeah, against other policemen. Yeah, saying 87 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 4: you've got this one wrong. I still working there. 88 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: Imagined that would have been quite a it's kind of 89 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: a Marcher organization back in the day, wouldn't you know, 90 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: like set in their ways is the way we've been 91 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: doing it. In fact, he talks about at his book 92 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: about how it used to work, like a lot of 93 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: it was police just putting it off to other They 94 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: knew if they wrapped up cases and sent it down 95 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: to other police stations, they wouldn't have to deal with it. 96 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: So they'd have a because a lot of criminals work 97 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: in freezing works, they'd have a suspects thought to be 98 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: in a freezing work. So you have that case in 99 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: South Aukland and you go, oh, well, there's a freedom 100 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: works near in Vicago, so we'll send it down to 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: that police station and it would just go around and 102 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: so you're basically just sending them off because there was 103 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: no computers, so there was no cross referencing and that 104 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And he talks about a police sergeant 105 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: who had just basically locked the door and put his 106 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: feet up at night, and you'd been in a lot 107 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: of trouble if you're knocked on the door. 108 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: So yeah, thing things had to change. But you know, 109 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: when you look. 110 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: Back, and like I always think about the David Bain 111 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: case and the cops that knocked on the door there, 112 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: and one of them was my friend's dad, Constable Murray's 113 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: stab and he'd been a a traffic cop not long 114 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: before that. So you had these cops that were no 115 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: fault of their own. They weren't really trained for these 116 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: full on circumstances. They were just turning up knocking on 117 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: the door, you see, like a multiple family murder like that. 118 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: Then you know, what do you do with that? Yeah, 119 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: and say, it's just it's just interesting. We always think 120 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: that the police is this unit that's sorted out and 121 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: knows what they're doing, a cohesive knows what it's doing 122 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: with the planned procedure experts bored and those white suits, 123 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: the CSI type situation, and you know, it hasn't always 124 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: been like that. 125 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 2: It used to be for a long time. 126 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: Reading this book, it seems like it was a bit 127 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: of a bloody cowboy operation and just because they didn't know, 128 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't went. 129 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 2: You know. 130 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: Also, it's interesting in this book, I should ask these 131 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: questions if Chuck Kinwood when he comes in, But just 132 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: what police training used to be like? It used to 133 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: be pretty freaking intense. 134 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 4: Which just couldn't email saying, is that reception? So I'm 135 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: just duck o all right? 136 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: So interesting because a lot of people called Hinward the 137 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: last name Hinwood, get called Chuck as. 138 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: A joke because of the hen m. Do Heinward's never 139 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: gone for the Chuck Inwood? 140 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 5: Is he? No? He is not. 141 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: And I might start calling him. 142 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: Calling him Chuck Inward. 143 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: It'll be confusing, just as Chuck Ininwoods book comes out 144 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: if we start. 145 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: Calling Die Heinwood Chuck Inward. 146 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: But anyway, we'll be back and just a moment with 147 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: Chuck Hinward discussing unmasking monsters, how the hunt for New 148 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: Zealand's worst criminals changed policing forever. 149 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: All right then? Okay? Is that all right? Mash? You 150 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: got a problem with that? 151 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 3: No, I'm just going to play the doors the under 152 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 3: three Jesus Man one, Okay. 153 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 4: Shit. 154 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 2: David chuck Inward. 155 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: So for thirty seven years in the South Auckland Police 156 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: before retiring in two thousand and seven. He held the 157 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: rank of Detective sergeant and was awarded a record three 158 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: Silver Merit Awards during his time as an officer. Now 159 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: on his early seventies, looking Boddy good, Edward has six 160 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: grown up children, Geez well done and lives in Cambridge. 161 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: He has written the book Unmasking Monsters, How the Hunt 162 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: for New Zealand's worst criminals changed, Placing Forever, and he's 163 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: in the studio with us. 164 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: Great to see you. It's a great book, Chuck, congratulations 165 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: on that and thanks for coming in. 166 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 5: Thanks very much. Matt. 167 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write it? 168 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 5: Five years? 169 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: Five years. 170 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 5: I've been on some long inquiries, but none of them 171 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 5: quite lasted five years. 