1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: With us right now as Nichola willis the Finance Minister 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Hei Nikoler hither how much is in New Zealand charging 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: us for this rescue plane? 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. I haven't been advised of that number. 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Have they not told anybody in the government yet, or 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: has there been no deal struck? 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: I just haven't been advised of that number yet. Heither 8 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: I've been in back to back meetings today. But I'm 9 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: sure that that is a number that will be available 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 2: for public scrutiny. 11 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Is that a pledge to make it public? 12 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: Oh? Look, as long as it's not commercially sensitive. So 13 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 2: in New Zealand, no doubt we'll have arrangements in place. 14 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: But my expectation would be that we can share more 15 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: information about that in the centre and. 16 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Look forward to it. Hey, what are we going to 17 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: do about the Defense Force planes? We're going to have 18 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: to buy a couple of new ones, aren't we. 19 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 2: Well, we've got a defense capability review underway, so we're 20 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: looking at what is the kIPS that the Defense Force 21 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: require for the future so that it can do the 22 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: things we expect it to do. And of course that 23 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: does include being able to quickly get to places in 24 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: the Pacific, around the world, so that we can help 25 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: out after disasters, so that we can transport our soldiers 26 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: around the world. And so that's likely to include a 27 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 2: plane capability, and it may be that as a result 28 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: of that review they recommend replacement planes. 29 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: How long does that review take. 30 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: It's underway at the moment, and our intention is that 31 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: it's completed ahead of our budget next year, so that 32 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: our budget can reflect the investment decisions that Defense are 33 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: advising us they want to make over the coming decade. 34 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: Any idea what it costs to buy a plane to 35 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: replace the ones we've got oka. 36 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: I think a lot of those questions like how long 37 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: is a piece of string, because obviously planes can come 38 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: at different costs depending on whether they're news you can hand, 39 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: how big they are, what capability they have. So what 40 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: we'd need to consider is what's a plane that can 41 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: do all of the functions that the Defense Force needs 42 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: to do but in a way that we can afford 43 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: to maintain and that works with all of our other kits. 44 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: That that number will be no doubt one of the 45 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: things that Defense Force that are considering as part of 46 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: their capability. 47 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: So if we were to get this review done by 48 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: budget next year, and then budget was to include new planes. 49 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: We're still, you know, given how long it takes to 50 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: get these things, we're still maybe two or three years, 51 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: maybe even more away from actually having the planes. In 52 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: the meantime, what do we do? I mean, does the 53 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: Prime Minister need to fly commercially because he can't keep 54 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: doing this? 55 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I think that he needs to consider for 56 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: every visit he goes on, what's the way is to 57 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: do it that is the most reliable. And obviously, if 58 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: we can't be assured that the planes are going to 59 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: be able to get up in the year, that sometimes 60 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: he's going to be flying commercial to the people who 61 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: is flying with. 62 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, does the Defense Force sometimes say, look, it's a 63 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: little bit dodgy at the moment, or you know, other 64 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: times now she's looking good. Do they actually have a 65 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: sense of whether it's going to work well? 66 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: Look, I think that they go to her extensive efforts 67 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: to make sure that their planes are safe and that 68 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: they're ready for the Prime Minister. But obviously in this 69 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 2: case they've found an issue that they've said no, it's 70 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 2: not safe to fly, and they've made that decision. And 71 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: I'd rather they made that decision that put a plane 72 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: up in the air that wasn't safe. But we do 73 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: obviously need to look in the future into how we 74 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: make sure that when the pen is flying around, but 75 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 2: it's reliable. 76 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: Hey, I see you're considering performance pay for public sector CEOs. 77 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: How much are you thinking? 78 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: Well, I'm still taking advice on that, But what I 79 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: want to see is a culture of performance and accountability 80 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: in the public service. And just as anyone working in 81 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,119 Speaker 2: a business actually feel the results of their efforts, we 82 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: want public agencies and their leaders to feel responsible not 83 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: just for turning up, but's actually getting a result. And 84 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: so we've set those public service targets. You'll be aware 85 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 2: where said will be measuring performance against them every three 86 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: months and making that public. Well, we'd quite like it 87 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: as chief executives feel personal accountability for delivering against both targets, 88 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: and we think performance pay is another way to create 89 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: that culture. 