1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: Now the group that held the key we hostage Philip 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Mersons in West Papoor says that a bribe was paid 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: to secure his release. Now they say that a local 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: politician paid the bribe. Foreign Minister Winston Peters this morning 5 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: was outraged at the suggestion the people involved at all, 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: and I'd like to see the evidence before you run 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: it and impune the lames of good New Zealanders. Catherine 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: Della hunt He is a spokesperson for the West Papua 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Action networking with US. Now, Hey, Catherine Suna, what do 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: you know about this bribe? 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: I think that the Minister of Foreign Affairs needs to 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: realize that nobody has implied or fought that New Zealand 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: bribed anybody to get Philip Murtons free. I don't think 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: that is what the story was about. I think if 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 2: a bribe happened, it happened between local people within the 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: area of West Papoa where Philip Mertons had been held 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: by the liberation army. It there's nothing to do. No 18 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 2: one was implying that New Zealand would ever do that, 19 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: so I'm not quite sure why he's got so hot 20 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: on the collar about it. The real issue is thank 21 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: goodness that Philip Mustons is safe, but also that many 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: people who live in West Papua around that area are 23 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: not safe, and that there were bombings up to three 24 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: days before he was rescued in the area where he was. 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: So it's a very dangerous area because the Indonesians occupy 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: that country against the consent of the communities. So yeah, 27 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: I just wish the foreign if it doesn't need to worry. 28 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: No one's implying that this country somehow bought it's brought 29 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: the freedom for Philip Mutons. 30 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, why would a local politician over their pay 31 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: a bribe? What's in it for them? 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: It's much more complex than that. If it happened. So 33 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: one of the liberation army people has said that it 34 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: happened against their wishes. They didn't want a bribe. But 35 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: there's a lot of politics and a lot of local 36 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: dynamics that we don't really understand here. There's enormous pressure 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: in that area. Most people are in a very difficult 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: position because of the Indonesians bombing their villages. Eighty thousand 39 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: people have been displaced. As you can imagine, there's also 40 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: a very different culture over there around what you do 41 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 2: to support your relative if you're related. There's a whole 42 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 2: lot of issues which we don't necessarily understand. And maybe 43 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: this happened and maybe it didn't, but from our point 44 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: of view, that's not what matters. What matters is that 45 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: a delicate, nineteen months negotiation resulted in Philip Weston's being 46 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: safety returned to his family, and that's what matters. But 47 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 2: also what matters is what the people at West Papa 48 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: are going through. And that's much bigger than some story 49 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 2: about a local politician who may or may not have 50 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: done this. 51 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: Catherine, is it possible that the guy, the local politician 52 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: who paid the bribe to allegedly allegedly paid the bribe 53 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: to get the pilot free may have done it for 54 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: some reputational enhancement for himself, like his reputation would be 55 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: better off if this guy got out. 56 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 2: It's hard to know. I mean this, there's quite a 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: few forces at play here. So the Liberation Army had 58 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: a plan for Philip's rescue that didn't involve anybody bribing anybody, 59 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: and they were wanting to hold a press conference that 60 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 2: that with Philip at the end of his of his 61 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: of his imprisonment with them basically, and that didn't happen. Instead, 62 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: one of the stories is that this man's handed he 63 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: went to met with with with the army who handed 64 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 2: over Philip and then he handed him over to the Indonesians, 65 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: which is not what the liberation underwanted. But whether there 66 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: was any any money or anything else changing hands, or 67 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: what the motivations are. I think we're out of our 68 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: league here. We don't really understand the situation on the ground. 69 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: Okay, do you know anything about the situation that he 70 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: finds himself in. 71 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: Is he well, I'll Philip well, yes? Or all till 72 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: all all media commentary and all the interviews that they've 73 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: done with him before he managed to get to Jakarta 74 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: and be reunited with his family, is that he's actually 75 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: pretty well. And if you look at him, I know 76 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: that he went through a period of time when he 77 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: had bad asthma, but actually he said he recovered. And 78 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: I know that it was pretty tough for him because 79 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: the conditions in the Highlands are pretty tough, and they 80 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: were on the run a lot of time, and it 81 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: was tough for all of them. And it was also 82 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 2: very tough for the people being bombed because Indonesian's increased 83 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: military involvement in the area by many, many thousands. So 84 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,239 Speaker 2: I think he actually obviously managed to survive pretty well, 85 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: and I think he just needs to be left alone 86 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: to recover now because it's been a huge process. And 87 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: what we're hoping is that we can now talk to 88 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: our government about our role in standing up for justice 89 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: and human rights and freedom for West papoints now that 90 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 2: the situation with our citizen has been resolved. 91 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, Catherine, listen, thank you very much. I really appreciate 92 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: your insight there. That is Catherine Della Hunty, the spokesperson 93 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: for the West Papoor Action Network. 94 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: Hither. 95 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: I don't know why this is a story bribe or not. 96 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: Nobody cares. He's free and that's all that matters. Well, 97 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: to some extent, you're right, but you're also wrong. So 98 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: if this was so so when it first broke, it 99 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: sounded like it was ransom, right, like we'd paid ransom 100 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: or somebody paid ransom, which is why when he lost 101 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: his mind on the radio about it, because we do 102 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: not pay ransoms as a country, and if you do 103 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: pay ransoms, if there's even a sniff that we pay 104 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: a ransom, The implications of that then are that others 105 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: who they don't take Kiwi's hostage because I ain't gonna 106 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: get any money out of it, right because we're like, nah, 107 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: too poor, we don't pay ransoms. But if people start 108 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: to think that we pay ransoms, then it kind of 109 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: incentivizes them to take Kiwi's hostage at the thought that 110 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: they may be able to get some money out. That's 111 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: why Winston was so angry about that. But now if 112 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: it's just a bribe, well now you wonder, well, why 113 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: did the bribe get paikers? Now you just have to 114 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: be absolutely sure that the bribe wasn't paid for us 115 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: to then reimburse later on. Do you know what I mean? 116 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: But I don't know. It just sounds to me like 117 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: it's some dudes just handing cash over to each other. 118 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive, Listen live to 119 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: news Talk sai'd Be from four pm weekdays, or follow 120 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.