172 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: Did you have all your notebooks? 173 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 5: I went from I've got rid of a lot of 174 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 5: my notebooks now yeah, right, too much? Too much there. 175 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 5: So you know, I've been gone for a few years 176 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 5: now and I've burned them. 177 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: Oh right, you burned them. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. 178 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: I should probably burn my all the notes on everything 179 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: I've been up to my life as well at some point. 180 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 3: So how did that work? Chip? When you when you retired? 181 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 6: Mate? 182 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 3: Did you did you kind of go this is it? 183 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: And I no longer want to think about any of 184 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 3: the stuff that I've been focusing on for so long 185 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: now for the last one forty years. As his here 186 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 3: that your career wasn't the end? 187 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 5: No, not really, I've only recently got rid of the 188 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 5: notebooks and stuff. I knew there was cases still going 189 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 5: and I had to keep kind of active on them. 190 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 5: And although I left in two thousand and seven as 191 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 5: a sworn member, I did hang on around for another 192 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 5: nine years in a non sworn position. So yeah, and 193 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 5: your stuff was boiling away in the background. So yeah, 194 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 5: I kept. 195 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: Notebooks essentially how you got into policing, and you know, 196 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: sort of these little decisions in your life. I've got 197 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: my son who's seventeen at the moment, he's making decisions 198 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: about his life, and you're at such a strange age 199 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: to make a decision. And you made that decision I'm 200 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: going to join the police, and went down to the 201 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: police training, which the police training but very different back 202 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: then than it is now. 203 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 5: Absolutely the old World War One barracks and strength. But 204 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 5: I've never heard anybody criticize what we went through there. 205 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 5: It was a it was a kind of a learning 206 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 5: care for all of us, and we learned a lot 207 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 5: and it was a it was a great place. 208 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 4: Really. 209 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: I was thinking about that because there's a bit of hazing, 210 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: and it all sounds full on and you're sort of tested, 211 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, you know, there's a there's an incident where 212 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: with buying some alcohol and stuff where you're think you're 213 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: going to be kicked out, but you're not, et cetera. 214 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: But shouldn't police training be really hard Because being a 215 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: police officer is really quite a hardcore. 216 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: Thing to do. It kind of makes sense that the 217 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: training's brutal. 218 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think so. I think they chop you down 219 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 5: to the basics and then kind of build you up again. 220 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 5: And I think that was the idea. Guessing probably, but yeah, 221 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 5: I mean we it was well, I mean, police is 222 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 5: a discipline thing. I mean, we can't just go out 223 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 5: on the street with everybody with a different opinion and 224 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 5: do what your bloody want, you know, with the public 225 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 5: will come off second best if that happened. So, yeah, 226 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 5: it is a discipline thing, and it was very disciplined. 227 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 5: I think we were more disciplined than the army idiots 228 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 5: across the road, to be honest. We had we had 229 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 5: twelve inch rule downs on our on our sheets, on 230 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 5: our bed and they'd come in in the morning. We 231 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 5: had those those kind of serge uniforms, navy blue they 232 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 5: called it. It looked like black to me, but and they 233 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 5: would you know, they'd rub you and make you rub 234 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 5: the mat down down the front of your uniform, and 235 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 5: then five minutes you had to be out on commodants 236 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 5: parade and and so you had to have another You 237 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 5: had to kind of learn on the hype to put 238 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 5: and make sure you had another spear one and put 239 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 5: in the cupboard, you know, so you could leap into 240 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 5: that and get out on their Otherwise you'd be confined 241 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 5: to barracks, which wasn't a bad thing. We didn't have 242 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 5: any money anywhere to go anywhere. 