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Speaker 1: Now to make things spicy within the government active float

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Speaker 1: to this idea or pulling out of Paris as well,

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Speaker 1: David Seymour suggesting it might be party policy going into

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Speaker 1: next year's election. The former Climate Minister Nick Smith is

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Speaker 1: with us next morning.

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Speaker 2: To you are your good morning, Mike.

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Speaker 1: Given Trump has the game changed on the environment or not?

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Speaker 2: Well? The danger in American politics is the whole issue

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Speaker 2: of climate change there is just so polarized. So when

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Speaker 2: it came to Kyoto, the Democrats and then the Republicans

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Speaker 2: pulled them out and we've had exactly the same thing

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Speaker 2: now playing out with Paris. My hope for New Zealand

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Speaker 2: is that we can be a bit more moderate and

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Speaker 2: consistent in There are countries lakes of the UK and

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Speaker 2: in Germany where there's been a more consistent and less

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Speaker 2: polarized position. The problem with an issue like climate change

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Speaker 2: is that if your government policy is flip flopping all

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Speaker 2: the time, you're not going to make any progress. And

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Speaker 2: it is one of those long term issues. I'm in

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Speaker 2: that headspace that says New Zealand does need to do

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Speaker 2: its fair share. You'll have the Green Party wanted us

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Speaker 2: to be world leaders without being realistic about the packed

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Speaker 2: on jobs and the cost of living. You'll have the

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Speaker 2: Party saying hey, let's be free loaders and do nothing.

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Speaker 2: On one of those moderates, it says that New Zealand

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Speaker 2: should do it's fair share, and it would be a

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Speaker 2: big mistake for New Zealand to pull out of Paris.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that Mike fair share to achieve what though, Nick,

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Speaker 1: if America is not in and Brazil still polluting, and

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Speaker 1: India is still polluting, and China's still polluting, to achieve

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Speaker 1: what well.

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Speaker 2: I don't accept the world is. Remember there are only

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Speaker 2: out of one hundred and ninety seven countries, you've got

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Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety three that are in Paris. But

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Speaker 2: even if you put an economic leans over at Mike,

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Speaker 2: you know, the European Union is our fourth biggest trading

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Speaker 2: partner twenty billion dollars a year. That free trade agreement

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Speaker 2: specifically mentioned as climate change. I think in the Trump era,

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Speaker 2: trade with the United States is going to be more

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Speaker 2: bumpy and more uncertain. And you've got both China and

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Speaker 2: Australia as part of the Paris Agreement. So I actually

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Speaker 2: think even from an economic lens, it would be a

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Speaker 2: big mistake or New Zealand to unilaterally pull out of Paris.

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Speaker 2: I do think in that determination about what is New

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Speaker 2: Zealand's fear share in terms of constraining our missions, then

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Speaker 2: you do need to look at your key trading partners

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Speaker 2: and seeing how much progress they are making. It would

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Speaker 2: be a game changer if Australia changed its position. I

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Speaker 2: don't see any sign of that, either from the Liberal

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Speaker 2: opposition or the Labor government in Australia. Here's the other

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Speaker 2: interesting piece night, and that is actually if you look

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Speaker 2: at the big investments in the technology that is going

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Speaker 2: to enable us to get emissions down, whether it be

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Speaker 2: solar panels or whether it be electric vehicles, actually China

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Speaker 2: has made huge progress. I suspect the cost of those

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Speaker 2: is likely to come down with the tariffs that are

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Speaker 2: being imposed today on the US, such that there will

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Speaker 2: be opportunity. We just need to be realistic that there

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Speaker 2: is an economic cost to climate change policy, be upfront

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Speaker 2: with New Zealanders about that. And that's where I come

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Speaker 2: back to. I'm hoping the government will hold the line

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Speaker 2: and have New Zealand doing its fair.

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Speaker 1: Shared all right. Another thing to ask the Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: for about shortly appreciate it. Next Smith, former climate change

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Speaker 1: minister now Mayor of Nelson, of course. For more from

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