90 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: So, I mean, it'll be easy enough to set the 91 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: targets for somebody who's running let's say the Ministry of Education. 92 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: Obviously how many kids are graduating, passing, what have and 93 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: health will be really easy and so on. But how 94 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: on earth do you set a target for somebody running 95 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: the Ministry of Women. 96 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: Well, obviously what the performance will be judged on will 97 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: vary from agency to agency, but it might be about 98 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: how they're contributing to another target that the government has 99 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: in place. And actually, every single person employed by the 100 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: government and a public role with responsibility has accountability, so 101 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: we should be able to measure their performance against those accountabilities. 102 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: And we all know there's some people who do a 103 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: great job to go above and beyond their job description, 104 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: and there's others who don't. And I think that it's 105 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: good to reward those who perform really well, have prepared 106 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: to be innovative, to do things differently, to really challenge 107 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: their teams. Those are the kinds of go getters I 108 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: want in the public service. So let's make sure that 109 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: we actually we have structures that are modern pay structures 110 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: that reflect that reality. The private sector do it for 111 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: a reason because it gets results. 112 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: Do you think Fitch is going to downgrade us? 113 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I think that they can 114 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: continue to see that New Zealand has a position which 115 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: is going to make us a good place to invest 116 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 2: in and then too into the future. 117 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: The one thing that worried me. And what they said 118 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: is that our best years are behind us. For now. 119 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: We had a decade of growth and now we're not 120 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: going to have a decade of growth. 121 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: Does that worry you, Well, I think our best years 122 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: are in front of us. But I think that if 123 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: we are complacent, then we could be in for a 124 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: continuation of what. Let's face it has been a pretty 125 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: troubling period economically because what we have. 126 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: But what that point to is the fact that China 127 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: fueled our growth for such a long time. And now 128 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: China's not buying as much of our stuff right because 129 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: they're not growing as fast. So what do we replace 130 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: China with? 131 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think if you talk to individual business owners 132 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: and sectors across the country, they will tell you that 133 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: they see growth, opportunity and new markets not just China, 134 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 2: but also they'll tell you there are cities upon cities, 135 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 2: town upon town that they're still not selling to in China. 136 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: They'll tell you about how they're looking to make their 137 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: processes more efficient, but I get gamards on the products 138 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: that they create that they look at to produce more 139 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 2: of their products using modern systems. I'm actually hitting enough 140 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: people working in their organization. I guess my point is 141 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: this the idea about what the next big growth thing is, 142 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: in my experience very rarely actually comes from a politician 143 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: or government agency. That comes from entrepreneurs and businesses being 144 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: able to get on with what they do best, and 145 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: so as a government we're trying to create foundations on 146 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: which they can do that, to get the barriers out 147 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 2: of the way and let them go for it. 148 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: Hey, is Winston warming up to the idea of letting 149 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: the foreigners come in and buy houses here? 150 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 2: Well, you'd have to ask onestion about that. 151 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: But you've had the do you know how hard it is? 152 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: You've had the conversations with them? Can't you tell us? 153 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: Well, obviously we've got a coalition agreement that I respect 154 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: which maternational agreed not to progress our policy to reverse 155 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: the foreign biban and impose a charge on foreign FIBs. 156 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: Every party in the coalition has the ability to revisit 157 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: any aspect of our agreements if they believe it's in 158 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: the best interests of New Zealand. So that is ultimately 159 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: a question for Winston Peter's in New Zealand. First, is 160 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: a government minister I adhere to the government policy which 161 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: is as this out. 162 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: I reckon that sounds hopeful, So I'm going to take 163 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: some hope from that. Nikola, do you reckon we need 164 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: to look into these allegations that were made last week 165 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: about Chinese interference in our democracy? 166 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: Well, I'm confident that government agencies all foreign interpearance seriously 167 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: and that zan has in place system that I'm sure 168 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: we react to that appropriately. 169 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: Was Yan yang Aspy. 170 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: Not that I'm aware of. 171 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: Thank you. That was a tough question, Nicola. Thank you. 172 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Nicola Willis Finance Minister. Then again, then again, 173 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: would Nichola have known? So I my mind remains open 174 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: for more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to 175 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: news talks it'd b from four pm weekdays, or follow 176 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.