243 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: So I like when you get out into the police 244 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: forcing and of course you're too to the amount of 245 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: use you guys would get. I'd never really thought about that. 246 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: There's a bit you talk about how when you're you know, 247 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: you're underage, and you're standing outside bars because you can't 248 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: go in to bust them. I can't go and to 249 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: bust people because you're too young to go in, so 250 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: you stand out the front and just get abused by 251 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: people as they're getting thrown out. 252 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 5: I think that was part of the learning too. Yeah, 253 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 5: I just got your use of the idea. 254 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 3: So what happened, Shuck, So after you got into policing, 255 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: at what stage, mate, was it that, you know what, 256 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 3: it's the investigative side that I want to hid into 257 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: or was that always kind of your thoughts from the 258 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: get go. 259 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 5: No, it wasn't my thoughts from the go get go. 260 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 5: And when I when I first joined, when I got 261 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 5: out on the street, CIB were kind of a leaf bunch, okay, 262 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 5: And that's changed, I think. And it wasn't until I 263 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 5: got kind of offside with one of the big bosses 264 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 5: and I ended up in the watchhouse, stuck inside for 265 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 5: a long time, and I was driving me cranky. So 266 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 5: I thought the only way to get out was to 267 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 5: join CIB. And that was a real real thing. And 268 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 5: the funny thing was I never put the uniform back 269 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 5: on once I jaw and so you stuck with it. 270 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: Well, tell us about investigating at that time, because there 271 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: was approach which was each crime was just on its own, 272 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: as opposed to linking crimes together. 273 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: Am I right? 274 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 5: Yeah. It was a few years in the CIB. You know, 275 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 5: I was already a detective sergeant by the time we 276 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 5: struck Operation Park and and you know, we just were 277 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 5: going through homicides and plenty of serious stuff. But this 278 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 5: we had this rape a number of rapes and manor 279 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 5: Riwa in ninety three and we all our normal conventional 280 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 5: policing methods went catching them, you know, we go nowhere. 281 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 5: And I thought, we've tried to trying to find out 282 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 5: where this guy come from. And I went up went 283 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 5: up to Ada. Who I remember there was a few 284 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 5: unsolved rapes in South Auckland around that time, few years earlier. 285 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 5: So I went up there, I got all the files 286 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 5: and I brought them back and that was the beginning 287 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 5: of the behavioral analysis. Really, I just sat down at 288 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 5: nighttime and I was meant to be asleep and I 289 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 5: couldn't do it at work, and I just went through 290 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 5: file by file by file and was stunning. It was 291 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 5: all these unsolved rapes through Otara and Odahu and Papatoe 292 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 5: and and you could once you've looked at them. And 293 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 5: then I did a bit of kind of reading, and 294 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 5: it was quite obvious that these were all committed by 295 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 5: one guy. You know, we're not looking for a whole 296 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 5: lot of individuals here, We're looking for one guy. And 297 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 5: that's how it turned out to be. 298 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: And how does that, you know feel when you get 299 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: on You know, there's obviously a person that's a repeat offender, 300 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: and you know that's a sort of a ticking time 301 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: bomb for you to sort of solve the situation before 302 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: he strikes again. 303 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean in the police, you know, we talk 304 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 5: about not enough staff. It's always always been like that. 305 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 5: I mean in South Auckland anyway, there's near enough staff. 306 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 5: You're bully and fighting for one piece of a little 307 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 5: bit of a pie. And so you know you're trying 308 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 5: to investigate it the best you can with shortage of numbers, 309 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 5: and you know you've got one guy out there, but 310 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 5: it was a matter of how do you find him? 311 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 5: You know, that was our problem and it wasn't resolved 312 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 5: for quite a while. 313 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you started to see these similarities between 314 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: these cases and was there a pushback from when you're 315 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: trying to say that, when you're trying to approach things 316 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: in a different way. 317 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 5: I think they accepted it after a while, but initially 318 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 5: they didn't. Initially they were pushed back on it, I think. 319 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 5: But then of course the good ideas are come along 320 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 5: with their DNA and they matched a number of them 321 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 5: that we said were that I said were linked. And 322 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 5: as soon as the ESR come along, with those and 323 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 5: linked although they knew you had a problem, but I 324 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 5: don't think I don't think they really saw how serious was. 325 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 5: And initially, you know, because there's always serious crimes going 326 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 5: on and everybody's trying to get a piece of the pie. 327 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 5: And we were fighting and yeah, and. 328 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: How how was that particular case solved? 329 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 5: Well after a while, and I think with a lot 330 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 5: of political media and a lot of people pushing. 331 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: This is real, this is the ghost at that point, Yeah, this. 332 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 5: Is this is Jay Thompson. Yeah, and we, you know, 333 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 5: we got pushed into it. And then we could see 334 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 5: that it was getting worse, that the victims were getting 335 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 5: more whacked around what it was getting The violence was increasing, 336 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 5: the number of rapes were going on, and as you're 337 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 5: as you're trying to solve the last one, at the 338 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 5: same time you're trying to prevent the next one from happening, 339 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 5: and with reduced stuffs, it was difficult. And it was 340 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 5: John Manning by this stage had taken over the inquiry 341 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 5: and a cliff fella, and he he had done a 342 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 5: little bit on criminal profiling and already in another case 343 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 5: that Janeine Law I'm sure if you've known about Jeanine law. 344 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 5: But anyway, it's a little bit done on that, and 345 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 5: he extended that into a great big mission, if you like, 346 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 5: with and it was going to the whole inquiry was 347 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 5: going to be based around criminal profiling, which is a 348 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 5: big step because if it failed here to get shot. 349 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 5: And so we've got a lot of we've got staff 350 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 5: to for this to work, we had to get a 351 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 5: lot more staff. So we had to go into a 352 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 5: lot of blooding and get these lists of suspects. And 353 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 5: so that's what happened, and we got staff from all 354 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 5: over the country came in and they were staying up 355 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 5: hotels all over the place, and it was a massive investigation. 356 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 5: By the stage we've already been going for eighteen months. 357 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 5: So conventional policing, the public went going to be able 358 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 5: to give us the name of the offender. So we 359 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 5: went this way and it worked. I mean, Joe Thompson's 360 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 5: name and all the hundreds of it east like fold 361 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 5: as I had from more conventional piecing. His name never 362 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: come up once, so we're never going to catch him. 363 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 5: And then when criminal profiling came along, as the name 364 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 5: popped up all over the place. So what we did 365 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 5: the idea of criminal profile is we couldn't catch him 366 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 5: in then now, so we caught him in the past 367 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 5: and something that he can't change. That's that's where he 368 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 5: was so wow. 369 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: And there must have been a huge amount of satiffection 370 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: as it started to work, because you know, it's an 371 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: idea and you think, well, that's not working what we're doing. 372 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: This is another plan. But for it to actually work 373 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: so well must have been quite something. 374 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,479 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and it was. It was really great relief. 375 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 5: I can say that for a lot of us. So yeah, 376 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 5: it was great. And then of course when we spoke 377 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 5: to Joe brit Simpson and I went and spoke to 378 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 5: him and he just opened the door to his house 379 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 5: and his life and the interview went for twenty hours, 380 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 5: told us everything, told us all about the rapes that 381 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 5: we had on our list, but I had forty on 382 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 5: the list by that stage, Jesus, and he told us 383 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 5: about a whole lot of others we didn't know about. 384 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 5: Some of them hadn't been reported, others we just couldn't 385 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 5: find in our filing system. So yeah, he was been 386 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 5: going on for a decade, you know. 387 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: And so from then the Criminal Profiling Unit, which sounds 388 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: like something should be a TV show that's been running 389 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: for twenty five years, the Criminal Profiling News of New Zealand. 390 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: In fact, if there's any television producers around, it sounds 391 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: like the exact kind of thing that would get some 392 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: good funding. But then that became like a solid, solid thing. 393 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 5: After that, Well, we had to go into Operation Harve 394 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 5: you before that, and that was Malcolm ray Way. Oh yes, 395 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 5: And we increased our knowledge on behavior I did over 396 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 5: reading books and reading and when you when you read 397 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 5: enough victim statements, that certain kind of elements become clear 398 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 5: and you can kind of feel like you feel like 399 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 5: if if you read a rape's complaint, a rape complainant statement, 400 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 5: you can kind of think, I've read this guy before. 401 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 5: You know, it's just like reading reading a book by 402 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 5: one of your favorite authors, if you like, you know, 403 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 5: and you know, if you study is crime, you can 404 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 5: get a bit of his personality. And that's that's what 405 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 5: we were doing. I think the idea of behavioral analysis. 406 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 5: You know, they talk a lot about criminal profile and 407 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 5: but behavioral analysis was the was the guts of it 408 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 5: all and understanding the person who's committing this offense. And 409 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 5: then you've got it. Then you put the criminal profile 410 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 5: together from that analysis. So we did that in Harvey 411 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 5: and again we locked up. Malcolm Rable went on for years. 412 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 5: Trial was three months long. I gave evidence as I 413 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 5: was accepted as an expert on rape behavior, so I 414 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 5: gave evidence which backed up the victims. He got convicted. 415 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 5: That there was a little bit of a heck up there. 416 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So I mean that stuff must be pretty frustrating. 417 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know, Malcolm rave has now been convicted 418 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 5: to the murderous seasion? 419 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 4: Did it? 420 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 5: End of story? Really, It's took a long time, but 421 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 5: it's there. 422 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: Would you say that people are slightly less complicated than 423 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: we think? Like you say, you read the story and 424 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: you see these traits people like you know, you say 425 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: the similar things. Betweople are people in a way simpler 426 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: and repeat the things, including criminals that other people do 427 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: because we all think we're amazing the complex people and everything. 428 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: But there seems to be similar things about people. 429 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 5: There are similar things about the way you carry out 430 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 5: a rape. But I think people are complicated human human 431 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 5: age is very complicated. But and I'm already kind of 432 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 5: talking about wonder la aspect, I don't know but I mean, 433 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 5: if you think about a person growing up and he 434 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 5: has a fantasy and he's got to live that fantasy 435 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 5: at each time, he is going to do that, and 436 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 5: that's where you find the little similarities. Yeah, right, the 437 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 5: unusual things. We're not talking about the fact that he 438 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 5: broke in through a window and he did this. I mean, 439 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 5: this is em that's a behavior that people do just 440 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 5: to get in there. It's the things he does to 441 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 5: get his rocks off, if you like. 442 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's what I found really interesting. But the 443 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: concept that people know what they're doing is bad and 444 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: they don't want to do it, but then they do, 445 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: and then they just do it, and once again they're 446 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: doing the thing that they know, they feel bad and 447 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: they're guilty about. But there's such a huge compulsion to 448 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: do these crimes that it's almost unstoppable for them, to 449 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: the point where they'll destroy their entire life and a 450 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: whole lot of other people's lives for this compulsion. 451 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 5: That came out fortunately with Jay Thompson's interview, and he 452 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 5: said that that he couldn't stop himself and he just 453 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 5: need to go out and have this appetite and he 454 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 5: didn't know what it was whether it was love, whether 455 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,479 Speaker 5: it was need to have somebody with him or to 456 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 5: hold somebody in his arms, or whatever it was. I mean, 457 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 5: there's a quote in the book about it and what 458 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 5: he explained. But I think at the other end of 459 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 5: that is that they're very narcissistic and they're saciopathic. Really 460 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 5: they at the end of the day, they don't They're 461 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 5: not sitting in their cell block now worried about the victims, right, 462 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 5: They're worrying about themselves. 463 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: And so you see that as evil. 464 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 5: There's evil in the world, absolutely, of course there is, 465 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 5: But I mean there's out of a lot of good 466 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 5: stuff too, And that's why I stayed in South Auckland, 467 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 5: you know, because people are pretty critical and of things 468 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 5: that happen. And I think if you stay in a 469 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 5: place long enough and he just look under the surface 470 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 5: a bit, there's all a lot of good people out 471 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 5: there trying to kind of survive in an environment that 472 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 5: probably most of us don't really understand, and how hard 473 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 5: it is to kind of live extore to women, gang 474 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 5: members and trying to bring up a family and where 475 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 5: the family next door don't do anything except sell drugs 476 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 5: and they drive around in a Harley and the family 477 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 5: next door have got father and mother both working two 478 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 5: jobs and they're struggling to make ends meet and you're 479 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 5: going to bring your kids up. 480 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So what do you think of, like, so 481 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: you know all these changes that came, the criminal profiling 482 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: and stuff, what do you think of where policing is 483 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: at now in New Zealand? 484 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 2: Because what what? 485 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: What? 486 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: Actually? 487 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: Was I found really interesting the bookcause I'd always thought 488 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: the police had everything sorted out in a way. I mean, 489 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: there's there's cases they come up and you see mistakes 490 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: and a court and stuff, but you kind of feel 491 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: like the police are the solid unit. But you kind 492 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: of get the feeling that police for the longest time 493 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: just been mucking through against an impossible of task. Is 494 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: police with all the technology now and and you know 495 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: all this knowledge that's come through, is is it? I mean, 496 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: how do you feel about policing now? 497 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: Is it? 498 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 2: You've got more faith in it? 499 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 5: Well, policing. You know, we're never going to win the war. 500 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 5: All you do is go out and win the battles 501 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 5: for victims, and that's what we're ever going to do. 502 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 5: It's not going to get any better. Society is not 503 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 5: going to get any better. Base that on the fact 504 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 5: that we're kind of we're at them and kind of 505 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 5: on the edge of them and nowhere as far as 506 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 5: morality is concerned, and there's going to be a lot 507 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 5: more people like Malcolm Row and Joe Thompson popping up 508 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 5: and we're going to have to kind of just keep 509 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 5: moving forward. Staffing is always going to be an issue 510 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 5: and and a thing like Operation Park and Harvey. What 511 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,239 Speaker 5: they tell you is if we have enough staff and 512 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 5: we have the right formula, we can catch these people. 513 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 5: But we're never going to have an staff. I mean, 514 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 5: let's face it, that's just not going to happen. And 515 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 5: as for whether we're going to lose staff over the 516 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 5: next little while because of the present situation, as long 517 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 5: as we don't lose our senior nco is the street battlers, 518 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 5: you know, the sergeants, the senior sergeants, we'll be right. 519 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 5: I think we'll get by. But you know, if we 520 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 5: start losing them, we struggling. 521 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming and Chuck 522 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: Enwood unmasking monsters, how they hunt for New Zealand's Worth criminals. 523 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: Change are policing forever. 524 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: It's a fantastic greed and I thoroughly recommend it. It's 525 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: it's available now on Allen and unwe box where if 526 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: you get your box. But yeah, congratulations on the book, mate, 527 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: and on your career, and you're a great New Zealander 528 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: and thank you so much for coming. 529 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 5: Thanks Matt, jess. 530 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: Bert chuck Enwood has left the building. Good look at Matt, 531 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: deep booming voice. 532 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 2: And great pipes, eight pipes. 533 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 3: I could have listened to him all day. I was 534 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: kind of actually just quite happy to let him go. 535 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 4: Yeah you could. 536 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 3: We could have gone for another three hours. We could 537 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 3: have got deeper into all his cases and stuff like that. 538 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: But man, what a man, Yeah, what a mean took 539 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: in would like I really recommend that book and I'm 540 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: asking monsters. It's just an interesting look through the history 541 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: of New Zealand, you know, from the from the early 542 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: eighties right to now, and how much we've changed as 543 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: a society, as well as horrible criminals as well. 544 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 4: Well. 545 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 3: I'm sure we can mention it. We had to chat 546 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 3: to him off here there that we didn't leave on 547 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 3: with the Microsoft for but how to catch up with them? Interesting? 548 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 3: I mean, he's just a fascinating man, he's got a 549 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 3: lot of thoughts about where policing's heading. It's nice that 550 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: he's pretty optimistic about it. You can tell he loves 551 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 3: his cops. He's one of those boys. 552 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, well, I mean he's sort of optimistic. 553 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: And also like, there's always going to be and there's 554 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: going to be more and more bad people and police 555 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: are never going to be able to solve that problem. 556 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: And the real problem is that what do we do 557 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: about how they're caused? Because they're caused by a difficult 558 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: situations where you know, like you know, people living in 559 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: terrible situations with you know, terrible neighbors, you know, and 560 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: the options are very, very poor for them. 561 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 2: So how do you freaking solve that? I mean, I 562 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: don't know. 563 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's the Target longjugrenal study that 564 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: came out a few years ago and it was Tugging 565 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: University and just said basically, you've got to sort people 566 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: out in the first three years or the die is 567 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: cast and they find it very hard to come back 568 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: from that. 569 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: So no one's going to do that. 570 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: Like, we keep pumping money into terstory education, but you 571 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: have to be in a good head space to even 572 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: look at Tertory education or god, I mean, I reckon 573 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: it might be one of those problems that doesn't have 574 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: a solution. 575 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: He had a great quote that you're doing that and 576 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 3: it's the opposite to most things in the sense that 577 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 3: in policing you just got to win the battles. You 578 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: don't you can't worry about the war. Unfortunately the battles 579 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 3: that you find police are never going to win. 580 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: The going to win the war, but that the battles 581 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: just keep going on. 582 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, well, all right, great New Zealander and a year. 583 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: I recommend that book. Give it a geeze. 584 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 4: The publicists that actually came in with Chuck because he's 585 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 4: got that wonderful mustache and as you said, good looking 586 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 4: man for a seventies. She said at the book launch 587 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 4: last night, it was just a whole heap of carbon 588 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 4: copies of Chuck. It all these amazing police officers. But 589 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: the thing that she said that was amazing was that 590 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 4: a lot of the victims of the crimes the police 591 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 4: officers are still really close with and they were along 592 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 4: with the book launch as well, and she just said 593 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 4: it was really interesting to watch these cops that have 594 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 4: in the main retired and still had these relationships with 595 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 4: these these people that they helped over the years, So 596 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 4: you know, you do you do? Hear a lot of 597 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 4: stories about about some not so great cops, but yeah, 598 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 4: obviously there are a lot of really really good police 599 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: out there. 600 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: People that just work their ass off to help victims. 601 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so bless them. But he kind reminds me of 602 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: that actor. What's that actor? Real deep voice, white mustache. 603 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: Ah a boy he was in Yellowstone, not Costner. 604 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 2: Oh God, what's that actor's name. 605 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: It's going to kill me, Jesus Christ, deepest voices in 606 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: He appears in The Big Lebowski talking at the bar, 607 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: and he's got that incredible voice. Someone will know him. 608 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: So he's also in Roadhouse, The Original Roadhouse A right, okay. 609 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 3: Also, by the way, he didn't he just won an 610 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 3: award for having the biggest egg plant. I'm having a 611 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 3: look at the photo of the guy that won the 612 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 3: biggest egg plant here in front of me, and that 613 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 3: might be the same dude. 614 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 4: Similar that's Cocredilations. 615 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to look this up because he's going to 616 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 2: freaking kill me. 617 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: The Original Original Roadhouse, The Original Roadhouse from nineteen eighty nine. 618 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: The actor Sam Elliott. He's got a strong Sam Elliott 619 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: bye about him. 620 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 4: He does too, grandmom, okay. 621 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: Something for the Grandmom's all right then okay, you guys 622 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: seem busy. I'll let you go all right then, okay, okay, boys, 623 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: all right then absolutely, okay, Jesus Jesus, see you, Maddie. 624 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 3: All right, see you guys. 625 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 4: It's good night, mash you. 626 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 3: I've got a computer here if you've signed out talk 627 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: to or you can use this to one either you 628 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 3: want me to do it. Oh yeah, I can do it, mate, 629 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 3: I can do it right. 630 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 4: Okay, make great work today. 631 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 2: Okay, look after yourself. 632 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 4: Should shook ken Wood? 633 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 6: I mean we're still recording on the podcast. Can we 634 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 6: leave this? Are we still recording? Can we leave this? 635 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 5: Bitter? 636 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 6: And then when Matt listens back, help me like what 637 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 6: the fuck are they doing? 638 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? 639 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I bespoke of dokies. Oh this is feels 640 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 3: quite sneaky. 641 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 4: This is so naughty, he met. Can I just say 642 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 4: good job in the last few days, buddy, You're doing well, Maddie, 643 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 4: really bringing the noise without Jerry. 644 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 3: Okay, So if you if you down with the plane 645 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 3: and you haven't hear what we're just talking about is 646 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: now We've going to record a podcast ad for the radio. 647 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 3: So I'm just going to record this. You be with 648 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 3: us Hiperspoky, I'm doing this. 649 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 4: By the way, we got we asked you four pallars 650 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 4: of getting females to the party. We pay tribute to 651 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 4: Seawn Johnson, who's a trialing from the n r L 652 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 4: and we talked took inward inwards with a massive. 653 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 5: Mo in. 654 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 4: What about insured police legend and. 655 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 3: Police legion with with. 656 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 4: An amazing mustache. 657 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 5: Well, the moment. 658 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 4: I'm going to change that. 659 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 3: The besmokey dokeies are some of the luckiest people. 660 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 4: Want they really this is this is equivalent of only fans. 661 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 4: There are some fans that would pay money and they 662 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: don't have to They just have to sit through a 663 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 4: couple of horrendous adverts. They would pay money to do this. 664 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 4: In fact, imagine if we offered up a text competition 665 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 4: and two lucky spoky dookies could come and watch the 666 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 4: live recording of the met and Jury podcast. 667 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 3: When you say lucky with smoky dokies, why are they 668 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: going to sit on the two toilets that di celect 669 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: it from the day and lou. 670 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 4: I reckon, We'll put one of them on the bean 671 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 4: bag behind me. 672 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 3: I know you've already made a mistake. You've let them 673 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 3: in the studio. Yeah, I think that's too close. 674 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 4: No be spoky dokies. In general, the generalization, are really 675 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 4: good people who will listen to what we have to say. 676 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 3: If you want my vote on where they should be. 677 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 3: One under the desk here just me, and under the 678 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 3: in front of you or beside you, and then one 679 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 3: on the Gary chee in the corner of it. 680 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 4: Okay, Now I agree with number two. Number one. 681 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 3: Well, they can get there, you can come and go, 682 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 3: they can move around. I just like at some point 683 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 3: to make an appearance into the desk side. On the 684 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 3: latest Met and Jury podcasts, we ask for your four 685 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 3: pillars of getting females to the party and we played 686 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 3: tribute Paid Tribute Tribute to Shawn Johnson who's retiring from 687 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 3: the NFL. Plus US, we talked to Chuck in Wood 688 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 3: inzid Police Legend with a mo the. 689 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 2: Mana Jury pod. 690 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 3: Okay cool. On the latest Mattenjery podcasts, we ask for 691 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 3: your four pillars of getting females to the party and 692 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 3: we play tribute to Sean Johnson, sorry you said play again, 693 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 3: and we pay tribute and we pay tribute to Sean 694 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 3: Johnson who's retiring from the NRL. Plus, we talked to 695 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 3: Chuck in Wood, Incid police legion with a mint Mo. 696 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 3: The Metenjury Podcast. Two new pods out every weekday at 697 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 3: eleven am on iHeart Radio or your podcasts. Shove that 698 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 3: up your ass. Let me do that one, but last part, 699 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 3: I'll did the whole thing. On the latest Mattenjery podcasts, 700 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 3: we ask for your four pillars of getting females to 701 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 3: the party, and we pay tribute to Sean Johnson who's 702 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 3: retiring from the NRL. Plus, we talked to Chuck Inwood 703 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 3: Inzied police legend, who's also got a mint Mo. The 704 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 3: metten Jury Podcast. Two new pods out every weekday at 705 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 3: eleven am on iHeart Radio or where ever you find 706 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: your podcasts. Hey, tell a friend, do. 707 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 4: You know what? I'll probably take the first take and 708 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 4: then cut to the tell friend because the first take 709 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 4: was better, but the teller friends. 710 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 3: Look, I'm not going to get about it, mate. 711 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 4: One one other point before we go, oh yeah, sorry, Matt, 712 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 4: Matt will hate this, isn't it I've got to get 713 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 4: rid of this congestion. Isn't it interesting? Interesting? Chuck Henwood, 714 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 4: that beautiful mustache, very Peter Plumley Walker. 715 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 2: It is very Peter plummy Walker. 716 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 5: Oh. 717 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 4: It is one of the most infamous police and crime 718 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 4: cases in New Zealand history. 719 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 3: I don't want to raise one of the biggest questions 720 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 3: of the podcast or the podcast. Have we seen Peter 721 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,919 Speaker 3: Plumley Walker and Chucking Wood in the same room. 722 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 4: I know I haven't. 723 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 3: I hope cho Kingwood don't listen back to this podcast. 724 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 6: You'll be disgusted. 725 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 3: Choke Hinward, Chuckinwood, You're a greatly choke. That's what you've done. Okay, 726 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 3: we're gonna let this bespoke. I hope you enjoyed that. 727 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Matt Heath. 728 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: You have been listening to the Matt and Jerry Daily 729 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: Bespoke podcast. Right now you can listen to our Radio 730 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: Highlights podcast, which you will absolutely get. 731 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: Barred up about anyway. 732 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: Set to download, like, subscribe, writer, review all those great things. 733 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: It really helps myself and Jerry and to a lesser extent, 734 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,919 Speaker 1: mess and Ruder. If you want to discuss anything raised 735 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: in this pod, check out the Conclave, a Matt and 736 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: Jerry Facebook discussion group. And while I'm plugging stuff, my 737 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: book A Life is Punishing Thirteen Ways to Love the 738 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: life You've got is out. 739 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: Now get it. 740 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: Wherever you get your books, or just google the bastard. 741 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: Anyway you seem busy, I'll let you go. 742 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: Bless blessed, blessed. Give them a taste of key we 743 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 2: from me.